THE ESSENDON 34: ON TRIAL

[beelzebub 23,376]

i suspect that if the tribunal give 12 months that wada will accept that....albeit grudgingly

especially if the afl hit the club instigators hard

I just cant see 12 mnths ... It doesnt reconcile with any of the published guidelines to penalties etc. But arguably we're talking what WADA would give, so what the Tribunal choose can of course vary.

All the whiles with such I think that its nearly always been brushed aside that we're discussing a multiple breach not an isolated occurrence . Penalties are quite severe for a once off let alone that which the club/players perpetrated . I cant see how WADA will consider 12 mnths nearly sufficient for such a systemic affair. This is a test case , a precedent setter and not just for AFL , nor Australia but for world sport. What will be the message to all of the team based comps worldwide if these players get not much more than a smack on the bum !!.

AFL might give 12 mnths...WADA will get that doubled ( at least ) ... just my thoughts of course.

[dpositive 1,665]

http://ondemand.rrr.org.au/player/128/201503010000 Go to the 13 minute mark of this radio broadcast interview with Stevie Dank... Has anyone Hird this? I've had one listen, but I'll be revisiting again and again. Extraodinary.

This is an amazing listen

Danks does think hes the smartest guy in the profession

pushing the boundaries, advancing the science, etc, and there is no doubt he has got plenty of knowledge

BUT

wanting to keep the integrity of his intellectual property but not keeping records of that property seems a tad bizarre.

His relationship with Dean is almost sycophantic and its interesting that there is a relationship while Dean was at Geelong with Bomber, that may be a link that ASADA with its forensic powers had identified.

[beelzebub 23,376]

This is an amazing listen

Danks does think hes the smartest guy in the profession

pushing the boundaries, advancing the science, etc, and there is no doubt he has got plenty of knowledge

BUT

wanting to keep the integrity of his intellectual property but not keeping records of that property seems a tad bizarre.

His relationship with Dean is almost sycophantic and its interesting that there is a relationship while Dean was at Geelong with Bomber, that may be a link that ASADA with its forensic powers had identified.

not familiar with the interviewer...who is this nong ?

edit:

Danks is like some imposter Boxer that gets into a ring...dances around, feigning punches but making sure he gets no where near the opponent in case they land a real hit !!

Edited March 4, 2015 by beelzebub

[jnrmac 20,065]

I personally highly doubt that these players have stayed loyal to the club during interviews, obviously confidentiality clauses in their contracts prevent them from saying much to the media but in an interview with ASADA if you were concerned your club had injected you with something dangerous it would be pretty easy to spill your guts and tell them everything.

If they had nothing to hide they would have told them everything.....

[Giles 181]

not familiar with the interviewer...who is this nong ?

edit:

Danks is like some imposter Boxer that gets into a ring...dances around, feigning punches but making sure he gets no where near the opponent in case they land a real hit !!

It's Community Radio and the show is called The Party Show. It's a lighted hearted program on Sat night between 12am-2am. I'm astonished that Dank appeared on it. It was live radio. It sounded like he would talk for hours.

It also amazes me that he says Essendon kept meticulous records and the governance was of a high level. Something's not right. http://ondemand.rrr....28/201503010000

[beelzebub 23,376]

It's Community Radio and the show is called The Party Show. It's a lighted hearted program on Sat night between 12am-2am. I'm astonished that Dank appeared on it. It was live radio. It sounded like he would talk for hours.

It also amazes me that he says Essendon kept meticulous records and the governance was of a high level. Something's not right. http://ondemand.rrr....28/201503010000

I think any reasonable observer understands there had to be records ,and that everyone knew exactly what was going on ( and in ). It just doesnt serve the EFC to present these, they'd be incriminating....so the dog ate them

[ManDee 7,148]

It's Community Radio and the show is called The Party Show. It's a lighted hearted program on Sat night between 12am-2am. I'm astonished that Dank appeared on it. It was live radio. It sounded like he would talk for hours.

It also amazes me that he says Essendon kept meticulous records and the governance was of a high level. Something's not right. http://ondemand.rrr....28/201503010000

Don't be surprised, of course they kept meticulous records, this was cutting edge stuff. It would surprise me if they didn't have a placebo group as well. This was true experimentation using human guinea pigs. The lack of records is a real issue, for the players future health, work care and future litigation. Also I wouldn't be surprised if at some point they find some of those records.

Edit: Spell error

Edited March 4, 2015 by ManDee

[FireOath 290]

Where are we at with this at the moment? Are we waiting on Essendon or Asada?

