AFL 360 - Focus on MFC

[Mac7 309]

So we are trading out one of the current captains (Grimes), a 20 year old first round pick that hasn't played 20 games yet (Toumpas) and a 22 year old first round pick and former captain that has struggled with injury (Trengove). For a few speculative picks in an open draft which we will already have good picks in.

Yeah real smart.

[Satyriconhome 10,880]

He was also the first to say Scully was definately going to GWS and had agreed to the deal.

The MFC called a press conference at which Scully said " I have made no decision".

Hmm turns out he was spot with that one.

A lot of these journalists? will turn out right in a lot of things, they, like us, have a 50/50 chance, good odds in the modern world

King just rubs people up the wrong way because of, for want of a better word, his manner

[Satyriconhome 10,880]

So we are trading out one of the current captains (Grimes), a 20 year old first round pick that hasn't played 20 games yet (Toumpas) and a 22 year old first round pick and former captain that has struggled with injury (Trengove). For a few speculative picks in an open draft which we will already have good picks in.

Yeah real smart.

Smart and Demonland don't usually appear in the same sentence, Demonland has from last count about 30 players either traded or delisted, believe there is a collection being put together to pay out contracts

[beelzebub 23,389]

Smart and Demonland don't usually appear in the same sentence, Demonland has from last count about 30 players either traded or delisted, believe there is a collection being put together to pay out contracts

you say this Saty...yet remind me of where we currently reside in this competition ??

[Elusive Tunbridge 795]

Was the pact a Pinky Promise or the verve of youth ?

Things change !!

If they made it without consulting their managers, I think it doesn't count.

[Satyriconhome 10,880]

you say this Saty...yet remind me of where we currently reside in this competition ??

We reside where we are in the competition for a myriad of reasons that have been analysed/talked about/derided/debated etc etc ad infinitum......unfortunately during the period that this predicament has been germinating, Demonland has seen a steady increase in the knee jerk reaction postings

I will give u a quick synopsis of how we got here, towards the end of Daniher's reign the team had stagnated and a lot of players were getting games on reputation, he left and Bailey was brought in, a coach who loved natural footballers and made sure we recruited them, unfortunately the game had moved on from where just footy ability could get you through, we also ditched too many senior players too quickly, and the team suffered, Bailey encountered Geelong at the height of their powers and left, Neeld and his big Malthouse nurtured stick were brought in to tidy up the mess, using Moneyball to try and plug the glaring gaps in the list, it didn't work......whilst this was going on, on the field, unfortunately behind the scenes in administration we had power struggles, ego clashes, terrible decisions etc etc....we now have a good Chairman, a really good CEO and an excellent coach to right the ship.......not everything that occurred was bad, but on Demonland that is all that is ever highlighted

[beelzebub 23,389]

We reside where we are in the competition for a myriad of reasons that have been analysed/talked about/derided/debated etc etc ad infinitum......unfortunately during the period that this predicament has been germinating, Demonland has seen a steady increase in the knee jerk reaction postings

I will give u a quick synopsis of how we got here, towards the end of Daniher's reign the team had stagnated and a lot of players were getting games on reputation, he left and Bailey was brought in, a coach who loved natural footballers and made sure we recruited them, unfortunately the game had moved on from where just footy ability could get you through, we also ditched too many senior players too quickly, and the team suffered, Bailey encountered Geelong at the height of their powers and left, Neeld and his big Malthouse nurtured stick were brought in to tidy up the mess, using Moneyball to try and plug the glaring gaps in the list, it didn't work......whilst this was going on, on the field, unfortunately behind the scenes in administration we had power struggles, ego clashes, terrible decisions etc etc....we now have a good Chairman, a really good CEO and an excellent coach to right the ship.......not everything that occurred was bad, but on Demonland that is all that is ever highlighted

Even simpler explanation. History has shown we made bucket loads of very poor decisions about a lot of things. but in terms of the team we made bungles not only on who we chose but how we went about it.

There have been some very sage words written on these boards by some with good insight and handle on this game . A lot was borne out in time.

