We're not playing that badly - hear me out

[Striker475 696]

Okay, let me qualify this.

Our disposal, although at times having errors (including the handball into traffic problem, something we've done for a decade now) is not that bad.

Our conversion - I50s to goals - is actually extremely good.

The team, when they have the pill, is doing the right things.

The problem is when we don't. Those that are willing to chase are too slow, and those that aren't are made to look useless. We fail to actually deliver a shepherd and thus protect a ball carrier. We cannot break down a spread-out run-and-carry - the same system that served us so well when we've demolished teams is now annihilating us.

I genuinely can't look at today and say that any particular player was godawful. I can say a few were poor, some were quiet, but none had an absolute howler. Instead, it seems that the entire thing is based around our failure to operate once again without the footy in hand.

[Face Your Demons 175]

Mids were the problem today, back line has no hope when the ball is coming in that many times.

[P-man 13,366]

Fatigue was a big problem. Our players aside from Howe, Jones and one or two others were visibly knackered after halftime. When you heap this on top of our other issues, it becomes a significant issue.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Okay, let me qualify this.

Our disposal, although at times having errors (including the handball into traffic problem, something we've done for a decade now) is not that bad.

Our conversion - I50s to goals - is actually extremely good.

The team, when they have the pill, is doing the right things.

The problem is when we don't. Those that are willing to chase are too slow, and those that aren't are made to look useless. We fail to actually deliver a shepherd and thus protect a ball carrier. We cannot break down a spread-out run-and-carry - the same system that served us so well when we've demolished teams is now annihilating us.

I genuinely can't look at today and say that any particular player was godawful. I can say a few were poor, some were quiet, but none had an absolute howler. Instead, it seems that the entire thing is based around our failure to operate once again without the footy in hand.

Sorry but you've listed several of the reasons, not all mind you, why we were [censored] today and then say we're not playing all that badly. I could be excused for asking the question; are you arguing for the prosecution or the defence?

[Jordie_tackles 354]

My biggest issues were the clearances and midfield work all day.

-lack of tackling

-handballing it to stationary targets

-especially in the 3rd

-Jamar offers nothing around the ground, and isnt winning the taps well

I thought the zones when we could set up were strong, in the first half anyway

-it is when we dont have time to set up that players get caught out

I think we are beginning to get it, we kept them in the game in the first half with a couple of loose handballs which resulted in goals

then the 3rd was obviously a disaster.

Is sad when Watts and Howe are played on the ball and our your 2 best players on the ground......both meant to be hald forwards atm in honesty, with quality mids adding to the mix.

But i agree, we were blown away in the 3rd which makes everything look worse than it may be

[The Red Fox 216]

Fatigue was a big problem.

We've got one of the best fitness guys in the game. We've raised the bar on previous pre-seasons and had our physically toughest pre season on record.

Our players are accused of not running enough during the game... but we're out on our feet at half time?

What gives? Anyone??

[Striker475 696]

Sorry but you've listed several of the reasons, not all mind you, why we were [censored] today and then say we're not playing all that badly. I could be excused for asking the question; are you arguing for the prosecution or the defence?

I'm of the belief that we're getting smashed in a couple of particular areas. In particular, countering the run-and-carry and generally our speed against the opposition ball carriers.

We're winning the contested ball, we're mostly hitting targets, we're converting our chances.

[Still Waiting 94]

How ashamed must the players now be? They really appear to not put a lot of effort into chasing! Some of our boys are just unfit compared to the teams we have played. The individual players desire seems to be on about 40% on average. You could maybe name a max of 6 that appeared to think we might even sneak a win today. Jeez it was embarrassing (again) still !

Attitude = everything!

[Dee Fan 3,247]

I'm of the belief that we're getting smashed in a couple of particular areas. In particular, countering the run-and-carry and generally our speed against the opposition ball carriers.

We're winning the contested ball, we're mostly hitting targets, we're converting our chances.

It's not so much the speed as the overlap, we are always in no mans land between two opposition players, so one has the ball we run at him he hands the ball off and our player has to run and chase the other player after giving him a 5 metre start, anyone would look quick if he has that sort of start. We are stilted, we have no attacking flair, we seem to have had all our "footballers natural instinct" knocked out of us.

[The Red Fox 216]

Mids were the problem today, back line has no hope when the ball is coming in that many times.

2011 leading disposals (average)

Moloney - 23.1

Jones - 23.0

Scully - 20.8

Trengrove - 20.3

Sylvia - 20.0

Mckenzie - 20.0

Gysberts - 19.4

And our ruckman is terribly out of sorts.

Not an excuse, rather an observation from someone who is yet to see a premiership match this year... we just don't have the midfield cattle at the moment.

[Norm Smith's Curse 2,602]

How ashamed must the players now be? They really appear to not put a lot of effort into chasing! Some of our boys are just unfit compared to the teams we have played. The individual players desire seems to be on about 40% on average. You could maybe name a max of 6 that appeared to think we might even sneak a win today. Jeez it was embarrassing (again) still !

Attitude = everything!

I keep hearing that they are 'gutted' and then they'll talk about a 'few home truths' again before undoubtedly dishing up the same shizen again...

Fitness isnt up to standard, midfield is basically not even VFL standard, forward line pressure is poor, backline doing its best and getting lost of game time.

What looked like a half decent midfield in previous seasons just seems way below par at the moment for some reason. Im not sure why but it does suck.

Edited April 14, 2012 by Norm Smith's Curse

[timD 994]

They are getting murdered when they don't have the ball. Their use is fumbly and ineffective when they do have it. It is a straight-up class-around-the-pill issue. It isn't the game plan or the fitness or anyting else. It is that we cannot use the ball and we are not playing a smart midfield game generally.

