Brock McLean article - "Tackling footy's silence on gays"

[hardtack 10,400]

I don't see how raising money for cancer has anything to do with social justice. And no-one would be in favour of bullying in schools, so I don't see these as great examples of social reform. It's a bit like violence against women. Do you need to be told it's bad by the AFL to know it's not acceptable ? Just administer the game thanks.

I believe that multiculturalism is an exceedingly flawed policy, but it wouldn't surprise me to see the AFL having a "multiculturalism" round, which would be another social agenda with which I'd disagree. Multiculturalism - not to be confused with immigration - has failed all around the world with many nations now admitting it was a flawed policy. A concept that encouraged and financially rewarded migrants for not assimilating.

I don't recall saying anything about "social justice"... I thought it was pretty obvious I was coming from an angle of social awareness and the influence AFL footballers as role models (regardless of what we may think of that term) can have.

[My TD 156]

I couldn't give a toss about someone's sexuality, i.e. "I couldn't care less", but how does that translate to condoning "discrimination" against individuals, or groups in the workplace, or other areas of life ?

Translates to racist misogynist aswell.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

The more I read of you the more I learn how thick you are. I couldn't give a toss about someone's sexuality, i.e. "I couldn't care less", but how does that translate to condoning "discrimination" against individuals, or groups in the workplace, or other areas of life ?

The AFL have an obligation to provide a discrimination free workplace so they are obliged to be the moral police for AFL football, if that flows on to other areas of the community then all well and good. If you don't think its their obligation to be the moral police in this instance then it's you that's thick not me.

I don't want the AFL to be a moral police

This issue is very close to me but in typical style you just want to come on and start a fight and try to prove an irrelevant point and argue semantics. If you don't care what other reason do you have?

[P-man 13,366]

I'd love to live in a society where "gay awareness" wasn't required. Where pride marches weren't considered necessary, let alone rounds in the AFL with players wearing rainbow socks. One of my best mates is gay and it's a non-issue. Both he and we make the odd joke about it, as we do all other aspects of our life. It's about true acceptance.

Unfortunately as it stands, there is still a main cause for which homosexuals are fighting, namely the legalisation of same-sex marriage. And in football circles, it remains an area where a fair amount of progress remains to be made.

So until we reach true acceptance, I have no issue with Brock's comments. Good on him for speaking up when many others would not.

But yeah, still a [censored].

[Devo 104]

This is the best thing Brock has ever done and is likely to ever do. Good on him.

[Hannibal 5,814]

The AFL have an obligation to provide a discrimination free workplace so they are obliged to be the moral police for AFL football, if that flows on to other areas of the community then all well and good. If you don't think its their obligation to be the moral police in this instance then it's you that's thick not me.

I expect them to provide the same type of workplace environment that is expected of every workplace environment. If someone is being discriminated against I expect them to act.

How does me not caring about an individual's sexuality mean that I don't care about discrimination in the workplace, which is what you asserted ?

[dee-luded 2,959]

I'd love to live in a society where "gay awareness" wasn't required. Where pride marches weren't considered necessary, let alone rounds in the AFL with players wearing rainbow socks. One of my best mates is gay and it's a non-issue. Both he and we make the odd joke about it, as we do all other aspects of our life. It's about true acceptance.

Unfortunately as it stands, there is still a main cause for which homosexuals are fighting, namely the legalisation of same-sex marriage. And in football circles, it remains an area where a fair amount of progress remains to be made.

So until we reach true acceptance, I have no issue with Brock's comments. Good on him for speaking up when many others would not.

But yeah, still a [censored].

sorry P-Man but I don't think its a bout a bit of paper as recognition.

To me its about the controlling few who hold this steadfast belief that some are evil. Its a bias, bigotry, political correctness, religious faith, that keeps some from opening their minds & learn that life isn't evil.

this is what I say about 'God' or religion.

As I don't believe the Rainbow Serpent or God, or Jesus, or Allah, or Buddha, are the problems. But the interpretations & writings, from peoples past, who have interpreted these Beings/Spirits & written their words for them...

this I think is the breakdown.

this is why/where I think some,, stop others from getting the respect that all living creatures deserve.... control freaks, are you listening?

