What's the point in doing this? He's already been thrown into basically all 17 other roles on the ground and he'd get smashed. Why humiliate him?

Playing him as a key forward dropping simple chest marks inside 50 not humiliating enough?

Watching him play in one of the other 17 positions where he picks and chooses his contests, where the whole football public can see it, is that not humiliating enough?

How is putting him in a position (as a secondary option too I might add), where he has no option other than compete, going to humiliate him? He has one expectation in that role - compete. It doesn't matter if he wins or loses the contest, he needs to put in 100%. Name another position on the ground where that applies?

I don’t rate Terlich’s disposal and he has been too loose defensively. I don’t think we have a really good defensive small back, so I would prefer to go with a better distributor and wear the consequences. Take your pick of Toumpas, Clisby or Strauss. I would like to have gone for Toumpas if he had have shown a bit more at Casey last week but I would give Clisby a chance this week. Garland also has to come in if fit and I would do so at the expense of Jetta.

I also don’t rate what Jamar provides and think he is well past it. He is a tree around the ground and I don’t value hit outs as highly as others. I would go with Spencer or Gawn.
Byrnes offers no future for us and Kent (if fit) or another midfielder should come in.

Howe is clearly more talented than anyone at Casey and should be persevered with.

Watts is lucky to hold his spot and can start as the sub.

FB: Georgiou (Lynch) Pedersen (Pods) Clisby
HB: Grimes McDonald (Jenkins) Garland (Betts)
C: Vince N. Jones Howe
HF: Bail Frawley Dunn
FF: Kent Dawes JKH
Foll: Gawn Tyson Cross
Int: Viney Salem M. Jones Watts

The match ups assume that Taylor Walker won’t play. I am undecided who takes Dangerfield, but it probably has to be N Jones (or possibly Dunn?).

Edit: Formatting

Edited April 29, 201411 yr by Fat Tony

I don't really want us to go up against an in form TeX Walker, because they'll probably slaughter us. But it'd be damn interesting to watch him going up against Vince (albeit in the midfield). Robbo last night said they should play TeX because we will be a "soft kill". Hope that rustles the boys feathers somewhat and they come out hard like they did against Sydney.

Hard contested football, show them we're not the easy beats anymore.

Rather than ins and outs I think another reset of positions is needed.

It is generally agreed that neither Tom McDonald or Dean Terlich should deliver the ball out of the back line. Find a better flanker who can run and deliver the ball out of the back line. The Swans did it beautifully thru Shaw and Malceski. Move Terlich to midfield as opposition seem content to let ball go to him and let him turn it over, he is also a bit loose minding the small forwards.

Next find mids who kick goals.

Swans showed us the way when it is a rolling maul, and key forwards are blanketed. They have mids who move forward and kick goals. We don't have goal kicking mids and the emphasis needs to be on this. I would avoid the temptation for another tall and go with run and speed.

In: Riley

Out: Jetta

I like Jetta, but as some have mentioned I think Riley is desperate to play, would love to see him and Viney in and under feeding out to Jones, Vince, and hopefully a more switched on Watts.

Gawn I think will get another week @ Casey before coming in for the Dogs game next week.

Rather than ins and outs I think another reset of positions is needed.

It is generally agreed that neither Tom McDonald or Dean Terlich should deliver the ball out of the back line. Find a better flanker who can run and deliver the ball out of the back line. The Swans did it beautifully thru Shaw and Malceski. Move Terlich to midfield as opposition seem content to let ball go to him and let him turn it over, he is also a bit loose minding the small forwards.

Next find mids who kick goals.

Swans showed us the way when it is a rolling maul, and key forwards are blanketed. They have mids who move forward and kick goals. We don't have goal kicking mids and the emphasis needs to be on this. I would avoid the temptation for another tall and go with run and speed.

I noticed McDonald did have a stuff up when Terlich ran into his line and spectated when he was about to kick it out (caused a turnover and a shot at goal).

Maybe Strauss for Terlich? I know his DE was one of the highest last season.

I noticed McDonald did have a stuff up when Terlich ran into his line and spectated when he was about to kick it out (caused a turnover and a shot at goal).

Maybe Strauss for Terlich? I know his DE was one of the highest last season.

No to Strauss. He hasn't done enough to earn a call up and although it is claimed he is a great kick, he can't actually get his hands on the ball at AFL level.

i used the word venom against carlton and i think its continuing on since then.

can already hear the words 4 points you beauty.

Interesting that you mention about if you lack lower strength, then you need to be quick, have a good leap and have courage. From what I've seen, Watts ticks two of those "alterntaive" boxes. I disagree to some extent about the courage requirement.

And no, I haven't played ruck, but some of the best rucks I've played under have been tallish (not the tallest), skinny, far from courageous, but have those other qualities that you mentioned (speed and leap).

