AFL National Draft 2014 Picks 2 & 3

[Slartibartfast 16,050]

Oil would you trade out Nathan Jones for pick 3 now? He's only got 6 years or so left? Oh, and if you're happy to trade Frawley for 3 because we've got Dunn, Frost and McDonald I think you're placing too much faith in Dunn particularly and still punting Frost.

When will you trade out Tommy Mac.

Is Hogan gone when he's only got 6 years left?

These questions are rhetorical. But you get my drift. At some point you've actually got to put a team on the field that can win and I reckon, without pick 3, we've got the makings of that and we're better with Frawley.

Edited November 13, 2014 by Baghdad Bob

[Ted Lasso 17,200]

After speaking to the same mate who told me Brayshaw was being seriously considered by the Saints i was told the following

MFC rank Brayshaw ahead of Petracca

MFC rank Heeney ahead of both

Roos is a massive fan of Lever which was part of the motivation behind the Trengove potential trade.

The Saints rank Petracca and Brayshaw ahead of McCartin but they do still rate mcCartin and understand the value of he and Spencer White potentially playing alongside Roo while he is still at the club.

even if Petracca doesn't go pick 1, he is no certainty to go pick 3.

[nutbean 8,837]

I have hijacked the thread - I gracefully retire from this thread.

[Guest]

After speaking to the same mate who told me Brayshaw was being seriously considered by the Saints i was told the following

MFC rank Brayshaw ahead of Petracca

MFC rank Heeney ahead of both

Roos is a massive fan of Lever which was part of the motivation behind the Trengove potential trade.

The Saints rank Petracca and Brayshaw ahead of McCartin but they do still rate mcCartin and understand the value of he and Spencer White potentially playing alongside Roo while he is still at the club.

even if Petracca doesn't go pick 1, he is no certainty to go pick 3.

There would be an absolute meltdown if we passed up on Petracca.

[Jesse Christ 2,884]

There would be an absolute meltdown if we passed up on Petracca.

Why? Apart from his explosiveness what does he bring? Sylvia MKII is a chance. Didn't he break down doing the 3km at the combine? Seems a very speculative pick when compared to someone with a more rounded game like Brayshaw for example.

[IvanBartul13 2,564]

Excellent discussion.

Oil just one quick point. Hawthorn didn't pay nothing for Frawley, they paid a slice of their salary cap. The management of their salary cap will determine how they go overall because the opportunity cost is another very good player.

I support the system that say we get something if a player leaves. Pick 3 is excellent compensation. In the long term we may win or we may lose but certainly in the short term we lose.

Oil you and Axis are blue sky junkies when it comes to footy. I was too for a long time. I think clubs are as well to a large extent and I believe that they rate picks much higher than they should. Roos has led the way by valuing picks correctly, firstly at Sydney where he seemed to pay overs all the time only for people to say "what a great get". He did it with Salem/Tyson last year and now it's talked about more often.

Hawthorn took Frawley because they want to perform now, they want flags. Many here are happy with pick 3 because we are building, they want to gamble on the chance of picking up a very good player.

MFC is a terrible football team at the moment. We have a bunch of young kids of varying talent running round but basically getting flogged when the good teams play well. The only way we will get better is to start having people on the park who can compete. Frawley could and had 6 or 7 years left of highly competitive AFL footy. He would help Salem, Toumpas etc etc be in a more competitive team.

We have been down the youth path in the last 7 years and failed completely. IMO it's because the balance of youth/experience was completely wrong. It led to the premature delisting of many senior players. Frawley's loss is a continuation of that. It takes 100+ games of experience and one of the AFL's best one on one backs out of our team and sticks in an 18yo of unproven blue sky.

IMO we've got enough talent on our list to develop into a good team in years to come. Frawley's loss is significant.

My initial point was people think we "killed" it with the compensation we got. We didn't. I think we lost, you think we won or at least could get out of it. What I do know is it is a significant moot point and we certainly didn't "Kill" it.

Agreed Frawley consumes the cap room and agree it could hinder them. Not relevant really but I would have had an issue if we traded 2 and 3 and spent 1 million a year on Dangerfield or another player because you are paying heavily from both ways you can improve your team (capspace and draft).

Like the blue sky junkie reference. I happily concede that I think the only way we can win a premiership is by getting in great draft talent. I think giving up that ideology leads to a forlorn existence.

