Neeld is not the problem

[RalphiusMaximus 5,993]

If Choco is our coach next year I would be asking for a 5 year contract if I were him.

With penalty clauses for the club if it terminates early.

[Cheap Seats 3,303]

. If Choco is our coach next year I would be asking for a 5 year contract if I were him.

Would it matter?

In all seriousness though - how do people think sacking Neeld will attract a good coach?

When the time get tough the board fire them? Who'd want to come to this basketcase?? Seriously do people really believe Roos and Chocco will be fighting each other for this job? Not to mention how are we going to pay $1 mil a year salary - Maybe a few players can chip in?

[Cheap Seats 3,303]

pm - some of what Neeld has done has been very beneficial to the future of the club and for the prospects for the players at this club to reach their potential (namely with the upgrade in training standards). Not everything he has done has been a disaster and not everything we have seen from his teams has been deplorable.

Unfortunately, the critical mass of deplorable has been reached and his time is borrowed.

The players have to respond to mirror any good work a coach has done. The have to illustrate with their performances a scope of improvement that instils confidence in their coach from those at the club, the sponsors, the members, and the supporters in general.

The improvement has been fleeting, overshadowed, and too infrequent. What does it matter when you play a solid 4 quarters against Richmond when the next week you are 7 goals down at quarter time against Fremantle. What does 70 tackles mean when you are beaten by 95 points?

I hope we can get our whole house in order soon, and unfortunately for Neeld, his family, his fans, and the whole of the Demon community who hoped different - we will have a caretaker coach soon, and a new coach in 2014.

This analysis of our list rpfc - would you give the same to a GC or GWS??

Because thats the level we are on - Should GC have sacked McKenna last year? THe media butchered McKenna last year - Fat boy Hutchy on footy classifieds argued till he was red in the face McKenna couldn't coach.... looks like a muppet now

I am not saying you are wrong but do you take factors like we are young and are going to be up and down in to account? We are not the saints we don't have an elite midfield we never have. How do you come to these conclusions?

Not to mention by sacking Neeld on borrowed time (your term) what coach would want to come in to this club and rebuild??? When the times get tought this weak club folds to pressure?? Great enviroment clearly a successful breeding ground we are promoting

Edited June 2, 2013 by Unleash Hell

[RalphiusMaximus 5,993]

The simple fact is that Melbourne will not attract a top line coach to replace Neeld. Who would stake their reputation on a club that routinely breaks it's contracts and hangs it's coaches out to dry? Anyone with any stature in the industry is going to give us a wide berth because there is no way in hell that they can trust the board to be behind them. I woudn't take a job at a place like that. I'm pretty sure nobody else on these forums would either. Do you think professional coaches would?

Yet another reason why sacking Neeld is lunacy.

[baysidedave 246]

"COACHES SHOULDN'T HAVE TO COACH EFFORT AT AFL LEVEL" - Chris Dawes 19/05/2013

Despite all that has been said about Neeld, I refuse to crucify him based on what has been produced by this playing group.

Unless we see week in, week out effort from this lazy as sin playing group, I don't think we can see what Neeld has to deliver.

IT'S THE PLAYERS, STUPID!

l agree, l like Neeld but something is bloody rotten to the core at Demons and needs to be fixed NOW

[pm24 451]

I've got a gut feel that Neeld is the type of coach with a plan that Peter Jackson might actually think is the right person for the job. I don't know why, as I said, it's just a gut feel.

I also wonder how many of those who say they trust Peter Jackson, but want Neeld gone, will still say they trust Jackson if he chooses to keep Neeld for not just this season, but also next season???

[pm24 451]

l agree, l like Neeld but something is bloody rotten to the core at Demons and needs to be fixed NOW

Something has been rotten with the club for some time. Only when Neeld, Craig, Misson and co took over did we actually start to address those issues. That's part of the reason, in my opinion, why it's taking time.

Edited June 2, 2013 by pm24

[Cheap Seats 3,303]

Something has been rotten with the club for some time. Only when Neeld, Craig, Misson and co took over did we actually start to address those issues. That's part of the reason, in my opinion, why it's taking time.

Dawes comments tonight in the presser confirm that I reckon

We are moving forward but it's going to take time - It's a fine line we are walking 95 point losses are not acceptable but the opposition were also very very good.... Hwaks always impress me live

I was happy to hear tackles and 1% are up - surely thats a good indication we are heading in the right direction....

