Recruiting for 2012 and beyond

[old dee 22,966]

Pick 2 won't get any decent mature player. Not even close. Every team will be trying to do the same.

We'll HAVE TO give Big, to get what we want.

Well that makes me more depressed.

Maybe I will start paying attention in January.

[Binmans PA 26,376]

Not sure about being skinny, Elton is pretty much the same size as Watts is now...

Watts: 196cm, 91kg

Elton: 197cm, 90kg

Whopper is actually closer to 95 kg now. But Elton sounds an interesting prospect. We're gonna have a stack load of big blokes in three to five years. Considering the last few drafts (particularly '10) and seemingly this one. I reckon we should be looking for midfielders and trade for a big bodied forward.

[bing181 8,208]

... and trade for a big bodied forward.

Or, cough cough, rookie one that's already in our backyard. Would get us through the next year or two until the likes of Watts, Cook, Fitzgerald and I don't know who else put on a few kgs.

I know it's not what we've been doing up until now, but new broom and all that.

[baysidedave 246]

Does anyone really think that Dyson Heppel would have half his reputation if he played for the Gold Coast?

wouldn't be surprised if Heppel is another Daniel Rich or Rhys Palmer, first year superstars then quickly come back to the pack.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

wouldn't be surprised if Heppel is another Daniel Rich or Rhys Palmer, first year superstars then quickly come back to the pack.

Where has Rich come back to the pack?

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pc-brisbane-lions--daniel-rich

Rhys Palmer had a knee reconstruction in his second year and has struggled since then.

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pc-fremantle-dockers--rhys-palmer

And btw he's probably a bit distracted this year, his last at Freo,

[rpfc 27,611]

Why not use this pick as bait to try and get an experienced player!

Surely we need some experience not more kids.

We need experience and big bodies.

But you don't pick players from the National Draft to fill that need.

Trades or Pre-Season Draft or, from next year, Free Agency are the mechanisms to get those bigger bodies.

Prendergast can be criticised for his picks in the National Draft but not for us having a dearth of bigger bodies and experience.

[drdrake 3,047]

To me our list looks nearly there, the only issue we have is our good footballers are 18-22yo. I'm all for adding to our midfield depth, I'm not so hung up on another tall forward I think our forward line has the ability to kick winning scores as long as we can get it inside 50m enough. With the sub rule to really need your ruckman to rest in the forward pocket and another year into Martin and Gawn they will cause headaches up forward.

On the midfield I don't believe we need to add the grunt inside midfielder I would like to see us get a couple of outside quick midfielders. Over the next couple of years you will have Trengove, McKenzie add in Tapscott, Gysberts, Jetta, Evans and hopefully Scully that will be your midfield clearance players. I look at our players capable of breaking lines we have Bennell, Bail, Nicholson and Blease, I think we should draft quick outside left footers.

Our clearance work is poor due due our predictable ruckman tapping to the same spot and our set ups around stoppages. We have nobody looking to create space for a team mate, we play like under 12s win the tap and all go for the footy instead of winning the tap protect the area, create space for someone to win an effective clearance.

[old55 21,523]

It's this part of the Wallace quote that grabbed my attention:

"As good as recruiters are, the system is still a lottery".

IOW, just because a recruiter misses out on insert-your-favourite-young-gun-here, it doesn't mean that they've done a bad job. There are too many variables. Because of that, even the best recruiters will "miss" players they could have taken at their choice - and by definition, select players that turn out to have been taken too high.

What I like about Prendergast's recruiting is the likes of Nicholson and Evans, Howe, Fitzpatrick and Gawn - all lower and rookie picks who look likely. IMHO, it's the players you take outside of the first 20 or 30 who give a better indication as to whether you've done your job or not.

Finally, the overall direction as to the kinds of players recruited is more at the behest of the FD. The recruiting department doesn't operate in isolation.

Draft history shows the hardest picks to get right are the picks in the late teens and 20s. Top 10s have become straightforward with the increased research and data and there a few mistakes. Later on in the draft I think recruiters are freer to take a chance on players who may have a defect because the stakes aren't so high. In those pick outside the top 10 I think there's a bit of conservatism sometimes and the results often aren't as good as later picks - for BP these picks are Blease, Strauss, Gysberts, Tapscott, Cook - you can look at CC's picks in this range Bate, Dunn, Grimes, Maric etc to see the problems. We're going to have another pick in this range this year and possibly more if Scully goes to GWS.

[old55 21,523]

Depending on results next week, our first pick in the 2011 draft will be in the range #13 to #17. Then picks around #33, #51 and #69.

Not a great position for any club to be hoping to trade for an 'established' and 'hard-bodied' forward or midfielder with long-term prospects.

Agree - if we want to trade for a quality experienced mid-fielder we're going to have to trade a good player at the top of their value in an area where we think we have an excess.

[H_T 2,941]

Agree - if we want to trade for a quality experienced mid-fielder we're going to have to trade a good player at the top of their value in an area where we think we have an excess.

Easier said than done. I'll break it down..:

1/ Top player (not many)

2/ Top of their value

3/ An area we think we have an excess of

We don't have a quality midfield full stop - so we don't necessarily have an excess there.

