Post Match Discussion - Round 12

[Earl Hood 6,086]

That is a surprise, but there you go. FWIW I thought that Pedo would struggle in the ruck and rob us of our most effective key forward. Just goes to show we are all human ...

Whoops looks like another sub stuff up. They did not announce it at the MCG so was wondering who was off when JKH missed a mark down back, late in the third. Looked around and realised Jamar wasn't there. At that stage I thought big Max was costing us with his lack of mobility. He did work his way back into the game but I still don't believe we can carry him in any other role than ruck.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

There was nothing wrong with Jamar.

Roos said on 360 they were debating in the box for about 10m deciding who to sub and thought Gawn would be fresher as he didn't ruck as much as Jamar. Roos said like the Tyson sub this was a mistake. He also said he hates the sub rule and that they needed to sub someone off cause u can't leave JKH on the bench for 4 qrts.

Easily Roosey's worst call so far this year along with ripping the Jones boy out of the middle and putting him down forward for the opening 10 to 15 minutes of the 3rd quarter (if my memory serves me correct... might have been the last) against the Doggies when we were only a few points down and Jones our best clearance winner to that point (and for the entire season to that point). The Doggies (eg, Cooney et al) jumped on it...won the first few clearances, kicked the first 1 or 2 goals and went on to lead for the rest of the match and win from there.

To sub our best ruckman at such a crucial stage of the game when we still had a chance was lunacy. To then allow JKH to wander off the bench and into our backline was the other fail IMO. To green to be playing a role down back at such a crucial stage at this point in his career. If he did it against orders... then it's all on JKH and might have been why he copped a slight barrage at 3 quarter time. If not Roos shld look in the mirror and bake himself on the above.

Significant progress so far which outweighs the above although i cant see us winning against anyone but the bottom dwellers with the current list, crappy i50 delivery, continual clangers straight back to the opposition, inability to hurt opponents on the rebound and present forward line up.

Edited June 9, 2014 by Rusty Nails

[Deecisive 1,709]

Today was another step in our road back to playing good football. We were competitive for most of the game again against a top 4 side. We are very much still a work in progress and have a considerable amount of upside, so while I am disappointed with a number of aspects from todays game I am very pleased with the direction the club is going and the effort the players are putting in.

[Deecisive 1,709]

Gawn did a pretty good palm down that resulted in a goal just before the end of the 3rd quarter which may have given him the nod over jamar.

[JimmyNP 174]

Jesus, some people are already getting there knickers in a knot about Roosy and his gameplan.

Did you see that same defensiveness against Carlton and Richmond? He went ultra defensive today, because if he instructed the side to go all out attacking, we would have got opened up the other way and scored heavily against their midfield.

9 points down going into the fourth. We kick that goal, and it's a 3 point game. Bloke is a genius. The team Collingwood put out their today should have flogged our mob based on the last couple of years. I can guarantee you if Neeld was in charge, that game would have been a hammering.

Of course as a side where we simply do not have the cattle to beat the best teams in the comp, he is going to go defensive, make it a scrap, and try and steal a win in the last quarter.

Unfortunately that didn't happen, and the terrible ball going inside 50 didn't help our cause.

Next week against Essendon you will see a more attacking football side. Mark my words.

[DemonOX 8,791]

Whoops looks like another sub stuff up. They did not announce it at the MCG so was wondering who was off when JKH missed a mark down back, late in the third.

That was another thing Roos discussed on 360 in that he didn't give JKH a "bake" as some have suggested in the media but asked him why was he in the back line. When he went on he was supposed to be in the forward line. When Robbo asked what JKH response was Roos said "he said nothing" which was smart and we will catch up during the week and he will tell me why. They were all laughing at this point.

I can c why the players love playing for Roos.

[Satan 2,871]

Saw the game from ground level a view a rarely I see from

Our 3 goals were dissapointing

We were never able to get the ball to 20 metres of the goals. We either went wide and reduced the angle or kicked from too far out. The kick from the centre square let us down. Not having Clark and Hogan makes us too Dawes conscious . Pederson led up well and took plenty of good marks. Problem was we had no one at CHF for the important kick. We had no small forwards for foward tackling and there were too many easy rebounds

Roos was upset at JKH for being in the backline and not the fwd line at the end of quarter.