In saying that there is no going back to round 2 - Neeld and everyone should be accountable

Edited June 2, 2013 by Unleash Hell

[Sir Why You Little 34,658]

I love the inconsistencies of some of the anti-Neeld comments here: First the sign that he had lost the players was the lack of effort. Now in the last two weeks they have had over 70 tackles, and today in particular, showed a great deal of effort, but despite acknowledging that effort, Neeld still should go?? I love the statements that say there is no gameplan, but no explanation as to why they say this, or the failure to consider that we have a very inexperienced team out on the field each week who are still learning to play AFL level footy.

I will actually be [censored] off with the club if the choose to sack Neeld not just tomorrow, but even at the end of the season. I like the direction that club is taking with the rebuild. I've read and heard numerous media commentators argue that our list lacked players in that 22-26 age bracket with 100 games experience, and that was before Neeld. They were saying that under Bailey. Guess what, it's still a problem and its part of what has lead to the rebuild. We don't have the luxury of a group of 100 game mid fielders to trot out there on a weekly basis. The only way for this club to improve is to develop the young players, and it takes time.

Another reason I will be annoyed if they sack Neeld, is because I believe it would be a very WEAK act by the club to do so. It shows that the club will succumb to the pressure from the media and football public, and does not have the guts to stick with its plans. It shows that the club is reactive, not proactive. It would also have a negative effect on the players. You can't just keep swapping coaches over hoping one might satisfy every player.

After what's been said about Moloney, I'm glad I don't have to see him in the red and blue any more. The guy might have had skill to play football, but if he's going to be so selfish that he cracks a tantrum when he doesn't get his way, and acts detrimental to the team, the as far as I'm concerned he should have been removed. This isn't the first time he's done it either apparently. I've had a colleague speak directly with Paul Couch (due to Tom being on the Rookie list) and Paul Couch said he did the same thing when he was at Geelong. If he didn't get what he wanted, he lowered his head and pouted around.

To me the list moves that have been made have been good for the club. The experience and character of guys like Rodan and Byrnes provides something we did not previously have, that is guys with finals/premiership experience.

I also have one key question to the Anti-Neeld people. IF Neeld was/is such a bad coach, why would a player who has already played in a team he has coached, then leave that team to come to Melbourne? Think about that for a moment. If you were in a work place and one of the managers absolutely sucked, would you then choose to go and work under that Manager at a new company?

Dawes chose to come to Melbourne after already having a good experience with Neeld in Collingwood. I'm going to trust the opinion of a guy who has played in a premiership winning side, over a guy like Moloney when determining if Neeld can coach. It is also notable to me, that many of the new additions have nothing but praise for Neeld. Clarke has always been positive about things. Byrnes and Rodan as well.

So if the new guys we've brought in, who are experienced players, are saying positive things about Neeld, it leads me to question the opinion of ex-players like Moloney, who didn't see eye to ey with Neeld. I then hear guys like Cale Morton comment on our poor training standards pre-Neeld when compared to West Coast, who also said that he thinks we'll get there, and can't help but think we are on the right path.

This is the type of rebuild we needed to a long time ago. The culture and lack of leadership has put us into this position and it takes time to dig out of it. Give me a few more years of pain anyday if it's going to mean a stronger culture, and a stronger club for the next 20 years!

You speak very well pm24. You may even change my opinion tonight.

Having just watched the press conference with Neeld & Dawes it was his most impressive effort this year to the media.

Neeld is a fighter. I believe Chris Dawes should be made Captain this week.

He is a leader. It's all over him.

Grimes & Trengove need to learn. They are too young.

Tomorrow i hope is a long meeting.

Going deep into the night.

If Neeld survives tomorrow i will back the result, but he must make the players more accountable on match day. It IS up to them.

Chris Dawes is a gem. He could become an MFC Legend.

[Cheap Seats 3,303]

You speak very well pm24. You may even change my opinion tonight.

Having just watched the press conference with Neeld & Dawes it was his most impressive effort this year to the media.

Neeld is a fighter. I believe Chris Dawes should be made Captain this week.

He is a leader. It's all over him.

Grimes & Trengove need to learn. They are too young.

Tomorrow i hope is a long meeting.

Going deep into the night.

If Neeld survives tomorrow i will back the result, but he must make the players more accountable on match day. It IS up to them.

Chris Dawes is a gem. He could become an MFC Legend.

That point there is a really good one WYL...... I reckon we'll see Dawes and Jones as captains in 2014 - unless injured can we afford to strip the young blokes mid yera? Surely there has been enough negatives for 2013

Don't tell me you are on the reality bus wyl

Am joking around - I hate us getting smashed but it can't be all doom and gloom??? That presser tonight did give me some confidence as well, we need to continue the hard work......

