Match Preview and Team Selection - round 7

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

Why do people get bagged for offering opinions on a website forum? Beggars belief really. It would be a mind-numbing forum if all we did was toe the 'party' line.

[binman 41,906]

Why do people get bagged for offering opinions on a website forum? Beggars belief really. It would be a mind-numbing forum if all we did was toe the 'party' line.

Who asked you

(insert emoticon here)

[Elusive Tunbridge 795]

Why do people get bagged for offering opinions on a website forum?

You're perfectly free to offer any opinion that's not critical of Paul Roos. In whom we trust.

[nutbean 8,838]

Why do people get bagged for offering opinions on a website forum? Beggars belief really. It would be a mind-numbing forum if all we did was toe the 'party' line.

You will find that the people who get bagged out (constantly) are posters whose opinions have little substance or thought behind them. I do not always agree with the likes of RPFC, Hardtack, Daisycutter or Old Dee to name but four but you rarely find them giving opinions without any thought put behind them. I actually disagree with quite a lot of Machsy's posts but he backs up his opinions with examples of what he considers gives weight to his opinions.

I try not to but I cannot help but poke fun at opinions such as "any other club would have dropped Watts" or " the fitness team should be sack" - these are casting opinions with no weight and no possible way of measuring or even debating.

BTW - I think that Watts would be a 100 goal a season goalkicker if he was at Hawthorn.

( just for differentiation purposes - Watts should be dropped ? No problem debating that opinion. Any other team would have dropped Watts and you know it - wtf ?)

Edited May 2, 2014 by nutbean

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

thanks guys. Just thought I ask. Is that permitted?

[nutbean 8,838]

thanks guys. Just thought I ask. Is that permitted?

people have debated with you but do you feel you have been bagged out ?

[Satyriconhome 10,339]

thanks guys. Just thought I ask. Is that permitted?

Precious?

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

people have debated with you but do you feel you have been bagged out ?

Not at all. I big enough and ugly enough to wear criticism. But some have expressed views that as much as they would love to see JW live up to his potential he has not. Those people who have expressed such views are accused by some of writing opinions which are tantamount to treachery.

[DemonOX 8,682]

When was the last time a Demons team had no changes?

I don't think it's through choice cudi but more no one is putting their had up in the reserves.

[old dee 23,459]

Not at all. I big enough and ugly enough to wear criticism. But some have expressed views that as much as they would love to see JW live up to his potential he has not. Those people who have expressed such views are accused by some of writing opinions which are tantamount to treachery.

The only thing I object to iv'a is personal abuse.

Peoples opinions don't worry me after all they are just opinions and I come on here for that exact reason to hear other views.

[Satyriconhome 10,339]

I think Saty asked him at training what he need to do - and the answer was - be more of a link player and kick goals. He can tag but needs more involvement - and I suspect that means "clean" involvement. Jordies problem is that he is not a two way runner. He has his good days and bad days defensively shutting down players but he doesn't spread and find easy uncontested ball when we are in possession.

I did, OD doesn't think much of many players,but Jordie will be ok, he has gone back to Casey to work on his shortcomings, the gist of original conversation was he tended to just negate and handball, he needs to learn to spread and kick, obviously Roos didn't like what he did when he played and back he goes, I have faith now that if he doesn't change then he won't be at the Club, another player whose development died in the last few years, but at least they are being developed again now

Allison's comments on last weekend show he still has some work to do

Jordie McKenzie: Jordie played on ball. He had 29 disposals and played a solid game. He worked hard in the midfield and gave the side some drive. Jordie just needs to keep working on his disposal by foot to make sure that we’re getting full value from his possessions

[old dee 23,459]

I did, OD doesn't think much of many players,but Jordie will be ok, he has gone back to Casey to work on his shortcomings, the gist of original conversation was he tended to just negate and handball, he needs to learn to spread and kick, obviously Roos didn't like what he did when he played and back he goes, I have faith now that if he doesn't change then he won't be at the Club, another player whose development died in the last few years, but at least they are being developed again now

Allison's comments on last weekend show he still has some work to do

Jordie McKenzie: Jordie played on ball. He had 29 disposals and played a solid game. He worked hard in the midfield and gave the side some drive. Jordie just needs to keep working on his disposal by foot to make sure that we’re getting full value from his possessions

You have my opinion 100% correct in this area Saty.

If we had a good list we would not have finished with two wins in 2013 and have only one win in 2014 and be struggling to beat sides.

We have a large number of players that will not get us out of the bottom 3- 4 on the ladder.

