THE EXILE

[Sir Why You Little 34,617]

Great article by Flanagan once again. He really should publish all his writing in hardback form.

This is a case of Black Man Law v White Man Law so it is impossible to forecast the future.

Last night i spoke to an ambulance attendant who worked the wednesday night up in Alice, she described the scene as far worse than the media had portrayed. She was sick and tired of the feud and wanted to lock them all away.

Typical white man reaction was my first thought.

Selecting a judge and jury for this case will be paramount. They must understand both cultures. Otherwise i fear that we have seen the last of the wizard on the MCG.

[Nasher 33,130]

I don't think people should be trying to speculate on the outcome or evidence of the trial.

I completely agree Clint, and have removed the posts accordingly. People, please don't use this thread to discuss the incident or the possibilities of the trial.

[Satan 2,776]

I noticed some posts moderated.

I think these threads should be locked as charges have been laid and any discussion about jurrah at melbourne is likely to touch on the case. Also the fact that the case is not mentioned in nt press means we can discuss here on the site and elsewhere ie hsun is rubbish. As mentioned they have the internet , cable tv etc in the nt . Also talking about the case may lead to defamatory comments . We dont want this site taken down and the webmaster sued.

My 2 cents worth

[Whispering_Jack 28,010]

Hey Jack. Just a small, but at the same time significant thing. Little Sisters is in Alice not Yuendumu. Cheers.

Thanks Fork.

You're right it might be a small thing but it's significant in the context of the narrative. From the vantage point of Melbourne, so many thousands of K's away, a few hundred kilometres doesn't sound much.

How are things in the centre and is Liam's jumper still holding pride of place up there?

Also, are they aware that the yuendumumagpies.com domain has expired or is that part of the problems afflicting the community?

[dee-luded 2,958]

Murdoch rag = ethics free zone

A scummy mould has descended around the globe, & no 'White King' will clean this away easily... It's had 40+ years to grab hold....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sun_(newspaper)

[DemonDave 1,078]

None of that stuff was published in the NT press, so as not to affect the trial.

Really? Sure looks like it was to me:

http://www.ntnews.com.au/uploads/front-pages/ntnewsfrontlge.jpg

[daisycutter 28,624]

......

This is a case of Black Man Law v White Man Law so it is impossible to forecast the future.

.......

With all due respect wyl it is about a lot, lot more than just law or a clash of laws. That certainly may be one aspect of it, but only one of many.

Best not to over-generalise

Cheers

[red and blue forever 781]

When i first hear of the incident, mhy mind went streight to the Alan Didak situation of a few years ago. wether Liam is guilty or not, the trial by media has started to hang him out to dry, and his reputation will suffer because of it.

Liam has always (publicly) been a very quiet and reserved man and seemed a little uncomfortable in the spotlight. I think he would have just prefered to play footy and not have to deal with the external pressure.

over the next few years he started to get more relaxed in the media spotlight, especially as the spotlight was showing his brilliance. but with that spotlight now showing a negative view, I hope the pressure is not too much for him.

Didak struggled with form during the media pressure, and you could argue that Nick riewoldt struggled last year partly due to the negative media that was placed on him too. How will Liam go given his uncomfort with media as a whole?

[Sir Why You Little 34,617]

With all due respect wyl it is about a lot, lot more than just law or a clash of laws. That certainly may be one aspect of it, but only one of many.

Best not to over-generalise

Cheers

Of course it is a clash of law & culture. In Liam's world he & his people are seeking retribution for what happened 2 years ago. Something their people have lived under for 1000's of years.

Is a white judge and jury going to take that into account? and should they?

[Satan 2,776]

The herald sun at it best

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/richmond-surges-to-quarter-time-lead-over-geelong/story-e6frf9io-1226295788978

Ivan maric a former melbourne player?

Enough said lol

( ivan was a adelaide player )

[Chook 14,594]

I found a great video that gives some insight into the Indigenous Law from Liam Jurrah's part of the country. It's only short (3 mins long), but it is really quite educational. Little things like this becoming more widely viewed would give a lot of Australians a greater appreciation of the extreme culture clash that can occur when White Law and Black Law meet.

[Satan 2,776]

When i first hear of the incident, mhy mind went streight to the Alan Didak situation of a few years ago. wether Liam is guilty or not, the trial by media has started to hang him out to dry, and his reputation will suffer because of it.

Liam has always (publicly) been a very quiet and reserved man and seemed a little uncomfortable in the spotlight. I think he would have just prefered to play footy and not have to deal with the external pressure.

over the next few years he started to get more relaxed in the media spotlight, especially as the spotlight was showing his brilliance. but with that spotlight now showing a negative view, I hope the pressure is not too much for him.

