Wines or O`Rourke

[Demon Disciple 12,491]

And I don't know where it is written that Pedersen will play CHB.

I'm not saying it is written, just that imo, we would benefit greatest with Pederson playing in the back line. He is a big unit and seems to be pretty agile and decent kick.

[Guest José Mourinho]

Uh... McDonald filled in at CHB admirably for the majority of 2012.

We do also have Sellar and Garland capable of filling in there.

As rpfc has said, what club has stars playing in the VFL waiting on standby?

[Lord Travis 10,800]

I'm going to buck the trend here and say O'Rourke will be a better player than Wines. Better skills, better decision making, better pace. While Wines has the body and is ready to go, all this talk of him being a skinny kid we'll have to wait years for is incorrect. People are going off old stats. He currently weighs 78kgs, so after preseason he'll be in the 80kgs already. He got just .2 below Wines in the beep test, and was one of the top 10 at the try-outs in that regard, so elite like Wines. His kicking is rated as nearly the best in the draft, he's got great pace, and is seen as the most composed player in the draft along with Toumpas. Wines is an extractor, O'Rourke will win the games. With Viney, Jones, Trengove, Mckenzie, and a bunch of insiders and slower mids already, we NEED outside SKILL and PACE. O'Rourke has this, not to mention he is capable inside as well.

If we can't get Toumpas, O'Rourke is best fit for us IMO.

[mfcrox 143]

Jake Stringer for me!

Everyone was concerned about Judd's shoulders/Selwood's knee pre-draft, and they turned out alright. Most talented kid in the whole draft, has a ready-made physique, and has X-factor.

[corowa 216]

I'm going to buck the trend here and say O'Rourke will be a better player than Wines. Better skills, better decision making, better pace. While Wines has the body and is ready to go, all this talk of him being a skinny kid we'll have to wait years for is incorrect. People are going off old stats. He currently weighs 78kgs, so after preseason he'll be in the 80kgs already. He got just .2 below Wines in the beep test, and was one of the top 10 at the try-outs in that regard, so elite like Wines. His kicking is rated as nearly the best in the draft, he's got great pace, and is seen as the most composed player in the draft along with Toumpas. Wines is an extractor, O'Rourke will win the games. With Viney, Jones, Trengove, Mckenzie, and a bunch of insiders and slower mids already, we NEED outside SKILL and PACE. O'Rourke has this, not to mention he is capable inside as well.

If we can't get Toumpas, O'Rourke is best fit for us IMO.

Which ever player we draft at 4, he'll be a ready made starter for 2013. Just look at the quality of the top boys - Whitfield, Toumpas, O'Rourke, Wines, Stringer, Plowman, etc etc.We can't miss out!

[Watts Jurrah Dunn? 735]

I can understand some apprehension towards O'Rourke because the last time we took a skinny, skilful kid with pick 4 it didn't end well.

I really can't split O'Rourke and Wines. We just need quality and Sydney proved you can't have too many inside animals. The thought of Wines, Viney and Hogan throwing opponents round in 2014 does warm the heart. With Neelds emphasis on contested possessions I expect it will be Wines at 4.

But I think there is a bit of confusion about O'Rourke being a 'skinny outside runner'.

Here is an excerpt from a draft preview article on the Richmond website: http://www.richmondfc.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/6301/newsid/143924/default.aspx

He’s predominantly an inside midfielder, but what’s really taken his game to the next level this season has been the outside stuff. In the National Champs, 36% of his total possessions were contested, which highlights my point. We already know he’s a very good inside player.

To put an exclamation mark on what he’s been doing on the outside, is his disposal efficiency. It’s important to keep in mind disposal efficiencies don’t necessarily translate exactly into AFL; they normally get better, due to space, much more defined game plans and quality of the games.

But anyway, it doesn’t matter in O’Rourke’s case. In the National Champs he used the ball above average, going at 76% and in the TAC Cup he’s travelling at 73%. To put it into perspective, some of the better ball users in last year’s draft were Brandon Ellis (76% at Champs, 78% in TAC), Dom Tyson (79% at Champs, 69% in TAC) and Sam Docherty (73% at Champs, 72% in TAC).