McKenzie is one of those IMO

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

You have my opinion 100% correct in this area Saty.

If we had a good list we would not have finished with two wins in 2013 and have only one win in 2014 and be struggling to beat sides.

We have a large number of players that will not get us out of the bottom 3- 4 on the ladder.

McKenzie is one of those IMO

Correct. I remember that when Paul Roos was announced as Coach, I, as I suspect many on here, thought Roosy would be able to extract the talent from many players on the list, that had felt downtrodden and lacked confidence under the previous 'regime'. After all - at least I thought at the time - our list was not as bad as our performances suggested. Roosy may well elevate the standards of some on the list, but sadly, I think my assessment of the list in total was terribly off the mark.

That said, the subtle changes I have seen in the last 5 weeks, at least tells me there is some real spirit back in the club. From little things, big things grow.

Edited May 2, 2014 by iv'a worn smith

[Vagg 2,437]

I must admit I feel a bit sorry for Riley, being named as an Emergency for the game. I recall him saying a few weeks ago how much he wanted to be at a level where he was picked to play against the mob that delisted him.

He's apparently put in the hard yards on the training track and at Casey, but fell just a tad short of selection. Seems like a case of "so near, and yet so far..."!

So, unless there's a late withdrawal, I guess we'll just have to leave it to Bernie to stick it up 'em...!

[Young Dee 1,303]

Correct. I remember that when Paul Roos was announced as Coach, I, as I suspect many on here, thought Roosy would be able to extract the talent from many players on the list, that had felt downtrodden and lacked confidence under the previous 'regime'. After all - at least I thought at the time - our list was not as bad as our performances suggested. Roosy may well elevate the standards of some on the list, but sadly, I think my assessment of the list in total was terribly off the mark.

That said, the subtle changes I have seen in the last 5 weeks, at least tells me there is some real spirit back in the club. From little things, big things grow.

Agreed - but I would say there have been more than subtle changes.

I like the clubs new - 'by the numbers' articles:

Loss margin is great - if you take out the WCE game.

I have to keep telling myself all that I wished for over the preseason was a competitive side this year and so far we have got that.

Edited May 2, 2014 by Young Dee

[Satyriconhome 10,339]

My how things have changed, from Sando's presser on Crows' Twitter

"We're expecting a hard grind, defensive game tomorrow."

and of course

"We all hope Bernie plays well, just not this week."

[rpfc 28,034]

Correct. I remember that when Paul Roos was announced as Coach, I, as I suspect many on here, thought Roosy would be able to extract the talent from many players on the list, that had felt downtrodden and lacked confidence under the previous 'regime'. After all - at least I thought at the time - our list was not as bad as our performances suggested. Roosy may well elevate the standards of some on the list, but sadly, I think my assessment of the list in total was terribly off the mark.

Well I thought the opposite and I can recall being criticised for thinking we would struggle again this season. But I never for a second felt victimised. Why does the desire for free speech extend to unchallenged free speech?

If posters are being offensive, that is unacceptable but there is a disconnect when people say 'I have a right to say what I want' and implicitly state 'without others being able to do the same.'

[rpfc 28,034]

I did, OD doesn't think much of many players,but Jordie will be ok, he has gone back to Casey to work on his shortcomings, the gist of original conversation was he tended to just negate and handball, he needs to learn to spread and kick, obviously Roos didn't like what he did when he played and back he goes, I have faith now that if he doesn't change then he won't be at the Club, another player whose development died in the last few years, but at least they are being developed again now

Allison's comments on last weekend show he still has some work to do

Jordie McKenzie: Jordie played on ball. He had 29 disposals and played a solid game. He worked hard in the midfield and gave the side some drive. Jordie just needs to keep working on his disposal by foot to make sure that we’re getting full value from his possessions

When I saw him live against Gold Coast he was playing on Ablett and another one their very good mids and he was playing a very selfless role but he was doing it in a selfish way and I will explain:

When the ball was in his vicinity, he was more concerned with stopping his player from getting it than he was getting it himself. Some may say that that is good, and proper, and welcome for a tagger but if you are playing in a stoppage with 6 GC players looking at the footy, and 5 Melb players looking at the footy - the upper hand is with GC.

Not only that but when we got the footy, he was slow to move away from his man to be involved in the play. When the ball somehow got to him in close he was slow to move it backwards to our release player and seemed to struggle in that in-close environment.

This may seem unintuitive but in a game that is moving away completely from a one-on-one style - you have to be less worried about 'your' bloke and more worried about your 'ball,' less involved in disrupting one players movement and more about protecting your teams movement.

