On 14/09/2014 at 02:47, Curry & Beer said:

can we all please ease up a little on the 'AFL hates us and so does God and wawawhhwahah'

I didn't say the AFL hates us, I said they have put in place a poor system. Funny thing is every Coach I have heard speak on the subject agrees, as do the media and all supporters I speak to. I haven't heard anybody say it is a good system.

Anyway I will try and harden up if that is all it takes to get a better system..

  On 14/09/2014 at 03:20, Curry & Beer said:

Yes I know how the system works.

Franklin leaves, cos his side won the flag they get pick 19

Frawley, leaves, cos we suck arse, we get pick 3

So doesn't that mean that the FA system actually favours the rubbish clubs?

There is every chance we will use that pick 3 to do another Tyson-style deal and we will have kicked a goal

No, it doesn't. The guys who leave are proven players or have at least shown enough to suggest they will be. Getting a high pick is fair compo but no guarantee that the player drafted will be a star. It gives us the opportunity to draft good, young talent, or trade for it, but the FA system also encourages these same players to leave in 5-6 years time to one of these big clubs after we've put countless hours into their development, only to get another pick as compo and do it all over again.

Granted, we need to develop the culture to stop that happening, but this is a worrying trend in FA.

  On 14/09/2014 at 02:58, Curry & Beer said:

You're complaining about what might happen in the future.

The past and present you have no grounds for complaint.

Hawks lost the best player in the comp for pick 19 and they are one of your envied 'big' clubs

Less whinge more hardening up is required by this club and its supporters

and did franklin go to a lowly club?

and did that club have to give up a pick or trade?

I'm guessing there would have been a few performance clauses in an MFC contract...performance clauses for on-field and off-field behaviour. If my guess is right his payments would increase as he demonstrated required performance. Otherwise MFC would be taking all the risk. These may have scared him off a little...so perhaps chasing an easier way at another club. Wouldn't be surprised if his suitors take the same approach tho'. Irresponsible or foolish if they don't.

Up to Mitch to decide what he values the most.

If the rumours of a trade to Collingwood are true i'd push for Mitch Clark & pick 57 for Harry Lamumba and pick 28, Mitch injury free is a better player than Harry so I think the pick upgrade is warranted and if he never comes good we win out with a solid B grade player and pick 28 could get a good player that slides through a little bit

  On 14/09/2014 at 03:44, jeck wartz said:

If the rumours of a trade to Collingwood are true i'd push for Mitch Clark & pick 57 for Harry Lamumba and pick 28, Mitch injury free is a better player than Harry so I think the pick upgrade is warranted and if he never comes good we win out with a solid B grade player and pick 28 could get a good player that slides through a little bit

This is Collingwood you are dealing with. It'd more likely be Mitch clark, pick 2 & 3 for Harry

  On 14/09/2014 at 03:44, jeck wartz said:

If the rumours of a trade to Collingwood are true i'd push for Mitch Clark & pick 57 for Harry Lamumba and pick 28, Mitch injury free is a better player than Harry so I think the pick upgrade is warranted and if he never comes good we win out with a solid B grade player and pick 28 could get a good player that slides through a little bit

Is Mitch over his injuries and ready to play AFL? Trades are not done on potential but on their current value. On that alone, a MC for HL swap would be a win for us IMO.

  On 14/09/2014 at 03:53, Moonshadow said:

Is Mitch over his injuries and ready to play AFL? Trades are not done on potential but on their current value. On that alone, a MC for HL swap would be a win for us IMO.

Incorrect, watch Jacksh and O'Rourke move for first round picks despite showing SFA in their first couple of seasons, that's based on potential and MFC need to play hard ball for Mitch, if we allow him to walk for a deal like that and he plays well we will feel like [censored] especially if Harry is only average, if we can snag a couple of good players, say Harry and Tom Lamb at pick 28 it won't be so bad

How about targeting Carlisle and or Hurley sure the dons would love high pick we need to plan with life after mitch Cameron would be number 1 followed by Carlisle then Hurley

  On 14/09/2014 at 03:55, jeck wartz said:

Incorrect, watch Jacksh and O'Rourke move for first round picks despite showing SFA in their first couple of seasons, that's based on potential and MFC need to play hard ball for Mitch, if we allow him to walk for a deal like that and he plays well we will feel like [censored] especially if Harry is only average, if we can snag a couple of good players, say Harry and Tom Lamb at pick 28 it won't be so bad

Lots of 'ifs' there JW.

Jacksh and O'Rourke are worth 1st round picks based on their current VALUE, not FORM. IMO Mitch would get us a 3rd round trade pick at best based on his current value, and Lumumba would get Coll pick 25-30 as trade swap. More importantly, HL would add immediate impact into our backline, Mitch has added nothing to our club since we got him except a handful of good games and a great deal of false hope.

  On 14/09/2014 at 04:14, Moonshadow said:

Lots of 'ifs' there JW.

Jacksh and O'Rourke are worth 1st round picks based on their current VALUE, not FORM. IMO Mitch would get us a 3rd round trade pick at best based on his current value, and Lumumba would get Coll pick 25-30 as trade swap. More importantly, HL would add immediate impact into our backline, Mitch has added nothing to our club since we got him except a handful of good games and a great deal of false hope.

Why is the rating system different for O'Rourke and Jacksh to Mitch, Mitch finds his best footy and he's absolutely worth a first round pick, but he may not.

