Brereton, Dunstall target MFC culture

[Arrow 1,257]

The trouble is currently Moloney is the heart and soul of our club. He looks to be trying his ass off every week, and when the good players around him cop a good tag he puts up his hand and has 35 possession games to cover their loss. Sadly, when he cops a good tag like on Saturday no-one is willing to stand up and cover his loss.

Davey and Green aren't one effort players they're one direction players. When the ball goes forward they sprint but defensive running doesn't exist.

Grrr this gets frustrating.

[QueenC 74]

I would drop Brad Green to Casey next week....That might fix up a problem pretty quick.

Lets be honest, given your endless and apparent total disrepect for the man, you would run Brad Green over with your car .

[Sir Why You Little 37,307]

Agree WYL, we did. But we still had damn fine wins like against Hawks at Princes Park in 88. That's just one that stands out for me, in a mud heap and a great old fashioned game of footy.

We were out of our depth in 88 but it was the heart of our group that got us there. Could well argue though that we should have got one in 1990/91 and that would have stamped that period has a great time for the MFC. I guess that is the majority of the issue here, hey? That we didn't get the flag in those ensuing years.

Yes i was there at Princess Park in '88...Top Day. I loved the John Northey Tams Rajon, don't get me wrong, but even he did not completely rid the club of it's soft underbelly....He got mighty close, but this time i think it must be player driven.

Hey all the facilities are top class now...it is now the players on the ground who must do the bulk of the work.

[Sir Why You Little 37,307]

Lets be honest, given your endless and apparent total disrepect for the man, you would run Brad Green over with your car .

Not true. Brad is a good man, but his performance last saturday was woefull

when a captain is made a captain, he must lead, otherwise he loses respect very quickly.

Remember your school days...First day of school of the new year, you have a brand new teacher....Now if the students crack that teacher within the first 10 minutes of the class that teachers cred & respect is gone for the rest of the year....

[John Crow Batty 8,880]

As the saying goes..."when the going gets tough, the tough get going". On ALL evidence this year, we place like heroes when it is easy. As soon as it gets tough, we drop away. Culture? Attitude? Ability? - Dont know the reason, but hoping there is a solution. The Dees need to stop being Fuchias and start being Demons!

This variation is more applicable for us.

"When the going gets tough, its tough luck for us"

[Robbie57 2,026]

Being wrong Melbourne style or why the media is our best coach.

Remember the Road Runner and the wiley (not) coyote who only ever realised he was on the wrong path when he was 20 metres out over the canyon. At the moment Melbourne is like the Coyote unable to realise when it is wrong. Dean Bailey is the coyote saying we are building and doing the right things lets stay the path. Cam Swab is the coyote talking about premiership windows. Don’t get me wrong I think both have done a good job to date but now a different world view is needed. We need a culture of being elite and nothing but success will do and that has to start today not in a year or two in the "premiership window".

Being wrong is not easy and almost all of us on this site are wrong about one thing or another and any loss only confirms our deeply held and often wrong convictions about the coach or particular players.

Before the Adelaide game the media spent a whole week telling our team what was wrong with them, they couldn't fail to hear the message and they responded.

This week our players spent a whole week listening to how hard done by the MRP we were and how damaged by the injuries we were. They listened and learnt we were not going to win this week.

In that context was a massive mistake to appeal the Trengove decision. It distracted everyone and was never going to be successful (no doubt it was a terrible decision in the first place). We should have moved on.

Saturday was not a disaster, terrible yes. It deserves proper analysis and we should listen a bit more to those outside the club about where we are in relation to the cliff edge. Now I am not a football guru I am probably only fit to coach the little guys who run around at half time (nope I would be no good at that either). However we should listen to those in the media who can see without passion for our team what is wrong.

So what were the faults on Saturday?

Much as I hate to say it I think Dermie was right on the weekend when he said are second efforts are poor, they are not good enough. We absolutely lack intensity at the second effort and in the tackle. What stood out to me was Martin whilst being beaten in the ruck he was trying hard with his second efforts. He didn't have a good tap day but worked really hard at making up for it when the ball hit the ground. Not as good as the opposition but he didn't drop his bundle at any stage.

