Coburg Lions v Casey Scorpions

[P-man 13,366]

Obviously and as per the norm, you wilfully misinterpreted what I post, I have criticised the MFC players who didn't perform in the second half of the game that is supposedly the subject of this post, couldn't quite grasp that then, out of character for me, ruin your whole tirade.

I posted that I agreed with what Welsh said, these are players that are supposed to be interested in playing for the AFL side so therefore in the second half you would expect them to lift and dominate a team that they had dominated for a half, they didn't, the lack of grunt in the last quarter really disappointed me,

I even told Jordie McKenzie to his face last night on how disappointed I was with the 'team' effort in the last quarter, but i am actually looking forward to seeing Brett Allison's take on the game, perhaps I got it wrong

Let me think "list clogging spud' oh that's right it is a constructive criticism

Except, that isn't what Welsh said. His wording was of a ridiculing nature and points towards what others have said in questioning his coaching methods. It's just foolish to come out and publicly ridicule players wanting to get back into the senior side. If reports of his 3/4 address are correct, then he has a lot to learn about how to motivate people.

Please don't sit here and pretend like you don't attack posters who are critical of individuals. No matter how reasonable, you are the attack dog insinuating that the poster is either irrational or naive. You do it constantly and despite repeated attempts from numerous posters to ask you to check yourself, you keep doing it.

I can't be bothered anymore. You're either too stubborn or too light on upstairs to reflect on your own conduct here.

[Machsy 2,858]

Oh look another poster, hiding behind a keyboard taking a potshot, how very very brave of you, anything constructive towards the topic, on past history probably not

You've lost the plot.

Always been teetering on the brink, but this is ballsdeep mental.

Sit a few plays out, you'll be better for it.

[Satyriconhome 10,742]

Except, that isn't what Welsh said. His wording was of a ridiculing nature and points towards what others have said in questioning his coaching methods. It's just foolish to come out and publicly ridicule players wanting to get back into the senior side. If reports of his 3/4 address are correct, then he has a lot to learn about how to motivate people.

Please don't sit here and pretend like you don't attack posters who are critical of individuals. No matter how reasonable, you are the attack dog insinuating that the poster is either irrational or naive. You do it constantly and despite repeated attempts from numerous posters to ask you to check yourself, you keep doing it.

I can't be bothered anymore. You're either too stubborn or too light on upstairs to reflect on your own conduct here.

All about me again, you are a poster that the majority are not fond of actually, there are only about 5 or 6 of your select group who add nothing to topics, they just enjoy the sport of attacking other posts, keep telling your small army, have a go at me and I will fight back, which bit don't you get, are you "person' enough (have to be pc not sure who you are hiding behind a nickname) to admit you were wrong in your emphatic statement that I don't criticise

Welsh wasn't trying to 'motivate' obviously he has MFC players telling him that they should be in the AFL side, otherwise he wouldn't have said it, he wanted them to prove to him that they really wanted to, you expect a coach to be happy when a team coughs up a 30 point lead through lack of effort, not skill

[ManDee 7,127]

Except, that isn't what Welsh said. His wording was of a ridiculing nature and points towards what others have said in questioning his coaching methods. It's just foolish to come out and publicly ridicule players wanting to get back into the senior side. If reports of his 3/4 address are correct, then he has a lot to learn about how to motivate people.

Please don't sit here and pretend like you don't attack posters who are critical of individuals. No matter how reasonable, you are the attack dog insinuating that the poster is either irrational or naive. You do it constantly and despite repeated attempts from numerous posters to ask you to check yourself, you keep doing it.

I can't be bothered anymore. You're either too stubborn or too light on upstairs to reflect on your own conduct here.

I read these lovers spats and quietly laugh to myself.

But seriously PMan you base your comments about Welsch on hearsay. Saty was there and I think he has the moral high ground in this spat. It is not only what is said but how it was said. As for being critical of players I think Saty leans toward feint praise.

[Machsy 2,858]

I read these lovers spats and quietly laugh to myself.

But seriously PMan you base your comments about Welsch on hearsay. Saty was there and I think he has the moral high ground in this spat. It is not only what is said but how it was said. As for being critical of players I think Saty leans toward feint praise.

Wait a minute.

Saty was at the match.