Don't forget, I'm saying 30-40% of the time, I'm not saying full time. 40% may be a bit too much to ask, so I'll adjust that to 20-30%, but still expect critics. The centre bounce is a genuine 50/50 contest. Jack just needs to focus 100% on the ball, use his jump and win the tap. He's more than capable to do that. At boundary throw-ins he is asked to provide a genuine contest. At stoppages, he is again asked to provide a contest, but an expectation of a third-man-up to assist.

I can't believe how soft some of you are toward Jack. we all want him to be this and that. and we don't want him dropped, but when someone suggests putting him in a role where he has to show that side of his game, you're busy trying to find softer roles to protect him. He's 196cm & 90-odd kgs, he would need to put in 100% if he were to contest against someone 10kgs heavier than him.

He will learn more from putting in 100% against someone bigger than him and losing the contest, as opposed to putting in 80% against someone he should beat and lose.

One last thing on it, let's look at this week's game against Adelaide. Who's their back-up ruck? Jacobs played 89% of the game, so who rucks for the other 11%? The most likely candidate is Josh Jenkins - do you really think he will "monster" Watts at a contest? I would be very disappointed if Watts couldn't at least compete with him.

It's highly likely it won't happen, but some of the reasons why people are against it are quite limp.

I hear you. But I disagree. I think 3rd man up would be much better for Jack. Have him run in and jump over Pederson/Jenkins and tap to advantage. He will always be out wrestled by stronger players.

in Kent, Garland if fit

out Byrnes, Bail

These are good points. Dawes does present well and was a focus for the defenders, and Fitz is hardly kicking bags at Casey. So a reprieve for this week, but he has a lot to prove in my eyes. Especially now that Frawley and Pedo have raced past him in effectiveness.

And finally, those who think Dawes (8 touches, 3 marks) played better than Jack Watts on Sat are kidding themselves. Don't ask for his Jack's head and create more media pressure. Sure he looked a little lost but he is very much part of what we are putting together and will definitely come good.

You rely on Stats to have a Watts v Dawes debate ?

Firstly one plays CHF the HARDEST position on the ground. The other is a floater.

One draws the best defender in the opposition team - the other doesn't.

One is constantly presenting - the other doesn't

One flies for marks all the time and does not grab many but is rarely outmarked and is always bringing the ball to the ground. The other is 3cm taller and is rarely in a marking contest.

One shepherds, blocks, clears paths and the other does not go into a hotly contested situation.

One is constantly putting in defensive efforts, chasing hard to man the mark so there is no easy exit - the other jogs.

Pedo's best work has been as ruckman but to me he looks better when not rucking in the back half rather than the forward half.

Frawley was pretty fumbly Saturday night - but has been good up forward. He is an All Australian footballer - I expect him to be good

Edited April 29, 201411 yr by nutbean

So some better news on Kent being ready to play according to Misson. Georgiou reprimand as well.

Kent for Byrnes. Besides that I may defer to Roos' judgement considering publicly at least he seems keen on keeping Watts.

I'd move on from Jetta and Terlich as well but again if Roos wants to keep them then so be it. At least they are both hard at it and tackle.

These are good points. Dawes does present well and was a focus for the defenders, and Fitz is hardly kicking bags at Casey. So a reprieve for this week, but he has a lot to prove in my eyes. Especially now that Frawley and Pedo have raced past him in effectiveness.

And finally, those who think Dawes (8 touches, 3 marks) played better than Jack Watts on Sat are kidding themselves. Don't ask for his Jack's head and create more media pressure. Sure he looked a little lost but he is very much part of what we are putting together and will definitely come good.

Cannot believe you are doubling down on this. Unfathomable.

Frawley has played one great game and looked mostly lost for the rest of the time. Pedersen is a fighter and I am glad he is showing something in the multitude of roles he has been thrown at.

Dawes is coming off a couple months out and trying to gain match fitness and form - at least he gets his hands out and throws his weight around. Frawley, for some unknown reason, is trying to body out and take marks in his lap while turning. I thought he had learnt a thing or two from playing on all these gun forwards but if he keeps doing this I will have to dismiss that notion.

I am not about to get into another Watts slanging competition where we all try to out do each other with wringing hands and knashing teeth but you are the one kidding yourself if you think that Dawes was outshone by Watts on the weekend.

I didn't see Dawes getting a very obvious spray at 3 qtr time...

While Watts is the almost obvious out as ineffectual I just cant see how we can let him get away with this performance by letting him return to a lower level where he will slope around picking up 30 or so possessions against lesser calibre players.

