the difference is that the journos "saw" us tanking. they made up their minds from what they could see.

we say nothing in the media during investigation and everyone wonders why not, even though it was faceless "ex players" commenting.

they say nothing and its a good move, even though we know who it was who is accusing them.

I reckon the reason Dank says he injected Hird was to use him as a "smokescreen".

It must be known he used the illegal substance, but not on whom.

Therefore, if he can suggest it was only given to non-players, both Dank, and the Essendon players are guilt-free.

So Hirdy has to"take one for the team".

Trouble is, Hird is denying it.

What is inescapable is the fact that the Ess admin didn't know exactly WHAT their players were being given. It's amazing that an experienced and respected club doctor, like Bruce Reid, could have let this happen.

I see James has changed his story today.....he DID get injected twice!!!

Perhaps he's just realised the implications of denial......the drugs must have been given to players if they weren't given to him.Hes decided to " take one for the team".

Danny Wielder who is a sydney 9 journo said on mmm brekafast he has more text messages. I have no ideas how a sydney journo got them but said he has about 6 mths worth.

Anyway Im just hoping for a essendon loss tonight.

Danny Wielder who is a sydney 9 journo said on mmm brekafast he has more text messages. I have no ideas how a sydney journo got them but said he has about 6 mths worth.

Anyway Im just hoping for a essendon loss tonight.

Dank is in Sydney isn't he?

If the players get off, the NRL will lose their sh!t if Cronulla gets what everyone thinks will come.

Lecras back after 3 weeks with a broken arm. Surely Essendon aren't the only club to have (allegedly) dabbled. Mark's team for a good while I'd reckon.

Ridiculous comment... sports medicine and treatment of fractures etc is extremely advanced. I've seen MotoGP riders come back from leg fractures to be riding in just a few short weeks. Besides, do we know how serious the break was?

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/hird-should-consider-standing-down-demetriou-20130412-2hpff.html

Demetrriou knows a lot more than we do, and he knows they are screwed. He basically sounds like he wants to get the investigation over so they can figure out how to punish them.

This is really ugly now.

Lecras back after 3 weeks with a broken arm. Surely Essendon aren't the only club to have (allegedly) dabbled. Mark's team for a good while I'd reckon.

It's got to be some kind of record surely, excluding Darren Milane playing with a broken thumb?

It's got to be some kind of record surely, excluding Darren Milane playing with a broken thumb?

and jimmy with broken ribs

and jimmy with broken ribs

How could I forget DC?.... another record Jimmy holds...

The plot just keeps on thickening! http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-04-11/hird-given-drug-report

I do have a shred of sympathy for Essendon supporters who are experiencing the trial by media like we did.

It all seems a bit to far fetched - surely Hird would not be so stupid? - Text messages?

If you had asked me before this scandal if I would want another club kicked out of the comp I would have seriously considered it but this is going to be a loss to the game and imagine how the supporters would feel.

And now emails: http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-04-12/emails-reveal-hirds-supplement-guidelines

Hird states that any supplement given to players "must not harm the player" and "must not be illegal (according to WADA and AFL drug guidelines)".

It also says players are to be given right of refusal before taking any supplement, and must not talk about the supplement program to anyone other than Hird, Robinson, Dr Reid or Dank, as it is the club's "competitive advantage".

You know what I understand the Dons fans pain, I have no empathy for them. After what our club and us has fans, supporters, members went through I am happy to see the spot light somewhere else. Once it is done and dusted then I will empathise with them.

They dished it on our players last Sunday. I will not do that to Essendon when they are punished but I do believe that any sanction they receive will be deserved.

F:)ck Essendon supporters and their club... they would be the first to spit on the dees if the club went down. However, like some of their players and hope that their legacies arnt ruined by this crap. Jobe Watson should come play for the Dees :-D

It's got to be some kind of record surely, excluding Darren Milane playing with a broken thumb?

