The ultimate success - is it worth it?

[The Chazz 4,077]

I'm not sure how anyone else feels about the AFL and world sport in general at the moment, but me, I'm starting to get a bit sick of it to be honest.

Being a Melbourne supporter all my life (30-40 years), like most on here I have never experienced the ultimate success. 1987 was heartbreaking, 1988 was embarrassing, 2000 was expected but still bloody hurt. All I wanted growing up, and all I still want to this day, is to celebrate my beloved Demons winning a flag.

At stages in my life, I've probably been guilty of thinking that I'd do anything to see us win a flag, and hoped that the Club felt the same. But to what extent does a team have to go to to reach such heights? I look back in my time and remember the dominant Hawthorn team of the 80's, the power of the Eagles in the early 90's, the brilliance of Essendon in 2000, the Brisbane legacy of the early to mid 2000's, and the recent Geelong era. But did I sit back watching in admiration and jealousy under false pretense?

I read on here recently about the rumour of the 80's Hawthorn team being on the juice. The Eagles were always rumoured to have had assistance, even to the point where one of their premiership players hinting to me a couple of years ago (in a private conversation) that there was a great deal of fact behind some of those reports. Essendon in 2000? Based on the past 48 hours - who knows? And given the connection between then coach, Mark Thompson and the men of the moment, "The Pharmacist" and "The Weapon", questions have to be raised about the Geelong team. The only one I'm yet to hear anything about is the Lions (although Alastair Lynch's treatment for Chronic Fatigue Syndrome wereas questionable), which I sincerley hope their 3-peat is squeaky clean, because I have no doubt that team was the best I've seen in my life time.

So, it makes me wonder, is it really worth winning a flag? Are we going to be able to legally compete against some of these top sides, especially if we keep our noses clean (pun intended), when at various stages others don't? I don't know what would be more heartbreaking, going through life not seeing a flag, or finding my team that dominated an era and created its own legacy did so under the assistance of drugs.

Luckily(?) it's not just AFL that is under the pump. However, it is a terrible shame that elite sport has come to this, and hope that either the senior figures of all codes can stamp it out, or that I'm overreacting!

I was told a quote one day out fishing when I lost the standard "big one". It is better to have loved and lost, than not to have loved at all. I guess we would all love to feel that sensation of winning a flag, even if years later it was found that we had assistance. To leave here one day not knowing what that feeling is like, good folk like ourselves shouldn't be put in that situation.

[old dee 23,791]

I agree billy with 99% of what you say.

As I type my disillusionment with top level spot is being sorely tested.

I have spent most of life using sport as an escape from the problems of the"real world'

Now it is being stuffed up my nose that Australian sport is as rotten as the rest of the world.

I am in a state of shock.

Can I ever go back to a simpler time.

The answer is no.

But I despair for the future.

PS Rev where are you mate I need your positive comments

[mjt 640]

If we can avoid these tanking charges and 3 to 4 teams are implicated in drug use, that elusive flag could come around quicker than you think, there is no doubt that the Bombers are not alone in this, dont be suprised if all the big spenders are involved, look at kids from thew Bombers that were taken in 2010 draft compared to ours, i would like to name names but i wont, Strauss and Blease look nothing like kids taken from other clubs at the same time, we all thought they wernt being put through proper gym sessions like certain other clubs, now the truths going to unfold.

Edited February 7, 2013 by mjt

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

Would you want a flag if it was gained because a quarter of the competition were so severely diminished by drug punishment that they were unable to compete?

Just saying that any premiership over the next few years, if it comes on the tails of a compromised opposition, may not be as a fulfilling as one that was not.

TBH, I think it'd still take the flag though.

[PJ_12345 1,098]

"The ultimate success - is it worth it?"... ask Lance Amstrong

[The Chazz 4,077]

"The ultimate success - is it worth it?"... ask Lance Amstrong

That's my point. We might be asking Jobe the same thing in weeks to come. For Lance, the many years of lying probably was worth it - was treated like royalty for most of that time, plus got to throw one in to date Sheryl Crow for a while!

I want a clean premiership, but is that possible these days?