What is of concern is his hardness and attack on the ball with so many examples given in this and other threads that it not worth repeating. However I doubt he is going to get better at this at the lower level. He needs to be told by Roos and I reckon 3 quarter time might have just been the beginning and I did like the comment made about the players watching and analysing together.

I also reckon Watts wasnt the only one not putting pressure on players. I did notice a couple of times he positioned himself to force a sydney player to dispose of the ball where he didnt want to go and this resulted in a turnover.

But most of the time all over the field we were under pressure when we disposed of the ball but we allowed opponents to have space and get balanced this is why they can hit a target.

I watched most games on Tv over the weekend and this was a common feature players who delivered accurately were usually well balanced and not under extreme pressure players under pressure usually just went short anywhere to a player with space they often created the space after disposal or went to a space and got the ball back.

We just seem to be so slow with our thinking that we are putting ourselves under pressure and not delivering well.

This is something that needs plenty of work at training. Jack Watts is one of the few players who does seem to be able to make space and get balanced but is now so confused that he still manages to bugger it up.

Dont know the answer but I hope Roos does.

IMO this will improve as our players learn, & as we get more of our experienced & talented players back into our lineup. the speed of decisions is as we think consciously our way forward. when it starts to be more intuitive, I'm sure we'll speed up. or down as we see fit.

I can see the coaching staff have worked out that Jack needs to stay & face his demons in the seniors, to overcome them, & his lacking confidence.

I'll back them, to take the right action.

we just needed answers, not blood.

I do like the idea of Terlich up forward possibly taking Shannon Brynes spot, i think he would chase harder and would get more ball, yes he will cough it up a few times, but then so does brynes so no change there. garland into the backline. I would like to see Gawn in the side but Jamar has done enough to keep his spot. Riley in also. I would love to see some of our on ballers rested in the forward line, it is often less congested than the bench. I still not sure I like the idea of resting a players after he kicks a goal, i.e. have him run 75 meters to the bench, sit down for 2 mins and then run another 75 meters back to position does sound like it could take more out of some of our players than just staying in position.

Worth a shot. I'm not a fan of Brynes

Listening to the comments coming out of the club for the last few days, I suspect we won't be seeing any changes. Roos said that Salem looked like he was blowing up a bit towards the end, so that would indicate another week as sub. He tells us Watts isn't getting dropped and he's the one who most deserves it. The only thing I can see being altered is Gawn maybe coming into the side, but I don't know who they'd be swapping him for.

I really hope Riley gets the nod.

I expect he'd play like a man absolutely possessed against the Crows.

Pig Dog may actually eat a Crow on the field. In front of everyone.

Is Pig Dog the best nickname of all time?

I expect Riley will be rewarded for working his butt off to get back from his leg with a game against Adelaide. Based on Roos comments Watts wont be out.

In Riley

Out Byrnes

Is Pig Dog the best nickname of all time?

Yes.

unleash the Pig Dog

love it, can't wait to yell it out at the G haha

Is Pig Dog the best nickname of all time?

Good, but doesn't come near the Galloping Gasometer (Mick Nolan) or the Flying Doormat (Bruce Doull).

These are good points. Dawes does present well and was a focus for the defenders, and Fitz is hardly kicking bags at Casey. So a reprieve for this week, but he has a lot to prove in my eyes. Especially now that Frawley and Pedo have raced past him in effectiveness.

And finally, those who think Dawes (8 touches, 3 marks) played better than Jack Watts on Sat are kidding themselves. Don't ask for his Jack's head and create more media pressure. Sure he looked a little lost but he is very much part of what we are putting together and will definitely come good.

A little snippet in todays paper - Champion data has a new indicator - "pressure indictor" ( can't remember the exact name of it) - it measures tackles, near tackles, chases and corralling. Guess who's currently rated no 4 in the tall forwards ? - not bad considering he missed the first month of footy and limited preseason.

Anyone who thinks that Watts has played better in any of the games that Dawes has played in this year is kidding themselves.

A little snippet in todays paper - Champion data has a new indicator - "pressure indictor" ( can't remember the exact name of it) - it measures tackles, near tackles, chases and corralling. Guess who's currently rated no 4 in the tall forwards ? - not bad considering he missed the first month of footy and limited preseason.

Anyone who thinks that Watts has played better in any of the games that Dawes has played in this year is kidding themselves.

And with that I think we can put that argument to rest. Thank you!

I expect Riley will be rewarded for working his butt off to get back from his leg with a game against Adelaide. Based on Roos comments Watts wont be out.

In Riley

Out Byrnes

Can't really go wrong there.

He looks so useless out there - I can't believe he is our equal leading goal kicker (even if 4 of those 5 goals came from cheap handballs into the goal square).

Shows that we really need to fix up that forward line - Dawes and Frawley inclusions are a start.