There was a lack of effort by Green and Davey at the level expected of players of their class. Green had 20 Disposals (SC 63pts and one more disposal than Sylvia) and wasn't at his best but in fairness not in the bottom 5. Davey some very poor disposals in his 22 ( Supercoach score of 9)7. (only one Dees player above 100) He is below where we would want and expect him to be. Jones got an injury in the first quarter and went on to get 27 disposals (sc 89), whilst beamer had a very bad day by his standards of 16 disposals. Wonna 11, Tapscott 13, Petterd 13, Jurrah 10 all failed on Saturday. What happened to our tackle count, it evaporated.

Dunn was a liability, have you noticed he is always late to a contest. A few weeks ago he gave away a lot of head high frees and on the weekend he did it again. 8 disposals well below par.

Our problem is not depth or injuries its application.

Old fashion graft. We can do it one week and not the next. I don’t mind losing with our depleted squad if the application from every player is the best they can do. At the moment they don't but don’t believe me just listen to those who see it as it is. What's even more annoying is when our players do apply themselves we are competitive.

So the big question is why do we have to rely on external critique to get this message across, thats is the coaching staff's challenge.

Imagine if the media were just saying "i like what I see at the Dees".

[Cheesy D. Pun 1,765]

I've been hammered from pillar to post here which may be fair enough but bear with me, if you will.

If our 'culture' is bad and always has been....then who is it that nurtures this culture?? If this concept of culture is real and not some intangible nothingness then surely someone can tell me who has remained @MFC that feeds this culture??

If you replaced every single person in the club tomorrow, would the culture be gone?

[Sir Why You Little 37,307]

I've been hammered from pillar to post here which may be fair enough but bear with me, if you will.

If our 'culture' is bad and always has been....then who is it that nurtures this culture?? If this concept of culture is real and not some intangible nothingness then surely someone can tell me who has remained @MFC that feeds this culture??

If you replaced every single person in the club tomorrow, would the culture be gone?

That would depend a lot on who became the leaders out of all those new people?

Leaders always set the example...Family, Business or sport.

[jackaub 1,402]

These are 2 guys with a vested interest in our failure. They clearly know that if we keep doing what we're doing and stick to our guns we'll be a dominant side over the next few years. We've finally got on an even playing field with the other clubs in regards to facilities etc., the last thing we want to be doing is letting the Hawthorn Football Club make our decisions. We have a good playing group, good coaching group and our 'culture' is fine. Come on Dees!!

You must be joking

You obviously wern't at the game yesterday and watched the pathetic performance thatI sat through the whole afetr noon. I was embarassed and ashamed at what was dished up. Our culture is obviously not fine!

On my rough count there were fewer that 5000 demon fans there! Thats in itself says a lot!

[jackaub 1,402]

Being wrong Melbourne style or why the media is our best coach.

Remember the Road Runner and the wiley (not) coyote who only ever realised he was on the wrong path when he was 20 metres out over the canyon. At the moment Melbourne is like the Coyote unable to realise when it is wrong. Dean Bailey is the coyote saying we are building and doing the right things lets stay the path. Cam Swab is the coyote talking about premiership windows. Don’t get me wrong I think both have done a good job to date but now a different world view is needed. We need a culture of being elite and nothing but success will do and that has to start today not in a year or two in the "premiership window".

Being wrong is not easy and almost all of us on this site are wrong about one thing or another and any loss only confirms our deeply held and often wrong convictions about the coach or particular players.

Before the Adelaide game the media spent a whole week telling our team what was wrong with them, they couldn't fail to hear the message and they responded.

This week our players spent a whole week listening to how hard done by the MRP we were and how damaged by the injuries we were. They listened and learnt we were not going to win this week.

In that context was a massive mistake to appeal the Trengove decision. It distracted everyone and was never going to be successful (no doubt it was a terrible decision in the first place). We should have moved on.

Saturday was not a disaster, terrible yes. It deserves proper analysis and we should listen a bit more to those outside the club about where we are in relation to the cliff edge. Now I am not a football guru I am probably only fit to coach the little guys who run around at half time (nope I would be no good at that either). However we should listen to those in the media who can see without passion for our team what is wrong.

