On 16/02/2014 at 07:53, Lamashtu said:

But boy will he be edging closer to it by holding off talks.

He must be pretty lowly paid if he's an unrestricted free agent. Not good news at all if this does go pear-shaped.

Well I hope he's not. Obviously were not across all contracts but 650/700 should be suffice. If Hoagan lives up to the hype he should be offered the money that is reserved for a marquee player. Not a key defender. Part of this club moving forward is consistent performances = contracts that reflect your worth.

  On 16/02/2014 at 08:38, Chook said:

I wasn't actually speaking to you specifically.

It's subtle, but I've done a fair bit of lying myself in the past. I know when I'm doing a bad job of it, and I reckon I can pick when someone else is too. The biggest giveaways are how long you delay before answering a question (longer is worse), how much detail you give in your answers (more details are usually indicative of a poor liar), and what your general body language is like. In today's interview, Frawley was really relaxed and cracked heaps of jokes with the reporters. Now I'm not saying that anyone who does these things is always lying, but it's a good indicator. Frawley looked to me as if he was telling the truth--that he genuinely doesn't know whether he'll stay or go, but that he is happy at the club right now.

Your third point is totally right, but in this situation I don't think James Frawley would have anything to gain by making people think he was lying about leaving when he really wasn't (hypothetically-speaking of course).

EDIT: I'm not saying I'm a human lie detector or the Mentalist or anthing. I'm just saying that Frawley strikes me as someone who is (both intentionally and unintentionally), open and forthright with his answers; it's not in him to lie. For that reason, he's probably not good at it. This means we can trust him when he says he's making up his mind still, since if he wasn't still making up his mind, he wouldn't be able to conceal that fact from us as well as certain other former Melbourne Football Club players.

Liars always expect the worst of other people.

  On 16/02/2014 at 09:13, Moonshadow said:

That makes a difference to the situation. We have the option to match an offer and get compo should he leave. Still, I'm not aware of any RFAs where the offer has been matched.

The player requiring to be in the top pay bracket at the club to be a RFA (as opposed to a 7 year FA) is a tough one when negotiating contacts with 21 and 22 yr old players. Do we sign them on a 3-4year front loaded contact, knowing that they may be on considerably less than their market value in their last year or do we pay more in the final year keeping them in the top bracket??? AFL inflation could have an effect on FA considerations for longer tern contracts. Four years ago $300k pa to play AFL was a very good money. Not so now.

You'd be filthy if you were one of the Swans players who resigned on crappy $300k 3-4 year contracts last year, right before the Buddy trade was announced.

The cynic in me says:
Waiting until the next coach is announced = that decision will be at the end of the year = he's waiting until the end of the year.

Either way the failure to land Adam Simpson or Stuie Dew was pretty unfortunate. But it didn't happen so we moved on.

Another cynical question is what are Frawley's thoughts on Jade Rawlings. Of the assistant coaches he is the one with senior potential (Stone probably not keen, Matthews and McPherson not interested). If we were to promote Rawlings at the end of the year it could certainly be a decision that heavily influences his choice one way or another.

  On 16/02/2014 at 07:36, Baghdad Bob said:

Didn't like the description "unrestricted free agent".

No salary matching option unfortunately.

Here are the rules on free agency.

"

* A player has served eight or more seasons of AFL football at one club, is one of the top 25 per cent highest-paid players at his club, and is now out of contract for the first time since reaching eight seasons of service. (restricted free agent):

The player is eligible to field offers from all rival AFL clubs.

If he wishes to change clubs, the player must decide on the best offer of his choice from one rival club.

His club has the right to match the presented offer.

If the club matches the offer, he may choose to remain with his original club, seek a trade or enter the draft.

If the club does not or can not match the offer, the player can move to the new club of his choice.

His original club will receive a compensation pick for the loss of the player, on an AFL-determined formula to apply where clubs lose more free agents than they gain in any single transfer period.

* A player has served eight or more seasons of AFL football at one club, is not one of the top 25 per cent highest-paid players at his club, and is now out of contract for the first time since reaching eight seasons of service. (unrestricted free agent)

The player is eligible to field offers from all rival AFL clubs.

If he wishes to change clubs, the player must decide on the best offer of his choice from one rival club.

His club does not have the right to match the presented offer, and the player can move automatically to the new club of his choice.

His original club will receive a compensation pick for the loss of the player, on an AFL-determined formula to apply where clubs lose more free agents than they gain in any single transfer period.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/afl-free-agency-how-it-works-20121001-26ue3.html#ixzz2tTrJWRSN

I would be surprised if he wasn't in the top 25% paid at the MFC. If he is in the top 25%, he is a "resticted free agent".