Edited June 2, 2013 by Unleash Hell

[Pates 9,537]

The more i think about it the more I hope the McLardy does a presser with Neeld tomorrow saying he's got the year, and the position will be reviewed at the end of the season. For multiple reasons but if nothing else to make reporters such as John Ralph look like the wankers they are.

I don't know about anyone else, but I don't feel the same despair and anger that I did after 186. We played a very well drilled team today and were beaten in skill not effort.

[Cheap Seats 3,303]

The more i think about it the more I hope the McLardy does a presser with Neeld tomorrow saying he's got the year, and the position will be reviewed at the end of the season. For multiple reasons but if nothing else to make reporters such as John Ralph look like the wankers they are.

I don't know about anyone else, but I don't feel the same despair and anger that I did after 186. We played a very well drilled team today and were beaten in skill not effort.

Agree 100% Pates

Love the bit about sticking up the reporters as well

Edited June 2, 2013 by Unleash Hell

[rjay 23,950]

Good posts from 'pm' & 'macca'...differing points of view but still well put. I agree with a lot 'macca' has said in the past about the coaching side of things and I think any supporter will wonder why a coach does certain things, it's these arguments that help make the game.

I also appreciate that Neeld is playing a long game in a world that demands the short game. I appreciate what he is trying to do and the courage he has to keep at it under enormous pressure. I just feel at times that he is too focussed and inflexible, and that is he is pushing through his program at any cost. Sometimes you need to reflect and understand the whole of the story not just one part.

I will pick you up on one thing though 'pm', Dawes coming across can't really be seen as an endorsement of Neeld as a coach. There is a vast difference between being an assistant and being the boss. I've told the story before of the Saints players I met telling me how Alves was a great assistant but had a brain/personality transplant when he got the main job and turned into a real .....

Having said that Dawes has really backed him up during the press conferences and on the ground and that is a positive.

I do think Neeld could take a lesson from Dawes in how to front the media but it isn't really his style, in Neeld's words 'that's ok'. He would be better off taking the Jeans approach and say very little, he does bury himself at times.

[Sir Why You Little 34,658]

That point there is a really good one WYL...... I reckon we'll see Dawes and Jones as captains in 2014 - unless injured can we afford to strip the young blokes mid yera? Surely there has been enough negatives for 2013

Don't tell me you are on the reality bus wyl

Am joking around - I hate us getting smashed but it can't be all doom and gloom??? That presser tonight did give me some confidence as well, we need to continue the hard work......

I just want the right decision to be made. This year looks like a trainwreck but if Neeld & co are tracking as they predicted then you cannot sack him.

The club should have been more open with the members.

We do need a new President. That i do know.

A strong personality to lead. Don is not that. Nice guy. But not a strong leader.

[Scoop Junior 2,992]

He has changed his tune regularly on the status of the list to suit his own purposes and image.

Couldn't agree more with this comment. This inconsistency gets to me and I think most supporters just see through his self-serving comments.

It's the old 'we know exactly where we're at' comment. Well we don't believe this because pre-season the talk was about seeing improvement quicker than outsiders thought and now it's about not expecting anything at all until at least next year! He says we're a little bit behind where we thought we'd be...a little bit!

I'll add this pearler from recent interviews which quite clearly shows his inconsistent and self-serving comments.

This from after the Fremantle game:

Neeld refused to accept his team's work rate was lacking after the Dockers feasted on uncontested possession to open a 71-point lead by halftime in the 19.16 (130) to 6.4 (40) defeat.

"I don't think the effort was too bad ... when you put three guys behind the ball, those numbers get skewed quite a bit," he said.

This from during the week:

Neeld said he was not looking for short term measures and was determined to develop his youngsters for the long term success of the club

Neeld said he choose not to flood the backline last week, when Melbourne was being dominated by Fremantle, because it wouldn’t help his team’s development.

“It would have been an easy thing to go and put all these numbers behind the ball, but we aren’t going to learn anything from that ... we are coaching to develop these players,” he said.

Absolutely extraordinary.

[P-man 13,224]

You speak very well pm24. You may even change my opinion tonight.

Having just watched the press conference with Neeld & Dawes it was his most impressive effort this year to the media.

Neeld is a fighter. I believe Chris Dawes should be made Captain this week.

He is a leader. It's all over him.

Grimes & Trengove need to learn. They are too young.

Tomorrow i hope is a long meeting.

Going deep into the night.

If Neeld survives tomorrow i will back the result, but he must make the players more accountable on match day. It IS up to them.

Chris Dawes is a gem. He could become an MFC Legend.

I enjoy your displays of passion, but my god you are reactive.