You cant just dismiss whats written here in DL as bunkum .

In all fairness to all though much of what is written here on DL has to do with failure because there's very little success to talk about. its bound to appear one sided >

[old dee 23,953]

A lot of these journalists? will turn out right in a lot of things, they, like us, have a 50/50 chance, good odds in the modern world

King just rubs people up the wrong way because of, for want of a better word, his manner

I don't disagree with you Saty

I was just making the observation that he has gone early on a couple of things to do with the MFC and got them spot on.

[old dee 23,953]

Even simpler explanation. History has shown we made bucket loads of very poor decisions about a lot of things. but in terms of the team we made bungles not only on who we chose but how we went about it.

There have been some very sage words written on these boards by some with good insight and handle on this game . A lot was borne out in time.

You cant just dismiss whats written here in DL as bunkum .

In all fairness to all though much of what is written here on DL has to do with failure because there's very little success to talk about. its bound to appear one sided >

I doubt you will say wiser words than those this week bb

[The Big Ticket 94]

Smart and Demonland don't usually appear in the same sentence, Demonland has from last count about 30 players either traded or delisted, believe there is a collection being put together to pay out contracts

Your training reports are quality but must you fill every thread on the board with your dismissive rubbish?

[P-man 13,366]

...have they stagnated this season?....Trengove and Toumpas have spent most of it injured and all the hyperbole about the other two is just that

Talking in terms of their short careers, yes of course they have stagnated. Trengove since his first couple of years has gone backwards, and we will wait in hope to see what player emerges next season and beyond. If post surgery we see the same Trengove we saw in 2013, it will be a concern. I know you don't like to hear about concerns, but it will be a legitimate one. Toumpas has done pretty much nothing thus far but also falls into the wait and see category for one so new to AFL. But even for a young player, as a Pick 4, he has stagnated.

Grimes has been less than ordinary this year. He remains a solid one-on-one defender but we need more from him than that.

I haven't seen a lot of development in Watts this season, particularly in the glaring deficiencies in his game. Roos says otherwise but I reserve the right to disagree with him on some occasions.

I stand by my comment that another season like this one and their value will drop significantly, hence the topic of their possible trade value being raised now.

[jumbo returns 6,741]

Same here.

What you've been told may be right or what I've been told may be right.

No ones calling anyone a liar although you seem to have issue with it.

You post something that you've heard and because it doesn't suit some posters, they portray angst.

I couldn't care less.

[Satyriconhome 10,880]

Your training reports are quality but must you fill every thread on the board with your dismissive rubbish?

I am dismissive because as far as I know most on here have never played or coached at AFL level, so have no idea what is required to perform at that level.

Second point is a lot of it is not original, usually gleaned from one of the many Footy Talking Heads we have these days

We also have posters who don't even watch the games pontificating

If you put forward a well thought argument I will read it, if the post contains nothing but the usual bashing, what is the point?

Edited August 14, 2014 by Satyriconhome

[old dee 23,953]

Talking in terms of their short careers, yes of course they have stagnated. Trengove since his first couple of years has gone backwards, and we will wait in hope to see what player emerges next season and beyond. If post surgery we see the same Trengove we saw in 2013, it will be a concern. I know you don't like to hear about concerns, but it will be a legitimate one. Toumpas has done pretty much nothing thus far but also falls into the wait and see category for one so new to AFL. But even for a young player, as a Pick 4, he has stagnated.

Grimes has been less than ordinary this year. He remains a solid one-on-one defender but we need more from him than that.

I haven't seen a lot of development in Watts this season, particularly in the glaring deficiencies in his game. Roos says otherwise but I reserve the right to disagree with him on some occasions.

I stand by my comment that another season like this one and their value will drop significantly, hence the topic of their possible trade value being raised now.

Struggling to find something to disagree with in that lot P-man

[Satyriconhome 10,880]

Your training reports are quality but must you fill every thread on the board with your dismissive rubbish?

I am dismissive because I far as I know most on here have never played or coached at AFL level, so have no idea what is required to perform at that level.

