I'd rather Watts in than Bate who has been as poor, but just over 5 more years

If my memory serves me correctly, Steamin' was the one who broke the news that Watts would debut against the Pies on QB.

I guess he's probably right on this one. Doesn't really make sense to me but ah well...

Good memory Battler..

Where has this idea that Watts has been poor precipitated from..?

His form was dreadful against Essendon.

The football dept has been pumping games into this kid wether he deserved them or not. I'll be surprised if he doesn't make the round 1 team. And there would be an article about it. The herald sun posts an article everytime a player farts, so this would be big news. In fact Jay Clark is probably reading this right now and is forming a draft!

If my memory serves me correctly, Steamin' was the one who broke the news that Watts would debut against the Pies on QB.

I guess he's probably right on this one. Doesn't really make sense to me but ah well...

Your right Battler, The same person that told me about QB told me if form doesn't improve he will more than likely miss the season opener. I'm not trying to be a news breaker here I'm passing on some information I received to fellow Demonlanders.

BTW Keyser is it lonely up there on your pedestal ?

I have no doubt Watts will play round 1 against the swans.....There is no chance he will miss...

Ugh. Really?? Is this honestly what you think?

And I'm not sure it's possible to be dropped for the first round.

Left out of the side maybe.

In any case, I doubt there'd be any headlines...

Na- only saying that if he got dropped- and I absoluely don't think he has been told that.. that would be most probably our line up. Watts will play and as Rogue highlighted -What if he kicks 6 tomorrow night- wedon't play him, but he really has to pull up his socks.

I'd rather Watts in than Bate who has been as poor, but just over 5 more years

That is revisionist rubbish.

Bate has had two top 4 finishes in the Bluey.

But because he had a poor 2010 he gets less credit than Dunn who has played half a decent season in his career.

Fans with short memories...

That is revisionist rubbish.

Bate has had two top 4 finishes in the Bluey.

But because he had a poor 2010 he gets less credit than Dunn who has played half a decent season in his career.

Fans with short memories...

no doubt bate has played well in past seasons, but dunn chases, tackles, has a bit of size and adds a bit of grunt to our forwardline, that without him we lack. he is one of our most intimidating presences on the field, and especially in our forward 50, and is able to get in the face of the opponents, and annoy them, which is an important role.

Bate has attributes that make him a good player in a poor team, but he will struggle to find a spot in the squad this season, if we are playing good football, i think, i personally do not like him as i think that he does not use his speed enough to chase or pressure opponents, and will only sprint if he thinks he will be able to get a goal out of it

This would be be a massive wake up call for Watts if its true. We all bang on about him needing time and thats true, but maybe this shows that the Footy department are expecting a little more output even at this stage. Now that we are aiming for finals you cant be giving one player preference over others if form doesnt warrant selection, which it probably doesnt.

However if he doesnt play then surely Bate doesnt play either. Thats the only condition i will accept this.

Your right Battler, The same person that told me about QB told me if form doesn't improve he will more than likely miss the season opener. I'm not trying to be a news breaker here I'm passing on some information I received to fellow Demonlanders.

BTW Keyser is it lonely up there on your pedestal ?

Doesn't that go for most players under the new regime, no doubt he has been told that.

We are treading a fine line between performance expectations and developing a premiership team in a couple of seasons.

He will not be the only one who is in this position, Bate must be there as well.

Where has this idea that Watts has been poor precipitated from..?

He hasn't played like Riewoldt or Brown yet.

Pretty simple really.

Seriously, though, it does seem as though his form against Essendon was pretty poor.

That is revisionist rubbish.

Bate has had two top 4 finishes in the Bluey.

But because he had a poor 2010 he gets less credit than Dunn who has played half a decent season in his career.

Fans with short memories...

Fair call, but honestly, would you pick Bate over Dunn? Or even say that, right now, Bate is a better player than Dunn?

I wouldn't. Dunn is better. Right now, that is.

Fair call, but honestly, would you pick Bate over Dunn? Or even say that, right now, Bate is a better player than Dunn?

I wouldn't. Dunn is better. Right now, that is.

They are on the same level in my eyes. They play slightly differently but they both have pressure on them to perform in similar roles.

I cannot fathom the love for Dunn after his exceedingly sub-par career up to half way through 2010. He then plays a decent role as a negative forward player who kicks a couple goals and suddenly he is given more leeway from some easily satisfied fans (maybe that is unfair and that we are simply comparing his decent form of 2010 to his awful form of the rest of his career...).

That is revisionist rubbish.

Bate has had two top 4 finishes in the Bluey.

But because he had a poor 2010 he gets less credit than Dunn who has played half a decent season in his career.

Fans with short memories...

And this is rubbish coming from someone who is living in the past?

Have a look at what kind of a team we were when he had those two top 4 finishes rpfc.

Recent form suggests Dunn is ahead of Bate. Nothing wrong with supporters rating Dunn ahead of Bate.

It's a progressive game.

Bate is too one dimensional for 2011 AFL football.

Would have been better suited to the late 80's - 90's.

And this is rubbish coming from someone who is living in the past?

Have a look at what kind of a team we were when he had those two top 4 finishes rpfc.

Recent form suggests Dunn is ahead of Bate. Nothing wrong with supporters rating Dunn ahead of Bate.

It's a progressive game.

Bate is too one dimensional for 2011 AFL football.

Would have been better suited to the late 80's - 90's.

Please. Top 4 finishes in the Bluey in any year is an achievement.

