What's the AFL Definition of Tanking?

[Disco Demons 92]

Just so everyone can try and be on the same page...do we have an official AFL def of Tanking? I think it's important to establish given the debate that's going on.

Best I could find...According to Wikipedia (trust it as you like)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priority_draft_pick#Tanking

What is the AFL rules on tanking?

• Instructing the players to deliberately lose matches
  
• Employing unusual tactics in matches, including using players in positions where they do not usually play^[2]
  
• Resting star players with minor injuries, who would likely not be rested if the team were contesting finals^[3]
  
• Playing younger players who do not yet have much experience at AFL level^[4]
  

^{In the court of AFL it seems like we are in trouble but in a court of law i think we'll be fine. Evidence will not stack up.}

[ILLDieADemon 804]

Just so everyone can try and be on the same page...do we have an official AFL def of Tanking? I think it's important to establish given the debate that's going on.

Best I could find...According to Wikipedia (trust it as you like)

http://en.wikipedia....ft_pick#Tanking

What is the AFL rules on tanking?

• Instructing the players to deliberately lose matches
  
• Employing unusual tactics in matches, including using players in positions where they do not usually play^[2]
  
• Resting star players with minor injuries, who would likely not be rested if the team were contesting finals^[3]
  
• Playing younger players who do not yet have much experience at AFL level^[4]
  

^{In the court of AFL it seems like we are in trouble but in a court of law i think we'll be fine. Evidence will not stack up.}

I read this ans think, this is exactly how we where playing that season.

I just hope Nothing is done until after this year's draft cause if they take our first round Draft pick in 2013 then it wont be as bad because we have Hogen starting and is like a first round pick in that draft.

It kinda makes me think that was the reason why we through so much to get him, just in case something like this does happen.

[beelzebub 22,776]

There can be no definition from the AFL regarding the phenomenon often called 'tanking" as for it it doesnt exist. How can it define something that isnt there ?? lol

[pantaloons 2,019]

Just so everyone can try and be on the same page...do we have an official AFL def of Tanking? I think it's important to establish given the debate that's going on.

Best I could find...According to Wikipedia (trust it as you like)

http://en.wikipedia....ft_pick#Tanking

What is the AFL rules on tanking?

• Instructing the players to deliberately lose matches
  
• Employing unusual tactics in matches, including using players in positions where they do not usually play^[2]
  
• Resting star players with minor injuries, who would likely not be rested if the team were contesting finals^[3]
  
• Playing younger players who do not yet have much experience at AFL level^[4]
  

Hahahaha!! Points 2-4 occur in every game, every week. Point 1 is completely different. I love wikipedia, but whoever put this on there is having a lend.

[monoccular 16,731]

Fabulous - another "tanking" thread!

Are we all getting as bored as the so called journalists are now the trading has finished?

[demonchris 162]

the first point is the only one that would be 'tanking'... the last three points as was stated above happen week in week out...

[Barney Rubble 1,576]

Tanking is a membrane placed against a retaining wall below ground level to exclude moisture permeating through the wall.

Don't know how that relates to a football game.

Just thought I'd add a similar definition.

Sand Bagging Golfers know this one, very similar outcome to tanking.

Sandbagging is used in the case of floods to avoid the threat of flooding into towns.

Amazing how sports use different terminology to come up with the same outcome.

Edited October 31, 2012 by Chippy

[RalphiusMaximus 6,005]

Pretty sure they've come out at various times and said that they would regard it as tanking if a team were found to not be trying to win the game on match day. Other moves such as positional changes, sending players off for surgery or playing young players don't count. Therefore if we can show that the team on the park was trying to win the game there is no case to answer.

Of course, this wouldn't be the first time the AFL has moved the goalposts halfway through the game to get the result they wanted...

[daisycutter 28,730]

During WWII tanking generally meant you were pretty serious about winning. Well Guderian did anyway.

[Good Times Grimes 2,396]

"A person, being a player, coach or assistant coach, must at all times perform on their merits and must not induce, or encourage, any player, coach or assistant coach not to perform on their merits in any match - or in relation to any aspect of the match, for any reason whatsoever."

Taken from here

[leucopogon 1,494]

to those responding to this thread seriously, you do realise that wikipedia consists of contributions from anyone and is not peer reviewed don't you?

[Gippsland Dee 367]

• Instructing the players to deliberately lose matches
  

I know that wikipedia has very little credibility, but lets say this is one of the points that the AFL are looking at (or similar), we should be safe as i really don't think the players would ever play to lose or be instructed to lose. They would've only been played in unfamiliar positions which would possibly make it seem like they weren't giving it 100%.

Edited October 31, 2012 by young dee enthusiast

[Guest fitness]

"A person, being a player, coach or assistant coach, must at all times perform on their merits and must not induce, or encourage, any player, coach or assistant coach not to perform on their merits in any match - or in relation to any aspect of the match, for any reason whatsoever."

Taken from here

This is exactly what the club will be charged with, if anything comes from this investigation. Interesting that it is worded specifically around individuals, though, which suggests that unless they can prove that players didn't try on the field (which they won't), then the only possible outcome will be to remove said individuals out of the club and the game.

[Guest José Mourinho]

"A person, being a player, coach or assistant coach, must at all times perform on their merits and must not induce, or encourage, any player, coach or assistant coach not to perform on their merits in any match - or in relation to any aspect of the match, for any reason whatsoever."

