AFL Pokies Ladder - Please explain

[Sir Why You Little 37,149]

Mathieson actually took Pokies off the Tigers and gave them to the Blues a few years ago!!

Not a man to shake hands with me thinks!!

Edit: i didn't realize he did the same to Footscray!

Wow what a bloke!!

Edited March 7, 2013 by why you little

[rpfc 28,780]

As good (as Carlton), or good?

No, but Caro explains who got a good deal. From May 2010.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/pokies-deal-sparks-afl-clubs-feud-20100512-uy3z.html

Melbourne's board allocated $4 million for 92 machines at the Mathieson-owned Leighoak club, but ended up paying just $370,000.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/pokies-deal-sparks-afl-clubs-feud-20100512-uy3z.html#ixzz2MoPoq0Vf

Edited March 7, 2013 by rpfc

[dee-luded 2,959]

Exactly we are not the moral police, if its legal and people want to play the pokies, then let them.

I voted for pokies way back for one reason.

To subsidise the Clubs, like the old leagues clubs. for music & entertainment for the members, & visitors...

It I hoped would help the live music scene & as a socially connecting tool.

But the political parties are whores of big business. And now we have business fleecing lonely people who still aren't connecting socially.

Its a mess.

And still no social clubs, but just greedy $$$ siphoned off tho the rich.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Just because it's legal, doesn't mean it's right. We're involved in pokies because of the culture surrounding footy - not because we're so keen on giving people their god-given right to gamble if they want.

There are plenty of pokies around that aren't attached to football clubs so its got nothing to do with "footy culture", we are involved in pokies because they make money for the club and there's no problem with that we aren't the Salvation Army.

People will gamble because they want to and because they can and will use any means available if they must.

Perhaps we should ban grog at our venues or functions as well, and maybe any junk food outlets too, we can insist on salads for all.

[stuie 7,374]

No one's mentioned "DeesBet"........?

[Dee Fan 3,247]

I voted for pokies way back for one reason.

To subsidise the Clubs, like the old leagues clubs. for music & entertainment for the members, & visitors...

It I hoped would help the live music scene & as a socially connecting tool.

But the political parties are whores of big business. And now we have business fleecing lonely people who still aren't connecting socially.

Its a mess.

And still no social clubs, but just greedy $$$ siphoned off tho the rich.

Personally I can't stand pokies and haven't played one for 15 years plus but I respect the right of others who want to waste their money on them. Before we got them in Victoria you had to go north of the Murray to have a hit and I did that a few times on boys weekends it was a bit of fun. If people get hooked on them it's because they've got a problem and if it wasn't pokies it would be something else like the ponies or cards or illegal casinos.

[Sir Why You Little 37,149]

I walk past Pokies everyday, nobody forces me to pump them.

Last time i fed one was 1989 at Jupiters on the Gold Coast.

I don't gamble, not interested.

I spend my money in different ways.

I have no great issue with them, apart from the fact that they have killed the old Pub as we knew it. Security costs and councils have been just as damaging.

Pokies are like Brothels. If you do not have them above board they will be illegal operations.

A lot of Humans use them.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Personally I can't stand pokies and haven't played one for 15 years plus but I respect the right of others who want to waste their money on them. Before we got them in Victoria you had to go north of the Murray to have a hit and I did that a few times on boys weekends it was a bit of fun. If people get hooked on them it's because they've got a problem and if it wasn't pokies it would be something else like the ponies or cards or illegal casinos.

most people that I've watched when I walked around the pokies room to see what people are doing I see loneliness & disconnection. not too dissimilar to the footy forums I guess for many.

We are all lonely in some ways, & try to pass the time in via interests.

many of us spend countless hours on these forums.

To charge people their weekly incomes on these mindless pursuits, is as addictive too the clubs as it is to the players.

It isn't the way forward & is out of control. It isn't helping people, but supporting the addicted clubs & game to the $$$$.

Its been hijacked by greed, instead of being a helpful tool to aid people connecting & having fun.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

most people that I've watched when I walked around the pokies room to see what people are doing I see loneliness & disconnection. not too dissimilar to the footy forums I guess for many.

We are all lonely in some ways, & try to pass the time in via interests.

many of us spend countless hours on these forums.

To charge people their weekly incomes on these mindless pursuits, is as addictive too the clubs as it is to the players.

It isn't the way forward & is out of control. It isn't helping people, but supporting the addicted clubs & game to the $$$$.

Its been hijacked by greed, instead of being a helpful tool to aid people connecting & having fun.

What you say may be true, I don't spend any time in pokies venues but I did have a client down at Flinders who owned the pub there. I went down to see him one morning and got there just about 9.00am and the place was chockers with housewives putting the family budget through them. He said the men go to work at Lysaghts (?spell) and the wives take the kids to school and go straight there. They all have that distant look that you see with most gamblers, it's not about the winning its about having more money to put through.

However these people will put money through the machines whether they are football owned or Woolworth owned so what do we do?