Second point is a lot of it is not original, usually gleaned from one of the many Footy Talking Heads we have these days

We also have posters who don't even watch the games pontificating

If you put forward a well thought argument I will read it, if the post contains nothing but the usual bashing, what is the point?

Talking in terms of their short careers, yes of course they have stagnated. Trengove since his first couple of years has gone backwards, and we will wait in hope to see what player emerges next season and beyond. If post surgery we see the same Trengove we saw in 2013, it will be a concern. I know you don't like to hear about concerns, but it will be a legitimate one. Toumpas has done pretty much nothing thus far but also falls into the wait and see category for one so new to AFL. But even for a young player, as a Pick 4, he has stagnated.

Grimes has been less than ordinary this year. He remains a solid one-on-one defender but we need more from him than that.

I haven't seen a lot of development in Watts this season, particularly in the glaring deficiencies in his game. Roos says otherwise but I reserve the right to disagree with him on some occasions.

I stand by my comment that another season like this one and their value will drop significantly, hence the topic of their possible trade value being raised now.

Ox who likes nothing more than creating a headline, it helps the ratings, started the Watts trade 'discussion' it is just being repeated on here

[beelzebub 23,389]

I am dismissive because I far as I know most on here have never played or coached at AFL level, so have no idea what is required to perform at that level.

You know what HISTORY is a pretty good judge

Ox who likes nothing more than creating a headline, it helps the ratings, started the Watts trade 'discussion' it is just being repeated on here

Now going back to your first point D Swartz 12 seasons, 173 games...... might actually know a thing or two !! NO ??

[Machsy 2,858]

What I love is that we can't get Tomlinson because he made a pact with the other GWS players to stay.

Such a specific pact that it includes players such as "etc, etc"

[Wiseblood 24,637]

I am dismissive because I far as I know most on here have never played or coached at AFL level, so have no idea what is required to perform at that level.

Second point is a lot of it is not original, usually gleaned from one of the many Footy Talking Heads we have these days

We also have posters who don't even watch the games pontificating

If you put forward a well thought argument I will read it, if the post contains nothing but the usual bashing, what is the point?

Ox who likes nothing more than creating a headline, it helps the ratings, started the Watts trade 'discussion' it is just being repeated on here

People on here have been talking about trading Watts for years. Doesn't mean it's right, but if anyone is repeating anything it's the Ox.

[P-man 13,366]

Ox who likes nothing more than creating a headline, it helps the ratings, started the Watts trade 'discussion' it is just being repeated on here

Oh c'mon now Saty, Ox is far from the first person to ever raise the topic of a Watts trade. Were you asleep when his contract renewal was being discussed in the public domain last year?

[rjay 25,230]

What I love is that we can't get Tomlinson because he made a pact with the other GWS players to stay.

Such a specific pact that it includes players such as "etc, etc"

I don't know if we'll get him 'Machsy' or even if he's the right fit for us but my mail is he wants to come home which is I think what you've heard as well. In the end he may not be able to, a little like Tyson the year before wanting to go to Richmond. Lucky for us it didn't work out.

I also think even if they want to stay some GWS players will be moved on regardless. They will need to and want to trade.

[Satyriconhome 10,880]

I am dismissive because I far as I know most on here have never played or coached at AFL level, so have no idea what is required to perform at that level.

You know what HISTORY is a pretty good judge

Ox who likes nothing more than creating a headline, it helps the ratings, started the Watts trade 'discussion' it is just being repeated on here

Now going back to your first point D Swartz 12 seasons, 173 games...... might actually know a thing or two !! NO ??

