Post match discussion - Round 20

[jumbo returns 6,737]

I didn't watch the game (I was drinking at a pub without Foxtel) but it does sound like a typical Melbourne effort under Paul Roos.

Resistance was put up but at the end of the day, our execution was not there.

I am a little less filthy when I hear that we didn't completely pantsed.

I realize how far off the pace we really are at the end of the day.

I was always taught that if you put the effort in there is nothing you can't do. It sounds like yesterday's game disproves that theory.

We still need to ensure that at the end of the season that there are trades/delistings and this time, it's not just fringe types or players at the end of their careers. Two of our Jacks (Grimes and Watts) need to be considered as serious trade bait.

Pub without Foxtel? What were you thinking??

[titan_uranus 24,970]

Additionally, if you needed further evidence that the disposal efficiency statistic is a complete waste of space, look no further than this game.

Melbourne 77%, Hawthorn 75%.

[Wiseblood 24,637]

Another standard MFC 2014 performance. Very good inside, clearances and contested possessions either in our favour or close enough, and manful work all day from the stronger bodied types. However, far too slow with ball in hand, way too many errors, and passengers all afternoon.

Jetta was amazing. Simply amazing. I'm proud to have an AA-level small defender in our side, one who has done it tough (being re-rookied) and has made it work.

Very, very pleased to see Gawn bring his VFL form to the AFL. He's clearly worked on his marking and his body-work in the forward line and it paid off. He had his defenders beaten so many times yesterday. He knows where to lead, too. Kicking at goal needs work, but with another pre-season and more fitness, we may have found a quality weapon.

Cross added so much to our midfield. Tyson was great again in the clearances. N Jones was good, but he can do better. Recently I've felt he's been trying to get the dinky out the back kick/handpass too much and running himself into trouble a bit more.

Barry showed enough to suggest he can be a long-term player. Michie also played a lot better than we've seen.

At the other end of the spectrum, JKH was terrible - didn't look interested at any point in the day. Pathetic display from him. M Jones was also rubbish.

He looks tired to be honest. I agree with you though, his performance was terrible, but it looks as though his first season is finally taking it's toll. Problem is that there is no one else worth bringing in to play his role at the minute.

[titan_uranus 24,970]

He looks tired to be honest. I agree with you though, his performance was terrible, but it looks as though his first season is finally taking it's toll. Problem is that there is no one else worth bringing in to play his role at the minute.

Happy to say he's tiring, but Dom Barry was spent halfway through the second quarter but continued to put in 100%.

I'd rather be giving games to JKH than Blease/Tapscott/McKenzie/Strauss/Terlich, but I want to see JKH at least look like he wants to be out there.

[sue 9,096]

Additionally, if you needed further evidence that the disposal efficiency statistic is a complete waste of space, look no further than this game.

Melbourne 77%, Hawthorn 75%.

I don't follow stats much, but that is surprising. Trouble is when the Hawks kick it, especially into their forward line, it's unstoppable.

[Scoop Junior 3,435]

Expectation is a funny thing as a footy fan. On face value, you would think that you’d be far happier after a game in which you lead a side by 14 points in the last quarter than another game that was effectively over at half time and in truth you were never really in.

But I was extremely disappointed after last week’s loss to Brisbane, whereas I felt reasonably content with the performance yesterday. It all comes down to expectation really – last week I thought we should have comfortably defeated an inferior opposition at home, whereas this week I was expecting a 60-70 point loss.

I know it’s not accurate to break a game down like this, but take out the 20 minute burst of five goals from Hawthorn in the second term and the score is 12 goals to 9. So for a bit over three quarters we were reasonably competitive against the top side, a side who have routinely belted us over the years. That five goal burst was started by a terrible Matt Jones error – the kind of mistake the top teams just don’t make.

Now I know it would be fair to say that Hawthorn weren’t at their best and were probably just cruising through the majority of the game, but I have seen this mob systematically destroy us over the last seven years. I was even at Casey for the practice match this season, when they beat us by 100-odd points in what was just one-way traffic all game. It was absolutely terrible.

Let’s be honest here, on talent alone they are miles ahead of us and it’s no surprise that they are going to beat us. They are simply better. But there’s a huge difference between getting beaten by a better team and going down fighting hard as opposed to dropping your bundle and getting hammered. Thankfully yesterday was the former and that’s really all you can ask for from your footy team.

I think the other thing to emerge from the game is that it really highlighted the areas we have improved in and the areas we need to get better in. Apart from that five goal burst our defensive intent was reasonably good, we matched them in the clearances and the contested ball and we didn’t lack for effort. All areas they would have smashed us in last year.

