Tom Scully

[biggestred 5,125]

if we got 2 first round draft picks id just leave them all for next year

[old55 23,687]

the thing that smells to me is that they have publically come out and said they have contracts on the table now? If Scully and his management were dinkum about holding out till the end of the season then they could have done any of the folloiwng things;

Not accepted any formal contact offers until the end of the year

Not told the press and created a media frenzy, so that they could continue to slide under the radar using the "end of the year" mantra

why bring it back into the public spotlight now unless there are agendas?

Well how about what the participants have said ...

1. Blucher said MFC tabled a formal offer.

2. Blucher said he went to GWS for a formal competing offer because he'd be negligent if he didn't.

3. GWS supplied a competing offer.

4. Tom said he doesn't need to know about it until the end of the year like he has always said - he's a man of his word and he has a strong will - e.g. never drinking alcohol. Tom and his management are smart - they realise that it's entirely possible that Tom will accept the GWS offer but that it's entirely untenable if he does that before the end of the season so they aren't looking at it until then.

5. Blucher confirmed he told Tim Harrington what the GWS offer is.

6. MFC told Mike Sheahan that 2 offers had come on the table because it supports what Tom has been saying all along.

7. Schwab confirmed this in his conversation with Schwarz and co. Tom is not lying - offers have just been tabled.

8. Sheahan went to Blucher and said I know that there's a formal offer from MFC and from GWS now - what have you got to say?

Return to point 1.

or alternatively they're all lying - Blucher, Scully, Schwab.

[bush demon 2,061]

This club is bigger than Tom Scully. If true, I find the suggestion that a 20 year old is assessing whether our club and its culture is 'good enough' for him to be quite patronising. I would expect/hope that all of our players are absolutely stoked to be playing in the red and the blue. Footy (and footy clubs) are not wholly a logical science - there's got to be some heart in it.

I'm concerned as to the effect this issue would be having on the rest of the player group. They're all Demons too, and some of them are currently much better players - and much more important to the future of this club - than number 31. Most of them appear to love the club too.

Hence, if we're talking two first round draft picks as compensation, I'm starting to feel more relaxed. I just don't hope we stuff up what has clearly been a very disciplined approach to list management over the last few years trying to compete with GWS over Tom Scully.

Our offering is good. But if it's not 'good enough', I say bring on two first rounders who will have a tear in the eye when they're presented with their very own red & blue guernseys. Sure everyone has different priorities - and good luck to Tom Scully if being a life long Demon is not one of his main priorities - but they're the types I reckon we should be recruiting as juniors.

I'm now going to trying and focus on this week's game against Port. This issue is doing my head in.

Hear! Hear! My thoughts exactly. If Tom Scully can't or won't spot up a target beyond 30 metres (a melbourne premiership) then give his number to a career demon, not a careerist. tom may well be a top bloke, but so too are the players who have committed to our club beyond this year's last pay cheque. as for gws, that is a mighty stab in the dark. sure, the afl are almost gifting them a premiership but corporate largesse only lasts in the good times.

[jayceebee31 761]

if we got 2 first round draft picks id just leave them all for next year

Fair point.

One thing we all want to take stock with:we have the following on our list all trying to be midfielders or flankers:

Bail,Bennell, Blease,Davey, Grimes, Gysberts, Jetta, Jones, Maric, McKenzie, Moloney, Morton, Petterd, Scully, Strauss, Sylvia, Tapscott, Trengove, and current rookies- Nicholson, Evans and the one whom starred in the midfield last weekend at Casey-McNamara.

So this gives us 21 players to cover-2 hbf's, 2 on the wings, 2 hff, a total of 6 positions.Therefore if Tom does go- we surely have the cattle to cover him.They may not be as good but could develop to be nearly as good.I personally think Grimes & Tapscott could turn out to being brilliant on ball players.Another is Nicholson.

[Mono 455]

Does anyone else think the numbers being bandied about are laughable?

GWS has at least 3 offers on the table:

Ward ($850k per yr for 5 yrs = $4.25m)

Scully ($1m per yr for 5 yrs = $5m)

Thomas ($1+ per yr for 5 yrs = $5m +, would have to be more than offered to Scully)

Total= $3m (per yr) for 3 players ($15m for 5 yrs)

These offers are on the table and presumably unconditional; so what are they going to pay the other 50? players if they all accept?

MFC has reportedly offered Scully $600k. Unless it is heavily conditional (Brownlow votes, B&F etc), this too is laughable for a 25 game player.