You mention we lose Frawley's 100+games of stellar defensive play. Can't argue. But the reality is in theory we are swapping 100 of Frawley at full back for Lynden Dunn's 100 games and, if I were in charge, a very talented key forward who take a lot of pressure of Hogan and may give us some serious weaponry up forward.

Don't forget Tyson was picked up primarily off the back of his TAC play and not off what he'd done for GWS and that trade is an excellent example of a good decision made by the footy club. That's the blue sky! If they make continuous good decisions success will follow.

Edited November 14, 2014 by goodoil

[Ted Lasso 17,200]

There would be an absolute meltdown if we passed up on Petracca.

Agree, but Roos feels we have too many " flankers " he wants pure midfielders or to fill key posts, apparently doesn't feel Petracca is a pure midfielder in the way Heeney and Brayshaw are.

[What 18,810]

Agree, but Roos feels we have too many " flankers " he wants pure midfielders or to fill key posts, apparently doesn't feel Petracca is a pure midfielder in the way Heeney and Brayshaw are.

luckily Heeney isnt available

Petracca and Brayshaw it is then

[Ted Lasso 17,200]

luckily Heeney isnt available

Petracca and Brayshaw it is then

Not Luckily, Heeney is an absolute gun and i am certain he would be pick 1 or 2 if he was fair game.

[IvanBartul13 2,564]

Oil would you trade out Nathan Jones for pick 3 now? He's only got 6 years or so left? Oh, and if you're happy to trade Frawley for 3 because we've got Dunn, Frost and McDonald I think you're placing too much faith in Dunn particularly and still punting Frost.

When will you trade out Tommy Mac.

Is Hogan gone when he's only got 6 years left?

These questions are rhetorical. But you get my drift. At some point you've actually got to put a team on the field that can win and I reckon, without pick 3, we've got the makings of that and we're better with Frawley.

I think your taking some liberties with what I've said. I'm not saying Frawley is gone or that players should absolutely be traded with six years left. I'm just saying that the mathematical likelihood is that we're better off with Pick 3 for Frawley as opposed to keeping him and when you factor in our defensive options in his absence the case is bolstered. And I like who we most likely will get with Pick 3.

If Jesse Hogan is as advertised, a lynchpin key position forward, I would never trade him, even with six year's left. I'm hoping Hogan turns out to be a lot more valuable than Frawley. I don't think it a fair comparison.

I would probably trade Tommy Mac for Pick 3 at any stage from now until eternity unless he really, really improves to being a transcendental defender.

Would I trade Nathan Jones for Pick 3? Interesting question and I would probably rate him less than most but I wouldn't in this draft and given our midield situation. I would, however, trade him for Adam Treloar, or Brad Crouch or Jaeger O'Meara and if a club said we're taking one of Jones or Tyson, I would strongly consider letting them have Jones.

As for Dunn, giving him a four year deal is madness but he was pretty good this year and Frost if he can develop some nous has the athleticism to be a good defender. Did we lose much defensively with Frawley up forward.

Let's see how we go this year. We will have the highest rated debutant in the competition and picks 2 and 3 on the list. There is some optimism.

Edited November 14, 2014 by goodoil

[nutbean 8,837]

Don't forget Tyson was picked up primarily off the back of his TAC play and not off what he'd done for GWS and that trade is an excellent example of a good decision made by the footy club. That's the blue sky! If they make continuous good decisions success will follow.

Not sure I agree with that - My understanding is that he was looked at because of his very good finish to season 2012 where he was most impressive in his last three games ( his first year) and then after a long injury lay off finished off the last three games in 2013 with his last game being very good. The concern was more about his injuries than his form - he had shown he could go at AFL level. ( however as I said before - it was still a risk as his he was still a 2nd year player with not a great deal of exposed form)

[IvanBartul13 2,564]

Not sure I agree with that - My understanding is that he was looked at because of his very good finish to season 2012 where he was most impressive in his last three games ( his first year) and then after a long injury lay off finished off the last three games in 2013 with his last game being very good. The concern was more about his injuries than his form - he had shown he could go at AFL level. ( however as I said before - it was still a risk as his he was still a 2nd year player with not a great deal of exposed form)

The basis for the global assessment of his talent came primarily from his TAC Cup form where he was closely watched whilst playing with Jack Viney at the Chargers. What he'd done with GWS may have been a factor but they got him for the potential showed at under-age level.