[Little Richard 6,265]

Which ever player we draft at 4, he'll be a ready made starter for 2013. Just look at the quality of the top boys - Whitfield, Toumpas, O'Rourke, Wines, Stringer, Plowman, etc etc.We can't miss out!

You don't think this is a unique year do you? People say this every year, and the same thing happens; one or two start well and fit in right away, a few start slow and take a while to find their feet but eventually become starting 22 and many just never make it.

[corowa 216]

You don't think this is a unique year do you? People say this every year, and the same thing happens; one or two start well and fit in right away, a few start slow and take a while to find their feet but eventually become starting 22 and many just never make it.

Having followed the Demons since 1955 I have seen my share of 'downs' though also some 'ups'.You have brought me down from 'cloud 9' with a big thump of reality, passenger.But in a year that has been so horrible in so many ways, you can forgive an old bloke for getting his hopes up, can't you?The professional manner with which Neeld has gone about building the basics for a competitive team is unlike any previous recruiting campaign in the past twenty year, or more.I have faith in what has happened over the past couple of weeks. I am excited that nearly all of these new players will have an immediate and positive effect, around the club, at training and then on the field.I hope I can come back on here half way through next season and say 'I told you so!'

[Demon Disciple 12,491]

It is a hard decision to make, one that i am not envious of. But think of it this way, if we were to draft Wines (along with Viney), we wouldn't have to worry about our engine room for at least a decade!

[Little Richard 6,265]

Having followed the Demons since 1955 I have seen my share of 'downs' though also some 'ups'.You have brought me down from 'cloud 9' with a big thump of reality, passenger.But in a year that has been so horrible in so many ways, you can forgive an old bloke for getting his hopes up, can't you?The professional manner with which Neeld has gone about building the basics for a competitive team is unlike any previous recruiting campaign in the past twenty year, or more.I have faith in what has happened over the past couple of weeks. I am excited that nearly all of these new players will have an immediate and positive effect, around the club, at training and then on the field.I hope I can come back on here half way through next season and say 'I told you so!'

I really hope you can too, I've just learnt to be cynical after following the dees for a while and I'm sure you can understand that. I trust that Neeld is a man who knows exactly what he wants and what kind of player will be best for the team. I do have more faith this year than in recent years and I'm looking forward to seeing a quality player picked at 4 (Wines in my opinion is our guy).

[King Kunta 97]

From a selfish supporter's perspective I would love Sam Mayes at the Dees. He is just so enjoyable to watch and makes the game look effortless, at 187cm and a solid build he is a quick midfielder and a noted goal kicker at SANFL level. When selecting high in the draft you need to pick players who will not merely get the ball but hurt the other team, as Mayes is the best kick in this draft and a dangerous forward 50 target I would say he has the highest ceiling perhaps bar Stringer in the draft.

Ultimately though I think the Dees under Neeld will take the most sure thing which is Wines; a strong body, capable overhead and a very good aerobic capacity who gets his own ball is a pretty good mix for a quality AFL player.

[Little Richard 6,265]

From a selfish supporter's perspective I would love Sam Mayes at the Dees. He is just so enjoyable to watch and makes the game look effortless, at 187cm and a solid build he is a quick midfielder and a noted goal kicker at SANFL level. When selecting high in the draft you need to pick players who will not merely get the ball but hurt the other team, as Mayes is the best kick in this draft and a dangerous forward 50 target I would say he has the highest ceiling perhaps bar Stringer in the draft.

Ultimately though I think the Dees under Neeld will take the most sure thing which is Wines; a strong body, capable overhead and a very good aerobic capacity who gets his own ball is a pretty good mix for a quality AFL player.

Sounds like Col Sylvia mk 2

[RalphiusMaximus 6,110]

Sounds like Col Sylvia mk 2

I find it hard to get behind the knockers on Col given his injury history. This is a guy who has never completed a full pre-season. It's no wonder he's struggled to put together a consistent season. I agree he's done some idiotic things away from the field, but I would say that if he can get an even break on field and maybe a full year without injuries he will surprise a lot of people.