Our mids did ok, jones, vince cross, . Tyson had the second best tagger in the business after crowley so having a down game was not surprising.

I thought a defence did ok despite too many turnovers. Our skills are better than last 3 years .

It was not a pretty match to watch but if Roos intention was to play dour football and minimize the scoreboard damage it is working. If we can get the defence right than other parts of the game should improve.

best for us, jones. dunn, pederson, cross, vince

[baysidedave 246]

Roos said it took ages to work out who to sub, Jamar got subbed because wanted a small bloke who can score

[Tony Tea 2,809]

We were okay today. Nothing went our way. The Muppets butchered us. But we kept at it. The biggest problem was turning defence into attack. Too often we came through the centre and had no one to kick it to because we had overcommitted to defence. And that's why we kept turning it over - we had too few targets to kick it to. We need to find a way to get players in attacking positions without compromising our defence.

[Nasher 33,613]

Jesus, some people are already getting there knickers in a knot about Roosy and his gameplan.

Did you see that same defensiveness against Carlton and Richmond? He went ultra defensive today, because if he instructed the side to go all out attacking, we would have got opened up the other way and scored heavily against their midfield.

9 points down going into the fourth. We kick that goal, and it's a 3 point game. Bloke is a genius. The team Collingwood put out their today should have flogged our mob based on the last couple of years. I can guarantee you if Neeld was in charge, that game would have been a hammering.

Of course as a side where we simply do not have the cattle to beat the best teams in the comp, he is going to go defensive, make it a scrap, and try and steal a win in the last quarter.

Unfortunately that didn't happen, and the terrible ball going inside 50 didn't help our cause.

Next week against Essendon you will see a more attacking football side. Mark my words.

I don't think it was even that we were that defensive - our tackling was not as good as it has been and we could hardly ever put pressure on to keep the ball in our forward 50 (too many talls?). Roos mentioned this in his presser - he also raised the fact that our forays forward were always fast when they should have been slow and slow when they should have been fast. We also gave them a heck of a lot of the footy in general play.

I don't think it was the defensive mindset that hurt, it was just the players execution on the day. I don't know if it's young players fatiguing, players overawed by the occasion, or just the difference in class between the two sides, but I certainly don't blame the game plan.

[What 18,810]

Paul Roos was severely outcoached by Buckley

[chook fowler 19,458]

Paul Roos was severely outcoached by Buckley

Not sure that's true. He didn't butcher the ball - the players did.

[Redleg 40,895]

Agreed, there was a lack of balance in the team selected and this was obvious before the first bounce.

Agree.

My son was saying this on the way to the game. He was scared that their back flankers would just scoop up the crumbs and continually set up their forwards. That is what they did time and time again.

Selection of the team probably started the rot.

[Axis of Bob 11,788]

Paul Roos was severely outcoached by Buckley

Why? Back up your claim.

[Pennant St Dee 13,171]

I'm impatient for real effort and really hurting a top team.

Regardless of your glowing narrative, one team out there today was cruising....I'm sick of 'good efforts.'

Btw, I don't mind the way it's unfolding.

That's carp, they were not cruising had they been, we would have done them quite easily. We are not a great side but we are hard to play against, we just kill games but maybe you are right and all the expert ex-players singing this same tune are wrong.

They were very good at running hard and putting pressure on not allowing us any easy ball, they didn't mind flooding their defensive 50 either to prevent us switching the play holding the ball then delivering quickly inside 50 to space.

Give some credit where it is due, Collingwood beat us by polish and having a bit more midfield depth than we did, Cross, Vince, Bail and Jetta were all given negating roles and all did well. That is why Pendlebury, Beams, Elliot and Lumumba weren't as effective as they usually were

The better side won yes but they earned it

[Deecisive 1,709]

The league is trying to think up ways of evening up the competition, how about this idea, get the umpires to pay frees when they are there and not to decide before on hand who is or is not guilty based on what players are involved in a wrestle or scuffle. Its not just the decisions we didnt get i.e. seedsman taking a couple of bounces and getting tacked and doing a 360 before be breaks out of the tackle not holding the ball, dunn being thrown around all day by cloke, etc.. its also the stupid ones against us they paid against us, i.e. Bails kick under pressure in the first quarter the scooted along the boundary and over, the salem holding the ball, the Jack watts holding the ball when he tried to handpass and when it dropped tried to kick it. Giving all sides a chance to win fair and square will do more to get the lower clubs financial and supported.