He didn't say he heard the address and it was reported incorrectly.

I believe Welsh when he (reportedly) said the MFC players weren't up to standard.

That's not the issue being debated.

[Satyriconhome 10,742]

Wait a minute.

Saty was at the match.

He didn't say he heard the address and it was reported incorrectly.

I believe Welsh when he (reportedly) said the MFC players weren't up to standard.

That's not the issue being debated.

It wasn't reported incorrectly, I was stood about a metre and a half from it, also Jordie McKenzie's quote from the post match address in the dressing room was he survived - just

[Machsy 2,858]

It wasn't reported incorrectly, I was stood about a metre and a half from it, also Jordie McKenzie's quote from the post match address in the dressing room was he survived - just

I don't understand what you're saying about McKenzie, but it's not the point.

The Casey coach shouldn't be making comments like that to the media, nor speaking to the players in such a manner.

You might think it's ok.

I don't.

And the more I come to know about Welsh, the more I think he is a counterproductive influence and want him gone.

Just my opinion.

[Satyriconhome 10,742]

I don't understand what you're saying about McKenzie, but it's not the point.

The Casey coach shouldn't be making comments like that to the media, nor speaking to the players in such a manner.

You might think it's ok.

I don't.

And the more I come to know about Welsh, the more I think he is a counterproductive influence and want him gone.

Just my opinion.

Yes but what do you know about Welsh, apart from a lot of the heresay posted on here? I would be interesed to know what you are basing your opinion on

Welsh's coaching mantra is based on DI's defensive involvements and pressure acts, so same page as Roos, his frustration comes from the week previous against the Northern Blues (so Carlton AFL listed players in the side) Casey had gutsed out a hard fought win in atrocious conditions, this week with only two changes to the side in Toumpas and Riley, the side blew a 30 point lead to a standalone VFL side, not through lack of skill but effort

Edited May 20, 2014 by Satyriconhome

[P-man 13,366]

I read these lovers spats and quietly laugh to myself.

But seriously PMan you base your comments about Welsch on hearsay. Saty was there and I think he has the moral high ground in this spat. It is not only what is said but how it was said. As for being critical of players I think Saty leans toward feint praise.

Strange comment. I'm basing on Welsh's direct quotes in the media. That's not hearsay.

No more lovers tiffs. I'm done with Saty. Doesn't get it, never will, and will never be corrected.

I will look forward to his training reports as always, and turn a blind eye to his other contributions. Not worth these derailments. I am guilty of reacting so I will stop doing that.

[Satyriconhome 10,742]

Strange comment. I'm basing on Welsh's direct quotes in the media. That's not hearsay.

No more lovers tiffs. I'm done with Saty. Doesn't get it, never will, and will never be corrected.

I will look forward to his training reports as always, and turn a blind eye to his other contributions. Not worth these derailments. I am guilty of reacting so I will stop doing that.

How do I correct my opinion?....do you correct yours?.....I rest my case

[ManDee 7,127]

Strange comment. I'm basing on Welsh's direct quotes in the media. That's not hearsay.

No more lovers tiffs. I'm done with Saty. Doesn't get it, never will, and will never be corrected.

I will look forward to his training reports as always, and turn a blind eye to his other contributions. Not worth these derailments. I am guilty of reacting so I will stop doing that.

Well that is heresay I'm afraid.

Did you here him say it? If so, not heresay.

If it was reported that he said..... that is heresay.

Sadly direct quotes in the media gives little or no weight.

My personal experience with media reporting is that they are often inaccurate, incomplete or fallacious. (Think Damian Barrett)

Edit: Add - often & Damian Barrett

Edited May 20, 2014 by ManDee

[old dee 23,782]

Well that is heresay I'm afraid.

Did you here him say it? If so, not heresay.

If it was reported that he said..... that is heresay.

Sadly direct quotes in the media gives little or no weight.

My personal experience with media reporting is that they are often inaccurate, incomplete or fallacious.

Edit: Add - often

Unfortunately this is correct ManDee

The media now does not have the time, personnel or desire to get to matches at this level and report the actual.

When you see a photo of MFC Players and they cannot identify the three players in the shot and call one X you know accuracy is not their first concern.