[beelzebub 23,376]

Where are we at with this at the moment? Are we waiting on Essendon or Asada?

neither...waiting on the AFL tribunal to hand down its decision

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Where are we at with this at the moment? Are we waiting on Essendon or Asada?

The AFL tribunal.

[Its Time for Another 4,218]

Use or attempted use = Guilty

Not knowing that you have taken or attempted to take an illegal substance = Guilty

It has to be that way to stop rorts.

Begrudgingly agree with this in terms of it being necessary to protect clean sports but stop and think of the individual athlete. Let's remove it from this EFC saga for a minute and say an individual athlete who has the flu and as required goes to his Doctor and says I want to take this flu tablet is it ok. The Doctor makes a mistake and says yes to a flu tablet that has some substance in it that is banned. Bad luck, there goes the best two years of your career while you are at your peak. Come on, you've got to have sympathy for the poor athlete. What else could they possibly do. Everytime they get the flu are they supposed to ring ASADA with a new medication. I can guarantee you with the limited resources ASADA has it wouldn't be able to field calls all day long from every sportsman in Australia subject to their code who has these sorts of questions.

I wonder if they buy the medicine take it home and are about to take it and their Doc rings and says I've just found out that it is banned don't take it. Does that amount to "attempted".

On the other hand if its not strict liability it opens the door to unscrupulous sports regimes. Hird doesn't seem to understand any of this when he cries that the Essendon players have less rights than any normal citzen. Of course they don't Jimmy Boy, for the reasons above. Don't you get that you are now the Poster Boy for the reasons why it can't be fair.

[biggestred 5,088]

Begrudgingly agree with this in terms of it being necessary to protect clean sports but stop and think of the individual athlete. Let's remove it from this EFC saga for a minute and say an individual athlete who has the flu and as required goes to his Doctor and says I want to take this flu tablet is it ok. The Doctor makes a mistake and says yes to a flu tablet that has some substance in it that is banned. Bad luck, there goes the best two years of your career while you are at your peak. Come on, you've got to have sympathy for the poor athlete. What else could they possibly do. Everytime they get the flu are they supposed to ring ASADA with a new medication. I can guarantee you with the limited resources ASADA has it wouldn't be able to field calls all day long from every sportsman in Australia subject to their code who has these sorts of questions.

I wonder if they buy the medicine take it home and are about to take it and their Doc rings and says I've just found out that it is banned don't take it. Does that amount to "attempted".

On the other hand if its not strict liability it opens the door to unscrupulous sports regimes. Hird doesn't seem to understand any of this when he cries that the Essendon players have less rights than any normal citzen. Of course they don't Jimmy Boy, for the reasons above. Don't you get that you are now the Poster Boy for the reasons why it can't be fair.

YES THEY ARE.

you can literally put the drug into the website and it will tell you if you can or cannot take it.

[biggestred 5,088]

https://checksubstances.asada.gov.au/

very very simple.

try it - it even gives you a receipt number for your query.

took me 30 seconds to put ventolin through and see if its ok.

[beelzebub 23,376]

YES THEY ARE.

you can literally put the drug into the website and it will tell you if you can or cannot take it.

hard isnt it

[dworship 3,342]

Don't be surprised, of course they kept meticulous records, this was cutting edge stuff. It would surprise me if they didn't have a placebo group as well. This was true experimentation using human guinea pigs. The lack of records is a real issue, for the players future health, work care and future litigation. Also I wouldn't be surprised if at some point they find some of those records.

Edit: Spell error

Perhaps the 8 not charged? Somehow they found the evidence for these players?

[beelzebub 23,376]

Perhaps the 8 not charged? Somehow they found the evidence for these players?

the 8 not charged didnt participate. Didnt sign the 'waiver"

[ManDee 7,148]

Begrudgingly agree with this in terms of it being necessary to protect clean sports but stop and think of the individual athlete. Let's remove it from this EFC saga for a minute and say an individual athlete who has the flu and as required goes to his Doctor and says I want to take this flu tablet is it ok. The Doctor makes a mistake and says yes to a flu tablet that has some substance in it that is banned. Bad luck, there goes the best two years of your career while you are at your peak. Come on, you've got to have sympathy for the poor athlete. What else could they possibly do. Everytime they get the flu are they supposed to ring ASADA with a new medication. I can guarantee you with the limited resources ASADA has it wouldn't be able to field calls all day long from every sportsman in Australia subject to their code who has these sorts of questions.

I wonder if they buy the medicine take it home and are about to take it and their Doc rings and says I've just found out that it is banned don't take it. Does that amount to "attempted".

