Who can step up in the Midfield?

[Guest Thomo]

From reading other threads there seems to be a consensus that Melbourne lack one or two quality midfielders. All the great teams have them, and Melbourne need to draft, trade, or develop some.

Taking out the draft/trade option, who do you think has the potential to take a step up at Melbourne to provide real class through the middle?

At Collingwood Swan would not have been seen as a champion when he was drafted, Geelong have players like Bartel, Chapman who are pure class but started a bit slower.

At Melbourne 12 years ago Woewodin had a season that was better than any other in the competition (in the umpires opinion and in mine)

Trengove and Grimes are the obvious ones. Sylvia seems obvious as one that should, but may not. Jones, Moloney and McKenzie will be good support to the real class. Gysberts is a chance, but that's why he was drafted so high.

So to think of the less obvious players, my picks for those who could join the top midfielders in the comp;

Watts - I see a fair bit of James Hird in Watts. Quick, smart, tall, great skill, doesn't make bad decisions. Physically he would be a nightmare to match up on. He may be pigeon holed as a KPP because of his height, but I think he can be a tall Hird/Pendlebury

Bail - Long shot to become top class, as I currently don't have him in my best 22, but is quick and has fantastic endurance. Physically seems to be a bit like swan (with less ink and a few more brain cells), and there may be a small chance he could become the same type of player.

Frawley - Let me firstly say that I think he will be the best defender in the AFL over the next decade, and one of the best players in the AFL, however I often wonder how he would go in the midfield. He has size and strength, yet he is agile, has good skills and makes good decisions. It would really rob the backline so it shouldn't happen, but I think he could be a chance of being an exceptional midfielder, able to tear games apart.

Thoughts?

[Hells Gates 505]

Gysberts, Bail & Tapscott - this kid has got it all.

Would it be terrible of me to say Moloney, Sylvia, Jones all need to step up - which is the topic after all.....

Edited February 28, 2012 by Hells Gates

[rpfc 28,775]

Trengove, McKenzie, Bail, Gysberts, and Viney are my hopes for stars in our midfield.

There's no Ablett or Judd in there unfortunately...

Bartel, Sewell, Montagna, Corey, and Selwood are there but not an Ablett or a Judd...

[BIG JIM 508]

Good post thomo i really think that moloney could hit elite status this year i know some think he is a flat track bully on here but if melbourne get better then so will moloney i really could see him being top 3 in the brownlow this year he looks very fit and we know he has alot of guts so i think of all our current mids he is the best chance of being a real A grade mid this year and he might just have a real cracker of a season.

[H_T 3,049]

Would like to see Rohan Bail go up a gear this season, missed a fair chunk last year and impressed me in the hit and giggle in the wet last Saturday. Also would like to see Gysberts make progress. If a rookie can step up like Magner and give the team some drive in the clearances it will be a bonus.

Edit: Nicholson and Howe as well..

[The Chazz 4,077]

Trengove, McKenzie, Bail, Gysberts, and Viney are my hopes for stars in our midfield.

There's no Ablett or Judd in there unfortunately...

Bartel, Sewell, Montagna, Corey, and Selwood are there but not an Ablett or a Judd...

The last 2 premiers didn't have Ablett or Judd.

[Hells Gates 505]

The last 2 premiers didn't have Ablett or Judd.

Good point Billy.

But they had Pendlebury, Swan, Didak, Thomas, Ball etc..

And Bartel, Selwood, Chapman, Kelly, Enright, Corey etc..

I know what you're saying but were a bit of a way until even getting to that stage I think. We have a hell of a lot of work to do for a few years yet.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Hells Gates

[dee-luded 2,959]

IMO Nicholson has the pluck and agility and speed a bonus, to grow himself into a Topline Mid. He seems to have the step & reactions to operate in heavy traffic, or 'Outside'.

He IMO will develop his disposal & general play.

# Evans still an Unknown quantity at this point.

Edited February 28, 2012 by dee-luded

[hardtack 10,626]

Grimes, if he can stay on the park, could be a great midfield option (although I tend to think he will continue to play off the back line) and I think Jones has stepped up well over the past two seasons...and judging by his albeit brief appearance last Saturday night, he appears to be set to step up again this season. We tend to forget he is still quite young. Magner has shown he may well be a class act - I'm looking forward to seeing how well he goes in a full game against the Pies this weekend as that should give us a better indication of his skills.