Taken from here

Gets murky when that description does not mention administrators, football managers, high performance managers, etc ad nauseum....

[G&D 8]

Gets murky when that description does not mention administrators, football managers, high performance managers, etc ad nauseum....

Sure does. Bailey and assistants would be looked at under that rule. That turns on its own facts and therefore would appear more open to appeal in a court. Schwab and Connolly however are likely to be looking at the generic, "bringing the game into disrepute" which is highly subjective and pretty much gives the AFL open slather with no clear definition which I'd have thought would be much harder to appeal in court. Any sanctions against the club as a whole would likely then come down to a breach of the AFLs constitution.

[Jonesbag 487]

I believe tanking is an old old wooden ship which was used in the civil war era.

It was also discovered by the germans in 1913 and they named it San Diago which it german means a whales [censored].

[dee-luded 2,958]

Just so everyone can try and be on the same page...do we have an official AFL def of Tanking? I think it's important to establish given the debate that's going on.

Best I could find...According to Wikipedia (trust it as you like)

http://en.wikipedia....ft_pick#Tanking

What is the AFL rules on tanking?

• Instructing the players to deliberately lose matches
  
• Employing unusual tactics in matches, including using players in positions where they do not usually play^[2]
  
• Resting star players with minor injuries, who would likely not be rested if the team were contesting finals^[3]
  
• Playing younger players who do not yet have much experience at AFL level^[4]
  

^{In the court of AFL it seems like we are in trouble but in a court of law i think we'll be fine. Evidence will not stack up.}

I think it's termed 'List Management'.

[Nascent 7,870]

Looking at the wording of rule 19 A5

"A person, being a player, coach or assistant coach, must at all times perform on their merits and must not induce, or encourage, any player, coach or assistant coach not to perform on their merits in any match - or in relation to any aspect of the match, for any reason whatsoever."

A player, Coach or assistant coach. Every recent article that I have read has pointed to either Connelly or higher up (i.e. Schwab) as the source of "inducing" tanking.

As for the perform on there "merits", well that appears to be open for interpretation too. Couldn't one argue that a coach's, assistant or otherwise, sole focus is to develop players. I would argue that the merits of the match for the demons of 2009 was to develop our woeful team by exposing players to different positions to improve their game. Hell even Sheedy has said he "tanked" in his '93 premiership season using this method... so surely the "playing players in different position" argument can just be thrown out altogether.

Lol, look at me clutching at straws. Really wish the draft was tomorrow.

[That's a Stretch 18]

If tanking is most clearly defined as players not wanting to or instructed not to win, then we should be ok as the players still give it their all?

[Vipercrunch 2,818]

OK

List management, experimentation, resting players, blooding the youth etc etc NOT CARING if you win or lose to better your chances at winning your next premiership. More than acceptable behaviour that occurs when a clubs realises it is not in contention for the current season.

NOT OK

List management, experimentation, resting players, blooding the youth etc etc specifically so you DO NOT WIN to better your draft position.

I belive the AFL will continue to accept if clubs stop caring if they win or lose in the later rounds of the season, but will be very harsh when a team becomes motivated to deliberalty lose.

[rpfc 27,702]

I know what I think is tanking in a draft driven sport - not a lot. But whether the commission feels the same will be the issue. Wilson has it all on the line here and she won't let it go if we are get off the hook and she will laud it over us until we do her bidding and remove Schwab. And she will bring a few cohorts along the ride with her too...

[Choko 493]

OK

List management, experimentation, resting players, blooding the youth etc etc NOT CARING if you win or lose to better your chances at winning your next premiership. More than acceptable behaviour that occurs when a clubs realises it is not in contention for the current season.

NOT OK

List management, experimentation, resting players, blooding the youth etc etc specifically so you DO NOT WIN to better your draft position.

I belive the AFL will continue to accept if clubs stop caring if they win or lose in the later rounds of the season, but will be very harsh when a team becomes motivated to deliberalty lose.

Spot on post.

If the AFL act, this is exactly what is going on. The same actions, with "worse" intent (or poor execution of same intent!).

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Tanking or not, do the AFL have the right to interfere in the running of our club, both now and in the past? Do they have the right to penalise our club for the supposed breach of a rule that occurred some 3 years ago? We now have a different playing group, different coach and completely different structure to our football department. Surely the AFL have been aware of this issue for a long time and their failure to act in an expedient manner has been prejudicial to our Club. There have been many personnel that have departed the club and perhaps some in not ideal situations; these people may have had a different view of proceedings if the were interviewed when still employed by the club and perhaps not so bitter.

We are an equal shareholder and therefore do the AFL commissioners have the right to impose monetary or other sanctions on us? Is it a restraint of trade if they penalise us and prevent us from raising revenue and damaging our "Brand" by forcing us to operate under unfair restrictions such as the loss of draft selections?

[Giles 179]

I'm pretty sure we followed all those 'tanking instructions' with the exception of the first one and beat Essendon this year...

[hoopla 418]

"MELBOURNE legend Ron Barassi says the AFL must turn its tanking investigation to other clubs if the Demons are found guilty of deliberately underperforming."

http://www.heraldsun...o-1226514305211

Good on you Ron for coming out and saying it ( even if your point is obvious)