How upset will you be if we finish bottom

[Sir Why You Little 35,168]

yes...and what does that matter

Nearly everyone else accept the KPI's are not necessarily attached to our finishing position..You cant see that

it matters to me.

I understand your arguements. I just don't subscribe to them.

We have been down this road before with dire consequences.

I wish to take an alternative route.

[beelzebub 22,542]

it matters to me.

I understand your arguements. I just don't subscribe to them.

We have been down this road before with dire consequences.

I wish to take an alternative route.

It might be the same junction, but its the other road. That other direction takes us perpetually around the block. Where we're heading is different.It'll just take some reworking of the list and a season or two to get up to speed.

[sue 8,499]

It is continually surprising to me that some posters cannot see that trying to be bottom is not the same as listing what advantages might accrue to us if that happened. Nor that those who are not very upset by finishing last still want us to try as hard as possible to win every game.

[Sir Why You Little 35,168]

It might be the same junction, but its the other road. That other direction takes us perpetually around the block. Where we're heading is different.It'll just take some reworking of the list and a season or two to get up to speed.

and building Club & Player cofidence which will be a shite load easier to achieve if we can win some remaining games this year.

[beelzebub 22,542]

and building Club & Player cofidence which will be a shite load easier to achieve if we can win some remaining games this year.

You keep thinking that none of us actually want to win. We do. But what if they try and fail...and end up last ( I dont think we will 17th is my pick ) but even so it wont matter as long as they have a crack. Can you seriously suggest Roos wants to lose. That he would actually tank...or "list manage" to that effect ? This is the main reason it wont matter if we do spoon it.because the underlying approach is different, its just the result , or ladder betterment is denied us because weve been unable to finish off games. We just dont know how to win. This will take coaching.

If we try and fail...we've tried. It will be not trying that will irk many of us.

We might win one or two...who knows... but Im not about to slash my wrists over losses and ladder positions

edit...actually if I had to put money on it 16th

Edited August 8, 2014 by beelzebub

[Redleg 38,194]

It is continually surprising to me that some posters cannot see that trying to be bottom is not the same as listing what advantages might accrue to us if that happened. Nor that those who are not very upset by finishing last still want us to try as hard as possible to win every game.

Thank you.

[Sir Why You Little 35,168]

You keep thinking that none of us actually want to win. We do. But what if they try and fail...and end up last ( I dont think we will 17th is my pick ) but even so it wont matter as long as they have a crack. Can you seriously suggest Roos wants to lose. That he would actually tank...or "list manage" to that effect ? This is the main reason it wont matter if we do spoon it.because the underlying approach is different, its just the result , or ladder betterment is denied us because weve been unable to finish off games. We just dont know how to win. This will take coaching.

If we try and fail...we've tried. It will be not trying that will irk many of us.

We might win one or two...who knows... but Im not about to slash my wrists over losses and ladder positions

edit...actually if I had to put money on it 16th

i have never thought anyone at the MFC is tanking.

If we finish last i will be disgusted & livid at the players. Pure and simple.

They are on the same wages as The GF Sides.

[Redleg 38,194]

i have never thought anyone at the MFC is tanking.

If we finish last i will be disgusted & livid at the players. Pure and simple.

They are on the same wages as The GF Sides.

But someone has to finish last and there are a lot of reasons for that, including simply being not good enough to win enough games, or not being able to play your best side because of injuries.

[Sir Why You Little 35,168]

But someone has to finish last and there are a lot of reasons for that, including simply being not good enough to win enough games, or not being able to play your best side because of injuries.

yes yes i know all that. It's been on repeat since '07.

I think that is the main reason i will be disgusted & Livid. Which is why i voted 10.

[KingDingAling 3,656]

It is continually surprising to me that some posters cannot see that trying to be bottom is not the same as listing what advantages might accrue to us if that happened. Nor that those who are not very upset by finishing last still want us to try as hard as possible to win every game.

As soon as we cannot possibly make the finals, I could not care less where we end up.

[P-man 13,285]

It is continually surprising to me that some posters cannot see that trying to be bottom is not the same as listing what advantages might accrue to us if that happened. Nor that those who are not very upset by finishing last still want us to try as hard as possible to win every game.

That's the thing though. There's a difference between "not very upset" and point blank not caring.

If you DO NOT CARE about finishing dead last, then you can spin it any way you like, but there is an argument that the club has beaten a lot of the fighting spirit out of you.

[beelzebub 22,542]

That's the thing though. There's a difference between "not very upset" and point blank not caring.

If you DO NOT CARE about finishing dead last, then you can spin it any way you like, but there is an argument that the club has beaten a lot of the fighting spirit out of you.

and theres an argument that there are things to worry over and things you dont.

[Sir Why You Little 35,168]

That's the thing though. There's a difference between "not very upset" and point blank not caring.

If you DO NOT CARE about finishing dead last, then you can spin it any way you like, but there is an argument that the club has beaten a lot of the fighting spirit out of you.

yes. Many now expect to lose & can even see improvement within the loss. Until we are united as a club & supporters to not accept even a fighting loss then the cycle will continue.

But i still find " i don't care" (and that is what it says) hard to swallow leading the poll.

[P-man 13,285]

and theres an argument that there are things to worry over and things you dont.

There's a difference between "worrying" about it and caring about it were it to eventuate.

I'm not sitting awake at night dreading a wooden spoon. Partly cause there's a very real chance of it happening and it's out of my control so it's a waste of energy.