[old dee 23,791]

That's my point. We might be asking Jobe the same thing in weeks to come. For Lance, the many years of lying probably was worth it - was treated like royalty for most of that time, plus got to throw one in to date Sheryl Crow for a while!

I want a clean premiership, but is that possible these days?

Even if you are clean it will be tainted.

Imagine if the impossible happened this year and the Dees got up.

Imagine the headlines.

Edited February 7, 2013 by old dee

[wmth 69]

Posted some of this in the other thread, but a well made point by the OP.

I've written a blog post along similar lines if anyone's interested: http://wmth.wordpress.com/

Puts things in perspective when it's brought to light in such a confronting fashion and it raises questions I am not even sure I want the answer to (such as your query over Geelong).

[Demonsterative 3,020]

Part of me says, "I dont care how just win one". Just as long I and everyone else does not know how it occured.

But my better side says, No play by the rules, It will happen eventually (when I'm dead)

OD, if the club wins 10 games this year questions will be asked. Any team that over performs from now on will be looked at as being suspicious.

[old dee 23,791]

Posted some of this in the other thread, but a well made point by the OP.

I've written a blog post along similar lines if anyone's interested: http://wmth.wordpress.com/

Puts things in perspective when it's brought to light in such a confronting fashion and it raises questions I am not even sure I want the answer to (such as your query over Geelong).

wmth a long time ago my father told me

" never ask a question that you do not want to hear the answer to"

Right now that is looking very enticing

[Sir Why You Little 37,036]

Yep. I want number 13......and.....

The End.

[beelzebub 23,376]

Yep. I want number 13......and.....

The End.

i wouldnt cross lines though. Happy to point out where anyone else has though

[Little Richard 6,262]

I think it would be more heartbreaking to learn we spent the last decade being rubbish AND we were on drugs. Now that would be disastrous.

[Sir Why You Little 37,036]

I want Premiership Cups like my Dad saw in the 50's.

5 in 7 years. How glorious it will be. I hope at least one is against Essendon whilst Sheedy is still alive.

Edited February 7, 2013 by why you little

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

I wanf Premiership Cups like my Dad saw in the 50's.

5 in 7 years. How glorious it will be. I hope at least one is against Essendon whilst Sheedy is still alive.

Lol, I'm 27 years old. Even my father is too young to remember details of those premierships. I had to hear it from my gradfather who sadly now isn't here to tell the stories

I have some great memories of Lyon, Stynes and Nietz, then season 2000 when I thought the future was bright. But past that, nothing even approaching greatness.

My son is almost 2, I hope I haven't cursed him. I think the AFL he watches will be a whole lot different following what happens over the next few months.

[Sir Why You Little 37,036]

Lol, I'm 27 years old. Even my father is too young to remember details of those premierships. I had to hear it from my gradfather who sadly now isn't here to tell the stories

I have some great memories of Lyon, Stynes and Nietz, then season 2000 when I thought the future was bright. But past that, nothing even approaching greatness.

My son is almost 2, I hope I haven't cursed him. I think the AFL he watches will be a whole lot different following what happens over the next few months.

yes. Maybe a few power clubs won't be quite as powerful very soon.

[Striker475 696]

Clean up the [censored] sport.

You guys talk about Lance. You want true success? Go and watch Cadel's first proper presser after winning the Tour de France. All the journos got up and gave him a standing ovation - not because he won, but because they knew he was clean.

It's worth it to win clean.

[Sir Why You Little 37,036]

Clean up the [censored] sport.

You guys talk about Lance. You want true success? Go and watch Cadel's first proper presser after winning the Tour de France. All the journos got up and gave him a standing ovation - not because he won, but because they knew he was clean.

It's worth it to win clean.

it is sure worth it to win clean.

You don't get dirty to start with.

[Salems Lot 2,535]

I remember a report several years relating to elite athletes in the US.

From memory they were asked if they were offered a hypothetical substance that if taken would guarantee them of Olympic success but would significantly reduce their life span would they take it. A huge percentage said that they would.

Puts in perspective how these people regard the ultimate success.

On another side note I heard the rower Drew Ginn talk last year. Whilst showing off his 3 gold medals he talked about how his public persona was defined by 12 minutes of his life.

[The Reverend 1,736]

I agree billy with 99% of what you say.