So what were the faults on Saturday?

Much as I hate to say it I think Dermie was right on the weekend when he said are second efforts are poor, they are not good enough. We absolutely lack intensity at the second effort and in the tackle. What stood out to me was Martin whilst being beaten in the ruck he was trying hard with his second efforts. He didn't have a good tap day but worked really hard at making up for it when the ball hit the ground. Not as good as the opposition but he didn't drop his bundle at any stage.

There was a lack of effort by Green and Davey at the level expected of players of their class. Green had 20 Disposals (SC 63pts and one more disposal than Sylvia) and wasn't at his best but in fairness not in the bottom 5. Davey some very poor disposals in his 22 ( Supercoach score of 9)7. (only one Dees player above 100) He is below where we would want and expect him to be. Jones got an injury in the first quarter and went on to get 27 disposals (sc 89), whilst beamer had a very bad day by his standards of 16 disposals. Wonna 11, Tapscott 13, Petterd 13, Jurrah 10 all failed on Saturday. What happened to our tackle count, it evaporated.

Dunn was a liability, have you noticed he is always late to a contest. A few weeks ago he gave away a lot of head high frees and on the weekend he did it again. 8 disposals well below par.

Our problem is not depth or injuries its application.

Old fashion graft. We can do it one week and not the next. I don’t mind losing with our depleted squad if the application from every player is the best they can do. At the moment they don't but don’t believe me just listen to those who see it as it is. What's even more annoying is when our players do apply themselves we are competitive.

So the big question is why do we have to rely on external critique to get this message across, thats is the coaching staff's challenge.

Imagine if the media were just saying "i like what I see at the Dees".

I agree completely!the media have given us a great ride and have supported the club and its future with out question.

I believe we have wasted much of that good will through performances like Saturday.

God help the club when the media begins th pick at then attack the carcass.Not just Bailey will be in the sights

[John Crow Batty 8,880]

Why should the culture change when overrated players have been paid big bucks for doing not much for over a decade. Theres been a passing parade of them like White, Yze, Robertson, Neitz, Bruce, Johnstone, etc and now Davey, Rivers and Green. The tradition continues.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

Why should the culture change when overrated players have been paid big bucks for doing not much for over a decade. Theres been a passing parade of them like White, Yze, Robertson, Neitz, Bruce, Johnstone, etc and now Davey, Rivers and Green. The tradition continues.

true

the other similarity is that everyone used to love saying that once that soft group was out of the way, the next generation would be hard, consistent performers lead by Brock McLean. Looks like we've come full circle

[Cheesy D. Pun 1,765]

That would depend a lot on who became the leaders out of all those new people?

Leaders always set the example...Family, Business or sport.

Yep, that'd be Jim. Exactly the answer I was looking for. Now I know where y'all coming from.

[Sir Why You Little 37,307]

Yep, that'd be Jim. Exactly the answer I was looking for. Now I know where y'all coming from.

We need many more leaders under our roof apart from Jim Stynes.

Don't think Jimma is going to do it all.

Leaders need to be at every level, that is what we have lacked.

[old dee 24,001]

The article is Spot on for mine, it has been a problem at Melbourne for a long time.

I believe it will be difficult to change, DB has had 3+ years and a large change of personel

and achieved no culture change.

Given the injuries we now have I struggle

to see us winning more than 5-6 games this year.

That being the case DB is gone so what for 2012.

I doubt that an untried coach could achieve a culture change it needs a older successful Coach

who has the steel to force it through.

It seems to me that there are only two people who could produce the required change at present.

Both may be doubtful starters as coaches but IMO they are Malthouse and Matthews.

Malthouse will be hard to get, if he wants to leave there will be a bidding war as there will be a number of spots available next year.

Matthews has shown no sign of wanting to return to coaching but he has the steely determination to get the job done.

Neither of them would be cheap but you get what you pay for, both are multi GF winners at different clubs.

We should do whatever it takes to get Matthews IMO he is the guy for the job.

[Sir Why You Little 37,307]

The article is Spot on for mine, it has been a problem at Melbourne for a long time.

I believe it will be difficult to change, DB has had 3+ years and a large change of personel

and achieved no culture change.