I have just gone through our list and change "surprised" to "shocked" if he wasn't in out top 25% paid.

  On 16/02/2014 at 10:40, the master said:

The cynic in me says:

Waiting until the next coach is announced = that decision will be at the end of the year = he's waiting until the end of the year.

Either way the failure to land Adam Simpson or Stuie Dew was pretty unfortunate. But it didn't happen so we moved on.

Another cynical question is what are Frawley's thoughts on Jade Rawlings. Of the assistant coaches he is the one with senior potential (Stone probably not keen, Matthews and McPherson not interested). If we were to promote Rawlings at the end of the year it could certainly be a decision that heavily influences his choice one way or another.

He didn't say that 'master', it was a factor but not the only one. I think if Roos commits to the 3rd year during the season that may help things along but Frawley's decision may need to be made before a decision on the new coach.

  On 16/02/2014 at 10:58, rjay said:

He didn't say that 'master', it was a factor but not the only one. I think if Roos commits to the 3rd year during the season that may help things along but Frawley's decision may need to be made before a decision on the new coach.

Again just being cynical but the next coach thing does give players an out which is why it's such a big shame we didn't nail the man last year. Maybe we could offer Frawley a one year deal and see where we are next year. Offer him 1 year 1 million.

I wondered the same thing. 1 year contract, throw everything at him to get him to stay onboard a bit longer and see the progress we make. Would still have every club knocking on his door in case it doesn't work out for us, just a year later.

  On 16/02/2014 at 10:23, Hannibal said:

Liars always expect the worst of other people.

Everyone lies. It's the ones that want you to believe that they don't that you have to watch out for.

Who would really blame him, if he left? 8 years in defence, for the worst performed team since the early 1900's...

  On 16/02/2014 at 12:23, tatu said:

Who would really blame him, if he left? 8 years in defence, for the worst performed team since the early 1900's...

Not me!

  On 16/02/2014 at 12:23, tatu said:

Who would really blame him, if he left? 8 years in defence, for the worst performed team since the early 1900's...

I wouldn't blame him - I'd probably do the same thing in his shoes. I would still be bitterly disappointed though.

Frawley has told The Age if Roos extends his contract he will definitely sign up again with us.

  On 16/02/2014 at 12:11, Chook said:

Everyone lies. It's the ones that want you to believe that they don't that you have to watch out for.

You probably understand that there are degrees of everything.

In other words, there are liars and there are liars.

Being a volunteer helps occasionally, was standing next to Peter Jackson whilst Chip was doing the presser, as Chip finished he came over to Peter Jackson and said with a laugh paraphrasing "that should be worth another 300"....Jackson laughed back and said "No".......I don't think there is problem.......I asked Chip how many times a day he gets asked about the contract, he said at least once a day...........said he is really enjoying the 'new' Club but just wants to see what eventuates, too many false dawns

I think its a perfect situation bar the fact that we dont have Chips signature....

It will make Roosy think....well...Do I want to go a little further than 2 years...Now that I'm here...I made the decision to come back to footy....his brain will tick....especially if we start winning a whole lot more...

I think it will work in Melbournes favour and I think Roosy will want to take his boys further!! Yes I am hoping like hell he will sign longer but..he has said two years..

You develop friendships in footy and want success for your friends...I think we will sign Roosy for longer...somehow...even if its another 2 years..

  On 16/02/2014 at 23:25, Tapscott Tough said:

I think its a perfect situation bar the fact that we dont have Chips signature....

It will make Roosy think....well...Do I want to go a little further than 2 years...Now that I'm here...I made the decision to come back to footy....his brain will tick....especially if we start winning a whole lot more...

I think it will work in Melbournes favour and I think Roosy will want to take his boys further!! Yes I am hoping like hell he will sign longer but..he has said two years..

You develop friendships in footy and want success for your friends...I think we will sign Roosy for longer...somehow...even if its another 2 years..

If not he could step into a neil craig role and be directly involved with the list he is building, give the players a little more confidence that his successor has him overseeing for a couple of extra years.

i strongly believe Roos will take the third year now anyway and Jade Rawlings will end up taking over.

I have said it before and I will say it again - FA has changed the landscape in many different ways.

It has loosened player bonds to clubs of course but it has also meant that there will be more contracts signed in September and October especially, when players can see and hear what is out there (teams cannot negotiate directly with players and agents outside of the month of October).

Contracts will be signed later and later.

It's not a big deal.

This whole seven coaches in seven years thing really annoys me.

'Technically' true, but does it really represent the true state of affairs? No, it's just an easy way for the media to over-dramatise the situation.