Forwards - Bate and Dunn come to mind - but they're not a top player, nor are they at the top of their game

Backs - We have an excess. And given the top two points and the basis of keeping Garland, Grimes, Blease, McDonald & Frawley, Bartram, that leaves Rivers*.

* This assessment goes against everything I've said about Rivers which is unfortunate for me.

How experienced would you need the quality midfielder to be ? And who would require someone like a Rivers ? Adelaide (The Crows have lost Bock to GCS and now Davis to GWS)? For an experienced mid...Scott Thompson ? I think you even mentioned him previously..

[Scipio 5,868]

Not sure if anything has been mentioned on Demonland recently, but could Grant Weeks of Golden Square in one of the country footy leagues be worth a look? 189 cms and 98 kilos, lacks a bit in height but has kicked something like 120 goals so far this season and booted 157 last year. There seems to be a lack of quality big forwards in the VFL at the moment, aside from obviously Fev, so it could be worth casting the net a bit wider.

[old55 21,523]

Easier said than done. I'll break it down..:

1/ Top player (not many)

2/ Top of their value

3/ An area we think we have an excess of

We don't have a quality midfield full stop - so we don't necessarily have an excess there.

Forwards - Bate and Dunn come to mind - but they're not a top player, nor are they at the top of their game

Backs - We have an excess. And given the top two points and the basis of keeping Garland, Grimes, Blease, McDonald & Frawley, Bartram, that leaves Rivers*.

* This assessment goes against everything I've said about Rivers which is unfortunate for me.

How experienced would you need the quality midfielder to be ? And who would require someone like a Rivers ? Adelaide (The Crows have lost Bock to GCS and now Davis to GWS)? For an experienced mid...Scott Thompson ? I think you even mentioned him previously..

Yes that's along the lines I'm thinking ...

Forwards - We've got an excess of medium forwards but as you say Bate and Dunn aren't going to cut it, maybe Petterd as E25 suggests in the other thread.

Backs - Rivers is a good player who has had a good season and we've got McDonald and Davis in the pipeline so that possibly represents excess.

Rucks - If we're prepared to punt that Fitzy will cvome through then Martin is a possibility - he's had a good season and has a potential high ceiling - he's versatile because he can go back but we've already discussed that we're covered there. He doesn't really provide a tall forward marking option.

You've got to give quality to get quality so Rivers, Martin and Petterd could be in the frame,

In terms of targets, yes I think Scott Thompson would be a very good option - it's dreamland to think we're going to trade for a 23-26 mid in their prime. Thompson is 28, playing great footy and has 3-4 years left. I noted in the other thread that Tarrant and Croad returned to their original clubs with a lot of success. Adelaide might be interested directly in Rivers with Bock and Davis going. A 3-way with Richmond and Martin may have appeal - they've got that 5yr end of 1st round Tambling compo pick and they want a ruckman.

Edited August 30, 2011 by old55

[H_T 2,941]

Yes that's along the lines I'm thinking ...

Forwards - We've got an excess of medium forwards but as you say Bate and Dunn aren't going to cut it, maybe Petterd as E25 suggests in the other thread.

Backs - Rivers is a good player who has had a good season and we've got McDonald and Davis in the pipeline so that possibly represents excess.

Rucks - If we're prepared to punt that Fitzy will cvome through then Martin is a possibility - he's had a good season and has a potential high ceiling - he's versatile because he can go back but we've already discussed that we're covered there. He doesn't really provide a tall forward marking option.

You've got to give quality to get quality so Rivers, Martin and Petterd could be in the frame,

In terms of targets, yes I think Scott Thompson would be a very good option - it's dreamland to think we're going to trade for a 23-26 mid in their prime. Thompson is 28, playing great footy and has 3-4 years left. I noted in the other thread that Tarrant and Croad returned to their original clubs with a lot of success. Adelaide might be interested directly in Rivers with Bock and Davis going. A 3-way with Richmond and Martin may have appeal - they've got that 5yr end of 1st round Tambling compo pick and they want a ruckman.

I didn't cover the rucks, but yes, Martin would be in the frame I'd imagine as a possibility. With Jamar established, Fitzpatrick as the one to step in and further develop his game, Spencer and Gawn (not in any particular order!) as back-ups and perhaps rookie a ruck in the rookie draft. We've also got R.Campbell there.

[dee-luded 2,958]

Or, cough cough, rookie one that's already in our backyard. Would get us through the next year or two until the likes of Watts, Cook, Fitzgerald and I don't know who else put on a few kgs.

I know it's not what we've been doing up until now, but new broom and all that.

The conservativeness @ MFC has them more worried about being embarassed of making a mistake, if your not making mistakes, your not trying hard enough.

Embarassment & losing face, is more important to MFC, than chancing a Grand Final Win.

[old55 21,523]

The conservativeness @ MFC has them more worried about being embarassed of making a mistake, if your not making mistakes, your not trying hard enough.

Embarassment & losing face, is more important to MFC, than chancing a Grand Final Win.

