Sylvia is what he is ...

• For a start, ignore the draft number because that drafting system we use is a lottery.
• He was an excellent under 18 player ... all that proves is that he was an excellent under 18 player
• Once in the big league, after a few years, it was fairly obvious what sort of player he was going to be.

Face it, he didn't become the player that we wanted him to be. He is what he is and his DNA tells us that. Now, when he was viewed as a 17 year old, we didn't know about that DNA. Just accept things for what they are.

I often wish we didn't have a draft ... if he was pick 53 instead of pick 3, then how is he viewed?

The draft is an ass and if either Petracca or Brayshaw don't turn out to be the players that we want them to be, the same idiotic story will unfurl ... it happened with Toumpas before he'd even completed 1 season at the club. Ridiculous.

I'm not making excuses for Sylvia - he was always going to turn out the way he did ... trouble is, our crystal ball (the draft) isn't at all accurate.

If he went at pick 53, he would still be considered a lazy and stupid footballer. As he has always been and as a few spotted and called over 5 years ago

If he went at pick 53, he would still be considered a lazy and stupid footballer. As he has always been and as a few spotted and called over 5 years ago

Really? I'm not so sure.

I reckon if he was pick 53 we'd have thought we'd gotten ourselves a bargain - such is the faith that many have in the draft.

Really? I'm not so sure.

I reckon if he was pick 53 we'd have thought we'd gotten ourselves a bargain - such is the faith that many have in the draft.

Most would have probably felt that way, but a few here and on the old 'ology called Sylvia out a long time ago. I started a thread with a heading along the lines of Sylvia being a pathetic excuse of a footballer some 5 odd years ago and copped it big time.

Some of us never got caught up by the occasional glimpses of brilliance but rather saw a lazy spud who rarely gave 2nd efforts, who never did any gut running and who was not prepared to change. Pick 3 or 53 makes no difference to such observers.

If he went at pick 53, he would still be considered a lazy and stupid footballer. As he has always been and as a few spotted and called over 5 years ago

Ironically, if he'd been pick 53 he may have worked harder to prove himself. That may have made him more professional and subsequently more successful. But, of course, we'll never know.

Wayne Carey quoted in The Age saying that Colin looks like he fell asleep and swallowed his pillow, so out of condition is he.

Oh dear.

One of the biggest baking in recent times. Reading between the lines, it sounds like Slyvia is prime for a sacking. I can't see him sticking around for another two seasons.

I can, if it means getting paid.

Realistically though, it looks like they will come to an arrangement, so that they can move on and free up a spot on the list.

Most would have probably felt that way, but a few here and on the old 'ology called Sylvia out a long time ago. I started a thread with a heading along the lines of Sylvia being a pathetic excuse of a footballer some 5 odd years ago and copped it big time.

Some of us never got caught up by the occasional glimpses of brilliance but rather saw a lazy spud who rarely gave 2nd efforts, who never did any gut running and who was not prepared to change. Pick 3 or 53 makes no difference to such observers.

Actually, it does.

Most are unable to get the pick 3 out of their heads ... it's actually quite hard to do.

If he was pick 53 we would be having a completely different conversation - but hey, I'm never going to change your mind so let's agree to disagree. I respect your views by the way.

I just don't like the draft and all the workings of it. It is what is it but that doesn't mean we shouldn't critique it. After all, many are quick to criticise our choices - why can't we broaden the view and look at it from all angles?

Actually, it does.

Most are unable to get the pick 3 out of their heads ... it's actually quite hard to do.

If he was pick 53 we would be having a completely different conversation - but hey, I'm never going to change your mind so let's agree to disagree. I respect your views by the way.

I just don't like the draft and all the workings of it ... my view is an extreme view and I'm in the minority.

I get what you are saying, but my point is that while most don't see past the pick 3, some do. yes the conversation would be different with many here, but not with those that judged Sylvia on his pathetic attitude early.

"He went over there, he had an ordinary year last year, I would have thought that [after] an ordinary year last year that Colin Syliva would have turned up this year super fit and rippling and he hasn't done that," Carey said.

the ox also said this on SEN on Colin Sylvia: "he's immature for his age and always has been"

I didn't...i have always thought it would be a miracle if Col played well at the Shockers. For 10 years he played in 2nd gear for us...10 years

He doesn't know how to improve, it's too late.

