What the Heck is "Development"

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,909]

See below:

So Allison has significant and successful experience as both a development and line coach. Miller looks like being his deputy. I don't think he has particularly strong experience or qualifications but he is coming in at the entry level position. He would've completely his coaching accreditation for whatever it's worth and I think he did some coaching at local level last year. I think his recruitment was partly because they think he'll make a good coach but also because they know he'll be a good guy around the club and he brings back some club history from a tumultuous time. He's good for the club culture that Roos is so reknown for as well as being appropriate for the role.

Andrew Nichol (a development coach under Neeld) has been retained as player development manager. I presume that uses his skills as a former teacher to help Allison and Miller coordinate the development.

Thanks Master.

I haven't really been following Alistair Clarkson's push for accreditation of coaching, but in most other spheres of life some form of formal training seems beneficial, so I suspect it would be similarly helpful for a Development Coach.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Good God, Lucas Cook taken before Jack Darling!!

Reading that can cause heart failure.

Meanwhile at the same time the previous CEO was designing a club school blazer.

I cannot blame opposition clubs for not taking the MFC seriously before PJ stepped in.

name called before smedts, atley, jacobs, MWatson, ?????????????

but this shouldn't be about recruiting, nor development..... AS Our Biggest weakness has been about spotting real talent, the grit to succeed; over and above everything.

.... nice, polite, has taken priority over real footballers, from their bootlaces.

Our failures have happened behind closed doors up in the Northern Stand. Our footy nous is non existent up there amongst the suits. they just pick the wrong administrators, & the wrong coaches, recruiters etc.

It snowballs down from the wrong Board people.... then wrong decisions follow; down the path to the field.

Its the Influentials, and those who have selected the Board's over the decades on our behalves, so then we can ratify it For Them, at the elections... they are the ones who have failed Us.

.

Edited March 11, 2014 by dee-luded

[old dee 23,872]

name called before smedts, atley, jacobs, MWatson, ?????????????

but this shouldn't be about recruiting, nor development..... AS Our Biggest weakness has been about spotting real talent, the grit to succeed; over and above everything.

.... nice, polite, has taken priority over real footballers, from their bootlaces.

Our failures have happened behind closed doors up in the Northern Stand. Our footy nous is non existent up there amongst the suits. they just pick the wrong administrators, & the wrong coaches, recruiters etc.

It snowballs down from the wrong Board people.... then wrong decisions follow; down the path to the field.

Its the Influentials, and those who have selected the Board's over the decades on our behalves, so then we can ratify it For Them, at the elections... they are the ones who have failed Us.

.

Yep, Yep and Yep

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,909]

name called before smedts, atley, jacobs, MWatson, ?????????????

but this shouldn't be about recruiting, nor development..... AS Our Biggest weakness has been about spotting real talent, the grit to succeed; over and above everything.

.... nice, polite, has taken priority over real footballers, from their bootlaces.

Our failures have happened behind closed doors up in the Northern Stand. Our footy nous is non existent up there amongst the suits. they just pick the wrong administrators, & the wrong coaches, recruiters etc.

It snowballs down from the wrong Board people.... then wrong decisions follow; down the path to the field.

Its the Influentials, and those who have selected the Board's over the decades on our behalves, so then we can ratify it For Them, at the elections... they are the ones who have failed Us.

.

Yep, Yep and Yep

I think it should be 'No, no and no'.

The Melbourne Football Club has a democratically elected Board who make the decisions. Therefore, if anyone is at fault it is us, the members, who elect the Board members.

[Bay Riffin 1,480]

If my memory serves me correcting, Neeld was staggered at how far behind in terms of fitness we were compared to the Colliwobbles (hence the floggings the players got in terms of pre-season running). To me this is a manifestation of the poor culture at the club. The new recruits would accept that this is the fitness standard required of them and consequently they were deemend to be not as well developed. Their fitness base (or lack thereof) did not allow them to learn when, where and how to position themselves and certainly whatever mentors they had did not raise the bar sufficiently for the newbies to develope to an afl standard.

Its an old adage but you play how you train - no fitness base means = inability to train hard and develop good habits = translates to not playing hard in a game = floggings

I don't quite understand this. Byrnes comes in from Geelong and says the dees pre-season was harder than any he had done at Geelong.