[bing181 8,908]

But in regards to running social issues I want the AFL to STFU, whereas you, and others want them to have a voice. You want them to take a lead. You like them having a stance on social reform.

STFU'ing IS taking a stance.

For an organisation as influential and all-powerful as the AFL, saying nothing sends a fairly loud message.

[Hannibal 5,814]

For an organisation as influential and all-powerful as the AFL, saying nothing sends a fairly loud message.

Not to me.

[Guest José Mourinho]

Not to me.

The crux of your argument, I believe.

Fair enough.

But I and many others think it speaks volumes, and that as such can and should be used to its fullest effect.

Can you not ignore whatever uncomfortable feeling you have about it (using the AFL as a mouthpiece for a cause), and accept that for many it is a powerful vehicle for change, for the greater good?

Surely that is a noble cause?

I do think however, that we run the risk of diluting its power when it's used too often and for artificially pumped up causes.

[bing181 8,908]

This:

Hey tweeps. Brock McLean (@dirty_14) is copping some shrapnel on twitter after his outstanding effort in this morning's Age. Get around him!

Retweeted by Rohan Connolly

[ThreeOneSix 954]

Quite ironic that last year McLean was hating on Aids victims and this year he leading the charge for Gay pride.

Two subjects that go hand in hand.

The AFL should keep well clear of social issues and I expect that it will.

Just because boards like Big Footy and Demonland run one sided views on the subject, doesn't mean the majority of the actual public agree.

[old55 22,775]

I do not like the AFL having "themed" rounds on social issues. There'll come a time when they take a stance on something that you don't agree with. It's not their place, imo.

I'll agree to differ.

Fear of "climate change round"

[The heart beats true 17,746]

Quite ironic that last year McLean was hating on Aids victims and this year he leading the charge for Gay pride.

Two subjects that go hand in hand.

The AFL should keep well clear of social issues and I expect that it will.

Just because boards like Big Footy and Demonland run one sided views on the subject, doesn't mean the majority of the actual public agree.

This is absolute [censored]. To draw a line between sexuality and AIDS in this day and age shows exactly why we need social awareness campaigns. The majority of people with AIDS are poor Africans with little to no education. It's not 1983 anymore.

And this whole argument about the 'majority of the actual public' is proven to be untrue as well. On last count 60% of the Australian population supported gay marriage, one of the highest approval ratings in the world.

Seriously, if you're going to speak you might want to think first.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

STFU'ing IS taking a stance.

For an organisation as influential and all-powerful as the AFL, saying nothing sends a fairly loud message.

There are obviously AFL players that are Gay and the only reason they don't come out is because they know they will be discriminated against; it's not about being a "poster boy" it's being about being able to do your job without facing prejudice in the work place. That's discrimination and to have to hide your sexuality in this day and age is disgraceful.

The AFL have the responsibility, as an employer, to ensure that all their employees are treated equally, gays don't want to be treated differently they just want to be treated with the same respect that others are. If the AFL decide to pull their head out of the sand they may be able to show they are serious about equal opportunity for all, they've made it a lot easier for the indigenous kids so why not the ones who are gay.

Or they could just turn a blind eye to it and pretend it doesn't exist.

[pitchfork 181]

There are obviously AFL players that are Gay and the only reason they don't come out is because they know they will be discriminated against; it's not about being a "poster boy" it's being about being able to do your job without facing prejudice in the work place. That's discrimination and to have to hide your sexuality in this day and age is disgraceful.

The AFL have the responsibility, as an employer, to ensure that all their employees are treated equally, gays don't want to be treated differently they just want to be treated with the same respect that others are. If the AFL decide to pull their head out of the sand they may be able to show they are serious about equal opportunity for all, they've made it a lot easier for the indigenous kids so why not the ones who are gay.

Or they could just turn a blind eye to it and pretend it doesn't exist.

Bravo Robbie, Bravo.

The Bare Bones

1. This is about workplace equality

2. A community organisation has a responsibility to be inclusive.

None of that has anything to do with any of the hot button issues of the day.