No, not necessarily, the game is changing at a rapid rate, liked him as a player, not as a 'commentator/pundit.............bit like Brereton, absolute champion player, a repeater as a pundit......................Ox likes generating headlines, like all of them it keeps them in a job, nobody listens, he doesn't work...bit like Paul Gardner who they keep bringing out to make a comment, yes he was the Pres, but not a paid up member for at least the last 3 years...yet still feels he has the right to comment

Edited August 14, 2014 by Satyriconhome

[beelzebub 23,389]

No, not necessarily, the game is changing at a rapid rate, liked him as a player, not as a 'commentator/pundit.............bit like Brereton, absolute champion player, a repeater as a pundit......................Ox likes generating headlines, like all of them it keeps them in a job, nobody listens, he doesn't work...bit like Paul Gardner who they keep bringing out to make a comment, yes he was the Pres, but not a paid up member for at least the last 3 years...yet still feels he has the right to comment

As a commentator in the media (DS) it is actually his job to comment. Having said that its not necessarily a given that a commentator might not actually say something worthy as opposed to purely a headline.

I actually thought the thrust of the Ox's sentiments was that both parties were in a bit of a rut with each other and both simply need a freshness ( gained from Watts moving on ) I agree 100% with that. I think THAT would work best, but he may well stay.

Anyone can comment. Up to us to filter.

[Satyriconhome 10,880]

Oh c'mon now Saty, Ox is far from the first person to ever raise the topic of a Watts trade. Were you asleep when his contract renewal was being discussed in the public domain last year?

This isn't about what has transpired previously, this is now, the Ox started the fire again, and now everybody is throwing petrol on the flames, that is my point

[beelzebub 23,389]

This isn't about what has transpired previously, this is now, the Ox started the fire again, and now everybody is throwing petrol on the flames, that is my point

We cant know that this ISNT an option currently in the minds of the club. Melbourne will wait til end other season and trade begins to evaluate the best path forwards.

I havent heard anyone categorically say Watts isnt tradable, but happy to be corrected

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

The defence for most media commentators, when making their so-called, informed comment, is that they are paid to make the prognostications that they do. As the 19th Century British Prime Minister, Benjamin Disraeli opined, there are three kinds of lies; lies, damned lies and statistics.

Acknowledging that not only media gurus cite statistics when analysing footy teams' performances, but footy clubs themselves also use them, to measure the teams' KPI's- geez I hate jargon. However, in my view, the mistake most media commentators make when analysing stats and then comparing that data between footy teams is that the basic - and flawed assumption - is the metaphoric playing field that all 18 clubs compete upon is even.

We can hypothesise as much as we like about who we should trade, and as a result what additional draft picks we might secure, but in reality, what confronts the MFC is that the very bones of our footy club have been so severely fractured by inept administration, warring footy departments and yes, bad draft selections, as well as some badly timed delistings of senior and might I add loved players. In terms of ill-advised draft selections, we are not Robinson Crusoe there, But, even though it may be through its own historical bad management, the MFC have not competed, in the football sense, on a level playing field for quite some time now. Our more recent history shows that there has been almost a universal reliance on high draft picks and the occasional "coup" of experienced and highly paid recruits to cure all our ills. As our record shows, this was a foolhardy and ill-advised strategy - with some, but very few exceptions.

Unlike the so-called successful and powerful clubs, who made their own 'level playing field", we have failed to develop players from within, not heeded the very human needs of bonding and belonging to a unified cause and we have totally disregarded what creates that sense of 'club'.

It is clear - as has been well canvassed on here - that Jackson and Roos have been brought in with a view to not only overhaul the list, but to recalibrate the very culture of the footy club. But such an overhaul is never successful by simply outing the old and bringing in the new. To me it seems that their priority is to bring the MFC back on to that "level playing field" again, so that statistical comparisons will actually have some true meaning in the future. Regardless of who we draft, trade or de-list at the end of the this season, it will be meaningless if we in any way hamper Roos and Jackson in their pursuit of the task that they see as patently evident. I am sure, in no small way, this is what influenced Roos to exercise his option and take the third year extension on his contract. He is under no illusions as to the size of the task that confronts him.

I have faith that Roos has the qualities and skills that will enable him to get the job at hand done. My only fear is that the damage done by past decisions is so irretrievable, that it may be too late. Of course time will tell

Go Dees.

Edited August 14, 2014 by iv'a worn smith