If Sylvia managed to get his act together and play great footy at the Dockers it would've left a pretty sour taste in my mouth. It would've been seen as an indictment on the development of players at the MFC and another reason for the club to be shamed by the media. But alas, he's been found out.

It just goes to show that the likes of Moloney and Sylvia weren't that good and were playing in a very mediocre team that made them look like they had the goods. I can't have that Sylvia had all of this amazing talent that was waiting to be unleashed and drawing comparisons to Gary Ablett Jnr power game is just fantasy.

Freo are running the public shaming campaign in the hope he pulls the pin. Who knows what performance criteria is in his contract but I reckon if they sack him they'll be paying him out which wouldn't be ideal but would hardly put a dent in Freo's coffers.

It's heartening to know that a top 4-6 club can make decisions as dumb as ours have been. We just made many dumb decisions consecutively

If Sylvia managed to get his act together and play great footy at the Dockers it would've left a pretty sour taste in my mouth. It would've been seen as an indictment on the development of players at the MFC and another reason for the club to be shamed by the media. But alas, he's been found out.

It just goes to show that the likes of Moloney and Sylvia weren't that good and were playing in a very mediocre team that made them look like they had the goods. I can't have that Sylvia had all of this amazing talent that was waiting to be unleashed and drawing comparisons to Gary Ablett Jnr power game is just fantasy.

Freo are running the public shaming campaign in the hope he pulls the pin. Who knows what performance criteria is in his contract but I reckon if they sack him they'll be paying him out which wouldn't be ideal but would hardly put a dent in Freo's coffers.

I am sure W.A. Mining can cover Col's payout!!

He may want to leave the state fairly quickly though, possibly the fastest he has ever run....

I remember the bloke we did act on many years ago for being [censored] at training, Martin Pike! Big mistake there by Balmy.

That ain't why he (I mean Martin Pike) was cut.

I get what you are saying, but my point is that while most don't see past the pick 3, some do. yes the conversation would be different with many here, but not with those that judged Sylvia on his pathetic attitude early.

I can't remember the last pick 53 (or thereabouts) that had loads of natural talent at under 18 level (like Sylvia) and who was dead lazy. However, I'm not arguing your appraisal of Sylvia. Sounds like you got it right - do you ever get any wrong? I do

Like it or not, Sylvia is connected to his draft pick number. Most of the players are.

I can acutely remember a time when we never had a draft - none of this stuff ever really happened. 17/18 year old recruits were largely unheard of and if they made it, well and good. If they didn't make it, they were largely forgotten about (often they were never heard of in the first place) That's in a general sense.

Just imagine if all the clubs just had zones or academies and there was no draft at all? ... No more numbers. All the recruits would probably just be treated equally. And ... it would be much fairer (as long as the zones or academies were largely equal) I'm not suggesting that will ever happen although the academies look like they're here to stay (at least for the Northern state teams)

I can't remember the last pick 53 (or thereabouts) that had loads of natural talent at under 18 level (like Sylvia) and who was dead lazy. However, I'm not arguing your appraisal of Sylvia. Sounds like you got it right - do you ever get any wrong? I do

Like it or not, Sylvia is connected to his draft pick number. Most of the players are.

I can acutely remember a time when we never had a draft - none of this stuff ever really happened. 17/18 year old recruits were largely unheard of and if they made it, well and good. If they didn't make it, they were largely forgotten about (often they were never heard of in the first place) That's in a general sense.

Just imagine if all the clubs just had zones or academies and there was no draft at all? ... No more numbers. All the recruits would probably just be treated equally. And ... it would be much fairer (as long as the zones or academies were largely equal)

Stop dreaming of Logic & Good ideas Macca...The Draft is a great Television event that keeps twirps like Anthony Hudson employed...

This was taken 2 weeks ago and I must say he does look pudgy and overweight. Far from when he looked ripped back in the day..

Stop dreaming of Logic & Good ideas Macca...The Draft is a great Television event that keeps twirps like Anthony Hudson employed...