I fail to see its a fitness issue. In fact i reckon a lot of beltings we were running moreso than the opposition just like a losing tennis player.

[old dee 23,872]

I think it should be 'No, no and no'.

The Melbourne Football Club has a democratically elected Board who make the decisions. Therefore, if anyone is at fault it is us, the members, who elect the Board members.

Sorry so all this time it is the fault of us idiots who just pay their membership every year!

Some things I can easily believe.

That is not one of them.

Edited March 11, 2014 by old dee

[rpfc 28,781]

I think we have failed to get the most out of the promising players we have picked.

But I think the vast majority of our picks have been failures - and that is why we are where we are.

[old dee 23,872]

I think we have failed to get the most out of the promising players we have picked.

But I think the vast majority of our picks have been failures - and that is why we are where we are.

Amazing but two sentences covers it well rpfc.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,909]

Sorry so all this time it is the fault of us idiots who just pay their membership every year!

Some things I can easily believe.

That is not one of them.

Speaking for myself, I've been a member for about 15 years and I don't recall ever taking enough interest in Board machinations to vote when the opportunity is offered to me. That's my failing and I've only got myself to blame.

Does anyone know what proportion of the membership eligible to vote actually does so? And a tougher question - do we know how this proportion compares with other clubs?

[DeeSpencer 26,083]

Thanks Master.

I haven't really been following Alistair Clarkson's push for accreditation of coaching, but in most other spheres of life some form of formal training seems beneficial, so I suspect it would be similarly helpful for a Development Coach.

I do wonder if a course that teaches some basic drills and principles can really be of much benefit particularly to guys who worked full time as players. I think pursuing outside experience in management, teaching, psychology or philosophy might actually be of more benefit. But the underlying form of training that young coaches need is experience. That's why I'm glad we have Allison as the head of development.

[old dee 23,872]

Speaking for myself, I've been a member for about 15 years and I don't recall ever taking enough interest in Board machinations to vote when the opportunity is offered to me. That's my failing and I've only got myself to blame.

Does anyone know what proportion of the membership eligible to vote actually does so? And a tougher question - do we know how this proportion compares with other clubs?

I think you will find that there has not been the need for a vote for some years.

The situation is well organized to have no contests well before the AGM.

I cannot remember voting in over a decade so I am fairly sure the figures from whenever would be fairly meaningless.

I just rail at the suggestion that the situation the MFC finds itself in is the fault of the membership.

[Machsy 2,858]

I think Toumpas is a perfect example of culture and expectation being well out of whack, and whilst the club may have changed internally when Roos arrived, many supporters retain that mindset. That being, of expecting kids to carry the club, loading them up with ignorantly-premature expectation, and unsurprisingly chipping away at their psyche til there is a shell of the eager player there once was.

It should be seen as an anomaly for a player to come in & have the impact a kid like Wines has at Port, and it rightly is.

Wines was one of few that come in equipped with a body fully ready to handle the rigours of AFL footy.

Toumpas in comparison has been roundly criticised well ahead of time for his inability to have the same impact.

He should never be expected to, even at this stage, very early in his second season.

But still, the all-knowing mob moans incessantly...

[Machsy 2,858]

I think we have failed to get the most out of the promising players we have picked.

But I think the vast majority of our picks have been failures - and that is why we are where we are.

I think a large portion of that is due to the environment these players have been introduced to, and the expectations they've been put under prematurely.

[old dee 23,872]

I think Toumpas is a perfect example of culture and expectation being well out of whack, and whilst the club may have changed internally when Roos arrived, many supporters retain that mindset. That being, of expecting kids to carry the club, loading them up with ignorantly-premature expectation, and unsurprisingly chipping away at their psyche til there is a shell of the eager player there once was.

It should be seen as an anomaly for a player to come in & have the impact a kid like Wines has at Port, and it rightly is.

Wines was one of few that come in equipped with a body fully ready to handle the rigours of AFL footy.

Toumpas in comparison has been roundly criticised well ahead of time for his inability to have the same impact.

He should never be expected to, even at this stage, very early in his second season.