[King Kunta 97]

Sounds like Col Sylvia mk 2

He is a better forward and athlete than Iceman but Col has a lot of traits that are desirable; goal kicker, damaging, strong body just lacks a few intangibles that prevents him from being an A-grader.

I find it hard to get behind the knockers on Col given his injury history. This is a guy who has never completed a full pre-season. It's no wonder he's struggled to put together a consistent season. I agree he's done some idiotic things away from the field, but I would say that if he can get an even break on field and maybe a full year without injuries he will surprise a lot of people.

Agree is also easily my favourite to watch when on song, can dominate like few others.

[Demon Disciple 12,491]

Just throwing a cat amongst the pigeons here, but if Adelaide were penalised for the current predicament they are in and as such lost say their 17yo mini draft selection from last year in Brad Crouch (amongst other things) who went back into the 2012 draft, might we take him ahead of say a Toumpas/Wines?

I would.

[Jesse Christ 2,884]

Wonder which investigation will finish first- us or Adelaide. Both will result in nothing, just a bit of AFL chest beating I think. They have to remind everyone who's boss everry now and then

[Adam The God 30,644]

Wrong, our backline is not the least of our worries. What if Frawley goes down? Then we are farked, as we have no one to cover for him. We still need to bring in another big KPP capable of holding down CHB. I thought Sheahan would eventually take over this role but he is gone apparently. Unless we intend to stick McDonald on an intense muscle and strength gaining program over the pre-season, he won't be ready to hold down CHB on a regular basis for a few years yet. Unless of course we intend to use Sellar there, lol.

Hopefully Pederson is still on the cards and Neeld has him pencilled in for CHB, whilst the younger one's develop.

Disagree. Garland has played Frawley's standard before. Just hasn't strung a full, consistent season together like Frawley has. We wouldn't want to loose Chip. There's no doubting he's our best back, but he can be covered if he's out for a few games.

[Grimes Times 1,278]

In a high pressure, tight contested final who would you prefer, Griffen or Sewell.

Wines all day

[Deestroy All 14,266]

In a high pressure, tight contested final who would you prefer, Griffen or Sewell.

Wines all day

Depends, scores are level with 30 seconds left and the ball spills out to the wing... Griffen.

But I agree with your point.

And I'll add that we need to get the basic fundamentals of the midfield right first. Getting the ball first, consistently. Once we start doing that you'll be amazed at how many receivers we'll suddenly have.

[Little Richard 6,265]

I find it hard to get behind the knockers on Col given his injury history. This is a guy who has never completed a full pre-season. It's no wonder he's struggled to put together a consistent season. I agree he's done some idiotic things away from the field, but I would say that if he can get an even break on field and maybe a full year without injuries he will surprise a lot of people.

I just mean the type of player but I agree with what you are saying. I was all for trading him earlier this year as my frustration with him after the last 8 years had built to huge levels but after his consistent run home I'm filled with (probably blind) hope again that he can get it together next season.

Might be going over the top but I seriously believe Col has everything to be in the top 15 players in the league, he just has to put it together. Not sure if he ever will but time will tell.

[Guest Hulkamania]

Given the direction Neeld is taking the club recruiting-wise, I think it is safe to say there is ZERO chance we will pick the skinny 72kg O'Rourke with pick 4.

No chance.

[PaulRB 6,435]

Given Tippett can now not be traded today, he may end up in the ND which would increase the chances that Toumpass or Grundy will be there for us should we want them..?

[rpfc 28,966]

Tippett should be deregistered now that I have thought more about it.

You can't just let the player off the hook and blame his management.

Velocity is in trouble and so is Tippett and the Crows.

[Jordie_tackles 354]

Given Tippett can now not be traded today, he may end up in the ND which would increase the chances that Toumpass or Grundy will be there for us should we want them..?

Big question being is he worth a top 3 pick? im not sure he is......if he has a big enough price on his head he might last to GWS pick 13?

[Jordie_tackles 354]

Tippett should be deregistered now that I have thought more about it.

You can't just let the player off the hook and blame his management.

Velocity is in trouble and so is Tippett and the Crows.

Yes he should, breaking the cap, outside payments ect cant let him play on after this