There's always a means to an end isn't there?

You know who'll cop it if Brayshaw and Petracca turn out to be stars - Barry (for his previous lottery picks) I can't wait.

Actually, if we come good, all the misery of the last 8 years will largely disappear (for a time) - if you can remember back that far, there weren't many conversations about the 20 odd years prior to '87 once Northey got us rolling. We all just rode that wave and the past was largely forgotten about.

I can't remember the last pick 53 (or thereabouts) that had loads of natural talent at under 18 level (like Sylvia) and who was dead lazy. However, I'm not arguing your appraisal of Sylvia. Sounds like you got it right - do you ever get any wrong? I do

Like it or not, Sylvia is connected to his draft pick number. Most of the players are.

I can acutely remember a time when we never had a draft - none of this stuff ever really happened. 17/18 year old recruits were largely unheard of and if they made it, well and good. If they didn't make it, they were largely forgotten about (often they were never heard of in the first place) That's in a general sense.

Just imagine if all the clubs just had zones or academies and there was no draft at all? ... No more numbers. All the recruits would probably just be treated equally. And ... it would be much fairer (as long as the zones or academies were largely equal)

I've got many wrong Macca, just not Sylvia.

robbie grey was considered a super talent and a bit lazy, a bit soft, and injury-prone his underage year. went pick 55 iirc.

it took him years to a) get his body right and b) have the desire to get the most out of himself. ironically a severe knee injury may have been the catalyst for the change.

he's been flying for two seasons now.

Groundhog day anyone?

robbie grey was considered a super talent and a bit lazy, a bit soft, and injury-prone his underage year. went pick 55 iirc.

it took him years to a) get his body right and b) have the desire to get the most out of himself. ironically a severe knee injury may have been the catalyst for the change.

he's been flying for two seasons now.

I'll re-frame my point ... was Sylvia dead lazy at under 18 level? I'm not sure he was viewed that way. Do you draft a dead lazy player at pick 3. What we know now is different to what we knew then.

I guess Gray went late because he was viewed as lazy ... and now he's a really good player. Go figure.

We judge these kids way too early - they're not men and they are miles off being fully mature. I take it all with a grain of salt. The only real truism of the draft is that the top 10 should be better than the next 10 and so on and so forth.

And then there's Robbie Gray (pick 55)

I've got many wrong Macca, just not Sylvia.

Yep, we all get it wrong on players ... embarrassingly so sometimes.

At least when you sprout it out at the pub people are prone to forget what you've said ... but on the net? There's no escape

You know who'll cop it if Brayshaw and Petracca turn out to be stars - Barry (for his previous lottery picks) I can't wait.

agree 100% about the draft being a lottery pick, macca

if you think about petracca an brayshaw, it was a no-brainer though. everybody else would have done exactly the same

and it is also probably true about most of our top 10 picks over the last 8 years

the real drafting skill, if there is such a thing, probably occurs more in the 11-40 pick range

robbie grey was considered a super talent and a bit lazy, a bit soft, and injury-prone his underage year. went pick 55 iirc.

it took him years to a) get his body right and b) have the desire to get the most out of himself. ironically a severe knee injury may have been the catalyst for the change.

he's been flying for two seasons now.

Robbie Grey also has a lot more talent than Col, that's why he could turn it around.

agree 100% about the draft being a lottery pick, macca

if you think about petracca an brayshaw, it was a no-brainer though. everybody else would have done exactly the same

and it is also probably true about most of our top 10 picks over the last 8 years

the real drafting skill, if there is such a thing, probably occurs more in the 11-40 pick range

I don't wish to bring bad luck but Scully & Trengove* were largely no-brainers too. Fingers crossed we get lucky this time.

But a lot of people won't see the 'luck' bit ... for them it will be great recruiting this time around and how bad the previous people were (with their choices)

I will point the finger at the club for any number of mistakes but not necessarily for our top end drafting**

Agree to a large extent on the 11-40 range - there's luck all the way through though ... and injuries (Luke Molan)

*There's still time for Trengove - he hasn't given up so why should we?

**Specifically picks 1 through to 5.