Every second week you announce that the death of the MFC is imminent. Dawes plays 3 half decent games and you call for him to be made captain (wtf?) and state that he could become a club LEGEND.

How are you even making that judgement without having watched a game since Round 2? Because of his well chosen words in a presser? Video snippets don't count. I know it's difficult, heartbreaking even, but you can't honestly expect anyone to take you seriously to comment on the progress of a team you're not even watching.

[angrydee 842]

Well WYL, I do watch every game and still rate Neeld below Denis Jones.

The players do the basics badly - poor development and coaching.

The players seem scared to take responsibilty - fearful of making errors which, of course, leads to errors - poor coaching

The players kick to positions rather than to where players are spreading - poor coaching

The players guard positions rather than opposition players - poor coaching

When momentum is with the opposition, the coach moves too many behind the ball - poor coaching

The coach seems slow to sense momentum shifts.

Neeld seems like a good bloke with a fair long term strategy. He doesn't have the experience or knowhow to implement it.

IMO, if he is kept on til the end of the year, the players will be very used to playing to almost empty houses and we will lose another million bucks.

If he's kept on, I hope I'm wrong.

When we do win the odd quarter, it seems to be because the opposition cruises (or in GWS's case - tires).

When the coach gives them a spray (v Freo and particularly today), we are then blown away again.

[Sir Why You Little 34,658]

I enjoy your displays of passion, but my god you are reactive.

Every second week you announce that the death of the MFC is imminent. Dawes plays 3 half decent games and you call for him to be made captain (wtf?) and state that he could become a club LEGEND.

How are you even making that judgement without having watched a game since Round 2? Because of his well chosen words in a presser? Video snippets don't count. I know it's difficult, heartbreaking even, but you can't honestly expect anyone to take you seriously to comment on the progress of a team you're not even watching.

Let's see what happens tomorrow is all i am saying.

Don't worry i have seen enough to have an opinion, and that is all it is.

Tomorrow is a very important meeting.

[Gorgoroth 12,331]

Dawes was not coached directly by Neeld so hard to use that as a endorsement as belief in his ability as a senior coach.

6 thousand Melbourne supporters showed up yesterday, that's the backing he has from th majority.

I hope I'm wrong and this week we smash the pies, but we won't and will get flogged again. If he had here loses under 10 goals there might be more leniency than he is getting.

But weare being routinely flogged.

If there is truth to the rumours of players wanting to leave then the board needs to weigh the players vs the coach into th equation as well.

I can not see him surviving after years end at most, I still think on the bye he will go.

[IvanBartul13 2,564]

Go to the source and stop listening to [censored] the reporters make up. What he said was (paraphrasing) that if the target was to have twelve wins by this stage of the year, they wouldn't have used pick three on a guy who can't play this year and pick four on a guy who'd had two hip surgeries and needs to be managed through the year with that in mind. This is all in context of having been at Sandringham on the weekend and marveled at how good a pickup Hogan is, lamenting that he can't play this year and also saying that Jimmy is a great talent, one of the best in the draft, but has to be managed a bit carefully until he's fully recovered from his operations. Obviously, if winning games in the short term were a priority he had been given they would have looked to get players who would have an immediate impact on the team as opposed to players who will be long-term successes.

And did trading a 1st round pick for a mature and drafting only two young players fit into this plan first year. He's changed his tune. There was no talk of a rebuild of a rebuild when he came in or everything centring around young players.. It was all Im gunna put structures and an elite plan in place and that is going to turn around the underperformance. Now to serve his own purpose he has changed to a rebuild of rebuild in mid-stride and its all about kids, who he scarcely gives opportunities to. Toumpas hip issue is a furphy, the only thing it did was make him miss a half-season of SANFL. He was right to go. Magner and Couch on the rookie list, Clisby, Terlich, M.Jones, Rodan, Byrnes. He sprouted "toughest team to beat" and "Moneyball" and not invested in kids at all - now to serve his own devices he is proclaiming we are all about the kids. Most of the players he's mentioned that hes playing under 50 games of experience aren't good enough anyway and arent really that young. Its a joke and he's taking the pi$s. It would be ok if we were getting pumped by 80 points if there were 6 or 7 promising kids in the team, but there arent. Sad thing for Neeld is that maybe he can coach and maybe his vision for the running of the club was excellent, but politically he has been nitemarish and the prosecution of his plan has been horrendous - and for that, he will go.

Edited June 2, 2013 by goodoil

[tonatopia 278]

I find it strange that many of the key indicators were met during the Hawks game yet we lost by 100 points.

How is it possible to meet the coaches targets for key indicators like tackles, clearances, 1%'s and still get such a towelling. I think that raises more questions than answers about his coaching strategy and game style.