Edited May 20, 2014 by old dee

[Mad_Melbourne 877]

Welsh's coaching mantra is based on DI's defensive involvements and pressure acts, so same page as Roos, his frustration comes from the week previous against the Northern Blues (so Carlton AFL listed players in the side) Casey had gutsed out a hard fought win in atrocious conditions, this week with only two changes to the side in Toumpas and Riley, the side blew a 30 point lead to a standalone VFL side, not through lack of skill but effort

if a coach didnt have an emphasis on this, they would not get a coaching job anywhere

[P-man 13,366]

Well that is heresay I'm afraid.

Did you here him say it? If so, not heresay.

If it was reported that he said..... that is heresay.

Sadly direct quotes in the media gives little or no weight.

My personal experience with media reporting is that they are often inaccurate, incomplete or fallacious.

Edit: Add - often

Fair comment.

There is however what he was quoted as saying, and his 3/4 address. I am only judging on the former, with merely referral to the latter based on what the majority observed.

But you're right in that it is under the assumption those quotes are accurate.

[ManDee 7,127]

Fair comment.

There is however what he was quoted as saying, and his 3/4 address. I am only judging on the former, with merely referral to the latter based on what the majority observed.

But you're right in that it is under the assumption those quotes are accurate.

P-man, as I said earlier it is not only what is said but how it is said.

I have a dear friend that I call "old fossil" it is said with affection and respect. If it was reported that I called my mate an old fossil it would appear to be disrespectful.

I am very skeptical about what I read & hear in the media, and to have a strong opinion based solely on media reporting is hazardous in my opinion.

Edit- add solely

Edited May 20, 2014 by ManDee

[Satyriconhome 10,742]

P-man, as I said earlier it is not only what is said but how it is said.

I have a dear friend that I call "old fossil" it is said with affection and respect. If it was reported that I called my mate an old fossil it would appear to be disrespectful.

I am very skeptical about what I read & hear in the media, and to have a strong opinion based on media reporting is hazardous in my opinion.

Careful P-man will want you to correct your opinion, especially if it doesn't agree with his, I am with you

[P-man 13,366]

True. On purely face value, I don't agree with the comments at all. But I take into account what you've said. Especially with the AFL media.

[dee-luded 2,959]

I was there Saty and my take was completely different. I reckon Blease has perfected the "Adem Yze" run round the back and call for the easy ball and in the first half did this repeatedly to receive "unearned" possessions. He then tried to dazzle with every disposal rather than taking the first and simple option. FWIW I can't see him playing senior footy whilst he does that unless he's under specific instructions from the coaches to play like that. The Roos game plan is built around winning contested possessions. I thought he was a lot better in the second half where he did compete more and won more of his own ball. Allisons report will be interesting.

I thought Jordie was clearly one of the best on the ground and I think of his 35 possessions most were in contested situations and most would have been handballs. Again the stats will verify this. His disposal was generally good but he still doesn't seem to find easy ball. That he wasn't named in the best was strange, he was clearly better than others who were.

I listened to Walsh's three quarter time address and shook my head. I've been going to VFL matches for some time and listed to a number of addresses and haven't heard one like it. I don't profess to be an expert by any means but it didn't inspire me.

if Bleasy is doing this then he doesn't want an AFL career, becausee the whole game now is more honest & based around the ability to win your own footy when required, & to play team footy.

[dee-luded 2,959]

I was there Saty and my take was completely different. I reckon Blease has perfected the "Adem Yze" run round the back and call for the easy ball and in the first half did this repeatedly to receive "unearned" possessions. He then tried to dazzle with every disposal rather than taking the first and simple option. FWIW I can't see him playing senior footy whilst he does that unless he's under specific instructions from the coaches to play like that. The Roos game plan is built around winning contested possessions. I thought he was a lot better in the second half where he did compete more and won more of his own ball. Allisons report will be interesting.

I thought Jordie was clearly one of the best on the ground and I think of his 35 possessions most were in contested situations and most would have been handballs. Again the stats will verify this. His disposal was generally good but he still doesn't seem to find easy ball. That he wasn't named in the best was strange, he was clearly better than others who were.

I listened to Walsh's three quarter time address and shook my head. I've been going to VFL matches for some time and listed to a number of addresses and haven't heard one like it. I don't profess to be an expert by any means but it didn't inspire me.

lets get Ryan O'Keeffe interested in coming over, one season playing teaching/onfield leader, in the AFL/VFL, then he may be interested in some further work.

