Change in game beat Demon recruiters

[darkhorse72 1,872]

Interesting article in the paper today.

Demons' recruiters beaten by the press

Basically we recruited well as the time but the game changed ie press, and that changed the sort of player clubs need.

We need strong bodied hard players, not fast light players...keep feeding those boys

[Guest Jackie]

I thought our mission then was to recruit bruise free footballers.

[The Chazz 4,077]

The game will always change. While we may not have had the players that could play "today's game", that doesn't mean that those players won't be able to play "tomorrow's game". For all we know, those players could be the ones changing the game, and will force other teams to make chages.

I have no doubt Bailey thought the same thing, and sacrificed his coaching career believing it. It is now up to Neeld to make the tracks, not follow, because as histroy shows, and it's a certainty that the future will bring, the path we follow will change at some stage.

[Choko 493]

It's interesting, because I remember going to hear Barry Prendergast and others (including Cam Schwab) speak about list management and planning. One of the factors that BP in particular focused on was trying to predict where football was going, as part of the strategy to make the best list management and recruitment decisions. So Niall's comments that we tried to predict where the footballers would develop, but not football, is probably not fair. I do recall BP saying that elite ball use and endurance were going to be key issues in the way football was likely to evolve in the next few years. I don't recall anything about needing "gorillas" to beat the press.

It would be fascinating to see whether BP's predictions for where footy was heading were off, and whether that incorrect assumption lead to certain decisions being made that would have been made differently if different assumptions were used.

[mauriesy 7,184]

Interesting article, but I hardly think the difference between WC and Melbourne is Watts/Blease as opposed to Naitanui/Shuey. It's far more than that.

It does support Melbourne's decision to recruit Clark, regardless of what we paid for him, and to get some bodies like Magner and Couch. I also hope people here understand where Neeld is trying to take the team with his defensive mindset.

[Bonkers 990]

The game will always change. While we may not have had the players that could play "today's game", that doesn't mean that those players won't be able to play "tomorrow's game". For all we know, those players could be the ones changing the game, and will force other teams to make chages.

I have no doubt Bailey thought the same thing, and sacrificed his coaching career believing it. It is now up to Neeld to make the tracks, not follow, because as histroy shows, and it's a certainty that the future will bring, the path we follow will change at some stage.

Fact is strong bodied contested football teams that can win their own ball & keep it will win finals football. Nothing has changed in over 50 years except the professionalism. The media & most followers of the game think its a magic formula, when you strip it back it is a very simple game. Pick kids that can play the game, win their own ball & will play contested football!!!

[Guest Dr Who]

Much better article and a credit to Jake Niall - well written, well researched and blows big fat Dennis away. Welcome to AFL football 2012.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

I maintain that clubs should always look to have a balance of tall, small, fast and tough players no matter the latest trend in how the game is played.

[Deeoldfart 7,999]

The article probably has some truth to it, but it doesn't for one minute excuse the woeful skills, softness and poor work ethic that we've shown in rounds 1 and 2.

[Ouch! 2,215]

Interesting article, but I hardly think the difference between WC and Melbourne is Watts/Blease as opposed to Naitanui/Shuey. It's far more than that.

I agree Maurie, whilst the general gist of the article is that MFC might have misjudged things... how people continually bring it back to NikNat v Watts is beyond me.

... the relevance to Hurley might be a better way to do it, but if we look at the top 5 picked... I doubt the order would be different regardless of who had the picks (possibly WA clubs taking NikNat first....) but not that much difference...

[The Chazz 4,077]

Fact is strong bodied contested football teams that can win their own ball & keep it will win finals football. Nothing has changed in over 50 years except the professionalism. The media & most followers of the game think its a magic formula, when you strip it back it is a very simple game. Pick kids that can play the game, win their own ball & will play contested football!!!

Totally agree Bonkers. I would imagine the "true" inside mids that we had/have in Jones and Moloney was seen by BP/DB as starting the foundations. They added in Tapscott, and to some degree McKenzie, and of course Trengove, who can all go in and win their own ball.

It will be interesting to see what Blease, Gysberts, Morton and Strauss are like when they are actually adults. I still think they are boys in this league, and the teams that have "grown up" (Geelong, West Coast, Hawthorn, and Collingwood and Carlton - the latter 2 I believe have only just become men), are just physically and mentally making us look insipid.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Interesting article in the paper today.

Demons' recruiters beaten by the press

Basically we recruited well as the time but the game changed ie press, and that changed the sort of player clubs need.

We need strong bodied hard players, not fast light players...keep feeding those boys

Hmmn, he copied our thesis, & produced his article. He's right tho. Thats whats happened.

