Training - Wednesday 27th November, 2013

[jabberwocky 2,301]

Keeping possession is extremely important.

There is nothing more important than winning contested footy in the course of a game.

Get it, then keep it, then score.

It isn't even debatable.

[old dee 23,255]

Keeping possession is extremely important.

There is nothing more important than winning contested footy in the course of a game.

Get it, then keep it, then score.

It isn't even debatable.

I maybe mistaken JW but we seem to fail badly at stage one

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,534]

That's interesting.

We have 4 players in the Top 100 Contested Possession winners in the AFL: Jones, Viney, Cross, and McKenzie. So Toumpas isn't really our problem here.

For those interested: Clisby, Vince, and Matt Jones are our only players in the Top 100 Uncontested Possession winners.

What is this stat a measure of? Given Viney, Clisby and McKenzie each missed many games for one reason or another, I'm guessing it's not raw numbers. Is it the proportion of contested to uncontested?

[jabberwocky 2,301]

I maybe mistaken JW but we seem to fail badly at stage one

We have been horrible at the lot, and we need to improve every area.

[rpfc 27,673]

Keeping possession is extremely important.

There is nothing more important than winning contested footy in the course of a game.

Get it, then keep it, then score.

It isn't even debatable.

Can I say that they are both of equal importance. Winning contested footy gets you the ball, but running to space and 'spreading' would be the 'keeping' part.

You can't get it started without winning contested footy, but the middle and the end (goals) require run and spread.

[Redleg 38,436]

We don't seem to get the ball much rpfc

Disagree, we get it, but turn it over at the first opportunity.

The Hawks are masters at keeping possession.

[rpfc 27,673]

What is this stat a measure of? Given Viney, Clisby and McKenzie each missed many games for one reason or another, I'm guessing it's not raw numbers. Is it the proportion of contested to uncontested?

It's the ave contested and uncontested ball winners in the AFL.

I missed Cross in the Uncontested Possies: he would come in just behind Clisby in that stat.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,534]

It's the ave contested and uncontested ball winners in the AFL.

I missed Cross in the Uncontested Possies: he would come in just behind Clisby in that stat.

Thanks rpfc. Quite obvious, really.

[jabberwocky 2,301]

Can I say that they are both of equal importance. Winning contested footy gets you the ball, but running to space and 'spreading' would be the 'keeping' part.

You can't get it started without winning contested footy, but the middle and the end (goals) require run and spread.

Your game plan must be centred around the opposition kicking a lot of behinds or getting a lot of soft frees.

I can tell you now that the Roos game plan will be based on winning clearances and beating opponents around the ground then on keeping the footy.

Contested ball winning is the most important skill of a footballer. You would struggle to find an afl coach who would disagree.

It's why Carey, Matthews, dunstall Ablett etc have flags and are considered greats. They could do the lot.

I am actually very surprised to be even having this debate with people who I actually rate as decent students of the game.

It is just so fundamental.

Edited November 29, 2013 by jabberwocky

[rpfc 27,673]

Your game plan must be centred around the opposition kicking a lot of behinds or getting a lot of soft frees.

I can tell you now that the Roos game plan will be based on winning clearances and beating opponents around the ground then on keeping the footy.

Contested ball winning is the most important skill of a footballer. You would struggle to find an afl coach who would disagree.

It's why Carey, Matthews, dunstall Ablett etc have flags and are considered greats. They could do the lot.

I am actually very surprised to be even having this debate with people who I actually rate as decent students of the game.

It is just so fundamental.

That first line is a bit facetious.

If your team cannot spread after winning the footy, you won't get it anywhere and you will turn it over.

I agree that winning the footy is important, but you need the other half of the offensive side of footy to maximise what you have 'won' and score. When we talk about the importance of kicking in today's game it is because there is so much ball in space and the need to hit targets when you should hit targets is more paramount.

It is also easier to improve that side of a teams offensive game. While it is difficult to improve a players contested footy quickly - a desire to work hard and run can improve their ability to get the footy in space and use it to the teams benefit.

I mention that last line because it is something that Roos will be able to instill more quickly than being better with the contested footy - all it requires is confidence and the desire to run and work hard. Any body shape can get UPs at any age, whereas winning contested footy requires players predisposed to winning it and they are better served if their bodies can handle to work in there.

The best teams will be proficient in both, they are both important to winning games of footy.

[dazzledavey36 49,739]

[rjay 24,182]

I maybe mistaken JW but we seem to fail badly at stage one

Yep 'old dee', as you are alluding to…you have to get it before you can keep it.

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

Some of my posts may have added more than necessary.

Here's another.

The contested versus uncontested possession argument is silly. They are both as important as each other. Some players' strengths are at winning them, others are more valuable winning the ball on the outside. All need to improve on their weaker areas, a given.

Anyone that thinks Toumpas needs to become a contested ball winning machine in order to become elite is kidding themselves. He obviously needs improvement in the area.

As others have pointed out. Hawthorn are the premier side because they win plenty of contested ball and keep it off their opponents on the outside.

There is no 'most important'.

Edited November 29, 2013 by stevethemanjordan

[rjay 24,182]

Anyone that thinks Toumpas needs to become a contested ball winning machine in order to become elite is kidding themselves. He obviously needs improvement in the area.

The only comments I've seen suggest that he could improve his contested ball stats, that seems fair comment.

Some of the posts have been taken way out of context.

[Hannibal 5,814]

Anyone that thinks Toumpas needs to become a contested ball winning machine in order to become elite is kidding themselves. He obviously needs improvement in the area.

Who has said this ?

Quotes. Thanks.

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

Who has said this ? Quotes. Thanks.

I'm not quoting anyone. I'm just giving my opinion.

You said he needs to 'drastically' improve his contested ball winning ability, which in my mind would translate to him becoming a contested ball winner mainly. I could have left out the machine part. Let's leave it.

Difference of measures.

[jabberwocky 2,301]

Yep 'old dee', as you are alluding to…you have to get it before you can keep it.

It really is that simple.

[Hannibal 5,814]

You said he needs to 'drastically' improve his contested ball winning ability, which in my mind would translate to him becoming a contested ball winner mainly. I could have left out the machine part. Let's leave it.

Difference of measures.

Obtuse.

[low flying Robbo 979]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obFHu7DCsEs

[DeeSpencer 23,637]

All I know from watching training so far is that Roos has the team focusing on run, spread and moving the ball quickly and following up. These drills are designed to improve uncontested ball movement from half back and the middle of the ground.

He also does a lot of little drills focusing on picking the ball off the deck and handballing in close. These drills work on the skills needed for contested ball winning and translated those contests in to uncontested ball.

Are we back on track yet?

[rjay 24,182]

All I know from watching training so far is that Roos has the team focusing on run, spread and moving the ball quickly and following up. These drills are designed to improve uncontested ball movement from half back and the middle of the ground.

He also does a lot of little drills focusing on picking the ball off the deck and handballing in close. These drills work on the skills needed for contested ball winning and translated those contests in to uncontested ball.

Are we back on track yet?

Looks like we are working on getting the ball and keeping it. Fair chance we are heading in the right direction.