Edited May 20, 2014 by dee-luded

[KingDingAling 3,752]

lets get Ryan O'Keeffe interested in coming over, one season playing teaching/onfield leader, in the AFL/VFL, then he may be interested in some further work.

Great idea. O'Keefe would be a great get, I think he still has a couple years left in him.

In terms of professional footballers, there is no better teachers than Cross and O'Keefe.

I once heard that Daniel Cross used to keep footballs in his cupboards around the house - so when he opens them, he has to always be sharp.

That is going above and beyond, that is the type of guy I want around the club.

As for O'Keefe, apparently he has lived clean for nearly a decade - Ablett like clean - eating the right things, not drinking, doing the one percenters.

That is the type of guy I want our young blokes to learn from.

The more leaders helping Nathan Jones - the better he is getting, the better those around him are getting.

[dazzledavey36 54,441]

Great idea. O'Keefe would be a great get, I think he still has a couple years left in him.

In terms of professional footballers, there is no better teachers than Cross and O'Keefe.

I once heard that Daniel Cross used to keep footballs in his cupboards around the house - so when he opens them, he has to always be sharp.

That is going above and beyond, that is the type of guy I want around the club.

As for O'Keefe, apparently he has lived clean for nearly a decade - Ablett like clean - eating the right things, not drinking, doing the one percenters.

That is the type of guy I want our young blokes to learn from.

The more leaders helping Nathan Jones - the better he is getting, the better those around him are getting.

I made a thread about him awhile ago in the thought of bringing him over to the dees for a year. Seriously dedicated professional in terms of dieting and preperation. Would be on par with Crossy and we have already seen what he has done to the likes of Jones, Tyson, JKH, Viney etc.

[jazza 1,323]

Some may say he was being harsh but fair, although I think it's a bit rich to put all the blame squarely on the MFC listed players and publicly putting words in their mouths.

I think we've seen with Roos, and a timely reminder in the form of Hafey's passing, that being a hardass DH might get you far, but chances are that supportive constructive feedback and encouragement will get you a lot further.

What were Welsh's credentials as a player again?

what words did HE put in their mouths?

what was wrong about his 3/4 address?

[Machsy 2,858]

what words did HE put in their mouths?

what was wrong about his 3/4 address?

You tell me.

[jazza 1,323]

what words did HE put in their mouths?

what was wrong about his 3/4 address?

You tell me.

just asking a question about your post.

dont get your knickers in a knot .

[Arrow 1,257]

Yesterday night I ran into a player who played in the game against Coburg.
Having read what Welsh supposedly said, I asked him if he rated Welsh as a coach.

He said 'yeah, great coach and even better bloke.'

I was surprised and obviously by my look he asked me why I had asked.

I responded with the remarks that were reported and whether they were on the mark.

He went on to tell me that it was far from how the post match address went.

It was clear possession wise that MFC players are the most important figures at Casey, and most influential in winning games, however on the weekend they produced 27 tackles between them I'm led to believe. 6 by Jordie McKenzie.

Casey are in a development year and lost 3 of their best 4 players to other VFL/EFL clubs and they were the lynch-pin to the club. Everyone down there understands that, as do the Melbourne coaching staff he explained.

He said the only remark Welsh made re. Demons players after game was that during the week he had players ask him what they were doing that was preventing them from playing AFL.. He said look at Paul's gameplan.. You need to be defensive orientated or you will not get a game.
The listed player than produced 27 tackles between them, which defensively is appalling. I can't remember if there was a remark to those effects in his interview but it sounds to me like Welsh is dead-set on the money. Don't head back to Casey padding your stats. Play AFL style footy or else you won't get picked up..

Developing year of not half a team of listed footballers should not lose to a first year standalone side in Coburg. If he's not [censored] off at that as a coach, he never will be.

I don't know Rohan personally, nor do I have any involvement with Casey whatsoever, but the last 5 pages have been incredibly slanderous based on nothing but media hearsay. Whether he is a good coach or not will be assessed at the end of the year, but let's put this bad coach, bad bloke mantra away for the remaining 3 months because it's simply not correct.