Solving the culture problem - rehabilitating the players of the 00s

[Striker475 696]

Now, there's the other problem. I think we need to fix the culture by bringing back someone who knows the club and loves the club. Furthermore, it could be a spark to re-enfranchise other players who were mistreated by Bailey.

For a start, I think we should give serious thought to offering Junior the midfield coach role. Royal can't coach. Junior not only knows many of the players, but he would also generate immediate respect from them as their former captain. Furthermore, he's only recently out of the game, and thus knows what is expected.

From there, we can look at folding through other players. The likes of Bruce, Yze and White should all be brought back as mentors. Say what you will about the inconsistency of the Melbourne sides of the 00s, they bloody well could play. And all those blokes weren't Trappa lazy either - they worked their arses off to make sure they were fit and firing.

Thoughts?

[angrydee 842]

He's still an assistant at GWS - I think

[Striker475 696]

He's still an assistant at GWS - I think

When has that stopped others? Maybe wait until season's end, but beyond that I'd say he's fair game.

[Hellish Inferno 992]

Isn't Woewodin a decent coach now?

[wisedog 352]

I think Melbourne was more or less on track in their development after the 2010 season, but we passed a tipping point with the sacking of James McDonald. In 2 years we had lost Whelan, Robertson, Wheatley, Mclean, Bruce, McDonald and Miller. 1000 games of experience out the door.

In retrospect, we can see that high draft picks aren't the be all and end all and that simply 'playing the kids' ahead of experienced players won't fast track their development, quite the opposite.

We should have identified a core group 4 - 6 players (regardless of age) who best represented the culture of the club and given them the responsibility of educating the next generation of players.

Bottom out completely, as Melbourne have done and whatever spirit, culture and morale that previously existed is completely destroyed.

[Chook 15,012]

I think the absolute best thing this club could possibly do is hire James McDonald as our midfield coach as soon as possible, for all the reasons you just mentioned.

[MadAsHell 4,212]

Now, there's the other problem. I think we need to fix the culture by bringing back someone who knows the club and loves the club. Furthermore, it could be a spark to re-enfranchise other players who were mistreated by Bailey.

For a start, I think we should give serious thought to offering Junior the midfield coach role. Royal can't coach. Junior not only knows many of the players, but he would also generate immediate respect from them as their former captain. Furthermore, he's only recently out of the game, and thus knows what is expected.

From there, we can look at folding through other players. The likes of Bruce, Yze and White should all be brought back as mentors. Say what you will about the inconsistency of the Melbourne sides of the 00s, they bloody well could play. And all those blokes weren't Trappa lazy either - they worked their arses off to make sure they were fit and firing.

Thoughts?

Not a bad idea. Would love to see Junior come back as midfield coach.

If things don't improve for Neeld this year and they do look at hiring a new senior coach at the end of the year and can't get a Roos, Clarkson or Worsfold I'd love to see them throw everything at Brett Lovett.

I know it's only VFL, but if anyone ever watched any of the teams he coached, Frankston, Sandringham, Casey, they always played for him even though their lists often weren't that great. He seems to have an ability to take the players along with him with his game plan/coaching style. We could do with someone like that!

Isn't Woewodin a decent coach now?

Yep, he did very well coaching over in the WAFL for a few years and is now up with the Lions.

Would love to see him come back, from what I've heard he still loves the club also. Would also be a good midfield coach I would have thought.

[dazzledavey36 54,123]

Yze and Bruce already work for hawthorn. Jeff White lives up in QLD and he is very happy up there. still does a bit of work for GC. Mcdonald is still at GWS and woey at Brisbane.

[Guest rednblue4life]

Yze and Bruce already work for hawthorn. Jeff White lives up in QLD and he is very happy up there. still does a bit of work for GC. Mcdonald is still at GWS and woey at Brisbane.

This is a clear example of a culture problem we have, we never sent off our loyal serving players with respect for this reason they wont come back, i hate seeing Adem Yze and Cam Bruce on the Dawks bench they should be with us

[Tricky 341]

Good call i reckon Striker475.

Beg, borrow, steal - whatever it takes to get Jr back.

Might need to get rid of Connolly first?