As I said if we want to be the moral police we should stop sales of grog, cigarettes and any fatty foods at our venues, also ban grog at the Presidents lunch etc. etc. it's not our job to push our opinions on to others they should be able to make their own decisions whether we think they are right or not.

[old dee 23,872]

What you say may be true, I don't spend any time in pokies venues but I did have a client down at Flinders who owned the pub there. I went down to see him one morning and got there just about 9.00am and the place was chockers with housewives putting the family budget through them. He said the men go to work at Lysaghts (?spell) and the wives take the kids to school and go straight there. They all have that distant look that you see with most gamblers, it's not about the winning its about having more money to put through.

However these people will put money through the machines whether they are football owned or Woolworth owned so what do we do?

As I said if we want to be the moral police we should stop sales of grog, cigarettes and any fatty foods at our venues, also ban grog at the Presidents lunch etc. etc. it's not our job to push our opinions on to others they should be able to make their own decisions whether we think they are right or not.

That covers it fairly well RobbieF

My problem is the unbridled promotion.

But leaving that aside I fell it boils down to this as MFC supporters.

Do we want to be a successful side with the final aim of winning a flag?

If the answer is Yes then we have no choice but to lie down with dogs.

But do not be surprised if we get up with fleas.

Edited March 7, 2013 by old dee

[13thFlagIsComing 542]

Living out in the west in Taylors Hill, i'm only a stones throw away from Caroline Springs.

From what i understand - Collingwood owns "The Club" on the Western Highway at the front of Caroline Springs

Hawthorn - is in a joint venture called WestWaters in the heart of Caroline Springs. It's a massive, hotel, pub, pokies, TAB & enterntainment and there really isn't anywhere else around here like it.

The Club is bistro with pokies where WestWaters is an entertainment complex.

Edited March 7, 2013 by 13thFlagIsComing

[old dee 23,872]

Living out in the west in Taylors Hill, i'm only a stones throw away from Caroline Springs.

From what i understand - Collingwood owns "The Club" on the Western Highway at the front of Caroline Springs

Hawthorn - is in a joint venture called WestWaters in the heart of Caroline Springs. It's a massive, hotel, pub, pokies, TAB & enterntainment and there really isn't anywhere else around here like it.

The Club is bistro with pokies where WestWaters is an entertainment complex.

Spot on 13th and they are all a very long way from Collingwood and Hawthorn

[dee-luded 2,959]

What you say may be true, I don't spend any time in pokies venues but I did have a client down at Flinders who owned the pub there. I went down to see him one morning and got there just about 9.00am and the place was chockers with housewives putting the family budget through them. He said the men go to work at Lysaghts (?spell) and the wives take the kids to school and go straight there. They all have that distant look that you see with most gamblers, it's not about the winning its about having more money to put through.

However these people will put money through the machines whether they are football owned or Woolworth owned so what do we do?

As I said if we want to be the moral police we should stop sales of grog, cigarettes and any fatty foods at our venues, also ban grog at the Presidents lunch etc. etc. it's not our job to push our opinions on to others they should be able to make their own decisions whether we think they are right or not.

Put them in sporting clubs, not pubs & casinos.

Like they were way back in the NSW clubs. Where the would supplement the clubs, & food & entertainment were the trade offs to the public, the music/entertainment industry, & the chefs/cooks + their staff.

Keep it relative to the size of the club. ie: suburban bowls club could have 5 X 10c machines.

AFL clubs could have a maximum of say 50 machines.

Regional country clubs could have say 75 machines.

IMO this would help with both the people & the clubs & regions attract holidaymakers/tourism.

giving it to the packers of this world is just party politics.

[13thFlagIsComing 542]

Spot on 13th and they are all a very long way from Collingwood and Hawthorn

Well i just pulled this from the Melton Leader from Nov 2012

AFTER two years Hawthorn Football Club’s West Waters entertainment complex in

Caroline Springs is still operating at a loss. According to the club’s 2012

annual report, the complex came in at a loss of $840,000. It comes after it

recorded a $1.1 million loss last year, in its first year of operation. A delay

in construction works in 2010 were attributed to the complex’s initial loss, but

in a statement the club says the business continues to grow and is a key

investment. The annual report claims West Waters was still in an ‘‘establishment

phase’’ and is projected to return a healthy profit next year.

[dee-luded 2,959]

What you say may be true, I don't spend any time in pokies venues but I did have a client down at Flinders who owned the pub there. I went down to see him one morning and got there just about 9.00am and the place was chockers with housewives putting the family budget through them. He said the men go to work at Lysaghts (?spell) and the wives take the kids to school and go straight there. They all have that distant look that you see with most gamblers, it's not about the winning its about having more money to put through.

However these people will put money through the machines whether they are football owned or Woolworth owned so what do we do?