But while we have improved markedly inside the contest, we really struggle outside the contest. We got beaten in uncontested ball and for me the key difference between the sides was Hawthorn’s ability to run, spread, hit targets and move the ball with speed and accuracy on the outside, whereas we struggled to move the ball with the same speed and fluency. It’s not that we don’t want to move the ball that way, it’s just that we don’t have the run, speed and skill level in our line up to execute it. It really highlighted once again the our focus for recruiting should be on class midfielders who are good ball users and who can run. Salem and Toumpas will hopefully develop into these types of players which would be of enormous help, but we still need more.

The other positives came in the form of inclusions Michie, Gawn and Barry who all showed a bit, and Pig Dog was very effective coming on as the sub. He lacks pace and is a little messy, but he tackles to hurt and is as hard as his nick name suggests. He needs to work on his running but hopefully that will come with another pre-season as he overcomes his broken leg last year.

So, all in all, another loss to the Hawks, but a really honest performance that showed the gains we have made this year and highlighted the areas we need to improve.

Edited August 10, 2014 by Scoop Junior

[titan_uranus 24,970]

I don't follow stats much, but that is surprising. Trouble is when the Hawks kick it, especially into their forward line, it's unstoppable.

Part of it is because we rack up a stack of backwards/sideways kicks and handpasses.

Part of it is because the statistic isn't worth the paper it's written on.

Hawthorn's kicking yesterday was sublime. McDonald would regularly be right next to Roughead and close him down on the lead, but because of the kicks coming in, McDonald couldn't stop Roughy from getting his hands out to mark it. Perfect kicking, and completely the opposite of how we deliver it to Dawes.

[Satyriconhome 10,689]

CBF......my quote won't work, you didn't even watch the game, yet you still come on here and pontificate, couldn't make the EFFORT to watch....nice support, if you didn't watch it, how are you making your opinions, Vulcan mind melding?

[DeeSpencer 25,444]

We actually didn't kick the ball too badly yesterday. Sometimes even going forward we hit up Dawes and Frawley much better than in previous weeks.

But Hawthorn power run and carry from half back and then kick in to space often for midfielders or half forwards leading in all sorts of directions to the space who can then wheel and kick to dangerous areas and one on ones. McDonald was dead to rights on Roughy with that deliver. At times Garland and Howe stopped Breust. Schoenmakers stopped himself. Jetta destroyed that little turd Puopolo.

Jack Watts got beaten by Schoenmakers by not winning a one on one that led to a Hill goal. Slipped off a tackle that couldn't hurt a fly when Breust turned and ran straight for goal which he does incredibly well. And conceded another goal when instead of being goal side he was trailing his man and was tripped up by a McDonald/Roughead contest.

But hey when you can't find the intensity and lay tackles forward why are you going to do it down back?

Dunny also stuffed up a bunch of one on ones that were quite surprising. He's had a shocking 2 weeks although was better in the second half.

A switched on Lynden Dunn, never ever playing Watts in the backline again when up against that quality of an opponent and Matt Jones avoiding a comical turn over and we probably hold Hawthorn to a reasonable score whilst still getting some ball movement and flow to our game.

Pretty much the plan was right and the players executed the plan about as well as they could. We just need our bottom 10 players to be fitter, faster, stronger and more experienced and more skilled. If Gawn, Barry, Michie, Riley, Tyson, Viney, Kent, JKH and McDonald all improve we are on to something.

[Demonland 71,310]

SQUAWKING by Whispering Jack

This match report on the Round 20 game between Melbourne and Hawthorn opens with a definitive statement:

"Forget about all of this baloney about Melbourne being scarred by tanking talk.

That controversy was five years ago, and to raise it now simply smells of a club looking for excuses."

The excuse-making and squawking after last week's pathetic capitulation to the Brisbane Lions was hopefully an aberration on the part of Demon coach Paul Roos which will not be repeated. He may not have been aware of it, but his comments would open up old wounds and allow some to approach their soap boxes and raise old agendas that need to be set aside if the club is to progress.

Moreover, telling players publicly that they are wounded by a long gone event that happened when only 20% of the current list was at the club (including some of its better players who are by no means haunted by the experience) is likely to be counterproductive. It certainly turned out that way in the game against Hawthorn.