If the MFC offer is correct, they are negligent - the damage to the playing group/club is incalculable.

Ed: added totals for 5 yrs

Edited July 13, 2011 by Mono

[Guest The Tweed Pig]

Well how about what the participants have said ...

1. Blucher said MFC tabled a formal offer.

2. Blucher said he went to GWS for a formal competing offer because he'd be negligent if he didn't.

...

I'm not really sure why some supporters prefer to believe that Scully is lying. I'll take him at face value as I have no reason not to. And when it appears that just about anyone who has ever met him lauds his values it makes no sense not to. Those that think he's gone appear to do so on the basis that there's just so much smoke it's got to be true, as well as pointing to the players linked with the Gold Coast last year. You know, if they were right last year they must be right now. It doesn't matter that it's a different club and different players, it's the same circumstances and that's all that matters.

I spoke to someone today that is so infuriated with the media's handling of this issue that they want to ring up every station to vent their fury. The line trotted out by Bartlett, Harford and a host of others is that the opportunity is "too good to refuse". It's as though if he stays at Melbourne he'll be an effing pauper with his arse hanging out of his pants. Once the net difference is calculated between the offers, and bearing in mind that the only advantage GWS has is this particular contract, then there's quite reasonable arguments to mount why he'd stay. Scully will in all liklihood receive at least 3 more contracts after this one. When you analyse his career over 12-15 years there won't be a huge financial disparity between the clubs.

The only thing I didn't like about the Blutcher interview was that he twice mentioned that this is a "once in a lifetime opportunity". He also said he'd be disappointed if Tom didn't give the offer due consideration. I realise the last comment is merely stating what would be a reasonable approach, as well as due diligence, but it was said in such a fashion that I felt the player manager would like him to go. I may be wrong and it doesn't overly concern me if it's true, as Tom is very much his own man, but I suspect if we have to wait til year's end to get a decision it's very much because of the player manager and not so much Scully. Others may have a different interpretation.

But understand this. If you believe that an offer was put to Scully last October you're calling him a liar. I don't and I won't.

[rpfc 28,727]

Does anyone else think the numbers being bandied about are laughable?

GWS has at least 3 offers on the table:

Ward ($850k)

Scully ($1m)

Thomas ($1+, would have to be more than offered to Scully)

Total= $3m for 3 players

These offers are on the table and presumably unconditional; so what are they going to pay the other 50? players if they all accept?

MFC has reportedly offered Scully $600k. Unless it is heavily conditional (Brownlow votes, B&F etc), this too is laughable for a 25 game player.

If the MFC offer is correct, they are negligent - the damage to the playing group/club is incalculable.

I wouln't have thought so - you can frontload a $1m and have be $500k for the remainder.

I would say that Tom as 22, 23, and 24 year old would be worth $600k...

We had Cam Bruce on similar from 08-10.

And this is a false economy with GWS, crap happens. Martin is on quite a bit at the Tigers, but will soon be worth it I would say.

[Weedster 174]

Did anyone hear John Anderson's comment on 3AW this morning - something along the lines that the dees weren't out of it, and that it might come down to who is coaching next year - what did this mean ? Malthouse, Bailey, Clarkson ???

[nutbean 8,838]

Alright - I'll have a go at putting clarity for the parties at war.

I havent read anywhere where there are massive objections and bashing of people who fall into the camp of

1/ Believing he will stay

2/ Believing he will go

3/ No idea what so ever ( thats me !)

The angst has been caused because anyone who has suggested that he has signed heads of agreement, a contract or has verbally committed to go is calling Tom a liar and it is a reflection on his character.

The Ox by saying that TS received a contract offer last October is calling TS and his management liars

Mike Sheahan and Mark Stevens by stating that they believe their sources when they say that he is committed and going are calling TS/his management liars.

Anyone who suggests that he has already made a decision is calling TS/His management liars.

Simply put - if you believe he will go - wont be able to resist the bucks - well and good. But if you believe and take on board any of the statements by the Ox, Sheahan, Stevens and co regarding 98% gone, committed etc then thats also fine - but then you must accept that when you take that position you are basically saying the TS/his management have lied.

[loges 6,767]

It should also be noted that it is also a "once in a lifetime opportunity" to get 600K from MFC because at any other time in AFL history , at this stage of his career he is not worth that much money.