Included in the seven coaches are Mark Riley, Todd Viney and Neil Craig, who were never appointed as full-time senior coaches. Riley coached less than half a year, Viney about five games and Craig half a season.

Then they include Daniher and Roos. Daniher coached Frawley for half a season in his first year and Roos is yet to coach Frawley in a home-and-away match.

So as much as the '7 in 7' years sounds nice and fluffy for the media, the reality is he has essentially played primarily under two coaches...Bailey and Neeld.

I know they are trying to paint Melbourne as a club that regularly sacks its coaches, but that couldn't be further from the truth. I am 31 and have only seen one coach sacked early in his tenure...Neeld. Compare this to many other clubs and it is quite favourable.

  On 16/02/2014 at 10:48, Redleg said:

Here are the rules on free agency.

"

* A player has served eight or more seasons of AFL football at one club, is one of the top 25 per cent highest-paid players at his club, and is now out of contract for the first time since reaching eight seasons of service. (restricted free agent):

The player is eligible to field offers from all rival AFL clubs.

If he wishes to change clubs, the player must decide on the best offer of his choice from one rival club.

His club has the right to match the presented offer.

If the club matches the offer, he may choose to remain with his original club, seek a trade or enter the draft.

If the club does not or can not match the offer, the player can move to the new club of his choice.

His original club will receive a compensation pick for the loss of the player, on an AFL-determined formula to apply where clubs lose more free agents than they gain in any single transfer period.

* A player has served eight or more seasons of AFL football at one club, is not one of the top 25 per cent highest-paid players at his club, and is now out of contract for the first time since reaching eight seasons of service. (unrestricted free agent)

The player is eligible to field offers from all rival AFL clubs.

If he wishes to change clubs, the player must decide on the best offer of his choice from one rival club.

His club does not have the right to match the presented offer, and the player can move automatically to the new club of his choice.

His original club will receive a compensation pick for the loss of the player, on an AFL-determined formula to apply where clubs lose more free agents than they gain in any single transfer period.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/afl-free-agency-how-it-works-20121001-26ue3.html#ixzz2tTrJWRSN

I would be surprised if he wasn't in the top 25% paid at the MFC. If he is in the top 25%, he is a "resticted free agent".

I have just gone through our list and change "surprised" to "shocked" if he wasn't in out top 25% paid.

One thing I'd like to know is, if the top 25% is taken from his last year of contract, the year he signed the new contract or is it leveled out over the length of the contract?

  On 17/02/2014 at 00:05, Grimes Times said:

One thing I'd like to know is, if the top 25% is taken from his last year of contract, the year he signed the new contract or is it leveled out over the length of the contract?

Excellent question.

I believe I have heard it was over the length of the contract - but I have tweeted Patrick Keane at the AFL for advice.

I would argue for it to be an average wage of the contract.

I think Frawley will stay if we show some real improvement.

I spoke to Tom $kully who said to me, "I am contracted to the MFC until the end of the season, I will decide then what I am doing". His answer made me think he was leaving at the end of the season. I now believe he had already done a deal with GWS

Chips answer albeit to the media appeared honest and indicated what would make him stay. The MFC are in control of Chips situation, we had no say with TS.

PS. Nice to have a midfield Friday night, imagine having a fit forward line too.

We should offer Chip a two year extension and a good pay rise, if we haven't improved by the time Roos leaves then he and alot of others will be jumping ship, i think the biggest doubt would be longer term deals so maybe a more short term deal would appeal more to him

I think Chip and Watts have been as up front as possible about their situations.

People blasted JW for what he said on the Footy Show but I don't blame him at all for saying what he did. Dermott was carrying on like a galoot about how he should be dropped but while the club was in the process of being repaired, Jack did the club a favor by inadvertently laying out some home truths. He didn't literally say as much but between the lines, he was intimating that there had been something wrong with the club and it needed to be repaired. Chip has done the same thing. He has identified what needs to be fixed: in this case, stability of coaching structure.

Compare this to Scully. People make out his decision was entirely about money and there is an element of that in his transfer. However, what I would have liked Scully to have done is to explain some of his misgivings about the Melbourne culture (we have heard that was part of his decision too). When Leigh Colbert left Geelong in 1999, he was at pains to tell Frank Costa and Brian Cook what he thought was wrong with the culture. While both of them were incredulous at the time, I reckon in hindsight they came to appreciate that kind of candor as it allowed them to identify what needed to be fixed.
I don't know what is going on behind the scenes but by saying what he is at the moment, Chip is at least giving our club a chance to fix a problem (though it seems things are way improved upon the years 2008-2013).

Chip comes from good country stock.

Honest as the day is long.

If he says he is waiting on a future direction of the coaching, who am I to say any different.

In Chip we trust.