I fear for Jordie's longevity in the game if he can't put it together.

[nutbean 8,838]

When I saw him live against Gold Coast he was playing on Ablett and another one their very good mids and he was playing a very selfless role but he was doing it in a selfish way and I will explain:

When the ball was in his vicinity, he was more concerned with stopping his player from getting it than he was getting it himself. Some may say that that is good, and proper, and welcome for a tagger but if you are playing in a stoppage with 6 GC players looking at the footy, and 5 Melb players looking at the footy - the upper hand is with GC.

Not only that but when we got the footy, he was slow to move away from his man to be involved in the play. When the ball somehow got to him in close he was slow to move it backwards to our release player and seemed to struggle in that in-close environment.

This may seem unintuitive but in a game that is moving away completely from a one-on-one style - you have to be less worried about 'your' bloke and more worried about your 'ball,' less involved in disrupting one players movement and more about protecting your teams movement.

I fear for Jordie's longevity in the game if he can't put it together.

more to your point - it is a little worse than that. Even if his sole aim was to stop Ablett, the minute one of our mids got the ball, you want the other mids to break and try to make space and go offensive. Jordie doesn't do that. The likes of Ablett know that and don't fear that he will hurt them the other way. ( like Jones did to Murphy). You need the likes of Ablett to think about going defensive on McKenzie when we have the ball. Thats what Jordie needs to bring to his game.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,642]

more to your point - it is a little worse than that. Even if his sole aim was to stop Ablett, the minute one of our mids got the ball, you want the other mids to break and try to make space and go offensive. Jordie doesn't do that. The likes of Ablett know that and don't fear that he will hurt them the other way. ( like Jones did to Murphy). You need the likes of Ablett to think about going defensive on McKenzie when we have the ball. Thats what Jordie needs to bring to his game.

I think it maybe even more sophisticated than that. I remember a game when Mark Williams coached PA and Simon Godfrey was on our list. Godfrey kept getting free and as such, we kept sending the ball to him. After the game someone from the PA camp (possibly Wiiliams, but I can't remember) admitted that they had deliberately allowed Godfrey to run free hoping we would use him because they knew his disposal was poor.

So, not only could a gun player not bother about defending against a tagger such as McKenzie who can't hurt you, the instructions may be deliberate not to do so to encourage that tagger's team to get the ball to the tagger as the free man. It's another reason why a tagger has to have some offensive capability and reasonable ball use skills. I guess that's a reason - amongst others - why Geelong's use of Cameron Ling as a tagger was so effective. Why would an opponent let Ling free knowing he could create damage when he had the ball.

[poita 3,874]

So, not only could a gun player not bother about defending against a tagger such as McKenzie who can't hurt you, the instructions may be deliberate not to do so to encourage that tagger's team to get the ball to the tagger as the free man. It's another reason why a tagger has to have some offensive capability and reasonable ball use skills. I guess that's a reason - amongst others - why Geelong's use of Cameron Ling as a tagger was so effective. Why would an opponent let Ling free knowing he could create damage when he had the ball.

Unfortunately we have more than just McKenzie who have poor skills and make poor decisions - Bail is barely better, and Georgiou is proving himself to be a liability with the ball as well.

[Satyriconhome 10,339]

Unfortunately we have more than just McKenzie who have poor skills and make poor decisions - Bail is barely better, and Georgiou is proving himself to be a liability with the ball as well.

It's not poor skills or decisions, he just tends not to kick, when he just kick he usually hits a target, following the Bail myth as well..sigh..check out his disposal % eff.....and Georgiou does what?...gee sweeping statements without backup are tiresome

[chook fowler 19,248]

Georgiou isnt a penetrating kick but he doesnt often turn it over. Part of the poor disposal may come from poor running to position which will improve in time under the tutelage of Roos and Stone. Perhaps this why Roos is more tolerant of mistakes at present and concentrating on effort especially gut running in both directions

[hardtack 10,393]

thanks guys. Just thought I ask. Is that permitted?

When I want your opinion, I'll give it to you!

[Young Dee 1,303]

Georgiou isnt a penetrating kick but he doesnt often turn it over. Part of the poor disposal may come from poor running to position which will improve in time under the tutelage of Roos and Stone. Perhaps this why Roos is more tolerant of mistakes at present and concentrating on effort especially gut running in both directions

No to be disrespectful to Georgiou but I think that is because most of the time he looks for the easy kick (sideways or backwards). Maybe he is trying to play it safe and keep his spot in the team.