[nutbean 8,838]

It should also be noted that it is also a "once in a lifetime opportunity" to get 600K from MFC because at any other time in AFL history , at this stage of his career he is not worth that much money.

agree up to the point that if it is all about the "once in a lifetime opportunity" you would then have to consider and compare all the "once in lifetime opportunities" on the table.

[PaulRB 6,411]

Once in a life time opportunity to be a key player in a premiership team (or not). Given the money is absurdly high from both MFC and GWS, surely the prospects of the two teams to play in and win finals and a Grand final would be THE key question Tom would be asking himself..?

Edited July 13, 2011 by PaulRB

[nutbean 8,838]

Once in a life time opportunity to be a key player in a premiership team (or not). Given the money is absurdly high from both MFC and GWS, surely the prospects of the two teams to play in and win finals and a Grand final would be THE key question Tom would be asking himself..?

The key question you raised is the key question - it is weighing up financials vs the value you put on the non financials. I am hoping he sees that and stays

[Guest hangon007]

It is a massive decision, and whatever is in his mind, he has the right to think it through, surely?

Yeah - take all the time you want I say.

The MFC is a great place to be. It's Serenity.

Tad biased there? But I like it. Its definitely near serenity when we play games of football in a near empty stadium.

But don't tell me that there are not things to consider...

Who will coach the Dees in 2012? Who will lead the team?

These questions would stop any employee in their tracks. Heart or great heart.

Are you honestly saying he wants to wait and see who our next coach & captain is?

What if he is not happy with one of the decisions? What then? Dangerous path to walk down.

Have a look at how he plays - rather than speculate about what is in his head.

He plays like a bloke that loves the jumper and would do anything to move the club and team forward an inch.

You better believe it.

[GM11 782]

Alright - I'll have a go at putting clarity for the parties at war.

I havent read anywhere where there are massive objections and bashing of people who fall into the camp of

1/ Believing he will stay

2/ Believing he will go

3/ No idea what so ever ( thats me !)

The angst has been caused because anyone who has suggested that he has signed heads of agreement, a contract or has verbally committed to go is calling Tom a liar and it is a reflection on his character.

The Ox by saying that TS received a contract offer last October is calling TS and his management liars

Mike Sheahan and Mark Stevens by stating that they believe their sources when they say that he is committed and going are calling TS/his management liars.

Anyone who suggests that he has already made a decision is calling TS/His management liars.

Simply put - if you believe he will go - wont be able to resist the bucks - well and good. But if you believe and take on board any of the statements by the Ox, Sheahan, Stevens and co regarding 98% gone, committed etc then thats also fine - but then you must accept that when you take that position you are basically saying the TS/his management have lied.

And after 40 odd pages....... a common sense summary.

I'm also in the third category......(I think Tom Scully is too.)

[PaulRB 6,411]

Using GC, Carlton and MFC as guides Tom would be looking at

2012 - GWS @ 18th place, MFC @ 8th Place (finals)

2013 - GWS @ 14th Place, MFC @ 6th place (finals)

2014 - GWS @ 10th place, MFC @ 4th place (finals)

2015 - GWS @ 8th place, MFC @ 2nd place (GF appearance)

2016 - GWS @ 6th place - MFC @ 1st Place (GF appearance)

What is the extra value in $$ of playing in finals? Is it additional to the cap payments if the MFC wins a grand final? From the above you could argue that Tom would be playing an additional 10 finals games over the next 5 years at the MFC... how much is that worth?

Edited July 13, 2011 by PaulRB

[Mono 455]

..........

I would say that Tom as 22, 23, and 24 year old would be worth $600k...

Maybe, but not when he is 20 or 21. The $600k is the average over each of 5 yrs.

We had Cam Bruce on similar from 08-10.

Apparently. It too was on potential, which he never delivered (please, no new Bruce thread). Also, we had to get total player payments up to the minimum - there weren't too many others worthy of highish $s. We have plenty, potentially, now.

And this is a false economy with GWS, crap happens. Martin is on quite a bit at the Tigers, but will soon be worth it I would say.

No way Martin is on $3m over 5 yrs.

[Guest hangon007]

The key question you raised is the key question - it is weighing up financials vs the value you put on the non financials. I am hoping he sees that and stays

If he hadn't seen that he would have signed last October. Velocity Sports are not stupid, they want all parties to put their best offer on the table ... thats there job.

[Mono 455]

....................

Are you honestly saying he wants to wait and see who our next coach & captain is?

.................