As I type my disillusionment with top level spot is being sorely tested.

I have spent most of life using sport as an escape from the problems of the"real world'

Now it is being stuffed up my nose that Australian sport is as rotten as the rest of the world.

I am in a state of shock.

Can I ever go back to a simpler time.

The answer is no.

But I despair for the future.

PS Rev where are you mate I need your positive comments

I can get you some drugs to fix what ails you.

Just joking.

Out of our adversity I believe we will emerge as one of the few squeaky clean teams in the AFL. No-one can tell me any of our boys have much to enhance their performance in recent or past history. We'll be able to walk proudly wearing our scarves and look down upon the drug-taking rabble around us. Hope is the drug my friend. That and a few optimistic single malts. Bugger the diet.

Go the drug-free DEES!

[old dee 23,791]

I can get you some drugs to fix what ails you.

Just joking.

Out of our adversity I believe we will emerge as one of the few squeaky clean teams in the AFL. No-one can tell me any of our boys have much to enhance their performance in recent or past history. We'll be able to walk proudly wearing our scarves and look down upon the drug-taking rabble around us. Hope is the drug my friend. That and a few optimistic single malts. Bugger the diet.

Go the drug-free DEES!

I can get you some drugs to fix what ails you.

Just joking.

Out of our adversity I believe we will emerge as one of the few squeaky clean teams in the AFL. No-one can tell me any of our boys have much to enhance their performance in recent or past history. We'll be able to walk proudly wearing our scarves and look down upon the drug-taking rabble around us. Hope is the drug my friend. That and a few optimistic single malts. Bugger the diet.

Go the drug-free DEES!

.

I hope you are right Rev after the last three days i am not certain we can plead innocence yet.

Single was never off rev.

The sun will come up tomorrow

Go dees

Edited February 7, 2013 by old dee

[monoccular 17,428]

I too am dreadfully disillusioned about sport in general and AFL in particular this week.

Has Vlad actually had his head so far into the place where the sun don't shine that he has missed all this?

Have club managements and boards been either so complicit, or so derelict in their corporate governance duties that they have missed this too?

I would hope, given our "performances" over recent years that we are clean: it has been noted repeatedly how physically inferior out teams have been for years.

How will the 2013 premiers, whoever they may be, be viewed? Questions will now always be raised.

Weightlifting has long been seen as a joke, and cycling especially in recent years, even pre Lacne announcements, regarded as a triumph of the best hidden pharmacologist.

Now AFL - sh!t Vlad. You have taken your eye off the ball big time, distracted by the Olympics and by trivial accusations made by dumb ex players and vindictive bitter journalists.

F A I L - EPIC FAIL

[Wormburner 674]

I can get you some drugs to fix what ails you.

Just joking.

Out of our adversity I believe we will emerge as one of the few squeaky clean teams in the AFL. No-one can tell me any of our boys have much to enhance their performance in recent or past history. We'll be able to walk proudly wearing our scarves and look down upon the drug-taking rabble around us. Hope is the drug my friend. That and a few optimistic single malts. Bugger the diet.

Go the drug-free DEES!

Of course we were drug free - why would we take performance enhancing drugs if we were supposedly trying to lose?

[old dee 23,791]

Of course we were drug free - why would we take performance enhancing drugs if we were supposedly trying to lose?

The way we ran things between 2006 and 2011 I reckon there is a good chance we bought the wrong ones.

[rpfc 28,430]

I am not disillusioned and I will tell you why...

I am a US sports fan and the blind eye they turned to PEDs in their major sports has passed critical mass. It passed it when Barry Bonds was ripping balls deep at 35, it passed with US cycling teams allowing and imploring Armstrong to do what he wanted to do, it passed when NFL players and NBA players become massive after short pre-seasons spent with their personal 'physicians.'

We are reaching ours right now and there is universal disgust and condemnation - a foundation club is on it knees in one sport begging for mercy. As painful as it is - it is a good sign. We needed to have this moment before we got to the 'everyone does it, let's just let it go, they're all doing it!'

So our sport is on fire right now and the outcome is going to be one none of us can predict but the reaction is good - we are disgusted and we are unequivocal and that is good.