Didak struggled with form during the media pressure, and you could argue that Nick riewoldt struggled last year partly due to the negative media that was placed on him too. How will Liam go given his uncomfort with media as a whole?

Didak was fortunate the person concerned pleaded guilty to the incident otherwise he would have been a crown witness. So his evidence in court would have been compared to the story he told his club and media . Any differences would have been most intresting

[bing181 8,176]

Liam has always (publicly) been a very quiet and reserved man and seemed a little uncomfortable in the spotlight. I think he would have just prefered to play footy and not have to deal with the external pressure.

Which is something he hasn't be able to do of late. You wonder (or I do) how much of a problem this wrist injury has been, dragging on as it has since August last year, through a series of (failed?) ops, and all the time stopping him doing the one thing that gives his life meaning in Melbourne, footy. The club apparently told him he needed to do a solid month of training before playing any game at all, but with upcoming events back home (a funeral and the birth of his baby), he must have been wondering when he was ever going to run out onto the MCG again.

[bing181 8,176]

Does anyone know the extent of the injuries. In the HUN article, Basil's wife says he had 6 stitches. For whatever reason, I was expecting the injuries to be more severe.

Me also. Not only is he well enough to give an interview, but if you're attacked by any sharp weapon, the first place you get cut up is your arms as you try to protect yourself.

Not questioning his version of events either.

[bing181 8,176]

As a contribution to some of the background reading here, the following is worth a look. It's a transcript of the sentencing for Jurrah's co-accussed in this case, Chris Walker, for the original stabbing and death incident. An insight into Liam's world.

http://www.supremecourt.nt.gov.au/documents/sentencing_remarks/2012/2/Sims_Walker_27022012_21029579_21030455_SenNet.pdf

[Grapeviney 8,846]

His injured wrist will heal over time but Jurrah also has to contend with new systems introduced at the football club requiring a different style of game. It is still unclear as to whether he can adapt to those changes

Putting aside the allegations and the charges, and speaking selfishly from a purely football perspective, that is the nub of the matter WJ.

The way I see it there are three possible outcomes:

One, Jurrah modifies his game to adapt to the systems and structures demanded by the new regime.

Two, Neeld sees value in having a brilliant player with freakish talents who can turn it on at the drop of the hat but who basically plays to his own rules and rhythms.

Three, Jurrah and MFC part company.

Of course, there's a lot of water to pass under the bridge before we even contemplate that equation.

My fingers are crossed - no Melbourne footballer has excited me so much since Schwarz of '94.

Thanks to all those posters here and on the other locked thread for providing links to some of the background / insight into indigenous culture and law.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

I'm sorry, but I don't buy this idea that Jurrah can't adapt to the new "systems and changes". Yes there are changes, but at the end of the day it is still football and Jurrah is one of the most talented and skilled players in the AFL. Also, the fact that he has come from desert football and starred in the AFL highlights his ability to adapt to new styles of football.

Every time the ball went to ground in the forward line last night I was thinking just how badly we needed someone of Jurrah's class around goals.

[the fork 357]

Thanks Fork.

You're right it might be a small thing but it's significant in the context of the narrative. From the vantage point of Melbourne, so many thousands of K's away, a few hundred kilometres doesn't sound much.

How are things in the centre and is Liam's jumper still holding pride of place up there?

Also, are they aware that the yuendumumagpies.com domain has expired or is that part of the problems afflicting the community?

Hey Jack. The centre of Australia is a troubled space, now more so than ever in my time here.

I dont want the broader issues and incidents I discuss in the following post to reflect on Liam and the incident that he has alleged to have been a part of. Nor do I wish to suppose to have any specific knowledge on the Yuendumu situation. But perhaps some of the following can provide some context for understanding the reported events on Wednesday night and the commentary that has flowed since.

The incident earlier this week, allegedly involving possibly this countrys most famous indigenous person, seems to have (momentarily) thrust some attention upon the difficult lives of Aboriginal people in Central Australia. The popular media has suggested that this incident was cultural. It also seems to have been suggested that our inability to properly comprehend this incident stems from our disinterest and our collective failure to understand Aboriginal people and their culture. A part of this I agree with, I see something a little different however in how the incident itself has been reported and interpreted.

This incident, as we know, was part of an ongoing feud. It has been suggested that those involved were part of a legitimate attempt at ritual retribution. I think it is important when interpreting the events of the week to have some historical understanding of payback and how it has evolved into what it is today. Historically payback in the Western Desert occasionally involved groups of males (ritual avengers) who sought out specific individuals deemed to have caused wrong to a family member of theirs. They were not random acts of violence. When the guilty party was located a confrontation, either by ambush or in special circumstances, a mutually organised event took place.