Why else delay a decision then; he has the 2 offers now. (Unless of course he wants to talk to other clubs at years end? )

Edit:

Hypothetical: Thomas accepts GWS offer, but via a trade (rather than out of contract deal). The filth get pick 1 from GWS and have heaps of space in salary cap. They trade for Scully with pick 1. (MFC cannot say no.)

Just a thought.

Edited July 13, 2011 by Mono

[Guest hangon007]

Alright - I'll have a go at putting clarity for the parties at war.

I havent read anywhere where there are massive objections and bashing of people who fall into the camp of

1/ Believing he will stay

2/ Believing he will go

3/ No idea what so ever ( thats me !)

The angst has been caused because anyone who has suggested that he has signed heads of agreement, a contract or has verbally committed to go is calling Tom a liar and it is a reflection on his character.

The Ox by saying that TS received a contract offer last October is calling TS and his management liars

Mike Sheahan and Mark Stevens by stating that they believe their sources when they say that he is committed and going are calling TS/his management liars.

Anyone who suggests that he has already made a decision is calling TS/His management liars.

Simply put - if you believe he will go - wont be able to resist the bucks - well and good. But if you believe and take on board any of the statements by the Ox, Sheahan, Stevens and co regarding 98% gone, committed etc then thats also fine - but then you must accept that when you take that position you are basically saying the TS/his management have lied.

Whoever, is feeding certain names above the "inside info" could well go down in history as a genius. But we will never know.

[GawnWithTheWind 604]

No way Martin is on $3m over 5 yrs.

I thought he signed for something like 750 a year. Massive dollars. Could be very wrong though

[beelzebub 23,382]

cut your losses ??

Martin Blakes article is actually interesting reading.

I too would consider this a risky .." all eggs in one basket" type of scenario

Almost the proverbial ...bird in the hand worth two in the bush.!!! esp when we have no contril over whether that one-bird really stays or not.

All negotiations and bartering etc carry intrinsically limitations.

Some realistic perpsective must be maintained by the club.

[Viney12 196]

Maybe, but not when he is 20 or 21. The $600k is the average over each of 5 yrs.

Apparently. It too was on potential, which he never delivered (please, no new Bruce thread). Also, we had to get total player payments up to the minimum - there weren't too many others worthy of highish $s. We have plenty, potentially, now.

No way Martin is on $3m over 5 yrs.

Martin signed a 2 year extension on $400k per annum

[Guest hangon007]

Why else delay a decision then; he has the 2 offers now. (Unless of course he wants to talk to other clubs at years end? )

If either offer was exactly what Velocity Sports wanted they would be mad not to get him to sign .... but there job is to get the best offer ... why restrict yourself to dealing with two parties? But they may very well just want to restrict themselves.

Man has so few virtues ... he who speaks last often wins. But first you must get all the facts on the table, just to see how strong your competition is. Then you decide if you can beat them. You never enter a war that you cant win. You move on and live to fight another day.

[Jaded No More 68,972]

the thing that smells to me is that they have publically come out and said they have contracts on the table now? If Scully and his management were dinkum about holding out till the end of the season then they could have done any of the folloiwng things;

Not accepted any formal contact offers until the end of the year

Not told the press and created a media frenzy, so that they could continue to slide under the radar using the "end of the year" mantra

why bring it back into the public spotlight now unless there are agendas?

I think it's absolutely the opposite.

Tom wanted to wait, and fair enough, but Melbourne wanted to get things moving so they approached his management with a contract. That Tom chose to break his own rules and actually listen to our offer to me is a very good sign.

His manager then went out to seek an offer from GWS to get some sort of comparison happening. To me that is yet another indication that Tom was happy with the MFC offer, and that is the only reason his management felt the need to go to GWS and ask for a formal offer (otherwise Tom would have signed with Melbourne and his management would have been left red faced). If Tom wasn't interested in MFC at all, his management could have waited until season's end for an offer from GWS for Tom to sign.

I believe Tom and the club 100%. Why? because I choose to believe good over evil, and I know for a fact that Tom is NOT lying, has NEVER lied and will continue to be honest with the club.

I think it's valid for him to want to see how we play out the rest of the year and know who is going to coach the club (and I hear he likes Bailey, so there is no need to make links between Tom staying and Bailey going).

As has been said already, if he wants to stay and is happy at the club then he will. The financial gap is not so enormous that it cannot be bridged.

Edited July 13, 2011 by Jaded