But still, the all-knowing mob moans incessantly...

Remind again of the reasons to cheer Machsy?

[DeeSpencer 26,083]

I think Toumpas is a perfect example of culture and expectation being well out of whack, and whilst the club may have changed internally when Roos arrived, many supporters retain that mindset. That being, of expecting kids to carry the club, loading them up with ignorantly-premature expectation, and unsurprisingly chipping away at their psyche til there is a shell of the eager player there once was.

It should be seen as an anomaly for a player to come in & have the impact a kid like Wines has at Port, and it rightly is.

Wines was one of few that come in equipped with a body fully ready to handle the rigours of AFL footy.

Toumpas in comparison has been roundly criticised well ahead of time for his inability to have the same impact.

He should never be expected to, even at this stage, very early in his second season.

But still, the all-knowing mob moans incessantly...

Top 5 draft picks are hard though because it's not just about expectation of performance it's about expectation of how they play as well. I think Roos knows that which is why he was happy to drop back to pick 9 with Salem. Hogan takes a fair bit of the heat off but already their is less hurry with Salem. The other problem is Toumpas even when playing poorly can be a justified selection because of how little midfield/forward depth there is in the team. I'm going to try to keep my expectations of Toumpas similar to my expectations on Salem, Kent and JKH.

[Machsy 2,858]

I think at a club like Sydney, Toumpas would have probably played about as much as a 1st round pick they had, in Jed Lamb.

All of his 13 matches were played in his 3rd season, before defecting to GWS.

The problem is that Toumpas was expected and needed to come and provide beyond a meaningful contribution in his first season.

It is possible for that to happen, but rare.

Even for a top 5 pick.

How did Plowman and O'Rourke go last year?

What about Dom Tyson in his first 2 seasons?

We have and we continue to expect too much too soon, because we've been seduced by a few rare players, and worse, we've been seduced by the words of the club.

These players are 10 year investments, and we should be mindful of such.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,909]

I think at a club like Sydney, Toumpas would have probably played about as much as a 1st round pick they had, in Jed Lamb.

All of his 13 matches were played in his 3rd season, before defecting to GWS.

The problem is that Toumpas was expected and needed to come and provide beyond a meaningful contribution in his first season.

It is possible for that to happen, but rare.

Even for a top 5 pick.

How did Plowman and O'Rourke go last year?

What about Dom Tyson in his first 2 seasons?

We have and we continue to expect too much too soon, because we've been seduced by a few rare players, and worse, we've been seduced by the words of the club.

These players are 10 year investments, and we should be mindful of such.

I think we also get a bit seduced by the annoyingly puerile discussion about the importance of Rising Star nominations and winners. As nice as it is to have players considered for that award, no more than 22 players a year are going to be nominated and many of them don't appear to go on to have stellar careers. The Rising Star award is an example of short-term expectations which don't really fit in with long term careers.

[old dee 23,872]

I think at a club like Sydney, Toumpas would have probably played about as much as a 1st round pick they had, in Jed Lamb.

All of his 13 matches were played in his 3rd season, before defecting to GWS.

The problem is that Toumpas was expected and needed to come and provide beyond a meaningful contribution in his first season.

It is possible for that to happen, but rare.

Even for a top 5 pick.

How did Plowman and O'Rourke go last year?

What about Dom Tyson in his first 2 seasons?

We have and we continue to expect too much too soon, because we've been seduced by a few rare players, and worse, we've been seduced by the words of the club.

These players are 10 year investments, and we should be mindful of such.

Oh god so we gave up eight years to early on Cook and seven years on Gysberts.

Sorry Machsy I could not resist.

[Machsy 2,858]

Obviously not.

If you can see irrefutable proof it is likely never going to work, then you cut your losses.

But even then, maybe their careers were salvageable had they been handled differently at the early stages.

Simply, we shouldn't expect them to produce like a seasoned vet in their first couple of seasons.

Expectations have been set too high too early.

[old dee 23,872]

Obviously not.

If you can see irrefutable proof it is likely never going to work, then you cut your losses.

But even then, maybe their careers were salvageable had they been handled differently at the early stages.

Simply, we shouldn't expect them to produce like a seasoned vet in their first couple of seasons.