Dwayne Lamb did it in exactly the same time frame when he broke an arm in the ealry 90's

You know what I understand the Dons fans pain, I have no empathy for them. After what our club and us has fans, supporters, members went through I am happy to see the spot light somewhere else. Once it is done and dusted then I will empathise with them.

The more I learn about this investigation the more I'm reminded of the lovely gentlemen in a corporate box who screamed out at 3/4 time on Saturday night 'Crush them Bombers, wipe these weak pricks out of the league'.

The worm is turning. I look forward to the mass player exodus they've brought on themselves.

After Essendon wankers stood over the race abusing our team, they can go and get farked. Rocketed to the very top of my most hated list. Hope the club gets taken to the cleaners.

What has Hird actually done wrong?

What has Hird actually done wrong?

From this: http://www.heraldsun.com.au/afl/teams/essendon-coach-james-hird-is-vulnerable-to-sanction-by-the-afl/story-e6frf9l6-1226618594524

Coaches and club officials are allowed to take prohibited substances under Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority guidelines* but not traffic or administer drugs to players.

"Coaches can be captured under the WADA code, the rules are very specific surrounding coaches and their influence over players in the taking of illegal substances on the WADA list," - Vlad.

What has Hird actually done wrong?

Conduct unbecoming, bringing game into disrepute?

What has Hird actually done wrong?

reverse tanking

What has Hird actually done wrong?

Is this a serious question? Even if if his players have not used any banned substances, or indeed he hasn't, not only was he aware of the whole supplement regime and highly sketchy practices (off site injections, iv drips, ignoring warnings/concerns raised by the most experienced doctor in the league etc etc) he would appear to have had a high degree of control over it. This is on his head.

The other thing is his email with the three non negotiable One was that players could not be harmed. It would appear players were given a cocktail of drugs that even if not banned would appear to have unclear health impacts (i assume particularly in combination).

How could they be confident that such a mix (combined with a regime that Ings has said is really pushing boundaries) would not negatively impact on players health. In fact they had an epidemic of soft tissue injuries. Surely it is possible this are in some way linked to supplement program.

Hird and the bombers have brought the game into disripute in a way that has no comparison in terms of damage I have little doubt a factor in the ultimate fine and penalties applied at Melbourne were to give the AFL a yardstick, a precedent to guide them in the penalties they will hit Essendon with - a sense of scale if you like, so te public are psychologically ready to accept the penalties they will mete out.

Even if things remain as they are the bombers are going to be smashed (and AD seemed to hint there is more to come). if the dees can be hit with a $500 k fine and CC 12 months out I reckon we will be seeing a fine in the vicinity of $5 million for essendon and 2-3 years out of the game for Hird (if not longer)

What has Hird actually done wrong?

Two items that Dank has openly admitted are 1. possession of a prohibited substance and 2. administration of a prohibited method (use of IV infusions without hospital admission). Despite some horrible reporting to the contrary, both of these apply to club officials, as well as players (and both Dank and Hird are/were Officials for the purposes of the AFL anti doping code).

I've put some more detail in post #1219.

The question is whether Hird will admit it, but Dank's word should be enough.

However, I believe that neither the AFL nor ASADA want to pursue these points.

Two items that Dank has openly admitted are 1. possession of a prohibited substance and 2. administration of a prohibited method (use of IV infusions without hospital admission). Despite some horrible reporting to the contrary, both of these apply to club officials, as well as players (and both Dank and Hird are/were Officials for the purposes of the AFL anti doping code).

I've put some more detail in post #1219.

The question is whether Hird will admit it, but Dank's word should be enough.

However, I believe that neither the AFL nor ASADA want to pursue these points.

The bit I disagree with is 'Dank's word should be enough'. I would be hard pressed to name a more murkier character. I don't feel sorry for Essendon but I think Hird's up against a bloke with a very interesting rep. The key will be the paper trail.

I'll also add, if the players have been on a program of sorts, it brings forward the horrifying possibility that a team under an enormous cloud could go deep into finals at the expense of a clean team.