Total unsubstantiated [censored]

[The Great One 99 125]

On SEN today, KB and Dr Turf were discussing players from clubs that may not be at your club next year. Dr Turf who is a MFC supporter suggested Morton.

Wondering about what would we expect to get for Morton in a trade?

Hope this is ok in this thread.

[drdrake 3,047]

Unfortunately Morton will have little currency, we would struggle to get a second round pick for him which means the club will more than likely keep him with a two year contract. The next question is are the Morton brothers the greatest under acheivers in terms of brothers drafted at AFL level. Mitch and Cale enter into the AFL system with big wraps and delivered nothing.

Edited August 30, 2011 by drdrake

[daisycutter 28,661]

Unfortunately Morton will have little currency, we would struggle to get a second round pick for him which means the club will more than likely keep him with a two year contract. The next question is are the Morton brothers the greatest under acheivers in terms of brothers drafted at AFL level. Mitch and Cale enter into the AFL system with big wraps and delivered nothing.

a second round pick would be heaven sent. take it in a heartbeat

[rpfc 27,611]

The conservativeness @ MFC has them more worried about being embarassed of making a mistake, if your not making mistakes, your not trying hard enough.

The MFC must be trying very hard then...

Embarassment & losing face, is more important to MFC, than chancing a Grand Final Win.

Don't put that on us, or the club, just because you see it a completely different way to others.

Not getting Fevola means we are more concerned with PR than a flag is BS.

[Guest Gareth Keenan]

Total unsubstantiated [censored]

Couldn't agree more.

[MadAsHell 4,089]

I'm expecting Melbourne to use about 4 picks in the draft this year.

I'm thinking that Warnock, Maric & Morton who are all out of contract might be shown the door & or traded. And one of Bate or Dunn could find a new home via a trade also.

At the draft I'd like to see our first 2 picks used on kids. Preferably (as has been mentioned by another poster) an outside line breaking midfielder & a crumbing forward as they're 2 areas I think need addressing.

Then with our other picks in the draft I'd like us to go for a mature aged midfielder who can help with the clearances and possibly play a run with role. eg. Myles Sewell or Travis Tuck. And with the other pick as many of you know I'm a fan of Fevola to help fill the role of key position forward while Cook & Fitzpatrkc develop and to help take the pressure off Watts.

This way we're addressing areas we need to address without having to give away quality. I know some people have been against the idea of Sewell stating he isn't up to AFL level, however a lot of people had said the same of Barlow but Freo picked him up.

[H_T 2,941]

Yes that's along the lines I'm thinking ...

What do Port Adelaide need or what don't they have in excess ? Are they in the same boat as needing a ruck as Richmond ?

PS. I probably should add A.Davey as a possibility too, old55. Re: The midfielders.

[Guest Gareth Keenan]

Lobbe, Trengove and Stewart could form a capable ruck division in time.

I think even if we were up for it, Port wouldn't take Jamar for Butcher, due to his age.

[GRUN DEE 69]

If Scully goes; (I think he will)

- Our first pick and Morton too the Eagles for Andrew Gaff!

- One end of first round compensation picks too Adelaide for Rory Sloane!

- One end of first round compensation picks and one player from the list below too Port Adelaide for John Butcher!

- Davey too Essendon???

- Bate too GWS for a pick.

All of Morton, Davey, Maric, Bate, Warnock, Spencer up for trade. 3 way deals possible!

I would give up all our top draft picks for these 3!

[dee-luded 2,958]

Total unsubstantiated [censored]

Just got back in.

Ok. >

Check here > http://en.wikipedia....ub#Honour_board

I can see a Hard Assed Coach from Richmond needed to be brought IN to harden Up the cosy players of the famous MCG. If I'm correct, one of the things he was shaking his head at was they called themselves the Fuschias.

# He soon changed that name, & Attitude, to Demons!

A club that has the most sought after playground in the country where all the best want to play and the constant also rans, up until Percy Page, I think, was recruited from the Tigers,,, who promptly brought Checker to put the stiffeners through the MCG brigade.

*Success soon followed in bucketloads.

* Hughes finished in 1941 and 3 years of alsorans under Beames followed!

*Hughes returns for 4,,,, Success again,

* 'til 1948, then 3 Yrs of decline under Fontaine.

* Then another genuine hardman takes the reigns,,, Smith !!! no tails wagging dogs here.

*The Man, heir of Checker reigns Supreme,,, for 15 Long Years of Honour & Supremity.

### Then the MCC Sacked Smith !!! The beginning of the 'Politicaly Correct', Had had enough of the Hard Tongued Smith... he has to go... and did... to his End...

Check here > http://en.wikipedia....ub#Honour_board check & study the timelines. The MCC Never had success accept for fleeting episodes, they don't know how.. They had to Hire the talent IN. (The Hardness)

Political CorrectNess now Reigns Supreme for 45 longroom seasons !!!

### WHO is going to Crack this Mold ???.... Someone of the Hughes/Smith/Barasssi/???? linage.

It could be Viney/Lyon led repatriation, after a period of Healing from a great man.

.