As I said if we want to be the moral police we should stop sales of grog, cigarettes and any fatty foods at our venues, also ban grog at the Presidents lunch etc. etc. it's not our job to push our opinions on to others they should be able to make their own decisions whether we think they are right or not.

with the supply of meals etc at certain times. the 5 min bell rings before the machines turn off for the lunch break or the dinner timeframe. Have set hours/days the machines can operate, & give the people a debit card with their social security number & a daily limit. No cash.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,909]

That covers it fairly well RobbieF

My problem is the unbridled promotion.

But leaving that aside I fell it boils down to this as MFC supporters.

Do we want to be a successful side with the final aim of winning a flag?

If the answer is Yes then we have no choice but to lie down with dogs.

But do not be surprised if we get up with fleas.

I'm not sure what you meant by "unbridled promotion", but it's probably worth pointing out that advertising of poker machines in Victoria is banned.

[old dee 23,872]

I'm not sure what you meant by "unbridled promotion", but it's probably worth pointing out that advertising of poker machines in Victoria is banned.

Well you caught me there LDC

I was meaning gambling as a total industry more than just Poker machines

However you are correct.

Edited March 7, 2013 by old dee

[rjay 25,093]

I voted for pokies way back for one reason.

To subsidise the Clubs, like the old leagues clubs. for music & entertainment for the members, & visitors...

It I hoped would help the live music scene & as a socially connecting tool.

But the political parties are whores of big business. And now we have business fleecing lonely people who still aren't connecting socially.

Its a mess.

And still no social clubs, but just greedy $$$ siphoned off tho the rich.

Killed live music.

[Sir Why You Little 37,149]

Killed live music.

Stone Dead. And so quickly.

[Chook 15,022]

What you say may be true, I don't spend any time in pokies venues but I did have a client down at Flinders who owned the pub there. I went down to see him one morning and got there just about 9.00am and the place was chockers with housewives putting the family budget through them. He said the men go to work at Lysaghts (?spell) and the wives take the kids to school and go straight there. They all have that distant look that you see with most gamblers, it's not about the winning its about having more money to put through.

However these people will put money through the machines whether they are football owned or Woolworth owned so what do we do?

As I said if we want to be the moral police we should stop sales of grog, cigarettes and any fatty foods at our venues, also ban grog at the Presidents lunch etc. etc. it's not our job to push our opinions on to others they should be able to make their own decisions whether we think they are right or not.

It barely sounds like these people are exercising any free-will at all. Humans can be conditioned into doing all manner of things that aren't good for us, but it isn't right to just stand back and go "welp, free-will says I can't interfere so I wash my hands of the whole thing and let them go on wrecking their lives."

We live in a community, and with that comes the responsibility to help those around us (friend, stranger and enemy alike) realize what's good for them and what's not. Banning things left and right is not the answer, but neither is standing back and doing nothing. People have the right to throw their lives away, but we just have to make sure they know they're doing it.

Edited March 7, 2013 by Chook

[Dee Fan 3,247]

It barely sounds like these people are exercising any free-will at all. Humans can be conditioned into doing all manner of things that aren't good for us, but it isn't right to just stand back and go "welp, free-will says I can't interfere so I wash my hands of the whole thing and let them go on wrecking their lives."

We live in a community, and with that comes the responsibility to help those around us (friend, stranger and enemy alike) realize what's good for them and what's not. Banning things left and right is not the answer, but neither is standing back and doing nothing. People have the right to throw their lives away, but we just have to make sure they know they're doing it.

Mate if you want to stand outside pokies venues handing out pamphlets that explain the problems with gambling then go ahead. Gambling is rampant and the only way it will or can be controlled is if Governments ban it and you and I know that wont happen.

The world is full of people that have problems and I learnt a long time ago that you can't help/fix them all and in some cases the reaction you may get is not what you were expecting, people generally don't like do-gooders telling them what to do.

It's like drugs if those that want to take the can get them they will, same with gambling.

[Chook 15,022]

Mate if you want to stand outside pokies venues handing out pamphlets that explain the problems with gambling then go ahead. Gambling is rampant and the only way it will or can be controlled is if Governments ban it and you and I know that wont happen.

The world is full of people that have problems and I learnt a long time ago that you can't help/fix them all and in some cases the reaction you may get is not what you were expecting, people generally don't like do-gooders telling them what to do.

It's like drugs if those that want to take the can get them they will, same with gambling.

We don't need to give up, ban things or hand out worthless bits of paper to help people.

[Little Goffy 14,645]

Um... looking at the table, Hawthorn are the anomaly, not us. Our return is about the same as all the other 'power' clubs.

So, you could almost use this topic as a quick test to see who on here is just looking for excuses to bag the club/administration.

All that aside, I really hope that once our club has reached a solid financial position one of our first orders of business is to get out of that particularly sordid, corrupt, miserable and destructive 'industry of nothing'.

Kind of revolting that a club like Collingwood or Hawthorn, with assets and income flowing out their ears, still chooses to rely on proceeds of addiction. 'Family club' my arse.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

We don't need to give up, ban things or hand out worthless bits of paper to help people.

You give it your best then.

[Chook 15,022]

You give it your best then.

You too. If anyone you know ever has problems, I hope you don't give up on them so easily.