[Hells Gates 505]

Personally I think we are a long way from home and more than what people wish to admit and we should of got our first rounders right the first time.

I know draft picks can not work out to plan but take a look around and other clubs seem to have got it on the right track.

We are killing ourselves with hope if we are praying on the likes of Sylvia, Morton, Nicholson, Blease, Bail, McKenzie etc to become an 'A' grade midfield.

Personally I think we have stuffed up big time with our golden picks, lets hope this draft we get seriously lucky. Yes I do have a problem with the way we have recruited, no hiding that, I hope someone see's where Im coming from!!

Unfortunately Scully & Scott Thompson would be handy. But life goes on.

Who's to say Neeld can't create miracles anyway & I would be very happy indeed.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Hells Gates

[The Chazz 4,077]

Good point Billy.

But they had Pendlebury, Swan, Didak, Thomas, Ball etc..

And Bartel, Selwood, Chapman, Kelly, Enright, Corey etc..

I know what you're saying but were a bit of a way until even getting to that stage I think. We have a hell of a lot of work to do for a few years yet.

We have Trengove, Grimes, Moloney, McKenzie, all of who I think . Out of Blease, Tapscott, Bail, Jones, Gysberts, Viney, Morton (I haven't lost all hope on this one!), we really need 2 or 3 of these guys to join our A-listers. Can any of those 7? I believe so. I have high hopes for Blease, I think he showed some class that will hopefully see him developed to the required level, and I believe if Tapscott can manage his injuries he has the potential to be one of our best players. The general feeling among D'landers is that Gysberts can make it, and perhaps Viney can too.

[Roost It 1,434]

We need Gysberts, Viney, Trengove, Grimes and 1 other to make up our best midfield.

That other will come from either the 2 compo picks or one of our youngsters.

[The Chazz 4,077]

Personally I think we are a long way from home and more than what people wish to admit and we should of got our first rounders right the first time.

I know draft picks can not work out to plan but take a look around and other clubs seem to have got it on the right track.

We are killing ourselves with hope if we are praying on the likes of Sylvia, Morton, Nicholson, Blease, Bail, McKenzie etc to become an 'A' grade midfield.

Personally I think we have stuffed up big time with our golden picks, lets hope this draft we get seriously lucky. Yes I do have a problem with the way we have recruited, no hiding that, I hope someone see's where Im coming from!!

Unfortunately Scully & Scott Thompson would be handy. But life goes on.

Who's to say Neeld can't create miracles anyway & I would be very happy indeed.

* Nicholson, Blease and Bail are basically untapped. I think it's a bit early to write them off, or suggest that they can't make that grade that we need them to.

* McKenzie must bloody near be in our top 5 mids already doesn't he? I'm the first to admit that I wasn't a believer of Jordie, but I think he is a very good footballer that sneaks under the radar of many clubs.

* We will know more about Sylvia and Morton by about Round 12, and we have probably discussed both players enough in other threads.

In 2006 there were a few players on that Geelong list that had some question marks next to them.

[Hells Gates 505]

We have Trengove, Grimes, Moloney, McKenzie, all of who I think . Out of Blease, Tapscott, Bail, Jones, Gysberts, Viney, Morton (I haven't lost all hope on this one!), we really need 2 or 3 of these guys to join our A-listers. Can any of those 7? I believe so. I have high hopes for Blease, I think he showed some class that will hopefully see him developed to the required level, and I believe if Tapscott can manage his injuries he has the potential to be one of our best players. The general feeling among D'landers is that Gysberts can make it, and perhaps Viney can too.

Id like to think Tapscott, Bail & Gysberts as Ive said above. I do like the looks of JV but his disposal is very questionable from what Ive seen of him playing.

* Nicholson, Blease and Bail are basically untapped. I think it's a bit early to write them off, or suggest that they can't make that grade that we need them to.

* McKenzie must bloody near be in our top 5 mids already doesn't he? I'm the first to admit that I wasn't a believer of Jordie, but I think he is a very good footballer that sneaks under the radar of many clubs.