[BIG JIM 508]

After speaking to the same mate who told me Brayshaw was being seriously considered by the Saints i was told the following

MFC rank Brayshaw ahead of Petracca

MFC rank Heeney ahead of both

Roos is a massive fan of Lever which was part of the motivation behind the Trengove potential trade.

The Saints rank Petracca and Brayshaw ahead of McCartin but they do still rate mcCartin and understand the value of he and Spencer White potentially playing alongside Roo while he is still at the club.

even if Petracca doesn't go pick 1, he is no certainty to go pick 3.

I'm sorry to sound rude but there is no chance pettraca will go past 3 I would up my house on that. Who ever told you this info is just wrong.

[ManDee 7,093]

I'm sorry to sound rude but there is no chance pettraca will go past 3 I would up my house on that. Who ever told you this info is just wrong.

So you haven't heard the rumours.

[ChaserJ 4,025]

After speaking to the same mate who told me Brayshaw was being seriously considered by the Saints i was told the following

MFC rank Brayshaw ahead of Petracca

MFC rank Heeney ahead of both

Roos is a massive fan of Lever which was part of the motivation behind the Trengove potential trade.

The Saints rank Petracca and Brayshaw ahead of McCartin but they do still rate mcCartin and understand the value of he and Spencer White potentially playing alongside Roo while he is still at the club.

even if Petracca doesn't go pick 1, he is no certainty to go pick 3.

The million dollar question is where do we rank McCartin and Lever?

Will come down to which of these we pair with Brayshaw.

[DistrACTION Jackson 6,747]

I'm sorry to sound rude but there is no chance pettraca will go past 3 I would up my house on that. Who ever told you this info is just wrong.

I don't think he said we won't take Petracca. He just said we rate Brayshaw higher. We may still take both...

[Slartibartfast 16,050]

I think your taking some liberties with what I've said.

I think you're right! I just think that while you may mathematically win with Frawley for pick 3 when compared against each other you don't when you factor in the overall team situation.

The player questions were rhetorical but from your answers you don't seem to rate key defenders. I do. The ability to shut down the oppositions key forward is one I rate highly, it wins you games.

We should probably talk about this over a beer.

Cheers

[Slartibartfast 16,050]

The basis for the global assessment of his talent came primarily from his TAC Cup form where he was closely watched whilst playing with Jack Viney at the Chargers. What he'd done with GWS may have been a factor but they got him for the potential showed at under-age level.

Richmond tried desperately to get him after year one. They rated him exceptionally highly.

[DistrACTION Jackson 6,747]

Richmond tried desperately to get him after year one. They rated him exceptionally highly.

Dom Tyson could be a genuine A grade Mid. He still needs to work on some areas but he just looks so smooth a calm for a 3rd year player.

[jabberwocky 2,301]

If Jack Frost is 80% of the key defender that Chip is from the outset, then to my mind we are up.

And if pick 3 ends up a solid to very good player then we have a significant win.

But yes they are all ifs and maybes.

We have some stability at the outside the playing list. I agree that it would nice to have some stability amongst the core playing group.

Edited November 14, 2014 by jabberwocky

[Lord Travis 10,298]

Had a dream last night that Saints took McCartin with Pick 1, we took Petracca with 2 and Brayshaw with 3. I don't often have dreams that make any sense so I'm quietly excited for draft time now!

[jabberwocky 2,301]

http://afl.com.au/news/2014-11-14/phantom-draft-form-guide-november-update

Cal Twomey's latest rankings. I've said it in the past (relentlessly, I know), but god I hope we don't reach on Lever.

When is it a "reach"?

Is it when you pick the best available and it's contrary to the phantom drafters?

[Ted Lasso 17,200]

I'm sorry to sound rude but there is no chance pettraca will go past 3 I would up my house on that. Who ever told you this info is just wrong.

we might well still take Petracca all i was told is that it's far from certain, Lever and McCartin the two the could potentially take his spot.

[Ted Lasso 17,200]

The million dollar question is where do we rank McCartin and Lever?

Will come down to which of these we pair with Brayshaw.

The impression i got was that we rate mcCartin as a certain top 5 pick, we rate Lever as a top 10 pick, obviously Roos thought he'd be there at pick 10, but i reckon there is a chance we may take a punt on Lever.

Brayshaw will be a MFC player if he doesn't go pick 1, you can take that to the bank.

[mauriesy 6,886]

I agree that Frawley is a very good player and there many posters here who cannot see it for some unfathomable reason.

It's not unfathomable. It's because he's gone and changed colours.