On the other hand if its not strict liability it opens the door to unscrupulous sports regimes. Hird doesn't seem to understand any of this when he cries that the Essendon players have less rights than any normal citzen. Of course they don't Jimmy Boy, for the reasons above. Don't you get that you are now the Poster Boy for the reasons why it can't be fair.

IT agreement whether begrudging or otherwise is welcome.

It takes less than one minute to find if a drug is banned.

https://checksubstances.asada.gov.au/

ASADA site -

Substances-

Sport-

Gender-

Role-

Thymosin Beta 4 X

PROHIBITED RESULTS

Athletes may at times need to use a prohibited medication to treat a legitimate medical condition. A Therapeutic Use Exemption (TUE) is an exemption that allows an athlete to use, for therapeutic use only, an otherwise prohibited substance or method (of administering a substance) which may be present during competition.

Visit www.asdmac.gov.au to determine your eligibility and correct TUE process for you.

Edited March 4, 2015 by ManDee

[dpositive 1,665]

Don't be surprised, of course they kept meticulous records, this was cutting edge stuff. It would surprise me if they didn't have a placebo group as well. This was true experimentation using human guinea pigs. The lack of records is a real issue, for the players future health, work care and future litigation. Also I wouldn't be surprised if at some point they find some of those records.

Edit: Spell error

You could have identified another matter.

A placebo group. Why didnt I think of that

Heres the comprehensive records of players who have now all retired (or gone to another club) they took the drugs to which you allude and appear to be (unfortunately) not approved due to our administrative errors for which we have been roundly condemned and chastised by the AFL

These are the records of our currently listed playing group who were all given a placebo to ensure the veracity of our rigorous scientific test.

Oh MY God

[ManDee 7,148]

the 8 not charged didnt participate. Didnt sign the 'waiver"

Beeb that is also my belief, but did they participate and not sign the waiver or partially participate?

[sue 9,106]

You could have identified another matter.

A placebo group. Why didnt I think of that

Heres the comprehensive records of players who have now all retired (or gone to another club) they took the drugs to which you allude and appear to be (unfortunately) not approved due to our administrative errors for which we have been roundly condemned and chastised by the AFL

These are the records of our currently listed playing group who were all given a placebo to ensure the veracity of our rigorous scientific test.

Oh MY God

I was going to post something similar, but then I thought, crikey, no need to give Hird ideas.

[beelzebub 23,376]

Beeb that is also my belief, but did they participate and not sign the waiver or partially participate?

its a good question... only they would know I suspect. They will have been interviewed most likely...but to what avail ??

[beelzebub 23,376]

I was going to post something similar, but then I thought, crikey, no need to give Hird ideas.

I wonder if Dr Moreau used placebos ?

[deanox 9,920]

Begrudgingly agree with this in terms of it being necessary to protect clean sports but stop and think of the individual athlete. Let's remove it from this EFC saga for a minute and say an individual athlete who has the flu and as required goes to his Doctor and says I want to take this flu tablet is it ok. The Doctor makes a mistake and says yes to a flu tablet that has some substance in it that is banned. Bad luck, there goes the best two years of your career while you are at your peak. Come on, you've got to have sympathy for the poor athlete.

1. Yes you feel empathy towards the athlete.

2. Yes this has happened, a lot of times.

3. This wasn't a smoke mistake by a unfamiliar with the WADA code this was a months long multiple substance injection regime run differently to normal supplements programs (off site etc).

4. Sympathy doesn't mean leniency.

[Sir Why You Little 37,036]

From the other side 9a EFC fan who loves James), something to unite us:

'It still puzzles many Essendon fans as to why Hird was aggressively targeted and nominated as the architect. In today's complex management structures, Hird was on the periphery of the supplements program.'

'AAnd yet people still refuse to acknowledge simple facts such as his contrition about the supplements saga. Many claim Hird remains unrepentant, but he has apologised on three separate occasions to the AFL Commission, to Essendon fans through the club website, and to the general public..'

read here: http://www.theage.com.au/comment/james-hirds-essendon-story-has-yet-to-be-told-20150303-13sa71.html

"Get me the good stuff we are playing Carlton this week..."

I have been privy to see the Text Messages between Dank & The Golden Turd.

He was so far from the periphery of this matter

Front & Center was where James had his chair..

Makes a complete joke of that Age article..

Essendon have a shiteload of representation in the media don't they...

[biggestred 5,088]

http://m.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/texts-are-latest-twist-in-essendon-drugs-crisis-20130411-2hoou.html

Dank was obviously REPORTING to hirdy.

Periphery my arse.