* We will know more about Sylvia and Morton by about Round 12, and we have probably discussed both players enough in other threads.

In 2006 there were a few players on that Geelong list that had some question marks next to them.

Good point re: Geelong, I remember the media writing them off and the Hawks at that stage too. been a few premierships between the two since!!

I know you and alot of Jordie lovers will hate this but he really needs to clean up his disposal if he is to be A grade. I know there are contributing factors etc but even out in space he was doing it alot last year. I cant knock his dedication and guts though, only if everyone had his courage.

Grunt will only get us so far, I guess what Im trying to say is Im wanting some serious A grade talent in there. Lets hope everything works out fine, I wont mind looking silly if this is the case, Im just a bit worried!!!

[Maldonboy38 6,406]

If we are talking champion players like Judd, Ablett jnr, Matthews, Hird, Voss etc.. no we do not have one on our list who is showing that kind of potential. But as has been mentioned by billy2803, the last two premiers have no had no players of that quality.

However, I believe that Trengove, Gysberts and Bail have the greatest up-side, and I want to see more of Blease and Tapscott. We have ther bread-and-butter players already in Moloney, Jones and Sylvia (who should be an elite midfielder by now) but we need some class coming out of stoppages, or running the lines and breaking forward. Our desperate need is a Burgoyne/Pendlebury type player who is tallish and whose skills in traffic rarely let them down. We do not have this quality on our list currently as far as I can see.

Also, Josh Tynan has shown a bit of class and courage in the intra club, then the NAB Cup. It could be 2 years away for him but he might have a touch of class. Anyone know what his disposal is like under pressure?

[rhaz 342]

McKenzie 37 games (battled with injury)

Trengove 37

Grimes 32 (injuries)

Bail 18 (injuries)

Gysberts 18 (injuries)

Tapscott 15 (injuries)

Nicholson 9

Blease 5 (broken leg...)

Viney 0

GIVE THEM TIME. How can we be writing off our midfield when these players are averaging barely a full seasons worth of games between them, and many have struggled to have a consistent uninjured run during their time with us?

I'm patient and i have faith, i wish others did too

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

Trengove, McKenzie, Bail, Gysberts, and Viney are my hopes for stars in our midfield.

Bartel, Sewell, Montagna, Corey, and Selwood are there but not an Ablett or a Judd...

Two contradictory sentences....

[simma02 53]

IMO Nicholson has the pluck and agility and speed a bonus, to grow himself into a Topline Mid. He seems to have the step & reactions to operate in heavy traffic, or 'Outside'.

He IMO will develop his disposal & general play.

# Evans still an Unknown quantity at this point.

Nicholson won't become a top line Mid. There is no magical switch you can hit to make your disposal a-grade, just doesn't work like that. Don't get me wrong, he'll be a decent, steady player but his disposal will stop him friom being an A-Grade midfielder.

Edited February 28, 2012 by simma02

[DemonWA 3,936]

Frawley - He has size and strength, yet he is agile, has good skills and makes good decisions. Thoughts?

I actually get nervous when frawley gets the ball deep in defence, often he'll back him self to run the ball out and break tackles when the situation seems to call for a long kick towards the boundary line?!

As for A graders i have high hopes for a great deal of our young players, but i sometimes think my one eye'd ness blurs my perception. All my mates dont rate hardly any of our players and reckon North & the Tigers etc have better young mids than us.

I offer Trengove, Moloney, Jones, Gysberts, McKenzie as our best 5. They rate Cotchin, Martin, Delidio, and Co or Swallow, Harvey, Ziebell, etc much higher than our crop.

All believe that the tigers will taste success before us

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Bail already is better and has more upside than Scully. I say that even if Scully stayed.

[rpfc 28,775]

We have Trengove, Grimes, Moloney, McKenzie, all of who I think . Out of Blease, Tapscott, Bail, Jones, Gysberts, Viney, Morton (I haven't lost all hope on this one!), we really need 2 or 3 of these guys to join our A-listers. Can any of those 7? I believe so. I have high hopes for Blease, I think he showed some class that will hopefully see him developed to the required level, and I believe if Tapscott can manage his injuries he has the potential to be one of our best players. The general feeling among D'landers is that Gysberts can make it, and perhaps Viney can too.