In some instances during post-contact times payback evolved into a highly organised, strictly governed sequence of events (more like a performance or ceremony) that was minutely controlled by a group of senior men. The physical act, of the spearing in most instances, was always performed by the appropriate avenging family member who was either experienced in such acts or was closely instructed by the afore mentioned senior men. This was often to ensure the wound was not fatal and to satisfy those seeking retribution by way of the temporary affliction of pain and crippling upon the wrong-doer.

I have witnessed a recent (8 years ago) version of such events. It was attended by the entire community, it occurred in the middle of the day and in a neutral part of the community. It all transpired under the close surveillance of an experienced team of members from the Northern Territory Police force. Medical staff from the local clinic were also on hand to tend to the resultant wounds after the procedure was complete. At no stage did this event stray from its intent. It saw a partial end to the ill feeling between the two families involved and the same process settled a number of other ongoing disputes. This is not to say however that the original act of violence or sorcery was forgotten or forgiven. Often the ramifications of such incidents last and manifest themselves in other ways. Such carefully organised events are unfortunately rare.

Current acts of payback in the town camps of Alice Springs happens on an almost weekly basis. The disturbing, almost guaranteed ingredient these days however is of course alcohol. There has been a strong tendency, over a number of decades, to attempt to excuse pure drunken violence as cultural payback. It is problematic then when Wednesday nights incident, which it must be said, was typical of the norm in Central Australia, is reported, interpreted and then understood as some sort of traditional or culturally sanctioned right of passage. There is a vast irreconcilable difference between the strictly governed form of retribution described previously and the alcohol fueled free-for-all that is currently commonplace. Whilst I believe there needs to be an acknowledgement of Aboriginal law within Whitefella law, which I extend to include controlled retribution, I do not accept the oft presented and disturbingly popular consideration that the violence as it occurs almost nightly in Alice Springs is cultural. There must come a time when racial politics must step aside and yield to reason.

Make no mistake, I believe Liam was/is highly obliged to play his role as a well regarded member of a family involved in a complex dispute. The words in the previous sentence may sound pithy, but the heavy expectation upon family in Central Australian indigenous culture is impossible to fathom from the outside, where I consider myself to sit. Liam is expected and obliged to express his feelings about the death of his kin. Violence, it is said, is an expression of feeling (this comes from an excellent book on a neighboring cultural group the Pintupi).

Liam is obviously attempting not to shirk his responsibilities in two worlds with two differing peer groups. Because when its all over and he returns to the Western Desert with a premiership medallion around his neck, he must face his family and stand as the true Warlpiri man I expect he is. I try to remind myself that every football career is a relatively short one and that football is just a part of his life. This is a bitter pill to swallow if you are footy mad and not understanding of Liams extreme circumstance. None of this explains why he was at Little Sisters and he put himself in the circumstance he did. None of this excuses his actions. It is devastating and together we feel it. The one thing I take solace in though is Liam himself. Some thought Rudeboys fantastic biography on Liam was premature and a few never bought into Brett Badgers assertion that for Liam the journey to game number 1 was greater than the journey to game 200. Ive met Liam a few times, but dont know him from a bar of soap. What I do know though is where he has come from, my wife grew up on a neighboring community Even if you saw it with you own eyes, you like me, would still fail to fathom it.

The Liam Jurrah effect in Central Australia is palpable. Kids want to be him and wear our colours because he does. These kids have had a magnificent role model, which for me is what makes this week so difficult to swallow. Cars parade around the desert emblazoned in windscreen-wide Demons stickers. A relative of his I know well, whose name is spelt slightly differently due to a bureaucratic misspelling, desperately wants to change his name by deedpoll, so proud he is of his nephew Liam and his relationship to him.

I suppose my motivation for writing this post is multi-pronged. I hope the complexity of Liams situation is a little more exposed and that understanding may come from it. I also want to respond to the concern some posters share about the circumstance of people in Central Australia. Because this is the guts of the pain and confusion we have felt this week.

Liam has made a series of bad decisions to be in the position he is. But I encourage you all to stand by him and our proud club on our collective learning curve. When he returns to play the game he loves consider for a moment not just the journey Liam continues to travel upon, but the journey we, as his supporters, do as well.