The Hawks dominated from go to whoa and at times, toyed with the Demons whose play was still very much defensive and stilted in style and which contained the fair share of hesitation, skill errors and turnovers. Thankfully, some of the changes to the line up necessitated by last week's fiasco, gave the team a harder edge and we saw less of the bumbling and stumbling that highlighted that performance.

Of course, that was a necessity given that the Demons were playing the top of the ladder Hawks rather than the lowly Lions of a week before. In the end, Melbourne lost by 50 points but it was one in which it would have succumbed by double that only twelve months ago.

The team once again failed to score even ten goals and there was little to suggest any impending improvement in its forward potency. Chris Dawes continues to disappoint as the team's only true key forward. He did have an interrupted preseason but he doesn't seem to be playing with his earlier zest and needs the back up of at least one or two other effective talls up forward if there is to be improvement in this department. Max Gawn's return to the team after a strong month in the VFL was a promising start.

Again, quoting from the above article:

"Five of Melbournes first seven goals came from direct kicks to the space in front of the goalsquare, and yet that particularly option seemed the one they were least inclined to take.

"Instead, there were numerous passages of play where Melbourne second-guessed itself. At one point in the second term Chris Dawes came streaming up the wing, marking beautifully on the lead. His first instinct was to then turn around and kick it 45 metres backwards, prompting booing from the Members Stand."

... and ...

"There were even instances where Melbourne players were in the clear within 30 or 40 metres of goal, and rather than taking the shot, they looked to handball to a teammate under even more pressure."

Clearly, none of this has anything to do with what might have taken place in the "vault" at the Junction Oval or how a team that lost 11 out of its first 12 games in Dean Bailey's second season as coach and which culminated in an expression of dismay by the tanking accusers that Melbourne had the temerity to lose its last game of the 2009 to top-of-the-ladder St. Kilda. To suggest otherwise is, at best, indulging in fantasy.

The Demons were well served by its usual midfield guns in Nathan Jones and Dom Tyson while Neville Jetta continues to shine and demonstrate why he is easily the club's most improved player. As mentioned above, Gawn helped to improve the forward set up and Aidan Riley had a real impact when he was substituted into the game.

One expects the club will continue to give its young players every chance for the rest of the season instead of those who have been around, had their chances and failed to deliver in the past. One also hopes that somehow, the team will play with some more positivity when going into attack from now on as it would, at the very least, give the club's success-starved fans something to look forward to for the remainder of the season and beyond.

Melbourne 2.1.13 4.5.29 7.8.50 9.11.65

Hawthorn4.4.28 10.8.68 15.8.98 17.13.115

Goals

Melbourne Gawn 2 Dawes Frawley, Kennedy-Harris Kent Riley Tyson Viney

Hawthorn Roughead 5 Breust 3 Hill Smith 2 Hale Lewis Puopolo Schoenmakers Shiels

Best

Melbourne Tyson Jetta, N. Jones Howe Gawn Cross

Hawthorn Lewis Shiels Roughead Smith Hodge Birchall

Changes

Melbourne Nil

Hawthorn Nil

Injuries

Melbourne Nil

Hawthorn Nil

Reports

Melbourne Nil

Hawthorn J Roughead for tripping D Tyson in the second quarter

Umpires Nil

Hawthorn Ben Ryan, Jeff Dalgleish, Nicholas Foot

Crowd 37,082 at the MCG

[jnrmac 20,053]

Smilegate might be a non-issue, but Watts is no workhorse. There was an instance where he was coming off the halfback line, handballed it off, and then just casually jogged ahead and eventually stuck his arms out. Other players sprint to create an option. Watts barely breaks into a sweat.

The amount of times you see him jogging around nonchalantly is alarming for a player at the elite level. Couple that with his complete lack of intensity and hardness and you have a passenger. When his decisions then also become questionable (e.g. balking in front of goal and handballing to Viney who gets tackled) he goes from partial liability to total liability.

How much longer are his efforts going to be defended? ANOTHER 6 years? All these excuses of "he's too smart to run there" or "he's been played in too many positions" have run dry. If he plays like this for another couple of years, his worth on the trade table will be next to nothing.

Pointing so much is exhausting. No wonder he's buggered.

[DemonOX 8,781]

One thing that really got my goat was when Riley nearly had his head taken off by a hawks player who went and kicked the ball off the ground rather than trying to pick it up like Riley.

This was directly in front of the Ump and he calls "play on".

Play on what is he far#ing blind. What an absolute useless, moronic, pathetic yellow maggot.

If it were a dorks player they would have got the free and a 50m penalty because a Melbourne player did it.

Some players are a protected species and then there's Melbourne.