I have played lots of football at Division1 level. I know a little bit about football. The latest 'trend' in football, is to approach the game like it is a science. No-one does it better than Neeld. He takes the emotion and spirit out of the game, and peels it back to stats, figures & strategy. This is his philosophy and the philosophy our clubs has signed up to.

I have a different approach to footy. Sure, your fitness and skills need to be elite, which requires work, and you need a simple yet effective gameplan, with the coach using a multiple of contingency gameplans if required. But the most important element in football is spirit and emotion. This is what Neeld does not understand, nor believe in.

Spirit is what kept Jimmy Stynes playing 265 odd games in a row and gave our club great enthusiasm in our bottom years of 07-11.

Spirit is what got our club to win the last 5 games of 1987 to get us into the finals and give Robbie Flower his first and only finals campaign, to which we nearly made the GF.

Spirit is what won us 8,1/2 games in 2011 with a very young list and raw gameplan.

Spirit is what kept Robert Dipierdomenico playing 4 quarters of footy in a GF with broken ribs and a punctured lung.

Neeld and the board must understand that Spirit it the key ingredient, and only a few coaches in the land can instill a great team spirit. The gameplan will evolve, but it is the spirit that must be developed and worked on and refined to become almost invincible.

Neeld aint the man to develop spirit. He has proven this over the last 30 odd games. He aint the one.

[Pipefitter 2,024]

The inconsistency of his message may be his downfall. I don't buy that this was a rebuild when he took over. This only started coming up a few rounds in this season. Neeld seemed shocked round one last year. And shocked again this year. If it was a proper rebuild we wouldn't have brought in all those spuds this season.

[Dr John Dee 1,057]

The simple fact is that Melbourne will not attract a top line coach to replace Neeld. Who would stake their reputation on a club that routinely breaks it's contracts and hangs it's coaches out to dry? Anyone with any stature in the industry is going to give us a wide berth because there is no way in hell that they can trust the board to be behind them. I woudn't take a job at a place like that. I'm pretty sure nobody else on these forums would either. Do you think professional coaches would?

Yet another reason why sacking Neeld is lunacy.

Roman Abramovic says hi.

[mdemonski2 403]

I find it strange that many of the key indicators were met during the Hawks game yet we lost by 100 points.

How is it possible to meet the coaches targets for key indicators like tackles, clearances, 1%'s and still get such a towelling. I think that raises more questions than answers about his coaching strategy and game style.

I have played lots of football at Division1 level. I know a little bit about football. The latest 'trend' in football, is to approach the game like it is a science. No-one does it better than Neeld. He takes the emotion and spirit out of the game, and peels it back to stats, figures & strategy. This is his philosophy and the philosophy our clubs has signed up to.

I have a different approach to footy. Sure, your fitness and skills need to be elite, which requires work, and you need a simple yet effective gameplan, with the coach using a multiple of contingency gameplans if required. But the most important element in football is spirit and emotion. This is what Neeld does not understand, nor believe in.

Spirit is what kept Jimmy Stynes playing 265 odd games in a row and gave our club great enthusiasm in our bottom years of 07-11.

Spirit is what got our club to win the last 5 games of 1987 to get us into the finals and give Robbie Flower his first and only finals campaign, to which we nearly made the GF.

Spirit is what won us 8,1/2 games in 2011 with a very young list and raw gameplan.

Spirit is what kept Robert Dipierdomenico playing 4 quarters of footy in a GF with broken ribs and a punctured lung.

Neeld and the board must understand that Spirit it the key ingredient, and only a few coaches in the land can instill a great team spirit. The gameplan will evolve, but it is the spirit that must be developed and worked on and refined to become almost invincible.

Neeld aint the man to develop spirit. He has proven this over the last 30 odd games. He aint the one.

Did we win 8.5 games in 2011? Would take that any day at the moment. Hey do you reckon bailey is available?

[IvanBartul13 2,564]

The simple fact is that Melbourne will not attract a top line coach to replace Neeld. Who would stake their reputation on a club that routinely breaks it's contracts and hangs it's coaches out to dry? Anyone with any stature in the industry is going to give us a wide berth because there is no way in hell that they can trust the board to be behind them. I woudn't take a job at a place like that. I'm pretty sure nobody else on these forums would either. Do you think professional coaches would?

Yet another reason why sacking Neeld is lunacy.

People we will see he has been sacked due to performance and as for the breaking of the contract he will get his money paid and be able to apply for and acquire a coaching role at another club straightaway because he is that good! It wouldnt be a bad result for Neeld.