[Go the Biff 3,414]

After today, I'm pretty confident we can beat the red & black goat rooters next week

We lacked run today but we also lacked space

Not enough credit is being given on here to Collingwood's defensive intent and structures. They were outstanding

[Adam The God 30,220]

Agree.

My son was saying this on the way to the game. He was scared that their back flankers would just scoop up the crumbs and continually set up their forwards. That is what they did time and time again.

Selection of the team probably started the rot.

Spot on, Redleg. That's why I thought the only change to be made would/should have been Dawes for Gawn. Was always going to bite us in the arse.

[P-man 13,366]

Why? Back up your claim.

Oh boy, this should be good.

[45HG 1,539]

Our ball use/movement around forward 50 killed us today.

[What 18,810]

Why? Back up your claim.

HE turned Roos gameplan around on him

They choked us to death

Roos had zero answers for the Pies presssure and we had no direction going forward

Buckley even said in the presser he was waiting for Melbourne to try and win it in the last quarter and was shocked we continued to be so slow and methodical

Even the opposition coach knew what we needed to do to have a chance and waited for it come which it never did

Roos was outcoached big time

Edited June 9, 2014 by hogans_heroes

[Grapeviney 9,717]

Actually thought our field kicking was quite good today, we hit plenty of targets with 25m and 30m kicks.

In contrast, the delivery inside 50 was terrible, lost count the number of times we kicked it straight to them.

[TGR 1,367]

Well, that was like pulling teeth...

Just a huge imbalance in defending and attacking, which is not all bad, you want a well drilled defensive first and foremost.

But basically no classy forward thrusts for the whole game.

We lack a dashing HBF with foot skills, that has to be our priority post-season.

I was pleased with the first half, expected the shackles to be released at some point but it never came. Easier said than done against a drilled side like Collingwood.

Tyson had his worst game for the year.

Garland had his worst game ever.

Viney is a bull but his kicking was shocking.

JKH and Salem looked a bit lost.

Why Salem wasn't subbed off I'd love to know. He offered nothing and Jamar was having a great game. Once he went off they got an easy ride from the clearances.

Dumb move. Same as last weeks sub. Roosy, I love ya, but stop [censored] up the subs.

Jones, Dunn, Vince Jamar and Cross led really well. They all stood up and played really well.

Was happy with Jetta yet again and I think there's no doubt he's bonafide now.

Pederson was epic.

Just need some leading forwards that kick goals, and some class to stick it down their throats and we'll go alright.

Let's smash Essendon.

"We lack a dashing HBF with foot skills, that has to be our priority post-season."

That was the line. Full stop.

Their half-backs took us on with dash, and made it easier for their forwards, while our defenders defended well.

Our rebound was too safe; but if you don't have the dash and run'n'carry of Harry-O/Seedsman, well it is best to play safe.

I would have got JKH on at half-time in fact…and taken Gawn off before Jamar; but Roos said Gawn had more in the tank.

Simpletons will look at the scoreboard and tutt-tutt the 3 goals, but they have to look deeper, and one day, they might.

I'm not slitting my wrists over today.

[beelzebub 23,347]

Why? Back up your claim.

He wasnt. he didnt have the ammo in the end

[P-man 13,366]

Mixed emotions about this game, but taking a deep breath I'm not overly disappointed. Realistically the only way to pull it off against a top four side was to lock it down and then hope it was close enough at the final change to pinch it. It was a defensive scrap and to keep Collingwood to their lowest winning score in 20 years is no small feat.

Even with taking safer options there was a lot of turnovers. Attempting to take the game on in the early stages and this would have been killed off as a contest with a blowout on the cards. That said, the ball movement was unnecessarily slow at times, and it seemed the forward line was static for the majority of the game. Entries were also very poor which was very disappointing on the back of recent performances.

Maggots killed us but in the scheme of things, the far better side won. Pies were too good in all areas, and they have struck gold with Frost and Langdon down back.

Frawley I believe is probably gone. He again looked pretty disinterested and his defensive efforts, or lack thereof, stood out.

Edited June 9, 2014 by P-man