Disgraceful.

[Wunders 397]

Additionally, if you needed further evidence that the disposal efficiency statistic is a complete waste of space, look no further than this game.

Melbourne 77%, Hawthorn 75%.

That's really interesting to see. I was watching the replay this morning and i thought it popped up in the third quarter (maybe) that the disposal efficiency was 80% (hawks) 50-56% dees...

May have been kicking efficiency now that i think on it..

[Moonshadow 17,675]

What's the bet that if GWS are winning by 5 goals with 10 mins remaining next week they put all their bench on the ground and have to forfeit the match...

The Petracca Cup.

[Guest]

CBF......my quote won't work, you didn't even watch the game, yet you still come on here and pontificate, couldn't make the EFFORT to watch....nice support, if you didn't watch it, how are you making your opinions, Vulcan mind melding?

Errmmm. I had social commitments I had to go to and would have liked to have watched the match but the pub didn't have Foxtel. Unlike your good self, I have actual friends (and you can't count the captive audience of poor unfortunate players you ambush at training as your friends).

Edited August 10, 2014 by Colin B. Flaubert

[Pipefitter 2,150]

It would be nice if the players would stop trying to handball it all the way to the goal line when we enter the 50. Someone take responsibility and kick the goal.

[Guest]

Pub without Foxtel? What were you thinking??

We had two choices. I would have preferred my local but one of our companions is dead against pokies so that was ruled out. I assumed the pub we went to had Foxtel but was disappointed to find out they didn't.

The place we went to was a nice little venue though. An owner operated deal with pretty good food.

Edited August 10, 2014 by Colin B. Flaubert

[Deecisive 1,709]

Hawthorn killed us with their running off the half back line, which kind of meant our half forwards were too loose and letting them get away. I dont know how many times this year i have seen opposition players run the ball out of our backline with no one attacking them. We had players running beside hawthorn players instead of putting pressure on them in one instance Tyson appeared to tell Matt Jones to chase the man with the ball instead he chased his man, the hawks goaled. We need to put pressure on the ball carrier. I was amazed at times that our players seemed to get drawn away from the ball carrier so often, or would not engage the ball carrier instead focusing on their own man too much.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,162]

Amazing how every second thread degenerates into Watts bashing/defence. Just as well join the fray.

They'd be a lot less bashing if he hadn't been taken at pick 1 and hailed as the messiah. They'd probably be a few of his critics saying they'd wish the rest of the team had his skills. Disappointment makes people bitter.

If he wasn't a number one pick he would've been dropped to Casey more often and probably traded out by now.

[Bitter but optimistic 22,218]

Errmmm. I had social commitments I had to go to and would have liked to have watched the match but the pub didn't have Foxtel. Unlike your good self, I have actual friends (and you can't count the captive audience of poor unfortunate players you ambush at training as your friends).

You're excuse making like an alcoholic Colin! What does that mean?

[Nasher 33,607]

If it were a dorks player they would have got the free and a 50m penalty because a Melbourne player did it.

To be fair, that rule is hardly ever paid now for some reason, Melbourne or otherwise. I don't think it's part of the great Umpires Are Against Melbourne conspiracy.

I agree that it's not being paid in some absurdly dangerous situations though.

[Guest]

You're excuse making like an alcoholic Colin! What does that mean?

Well, I was pretty pizzed last night so maybe alcoholism is the reason I didn't go to the footy?

[Bitter but optimistic 22,218]

Well, I was pretty pizzed last night so maybe alcoholism is the reason I didn't go to the footy?

You must feel a better man with that off your chest Col? However, don't believe the bullshite about admitting the problem being the first step to recovery - look at me!

[McQueen 17,864]

Three maybe four more keepers today. Barry, Gawn and Michie. Riley will be ok too.

How can you say this after one okay game? Most posters said Barry was like rabbit in headlights vs Freo and will struggle in the big time.

I'll be holding judgement on these speculative blokes until they've got at least 20 or more games under their belts. Look at Clisby for instance, he was looking okay last year but has disappeared this year.

[jumbo returns 6,737]

How can you say this after one okay game? Most posters said Barry was like rabbit in headlights vs Freo and will struggle in the big time.

I'll be holding judgement on these speculative blokes until they've got at least 20 or more games under their belts. Look at Clisby for instance, he was looking okay last year but has disappeared this year.

I still hold out some hope for Clisby.

Barry looked better last night. Hill's not a bad opponent to learn from...I thought he really got into the tempo of the game.

Imo, Casey is doing jack for development.