But if we get it, sure, I'll be a bit annoyed that the MFC gets chalked up in the history books as the joke of the competition for another year.

Now let's talk about all those tasty picks we could get. Cause that mentality has served us real well up until now.

[beelzebub 22,542]

ohhhh...i get it...its all about being 16th or 17th....ahhhhhhhhh

because that makes all the difference..

Sorry , just not used to these loft ambitions !!

sarcasm aside ( its hard )

worry..care...they are actually synonymous

We'll only get chalked up as a joke again if we dont get a wiggle on next year. Anyone with an ounce of perception knows we have a troubled and limited ( ability wise ) list.

Theres a difference also between 'talking up' the picks and the acknowledgement that they have currency. I dont think we're chasing them ( as in the past ) but if we get them well it has a power to augment our ability to get better players to the club.

I tell you what...I'll up the ante... not only do I not care about being last ( if that were to happen ) but Im not concerned as to results..... hang on...someone else has that covered !!

[Deecisive 1,665]

I think its fair to say that almost all melbourne supporters if not all wish melbourne football club to win every game they can, every week. Even if we did win another 2 games that does not stop the possibility that GWS, Saints and Bears etc could also win more games against others and we could have 6 wins and still finish last. At the end of round 23 we will be someone near or at the bottom of the ladder. I accept it for what it is but will reflect on the successes we have had in both increase in the number of wins, the reduced number of thrashings we have had to endure, and the fact that we may get greater draft picks and even the likely list clean out etc.

[P-man 13,285]

I'm not silly (those snickering, be quiet), I appreciate there are greater considerations than final ladder position. Arguably much greater.

I also would never accuse someone who voted 0 as not caring about the club, cause that is not just stupid, it's insulting.

But I cannot understand the thought process in voting 0. I mean geeze, at least vote 1. It's a competition after all, isn't it?

[rpfc 27,660]

I'm not silly (those snickering, be quiet), I appreciate there are greater considerations than final ladder position. Arguably much greater.

I also would never accuse someone who voted 0 as not caring about the club, cause that is not just stupid, it's insulting.

But I cannot understand the thought process in voting 0. I mean geeze, at least vote 1. It's a competition after all, isn't it?

Is it?

[P-man 13,285]

Is it?

Feeing cryptic are we mate?

Yes, it is. Perhaps not a competitive one.

With Roos on board and wins now a realistic outcome, I'm still focused on getting the most out of rest of the season. That includes performance AND results, and by association, ladder position.

I still care about the lot. It would admittedly be very handy if I didn't.

[beelzebub 22,542]

ahh cryptic...

hmm a competition, but not a competitive one.

That'll keep me occupied for a while...

[sue 8,499]

I think some are reading too much into the words 'I don't care'. I expect many who voted that way just wanted to indicate they don't think ladder position matters compared to other things. eg on the one hand the improvements we have seen, on the other the randomness of another bottom team fluking a win when we didn't.

Personally I'm happy for other teams and supporters to think we are the pits if they are silly enough to base that on being on the bottom of the ladder, because with a bit more skill, some new players and some luck with injuries (like not losing our main forwards all year) and luck in games, we may sneak up and surprise them soon.

[daisycutter 28,709]

so bb, you really do care, but you are saying there is a silver lining to it after all the care subsides

seems to me this thread has become so semantic that i don't care for this thread

[beelzebub 22,542]

no i dont Dc last, next to last its irrelevant really.. No one even remembers who comes second ffs

There are Premiers...and everyone else

[Macca 16,174]

Many of those who voted in the 1-3 category don't seem to care whether we get the spoon or not but ... many of them do seem to care about being better placed in the draft. The lure of the the no.1 pick is always strong so let's not disguise that fact. Coupled with that is the possible Frawley compensation (if he leaves) which could yield us the no.2 pick as well (if we finish bottom) We'd have some very strong bargaining power if the above were to happen.

Those who voted at the opposite end of the scale "generally" aren't fussed about the better placed draft picks and are more concerned about the repercussions of winning the spoon. So, it's not a black & white argument, it's more complex than that.

There is a bigger picture at stake though ... sponsors, foundation heroes, fixturing, reserved seating sales, membership, our ability to trade for quality footballers, prime time games, the corporate dollar, gate receipts, crowd numbers etc etc can all be adversely effected by winning a spoon. 3 more wins and those areas are less effected. Fixturing remains a huge issue for our club and the club can't make big dollars if we're continually going to have to play 6-8 home games against interstate sides

We've recently seen McLachlan come out and say that the league wants to do something about maximising crowds with better fixturing - it would be nice to be able to say that we'd definitely be a part of that vision. Jackson would much prefer to be better armed (when meeting with the AFL) with say, 7 wins, rather than a bottom placed finish.

I strongly believe that we can finish the season off well and we're a chance to win any or all of our last 3 games. Today is a big ask but I'll be disappointed if we don't take it right up to the Hawks.

Edited August 9, 2014 by Macca

[sue 8,499]

..

My beef with those who voted 1-3 is that they need to at least acknowledge that there is a bigger picture at stake ... sponsors, foundation heroes, fixturing, reserved seating sales, membership, prime time games, the corporate dollar, gate receipts, crowd numbers etc etc can all be adversely effected by winning a spoon.

...

And please, read my post carefully. I haven't tarred everyone with the same brush so don't take offence.

I think a number of 1-3 voters did acknowledge all that. I see the point but I don't think being actual bottom has much effect on that. Being pathetic in the bottom 2 to 4 is sufficient for all that.

Edited August 9, 2014 by sue