[waynewussell 5,147]

Yes Striker 475... I don't know if James could be the answer as midfield coach but the sooner he is back in the MFC fold the better.

[45HG 1,539]

I think we need to fix the culture by bringing back someone who knows the club and loves the club.

Cameron Schwab loves the club - immensely. That's not the problem. To be honest, I'm not 100% what was.

I don't think we need people that love the club - we need people who are experts, top at what they do with a clear vision to how to make the club better and to implement it.

I do agree 100% that this club really lost something when we knifed our captain. Disgusting - it gets worse the more I think about it.

[Demon_Tingles 211]

I raised this topic on Woewodin last week in another thread. He is a perfect fit for us .. our midfield is shite at the moment. No doubt we have talent but we have no one who appears able to harness the talent. Woewodin has done wonders with East Fremantle in the WAFL and Brisbane now and yes he still loves the MFC I go to the Brownlow and speak to him about Melbourne and he really does love the club.

[Guest rednblue4life]

why not start a thread Get rid of Royal

[PJ_12345 1,098]

Now, there's the other problem. I think we need to fix the culture by bringing back someone who knows the club and loves the club. Furthermore, it could be a spark to re-enfranchise other players who were mistreated by Bailey.

For a start, I think we should give serious thought to offering Junior the midfield coach role. Royal can't coach. Junior not only knows many of the players, but he would also generate immediate respect from them as their former captain. Furthermore, he's only recently out of the game, and thus knows what is expected.

From there, we can look at folding through other players. The likes of Bruce, Yze and White should all be brought back as mentors. Say what you will about the inconsistency of the Melbourne sides of the 00s, they bloody well could play. And all those blokes weren't Trappa lazy either - they worked their arses off to make sure they were fit and firing.

Thoughts?

It's clear MN's has adopted a 'fresh start' strategy.

He did this by bringing in new staff, Misson, Craig, by restructuring the leadership team and with the young Jack's as captains.

It would be counterproductive to then bring in old staff and to re-create an old culture.

Culture either permits or denies strategy and should reflect it.

Interesting to note that CS was one of the only staff to there since DB was coach - his exit keeps in line with this strategy.

Edited April 9, 2013 by PJ_12345

[Tricky 341]

It's clear MN's has adopted a 'fresh start' strategy.

He did this by bringing in new staff, Misson, Craig, by restructuring the leadership team and with the young Jack's as captains.

It would be counterproductive to then bring in old staff and to re-create an old culture.

Culture either permits or denies strategy and should reflect it.

Interesting to note that CS was one of the only staff to there since DB was coach - his exit keeps in line with this strategy.

I think we should be flexible and intelligent enough to not throw the baby out with bathwater...(or in this case the "idea" of bringing the baby back)

No way was Jr anything but a good influence on the MFC culture and in IMO he epitomises many of the traits we are sorely missing (from what we see on field in any case).

Perhaps this is an emotional viewpoint, but perhaps that's not a bad thing.

[PJ_12345 1,098]

I think we should be flexible and intelligent enough to not throw the baby out with bathwater...(or in this case the "idea" of bringing the baby back)

No way was Jr anything but a good influence on the MFC culture and in IMO he epitomises many of the traits we are sorely missing (from what we see on field in any case).

Perhaps this is an emotional viewpoint, but perhaps that's not a bad thing.

Junior is a great guy and I have no doubt that he would be a good midfield coach - but when people are talking about culture they need to understand what in turn he would bring and if it fits with our current strategy.

(lol I was wondering if the beer had wiped this out of me since I studied it at uni)

He is like CS: I really like them, but they didn't fit with the overall strategy. This is something that cant be flexible, look at our current results for a good example of what happens when culture and strategy dont facilitate eachother.

Edited April 10, 2013 by PJ_12345

[Tricky 341]

Junior is a great guy and I have no doubt that he would be a good midfield coach - but when people are talking about culture they need to understand what in turn he would bring and if it fits with our current strategy.

(lol I was wondering if the beer had wiped this out of me since I studied it at uni)

He is like CS: I really like them, but they didn't fit with the overall strategy. This is something that cant be flexible, look at our current results for a good example of what happens when culture and strategy dont facilitate eachother.