[Jordie_tackles 354]

Moloney and Sylvia will be 2 huge ins imo

People had a crack at Moloney but i reckon he would have helped today, and Sylvia's worste is alot better than what a saw from a heap of blokes today

[Norm Smith's Curse 2,602]

Moloney and Jones together = some semblence of a midfield.

[Adam The God 30,259]

Thought Martin's "chasing" was pathetic. Walked around and appeared lost most of the game. Took a great mark and then couldn't convert (playing as a key forward) from 20 metres directly in front. Subbing him was clearly the right move.

Meanwhile, Davey's applied pressure was at about 70%. Bate didn't do enough and neither did Dunn or Sellar.

My sister made a really salient point following the match. Just about the only player in our forward half willing to chase was an import from another club - Mitch Clark. Another damning pointer toward our pitiful club culture.

The majority of our midfielders are too slow. We don't have any line-breakers in the middle. You can afford slow midfielders, as long as they've got dashers around them. They are also not working anywhere near hard enough when the opposition spreads by hand (the essence of the OP).

Edited April 14, 2012 by AdamFarr

[praha 11,240]

Just lost to Richmond by 10 goals.

We are playing badly.

There's being positive, and then there's being a delusional halfwit.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Thought Martin's "chasing" was pathetic. Walked around and appeared lost most of the game. Took a great mark and then couldn't convert (playing as a key forward) from 20 metres directly in front. Subbing him was clearly the right move.

Meanwhile, Davey's applied pressure was about at 70%. Bate didn't do enough and neither did Dunn or Sellar.

My sister made a really salient point following the match. Just about the only player in our forward half willing to chase was an import from another club - Mitch Clark. Another damning pointer toward our pitiful club culture.

The majority of our midfielders are too slow. We don't have any line-breakers in the middle. You can afford slow midfielders, as long as they've got dashers around them. They are also not working anywhere near hard enough when the opposition spreads by hand (the essence of the OP).

I felt embarrassed today and felt the club should apologise to Mitch for luring him in to our pathetic club; he must wonder why the other players don't seem to give a damn.

[Striker475 696]

I felt embarrassed today and felt the club should apologise to Mitch for luring him in to our pathetic club; he must wonder why the other players don't seem to give a damn.

Should make him captain. FCS he's the only one seeming to do that.

[Maldonboy38 6,403]

In part Striker, I agree with you. However, two glaring areas of weakness killed us time and time again today.

1. To use a tennis term "unforced errors". Our back 6 would win the ball, get it to the wing and the next disposal would be inexplicably poor. Missing targets, kicking blindly, or even centring it and having it cut off.

2. Our work around stoppages when Richmond won the ball. They would spread and end up with 3 versus 1 and run it freely through the middle of the ground. Our defensive gut running is horrible, and if we did not have Jones today, and to a lesser extend Jordie, we would not have been within 15 goals of the tigers.

But as for your comments about not thinking any of our players were awful, I reckon you may need to get your eyes tested. Morton, Bate, and Bartram lacked class and effort and trailed thier opponents for much of the day. When they did get clear, with a few exceptions they were embarrasing.

[beelzebub 23,376]

re topic..

yes we are... simple as. its a bugger but what is is, and what isnt , isnt...and we isnt ( sic ) within a bulls roar of a competitive AFl team yet. The "yet " is the only qualifier and we wont know till further down this muddy track. And im giving the benefit of doubt that its only mud !!!

[RalphiusMaximus 6,053]

Our clearance work would improve drastically if Jamar would learn where to hit the ball. He gets his hands on it, but rarely to advantage. He needs a better understanding with all of our midfielders, not just Moloney. He also needs to hit it further from his own feet. We got caned today because all of our mids were clustered in tight and the second the ball came out of the circle it was a free possession to Richmond. Their clearance players knew that all they needed was to get their hands on it for a second and flick a handball out five metres or so and there would be no Melbourne player to intercept. If we can fix this one aspect of our game we will see a massive improvement in the results.

[Norm Smith's Curse 2,602]

Mitch will be a great forward if he can get some delivery.

[Hells Gates 505]

Didn't watch the game as I'm out at work but:

Richmond won disposals 427-268 must tell a story?

Inside 50's Richmond 65-30. Only 30 is that stat correct?

We have been playing pathetically so far compared to 2010. What has happened!

[H_T 3,047]

They are getting murdered when they don't have the ball. Their use is fumbly and ineffective when they do have it. It is a straight-up class-around-the-pill issue. It isn't the game plan or the fitness or anyting else. It is that we cannot use the ball and we are not playing a smart midfield game generally.

This is it. We don't have class and we have arguably the worst midfield. Even with Moloney and Sylvia in.

[Adam The God 30,259]

Our clearance work would improve drastically if Jamar would learn where to hit the ball. He gets his hands on it, but rarely to advantage. He needs a better understanding with all of our midfielders, not just Moloney. He also needs to hit it further from his own feet. We got caned today because all of our mids were clustered in tight and the second the ball came out of the circle it was a free possession to Richmond. Their clearance players knew that all they needed was to get their hands on it for a second and flick a handball out five metres or so and there would be no Melbourne player to intercept. If we can fix this one aspect of our game we will see a massive improvement in the results.

That's all very well, but if you set your followers up poorly at stoppages, Jamar is only partly to blame. Royal and to an extent Neeld have to be accountable for this. The way you set up at stoppages is more vital than ever before in the modern game. Clearances are king and if you get first use of the football, you're half way there.

Edited April 14, 2012 by AdamFarr