BUT !!! We have NOT recruited badly!!! Those boys are all talented. But compared to the heavier stronger boys recruited by other clubs,,, ours will develop but slower because they're lighter. But more talented.

'Our boys', because of their strengths, learned to play a game based around Using those strengths. Now they have to learn a differing style, which they will. Bennell & Blease included... it will take a little bit of time, just as it would if they played elsewhere...

In the meantime, we have started on a mature age hard bodied 'speed up development process'. With other tough & talented players, coming your way Soon.

.

I thought our mission then was to recruit bruise free footballers.

We started last draft recruiting a tougher brand of kid, since Mitch Robinson did Us the Biggest favour of Labelling us, 'Bruise Free'... His honesty has kickstarted us into a reality we've avoided for Decades...

That fateful loss to Carlton will IMO, be the most Important game in our recent history of the Last 20 Years... It Stung, & the truth Hurt. It's awoken Us the the reality of AFL.

[old55 22,990]

Rubbish article - as Choko says BP went after good ball using skills, endurance and contested ball winning skills - universally useful attributes. To make a case based on the narrow focus of Naitanui v Watts v Hurley and Shuey v Blease is ridiculous. I notice he quickly glossed over Strauss v Swift. What about Gysberts and Tapscott? There's a prevailing view that our recruiting is crap and that BP is a dud - this will be proven incorrect when sufficient time plays out for the players he selected. As Clint says - good players with a balance of attributes is what is required - if as many would like - we now go solely for one-paced endurance bulls we'll be sorry.

[rpfc 28,073]

It's amazing so many 'respected' and 'seasoned' assistant coaches from other clubs are infatuated with us...

And why is Niall comparing us to WCE?

Because of the Watts and NikNat draft?

If you gave us Embley, Cox, Kerr, Glass, Lynch, Priddis, and LeCras as senior players - we would be far better than we are now.

Their resurgence has very little to do with NikNat and Shuey...

So I don't see it as relevant at all.

Another crap addition to The Troubling Case of the Recruitment of Jack Watts © dossier...

[Guest Dr Who]

Hmmn, he copied our thesis, & produced his article. He's right tho. Thats whats happened.

BUT !!! We have NOT recruited badly!!! Those boys are all talented. But compared to the heavier stronger boys recruited by other clubs,,, ours will develop but slower because they're lighter. But more talented.

'Our boys', because of their strengths, learned to play a game based around Using those strengths. Now they have to learn a differing style, which they will. Bennell & Blease included... it will take a little bit of time, just as it would if they played elsewhere...

In the meantime, we have started on a mature age hard bodied 'speed up development process'. With other tough & talented players, coming your way Soon.

.

We started last draft recruiting a tougher brand of kid, since Mitch Robinson did Us the Biggest favour of Labelling us, 'Bruise Free'... His honesty has kickstarted us into a reality we've avoided for Decades...

That fateful loss to Carlton will IMO, be the most Important game in our recent history of the Last 20 Years... It Stung, & the truth Hurt. It's awoken Us the the reality of AFL.

Sounds like you are moving into the development camp - welcome aboard. Development takes TIME such is life. Development takes MONEY such is life.

[Guest Dr Who]

It's amazing so many 'respected' and 'seasoned' assistant coaches from other clubs are infatuated with us...

And why is Niall comparing us to WCE?

Because of the Watts and NikNat draft?

If you gave us Embley, Cox, Kerr, Glass, Lynch, Priddis, and LeCras as senior players - we would be far better than we are now.

Their resurgence has very little to do with NikNat and Shuey...

So I don't see it as relevant at all.

Another crap addition to The Troubling Case of the Recruitment of Jack Watts © dossier...

More waffle-waffle-waffle - you can lead a donkey to water - but you cant make it drink. Change or die (PS thats my campaign slogan)

[jnrmac 19,930]

It's interesting, because I remember going to hear Barry Prendergast and others (including Cam Schwab) speak about list management and planning. One of the factors that BP in particular focused on was trying to predict where football was going, as part of the strategy to make the best list management and recruitment decisions. So Niall's comments that we tried to predict where the footballers would develop, but not football, is probably not fair. I do recall BP saying that elite ball use and endurance were going to be key issues in the way football was likely to evolve in the next few years. I don't recall anything about needing "gorillas" to beat the press.

It would be fascinating to see whether BP's predictions for where footy was heading were off, and whether that incorrect assumption lead to certain decisions being made that would have been made differently if different assumptions were used.

He was right about that part.

[dee-luded 2,959]

I agree Maurie, whilst the general gist of the article is that MFC might have misjudged things... how people continually bring it back to NikNat v Watts is beyond me.

... the relevance to Hurley might be a better way to do it, but if we look at the top 5 picked... I doubt the order would be different regardless of who had the picks (possibly WA clubs taking NikNat first....) but not that much difference...