Expectations have been set too high too early.

Agree, the problem as been we denuded the playing list of senior players with experience and replaced them almost exclusively with kids the net result was there was no one to carry the load while the kids developed an stiil is not enough to this day..

So expecting too much was not the fault of supporters but the lunacy of the management during the 2007 - 2011 period.

[rjay 25,094]

I think at a club like Sydney, Toumpas would have probably played about as much as a 1st round pick they had, in Jed Lamb.

All of his 13 matches were played in his 3rd season, before defecting to GWS.

The problem is that Toumpas was expected and needed to come and provide beyond a meaningful contribution in his first season.

It is possible for that to happen, but rare.

Even for a top 5 pick.

How did Plowman and O'Rourke go last year?

What about Dom Tyson in his first 2 seasons?

We have and we continue to expect too much too soon, because we've been seduced by a few rare players, and worse, we've been seduced by the words of the club.

These players are 10 year investments, and we should be mindful of such.

Good argument 'Machsy', but you are gilding the Lilly a bit with Tyson who was injured for the greater period of those 2 seasons.

[junk 342]

I was watching a pub side play Hawthorn,we will be lucky to get past 17th on the ladder.Roos said young players need to go back and forward between 1st and 2nd sides.The Dees don't have enough quality Senior players to lead our younger players. Extended contracts

given to some players in the past was purely stupid.How did CLARKSON succeed?,6 wins in his first year……2 premierships and a runners up to his credit.TYSON,VINCE and CROSS are the only positives the rest should play for nothing,pink slips all around!!!!!!.

Let's cut out the b.s out on the M.F.C website i.e Garland lends his supports to Alexis. we are rubbish forget accolades.

[Moonshadow 17,677]

I was watching a pub side play Hawthorn,we will be lucky to get past 17th on the ladder.Roos said young players need to go back and forward between 1st and 2nd sides.The Dees don't have enough quality Senior players to lead our younger players. Extended contracts

given to some players in the past was purely stupid.How did CLARKSON succeed?,6 wins in his first year……2 premierships and a runners up to his credit.TYSON,VINCE and CROSS are the only positives the rest should play for nothing,pink slips all around!!!!!!.

Let's cut out the b.s out on the M.F.C website i.e Garland lends his supports to Alexis. we are rubbish forget accolades.

WTF???

[Jumping Jack Clennett 1,809]

Don't forget all the injuries!!!!!

It's much harder to try to name recruits who haven't been cruelled by injury in their first 2 seasons than ones who have.

Broken legs to Strauss and Blease, a bad back for Watts, diabetes etc for Fitz, ACL for Spencer, Trengoves foot(?ankle), Grimes, Tappy, Tynan, Taggart,...the list goes on. And now it's Hogans back after his PCL,what's wrong with Viney?

Do all clubs suffer like this?

It's hard for players to develop when they miss pre-seasons.

A high injury rate MUST be contributing to our young players' slow, or lack of, improvement.

[titan_uranus 25,045]

I can't believe the number of people who've posted along the lines of 'it's pretty much just been poor drafting'.

The concept of development (yes, a pretty nebulous word) is so much more than just sitting around a table and picking good players.

You can bring in as much junior talent as you want. If there is no leadership, no genuine culture about the club, no setting of standards, and (comparatively) poor coaching, you are not going to reach whatever potential you have.

We haven't had a feel, a culture, whatever word you've wanted, since, well, who knows. We haven't had genuine leaders, either on or off the field, since Neitz and McDonald (one of whom we kicked out the door). We haven't had players who set examples on the training track until recently. We haven't had coaches who are were industry-standard. We've pushed players into retirement when we shouldn't have, we've asked players to play so many positions they become a jack of all trades but master of absolutely nothing (Dunn is a perfect example, Cale Morton too). We reportedly went from being far too lenient on players to being far too tough on some players. We also put our players through the 'tanking phase' (whether you think we tanked or not, or whatever, that period was nothing other than a negative for the club).

There are so many things that have been below 'par', if you will, with this club. Drafting was one of them, but there is so much more. It's just crazy that so many people on here, who you would think would appreciate the situation we've been in (and are still in) could wave it all away and put it down to drafting alone.