----

Indigenous disadvantage in this country is a real thing. I cannot begin to discuss this issue here as it just doesnt feel right. But remember this; Liam comes from a chronically underfunded community where there is almost zero opportunities for long-term meaningful employment. His family have probably never had the opportunity to own their own home. The Fedral Governments Intervention saw all Aboriginal men throughout the Territory cast with the suspicion of being drunken pornographic obsessed pedophiles. Just look at the big signs as you enter any and ever Aboriginal community here. His families income is managed by the government who tell them where they can and cannot spend their money. Some non-indigenous people who live on Aboriginal communities and receive government assistance are exempt. Why? Because their not indigenous. How? The Howard government suspended the Racial Discrimination Act in this country. Rudd and Gillard have upheld this since. Imagine how you would feel.

--------

Earlier this year a 9 year old girl hanged herself in her home community on the Anangu Pitjantjatjara Yankunytjatjara Lands in South Australia.

9 years old.

Also in Central Australia, a coroner earlier this week described the body of a domestic violence victim as having injuries consistent with what one would expect if the body had fallen from an aircraft in flight.

On Tuesday in Alice Springs a woman from a community 380kms west of Alice Springs had her throat slit. Her husband is being sought for questioning as the prime suspect in the case.

But perhaps what has motivated me to share my thoughts with you today is what I woke to this morning. Just last night a dear old friend of mine was violently stabbed to death in a camp not far from Little Sisters. He too was from a remote community and was the victim of a family dispute fueled by drugs and alcohol. His own brother is wanted for questioning. His mother inconsolable, a family devastated.

My concern, which I cannot answer, is why is this happening and why dont you as Australians know and hear about it like I do?

---

For me Jack, Demonland (& Demonologys) proudest moment was when we bought his debut guernsey and gifted it to the community of Yuendumu. I am assured it does stand as the beacon we wanted it to be and always will. I know Liams Grandmothers acceptance of our gift was a proud moment for those present. It showed that people understood, even way back then, what a special person was in our midst.

There have been questions asked during this last week of what one can do to understand, to help or assist. I might suggest some websites below of organisations that rely on the support of good people.

Mt Theo

http://www.mttheo.org/home/

Western Desert Nganampa Walytja Palyantjaku Tjutaku Aboriginal Corporation

http://wdnwpt.org.au/

The Central Australian Aboriginal Alcohol Programs Unit

http://www.caaapu.org.au/

The Ngaanyatjarra Pitjantjatjara Yankunytjatjara (NPY) Women's Council

http://www.npywc.org.au/index.html

Drug and Alcohol Services

http://www.dasa.org.au/

[Satan 2,776]

Thanks fork, explains a situation that most posters and readers here would have no comprehension of .

[Sir Why You Little 34,617]

Thanks Fork...Maybe to let Liam play football will help a very bad situation.

To send him back in disgrace could ignite a situation into complete anarchy..

i hope the judge is fully aware of all sides here...this is a very important case indeed.

[dpositive 1,552]

Thanks fork

and what a complex venture life is.

[hoopla 418]

I have had Bruce Hearn Mackinnon's "LIam Jurrah Story" on my bookshelf since Xmas. I dusted it off yesterday and finished it in one (long) sitting. Fascinating read

Not only did it give me a greater insight into this complex issue - but it reconfirmed my faith in Liam. I recommend it to all

[Whispering_Jack 28,010]

Hey Jack. The centre of Australia is a troubled space, now more so than ever in my time here.

Quality post Fork and worthy of an article on its own if you would like to rework it into that form.

I think your post, the output of Martin Flanagan and this article on the Drum by Gerard Whateley A remote concept serve to help us outsiders grasp some sort of understanding of the problems of communities such as Yuendumu.

There is one aspect which I diverge in opinion from that of Whateley in that this "was never a football story." To be certain, it was a rare glimpse into Indigenous Australia but I really believe it remains very much a football story as well.

Absent football and the tragedy would remain but it would never have made so clear the message we've received in the past few days. The fact that it is a football story has raised the public's level of awareness to a point where if anything can be done externally to help these people there is more chance now than ever before.

Unfortunately, I personally have no answer to what is a good outcome for this situation or how it can even be achieved.

[Kento80 83]

Thank you so much for that Fork, it is greatly appreciated. What a fantastic insight from someone who knows alot about the sort of issues people like Liam and his people have to deal with. And may I offer my deepest condolences on the loss of your friend. I hope that somehow some good can come of all this mess for all and everyone concerned, although to people like myself it is hard to see how. Such a complex issue, if only we could find the answers.

[rolly 149]

that Martin Flanagan piece was great journalism...very well written, and unassumingly emotive.

if he can talk like he can write then hutchy should [censored] off or they should make some room on the couch between roos and sheehan