We go for flash over dull gems, lithe over hardcore razzle dazzle, (Buddy)

It does show our propensity to as a club Culture, look for the exquisite rather than the robust. When in reality we need a balance of both.

[McQueen 17,864]

Both Watts and Blease will fair better with an extra 5 kilos on them - we know that. Nothing new here...

Shuey at this stage is a far better player than Blease.

[Sir Why You Little 36,735]

These articles just depress me. Does this club play in the AFL comp or the Amateurs?

[dee-luded 2,959]

Sounds like you are moving into the development camp - welcome aboard. Development takes TIME such is life. Development takes MONEY such is life.

Moving into, I've always been there DR. I've known we lack quality development for at least the last 4 - 5 years, & it's Imperative.

But I'm of the school to get your Elite young talent in your first bottom out years while you can, then add the 'rugged' after them. This is for the quickest List accumulation.

Go the other way, and you'll be off the bottom quick smart with hard ball winners, but the list will forever Lack the class to get above 9thish.

I'm in the 'take the pain & shame school', then add the grunt & climb through development... each phase as its appropriate.

[Bonkers 990]

Totally agree Bonkers. I would imagine the "true" inside mids that we had/have in Jones and Moloney was seen by BP/DB as starting the foundations. They added in Tapscott, and to some degree McKenzie, and of course Trengove, who can all go in and win their own ball.

It will be interesting to see what Blease, Gysberts, Morton and Strauss are like when they are actually adults. I still think they are boys in this league, and the teams that have "grown up" (Geelong, West Coast, Hawthorn, and Collingwood and Carlton - the latter 2 I believe have only just become men), are just physically and mentally making us look insipid.

That's right. Look at the dominant teams over the last 3 decades as an example. Geelong, Brisbane, Essendon & Hawthorn all had common traits, that they were big & aggressive. At the moment we are boys against men in this comp. I'm not convinced our rebuild has been perfect however I think we have some very talented footballers, a few won't make it but some of them are just being asked to do too much. The gap is more to do with our older players not being up to it & the club not being able to bring in ready made replacements or get the best out of them through their earlier football development mentally & physically.

[rpfc 28,073]

More waffle-waffle-waffle - you can lead a donkey to water - but you cant make it drink. Change or die (PS thats my campaign slogan)

You must be Yze Magic.

No other poster can complete the dual tasks of disrupting Demonland while also being a vacuum of intelligent thought.

[Axis of Bob 11,285]

It's interesting. But we are already starting to see teams beating the press.

We saw what happened when we tried to chase after the prevailing trend - we went for big butts because of Brisbane in the early 2000s, but then the game started going uncontested and we were stuffed! Very few of those players are still around. The aim is to look at players and select those which are adaptable - those that will have a role to play in any side. These players need to be able to run, win the footy and use it well.

Watts will be a top class in any era. He can run, win the footy, great size and exquisite user of the ball. Will he end up as a power forward or as a midfielder? It doesn't really matter because he'll be a star in either role as he gets bigger and his endurance improves. Everyone is enamoured with Buddy as a big power forward, but really he can't mark the footy unless he's one on one - yet this is some sort of deal breaker for Watts?

Blease has done one preseason since he was about 15 or 16 and has improved his running ability enormously this year. But he still needs plenty of time to get this up to standard. His aerobic base is so low that he would be struggling to breathe at times last year after playing a few minutes as a loose man in defence for the Casey reserves! He's a player who needs time, because he will be the sort of player that good teams need to break the play open (in any game style). Speed athletes need time to improve their aerobic capacity to AFL standard, like we have seen with Dale Thomas, Colin Sylvia, Aaron Davey, Brett Deledio, Trent Cotchin. Chris Yarran etc. Blease's injuries haven't let him do that yet.

Bennell has heaps of talent, but doesn't win enough of the ball. At the same age Aaron Davey, another speed athlete, couldn't even get on an AFL list! He has shown glimpses of real quality, but just isn't doing it enough. That is something that often comes with maturity and confidence.

Teams are already starting to beat the press. What's the next phase? Hawthorn kick through it, while other teams are running through it. Teams are trying to move the ball really quickly, and that requires players that run quickly and kick with penetration. We have those players, but these are the players that take longer to develop.

It's very fashionable now to kick our list after some losses while they are adapting to a new defensive game. However these players are there, but will take some more time. They also need some quality around them to make their qualities more valuable.

[Guest Dr Who]

These articles just depress me. Does this club play in the AFL comp or the Amateurs?

Depress you because you dont understand them? We play in the AFL but we struggle to reach the football department budgets ($$$$) of an AFL side.