It's the 21st century - homosexuality is not a hot button issue

A Digression

** The actions of Brock McLean, the potential impact of AFL action, and the brave players that will one day eventually 'come out' will be really significant events. It says 'you're welcome in this community' and provides examples of support. LGBT (youth in particularly) feel the burden of suicide more greatly then the broader community. This surely has something to do with a feeling of not belonging. There's space for meaningful gestures.

I cannot understand those who argue against multiculturalism, nor do I believe that their arguments hold much water - but if the AFL had a 'rainbow round' or something like that, it would have more in common with the 'indigenous round' and I think we'd struggle to find a half-dozen who opposes that recognition [multicultural rnd is about inclusion too, but we tend to celebrate the more established immigrant communities rather than those just begining their australian journey].

Edited January 27, 2013 by pitchfork

[Hannibal 5,814]

I cannot understand those who argue against multiculturalism, nor do I believe that their arguments hold much water -

Any policy that implores divisiveness cannot be successful long-term. And if you don't think it's divisive you don't understand it.

Being against multiculturism doesn't mean you're against celebrating someone's original culture, it's not being against diversity, it's not anti ethnicity, it's not being against immigration, but I doubt you get that. I wonder whether you understand what multiculturism even means.

Multiculturism advocates difference. It advocates non inclusion. It rewards anti assimilation. It rewards groups financially to stay different. It's a completely flawed concept that has caused havoc around the world. Don't take my word for it. Research it.

[Axis of Bob 11,157]

That's a separate issue and perhaps we can keep those views out of the footy forum.

[BarnDee 287]

mmm ok , belt me if you like , whatever , its seems to me that there is lots of love for our brock , the same dog who got my club and yours , well some of you , in to the most damaging controversay in years , yet you all are bowing to the common sense he sprouts ? big deal his sis is gay , who really cares , i dont , i have no prob with gay people , until they hit on me , and it does happen , dont deny that , i must admit that i am a lesbian trapped in a mans body , but thats beside the point , , this love for mclean , brock , is just perverse , , get over ya selves and grow some , stick up for your club and let no one take us down , , i will go off when jv runs thru that dog , cheers

[BarnDee 287]

PS i want a vote , , anything mclean ever says in the future is not put on this site , yes or no , ? try to remember what he did for the MFC ,

[Jesse Christ 2,884]

In the interest of fairness can we vote that anything you say is not put on this site?

[Carrot Top 947]

I cannot understand those who argue against multiculturalism, nor do I believe that their arguments hold much water - but if the AFL had a 'rainbow round' or something like that, it would have more in common with the 'indigenous round' and I think we'd struggle to find a half-dozen who opposes that recognition [multicultural rnd is about inclusion too, but we tend to celebrate the more established immigrant communities rather than those just begining their australian journey].

I can and do. A Multi-racial society is a fine thing to aim for, but a multi cultural one is just asking for future troubles. Multiculturalism just makes it harder for the melting pot to do its job, and god knows the job is hard enough as it is. Now I'm not saying we all must eat meat pies and say Strewth all the time, and the dominant culture should take the best it can find from others and use it, but the idea that all cultural behaviour is equally valid and welcome is a very bad idea that will hurt this country in the future.

[Range Rover 1,935]

This is absolute [censored]. To draw a line between sexuality and AIDS in this day and age shows exactly why we need social awareness campaigns. The majority of people with AIDS are poor Africans with little to no education. It's not 1983 anymore.

Seriously, if you're going to speak you might want to think first.

In the West ... it is commonly estimated that HIV/AIDS is close to 50 times more prevalent in the gay community than in the rest of the population.

So no, it's not bullsh1t. It's the reality. It's not a statistic you can sweep under the rug.

[BarnDee 287]

In the interest of fairness can we vote that anything you say is not put on this site?

yeah sure we can , im happy with that , im confident that being a MFC supporter for 53 years will get a few votes over a cartoon or what ever ,

[BarnDee 287]

I can and do. A Multi-racial society is a fine thing to aim for, but a multi cultural one is just asking for future troubles. Multiculturalism just makes it harder for the melting pot to do its job, and god knows the job is hard enough as it is. Now I'm not saying we all must eat meat pies and say Strewth all the time, and the dominant culture should take the best it can find from others and use it, but the idea that all cultural behaviour is equally valid and welcome is a very bad idea that will hurt this country in the future.

well said , and bloody dead right