I can see your point but in this case I think I'd need to understand a reason why he doesn't fit the strategy. (although Royal may be one)

[PJ_12345 1,098]

I can see your point but in this case I think I'd need to understand a reason why he doesn't fit the strategy. (although Royal may be one)

Too recent. I'd like someone who can come in without having gone through all the bs over the past few years and might possibly have bias or baggage.

It's tough pickings but I'd rather not bring someone in unless they fit the memo for the sake of bringing someone in. Possibly someone from another club?

[Johnny Karate 559]

I understand what the OP is getting at but I think the horse has bolted. What qualifications do they bring to the table other than them being former Melbourne players who were pushed out the door in an arguably ill considered manner?

It would be great to see them around the club now & again but "jobs for the boys" hasn't exactly been a raging success. See Connolly, Chris; Lyon, Garry.

[Bring Back Barassi 552]

dont forget about Carlton's midfield development coach

[Tricky 341]

Too recent. I'd like someone who can come in without having gone through all the bs over the past few years and might possibly have bias or baggage.

It's tough pickings but I'd rather not bring someone in unless they fit the memo for the sake of bringing someone in. Possibly someone from another club?

I understand what the OP is getting at but I think the horse has bolted. What qualifications do they bring to the table other than them being former Melbourne players who were pushed out the door in an arguably ill considered manner?

It would be great to see them around the club now & again but "jobs for the boys" hasn't exactly been a raging success. See Connolly, Chris; Lyon, Garry.

C'mon, where's your sense of sentimentalism?

An aside - where's Ratten these days?

[Pennant St Dee 13,054]

I raised this topic on Woewodin last week in another thread. He is a perfect fit for us .. our midfield is shite at the moment. No doubt we have talent but we have no one who appears able to harness the talent. Woewodin has done wonders with East Fremantle in the WAFL and Brisbane now and yes he still loves the MFC I go to the Brownlow and speak to him about Melbourne and he really does love the club.

You are spot on here, I spoke to Woey a few times whilst he was coaching at East Freo and he was very passionate about what he was doing with the club. He coaches as he played leaves no stone unturned and was heavily involved with their younger players and setting good culture. They were a bit of a basket case when he took over but he pointed them in the right direction and was not afraid to stand up to the two AFL clubs when they discussed wanting their players to play in certain positions.

Woey whilst very serious at times and focussed alaso had the flexibility to have a bit of a laugh with his players when the time was right. Can't comment on what is happening with him up at Brissy but I am aware he still loves the Dees and does not really talk about what occured when he moved to the Pies. He has moved on from there and would be a great asset to any clubin the AFL. Still a very fit guy as well and IMO would be good for our young mids

[H_T 3,043]

I think the absolute best thing this club could possibly do is hire James McDonald as our midfield coach as soon as possible, for all the reasons you just mentioned.

One thing Junior did do that I recall was get into Sylvia on a personal level about his consistency and what he wants out of footy and working harder. In 2010, Sylvia took more steps forward than any other year he has been at the club.

[DeeSpencer 25,398]

I understand what the OP is getting at but I think the horse has bolted. What qualifications do they bring to the table other than them being former Melbourne players who were pushed out the door in an arguably ill considered manner?

It would be great to see them around the club now & again but "jobs for the boys" hasn't exactly been a raging success. See Connolly, Chris; Lyon, Garry.

Woey is undoubtedly qualified as an AFL midfield coach and Junior is qualified as a midfield development coach. I don't think it would be jobs for the boys as they aren't Neeld's boys. Leigh Brown is Neeld's boy. So are the rest of these no name coaches we have responsible for the development of our players.

I love what the bulldogs have done by getting in Scarlett and Mooney to do some part time work with their talls at either end of the ground. If I was a bulldog young key position player I'd love that I'm getting coaching from absolute top line players who had success. And came from an amazing culture at that.

Neeld's highly structured game plan and teaching methods probably work wonders if you have the cattle, but we are miles short. We need guys who can teach the very basics and apply a confidence to the players.

I don't think there is a coaching panel in any other team that has as little AFL experience as ours and I think it shows.