O'Rourke and Jacksh develop well and they should be worth that, but they may not, it's all a gamble, none of the three are certainties by any standards, only Mitch we know has played A grade footy before and been AA, the other two have never done it

  On 14/09/2014 at 04:21, jeck wartz said:

Why is the rating system different for O'Rourke and Jacksh to Mitch, Mitch finds his best footy and he's absolutely worth a first round pick, but he may not.

O'Rourke and Jacksh develop well and they should be worth that, but they may not, it's all a gamble, none of the three are certainties by any standards, only Mitch we know has played A grade footy before and been AA, the other two have never done it

And the other two have much more probable up side than MC which makes them worth a 1st rounder. Unfortunately, no one will pay highly for MC, but they will for O'Rourke and Jacksh based upon current value, not ifs or 4 yr old form.

But I agree that it's a considered gamble.

I'm loving the irony of Brendan Goddard complaining about clubs targeting certain Bombers' players while there is unrest at the club. How can he say that with a straight face while Hird is sniffing around Clark?

  On 14/09/2014 at 03:14, bush demon said:

Hawthorn are net beneficiaries in this new world order; Lake, Gunston, Burgoyne. These EPL-type clubs just have to wait for the apples to fall from the tree. It's no longer a competition, just a profit-building exercise by media-rights holders. Melbourne are being royally screwed.

I think you'll find none of those players were free agents. FA has hurt Hawthorn, they lost Franklin and got pick 19 and we lost Sylvia and got 21(?). Don't reckon the Hawks would be pleased.

  On 14/09/2014 at 03:26, Redleg said:

I didn't say the AFL hates us, I said they have put in place a poor system. Funny thing is every Coach I have heard speak on the subject agrees, as do the media and all supporters I speak to. I haven't heard anybody say it is a good system.

Anyway I will try and harden up if that is all it takes to get a better system..

I think coaches hate it for the same reason the supporters hate it. When you draft someone you like to be able to keep them and not be subject to having them hijacked. Clarkeson would hate the fact Franklin walked for pick 19 compensation but I reckon what he'd hate more is the fact that Sydney get someone for nothing and that might cost them a flag.

Hawks have done the hard yards and developed a sensational list. Sydney come along and whilst they are no slouches in list development they have plucked Tippett in a PSD and Franklin in the FA system. They are arguably the two best players to change clubs in the past 2 years and they went to the Premiers of a couple of years ago for one stupid PSD pick.

That system doesn't work at all for me and I doubt anyone would support it including the Swans - they have just been smart enough to exploit the loopholes.

Pick 3 for Frawley is good compensation. We got well compensated for Sylvia. FA is an imperfect system because the club gaining the player doesn't have to pay for them in drafting terms. That's where it stinks.

  On 14/09/2014 at 07:33, RalphiusMaximus said:

I'm loving the irony of Brendan Goddard complaining about clubs targeting certain Bombers' players while there is unrest at the club. How can he say that with a straight face while Hird is sniffing around Clark?

Not to mention the way they got him.

Current Status

Pesona non grata

  On 14/09/2014 at 07:59, Baghdad Bob said:

I think you'll find none of those players were free agents. FA has hurt Hawthorn, they lost Franklin and got pick 19 and we lost Sylvia and got 21(?). Don't reckon the Hawks would be pleased.

dont forget that was straight after their first round draft pick.

it was pick 19 because their first round pick was 18 BECAUSE THEY WON THE FLAG.

if they had finished last they would have got pick 2 for him.

  On 10/09/2014 at 14:48, bush demon said:

The 2000's have just been the icing on the cake. Being a Demon supporter since the time of the Kennedy assassination, Cassius Clay defeating Sonny Liston, and Beatlemania has been one hit after another....

Well, we did win the flag 10 months after the Oswald v Kennedy stoush.

  On 14/09/2014 at 09:51, biggestred said:

dont forget that was straight after their first round draft pick.

it was pick 19 because their first round pick was 18 BECAUSE THEY WON THE FLAG.

if they had finished last they would have got pick 2 for him.

yes. we understand. what is your point?

  On 14/09/2014 at 07:33, RalphiusMaximus said:

I'm loving the irony of Brendan Goddard complaining about clubs targeting certain Bombers' players while there is unrest at the club. How can he say that with a straight face while Hird is sniffing around Clark?

I think the word he used was 'unethical'. Which is the first club that springs to mind when you hear the word 'unethical'?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NvgLkuEtkA

  On 14/09/2014 at 10:50, Curry & Beer said:

yes. we understand. what is your point?

the point is the hawks got the highest compensation possible for buddy and won a flag so they should stop whinging about getting pick 19 for him

  On 14/09/2014 at 13:07, biggestred said:

the point is the hawks got the highest compensation possible for buddy and won a flag so they should stop whinging about getting pick 19 for him

The argument is that that they only got pick 19 shows that FA is somehow OK. The argument that FA won't negatively affect clubs like our is simply wishful thinking mixed with hairy-chested bravado saying that 'we don't need help, we should harden up'. Sort of thing you say to a drowning man when you are refusing to throw him a life buoy.

  On 14/09/2014 at 10:50, Curry & Beer said:

yes. we understand. what is your point?

Adding to Biggestred's response, the point is we got a Round 2 pick for Sylvia, a former No. 3 pick whilst Hawthorn received a Round 1 pick for Franklin. Also, as Premiers they had more depth than us [as Cellar-dwellers] so occassionally the AFL looks at things objectively!

  On 11/09/2014 at 02:31, sweet dee said:

So you think he was just using us for our resources, and all the lovely stuff he said about the MFC was just bulllshit?

Sorry but I can't bring myself to that conclusion. I don't know Mitch personally but I don't think he has that kind of deception in him

Honestly, how would any of us know ?