Given the injuries we now have I struggle

to see us winning more than 5-6 games this year.

That being the case DB is gone so what for 2012.

I doubt that an untried coach could achieve a culture change it needs a older successful Coach

who has the steel to force it through.

It seems to me that there are only two people who could produce the required change at present.

Both may be doubtful starters as coaches but IMO they are Malthouse and Matthews.

Malthouse will be hard to get, if he wants to leave there will be a bidding war as there will be a number of spots available next year.

Matthews has shown no sign of wanting to return to coaching but he has the steely determination to get the job done.

Neither of them would be cheap but you get what you pay for, both are multi GF winners at different clubs.

We should do whatever it takes to get Matthews IMO he is the guy for the job.

Matthews is too old to take on full time coaching....he is happy in the media.

Hawthorn is the only club he would remotely consider returning too.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Hawthorn is the only club he would remotely consider returning too.

About as likely as Lyon coaching MFC.

Matthews was a successful coach with a great record. But like another great coach, Barassi, he had a use by date. Its past.

[Rod Grinter Riot Squad 5,654]

These are 2 guys with a vested interest in our failure. They clearly know that if we keep doing what we're doing and stick to our guns we'll be a dominant side over the next few years. We've finally got on an even playing field with the other clubs in regards to facilities etc., the last thing we want to be doing is letting the Hawthorn Football Club make our decisions. We have a good playing group, good coaching group and our 'culture' is fine. Come on Dees!!

Post of the year, thanks for the laugh

[Sir Why You Little 37,307]

About as likely as Lyon coaching MFC.

Matthews was a successful coach with a great record. But like another great coach, Barassi, he had a use by date. Its past.

Thanks for agreeing with me Rhino...

[Nasher 33,617]

So a 70 point turnaround is about culture?

Look, I'm not down at the club on a daily basis to see first hand what the culture is like - but I'd assume that, in a professional atmosphere, most clubs are doing the same things relevant to available resources. I'm just not sold on there being some airy, fairy thing called culture hanging in the rafters stopping us from performing. If you are right then it starts at the top, guys like Jim Stynes are responsible for this. Simply not convinced.

You've taken a battering here but I'm in your corner. I'm not saying there's nothing wrong at all, I always just feel the "culture" thing is a massive copout from people who don't want to devote the time looking for the real issues. Much easier just to go "we suck, it must be the culture" and take it no further. No different to "sack the coach" after every loss.

[old dee 24,001]

Matthews is too old to take on full time coaching....he is happy in the media.

Hawthorn is the only club he would remotely consider returning too.

Then we are doomed to more of the same in 2012.

Just a question "how do you know"?

[Sir Why You Little 37,307]

Then we are doomed to more of the same in 2012.

Just a question "how do you know"?

I can tell by his persona on the idiot box....he is a happy man as far as football goes, ch 7 pay him well to say about 50 words a week.

Why would he want to work 120 hours a week again?

[old dee 24,001]

You've taken a battering here but I'm in your corner. I'm not saying there's nothing wrong at all, I always just feel the "culture" thing is a massive copout from people who don't want to devote the time looking for the real issues. Much easier just to go "we suck, it must be the culture" and take it no further. No different to "sack the coach" after every loss.

So Nasher do we just over rate our players?

Are we only a bottom 6 side after all?

may be JC could not get us higher!

[old dee 24,001]

I can tell by his persona on the idiot box....he is a happy man as far as football goes, ch 7 pay him well to say about 50 words a week.

Why would he want to work 120 hours a week again?

Some guys live for the rush

Has anyone asked him re the Dees in 2012?

if he is not available what do you propose?

Please do not say Roos he has said a number of times he is not coaching an AFL team in the next couple of years.

Look forward to your thoughts.

[Sir Why You Little 37,307]

You've taken a battering here but I'm in your corner. I'm not saying there's nothing wrong at all, I always just feel the "culture" thing is a massive copout from people who don't want to devote the time looking for the real issues. Much easier just to go "we suck, it must be the culture" and take it no further. No different to "sack the coach" after every loss.

Walk into Hawthorn Footy Club or Carlton...i did it back in the 70's & 80's then go inside the MFC...You do feel a big difference.

They Expect.