We have A-listers?

Two contradictory sentences....

How is that?

The 5 I mentioned are all stars - the aside I was making is that there doesn't seem to be a dynamic ball-winner in the mould of a Judd or an Ablett.

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

I would argue that the reason 'elite midfielders' are labelled 'elite midfielders' is because most of them - (if not all) - are highly versatile footballers and excel in most areas of the game.

We have three in my eyes who could potentially reach that status.

Sylvia

Trengove

Grimes

All three possess an all round game. They can all mark well, can kick well, can win the hard ball, have speed, awareness, agility, flexibility. Multiple attribute players they are.

The higher one's skill level and attribute count is, the higher the chance he is of reaching 'elite'/'top class' status. Although Grimes hasn't played midfield much for us, he still possess's

those attributes that could take him to 'elite mid' status.

Moloney

Jones

Magner

Couch

Bate

J Mac

Collectively, they are all ball winners. None of them will ever reach elite status, simply because they are all too one dimensional. Some may argue that Moloney can reach it but again,

I believe he is too one dimensional. He has an elite ball winning ability, but we will never see him go forward and take a match winning contested mark, kick amazing goals, deliver the ball

with poise and finesse to a forward etc.

Bail

Nicholson

These two are really our only two straight line runners, neither of them have great footskills, neither of them are all round players. In fact I played against young Nicholson not two years back

so it's amazing he is even considered to be a top mid amongst a few on the forum. They're both elite runners. Bail seems to be improving every year, but again, while good support players, neither

will reach a top level.

Gysberts is the other who's name is thrown around as potentially becoming 'elite.' Again, he is not complete enough to make the Sylvia/Trengove/Grimes group. He doesn't possess the same footskills,

contested marking ability, speed, running ability etc. He is a fantastic ball winner again, but I don't see him becoming the player many believe he will become. He just doesn't possess the same number of attributes.

Just so people know, those potential three still haven't made it so obviously it's not as simple as it sounds. Sylvia still has his consistency/mentality issues, Trengove is still 20 and Grimes

has to stay on the park. But they are the three in my eyes who are the most gifted in multiple areas of the game and I reckon we will need a couple more before we get to where we want.

[The Chazz 4,077]

I actually get nervous when frawley gets the ball deep in defence, often he'll back him self to run the ball out and break tackles when the situation seems to call for a long kick towards the boundary line?!

As for A graders i have high hopes for a great deal of our young players, but i sometimes think my one eye'd ness blurs my perception. All my mates dont rate hardly any of our players and reckon North & the Tigers etc have better young mids than us.

I offer Trengove, Moloney, Jones, Gysberts, McKenzie as our best 5. They rate Cotchin, Martin, Delidio, and Co or Swallow, Harvey, Ziebell, etc much higher than our crop.

All believe that the tigers will taste success before us

Sorry DemonWA, I'm going to pull you up on this (or it may be your mates I'm pulling up). When you are comparing teams, DO NOT use "and company" or "etc". Name those players that fit in to this category. For me, that could mean Robin Nahas is being considered as part of a better midfield than ours. Does that make sense?

Richmond have very little depth outside Martin, Cotchin and Delidio. I wouldn't have Trengove behind Martin (he's not in front either), and Cotchin may be ahead of Grimes (if only we could see a full season from JG), Delidio I don't rate as high as some do, and believe that Moloney is a better player.

[The Chazz 4,077]

We have A-listers?

Sorry RP, I forgot to finish that first sentence of the post you quoted - was meant to say that Trengove, Moloney, Grimes and McKenzie should become our A-listers, then we need a few of the other players I mentioned to join them.

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

How is that? The 5 I mentioned are all stars - the aside I was making is that there doesn't seem to be a dynamic ball-winner in the mould of a Judd or an Ablett.

"Bartel, Sewell, Montagna, Corey, and Selwood are there but not an Ablett or a Judd..."

Comparing our midfield to those first five names.

Do you 'hope' they are the players our current crop will become?

Or are they 'there'?

Which one is it RP?