Recent form is just that. And it's from months ago - we'll see.

And I have not said that Bate is an automatic starter, what I have said is that Dunn has as much work to do as Bate.

Bate is attempting to recapture something, Dunn is attempting to get to a level he has never seen before.

Good luck to both of them, they're gonna need it.

He hasn't played like Riewoldt or Brown yet.

Pretty simple really.

Seriously, though, it does seem as though his form against Essendon was pretty poor.

Fair call, but honestly, would you pick Bate over Dunn? Or even say that, right now, Bate is a better player than Dunn?

I wouldn't. Dunn is better. Right now, that is.

Agreed mate. On current form Dunn would be ahead of Bate, however Bate is nowhere near as bad as people make him out to be. He has decent size, can take a strong mark, and IMO is one of our most accurate for goal. What let's him down however is his moverability and awkward turning circle.let's not forget his early form he showed and write him off just yet. But in saying that it will be interesting to see what the FD has instore for him this year in terms of team structure and his place in the side.

I've always been a fan of Dunn having seen him play with Vic Metro, and this kid has talent. Yes, it has taken him several years to produce as a player but the best is yet to come. But in terms of his role in the team I don't ever see him fullfilling some peoples idea that he'll be a key forward. His size, speed and agility/movability mean he'll be far more dMaging as a floating flanker who can pinch hit.

If people actually watched Watts they would see how much work he does. He does 3 or 4 leads for pretty much every fwd thrust. He either gets ignored or the delivery is poor.

Every player is on notice regarding improvement and I take this thread as that. I'd be hugely surprised if he is not there in rd 1.

And this is rubbish coming from someone who is living in the past?

Have a look at what kind of a team we were when he had those two top 4 finishes rpfc.

Recent form suggests Dunn is ahead of Bate. Nothing wrong with supporters rating Dunn ahead of Bate.

It's a progressive game.

Bate is too one dimensional for 2011 AFL football.

Would have been better suited to the late 80's - 90's.

Spot On!

I've always felt that Dunn plays best as a forward target and struggles further up the ground where he has no outstanding attributes. Bate IMO has actually played his best footy as a high half forward/wing where his massive boot gives us an attacking weapon into the F50 but he struggles as a key forward target. Now that our forward line is starting to take shape and we have several targets up there, I'd like to see Bate played a bit higher up the ground again in a Ryan O'Keefe kind of role before I write him off.

On Watts, I missed the Essendon game but thought that he looked ok in the Adelaide matches and he kicked a couple on the weekend. In fact, aside from Maric I'd be interested to know which of our forwards have kicked more goals than Watts in pre-season? Or how he stacks up on goals per game averages. Anyone have the info? I don't doubt the validity of the source but I'd be a little disappointed if Watts doesn't run out round 1.

No way and when you deeply think about it- his form overall has been poor.

Forward line of :

Green Dunn Bate

Davey Jurrah Petterd

maybe their thinking.

As stated, if he does get dropped- gee that would make headlines.

We do want wins this Year,, and we Do need to get off to a strong start, to setup the momentum. So I can see something like this making sense.

Happy to give him time. I dont see why he should be a lock for round 1 though? Just because he was a number 1 pick? If we could have that draft over again Id take Hurley In a second. We'll see how It pans out!

I've always felt that Dunn plays best as a forward target and struggles further up the ground where he has no outstanding attributes. Bate IMO has actually played his best footy as a high half forward/wing where his massive boot gives us an attacking weapon into the F50 but he struggles as a key forward target. Now that our forward line is starting to take shape and we have several targets up there, I'd like to see Bate played a bit higher up the ground again in a Ryan O'Keefe kind of role before I write him off.

On Watts, I missed the Essendon game but thought that he looked ok in the Adelaide matches and he kicked a couple on the weekend. In fact, aside from Maric I'd be interested to know which of our forwards have kicked more goals than Watts in pre-season? Or how he stacks up on goals per game averages. Anyone have the info? I don't doubt the validity of the source but I'd be a little disappointed if Watts doesn't run out round 1.

If he were to put in another game like Essendon he might be a chance to miss out.

But we have carried him through some poor games up till now so why would we stop now.

It is more likely after round one IMO.

A loss to the swans and a poor one from Watts would be the receipe for a game at Casey.

I highly doubt the round one team has been decided.

If the statement is that Watts will not be selected if his form is not good enough over the next two weeks, that sound fair, and I would expect the same statment to be made about every player.

There is no way in hell Watts deserves to be in our 22 based on what he has produced thus far in his career. Absolutely no chance. The last 2 weeks he was awful, enbarassing even. However, we are investing in him so it's important he stays in the side and that's just the way it is. He had better start proudicing something soon though. As for Bate, I have had a gutfull of him, he's had his chance and come up short IMO

In the 5 games i have seen thus far this year (the intra club game, Adelaide etc, Essendon and Brisbane) the thing that had stood out for me in regard to Watts has been his lack of intensity at the ball and/or man. I would not be surprised if the footy department have given him a rocket and told him he needs to fire up and perhaps this is the issue they have, not his form as such (though he only had 4 possessions against Brisbane).

His size (ie still to fully bulk up) is no excuse for not being fierce at the ball. In the game against Brisbane Scully, who is still remarkably slight, went full throttle at a contest (at the half backline)and hip and shouldered a far bigger opponent. The ball jarred free and was taken into our forward line for a goal. One of ther only highlights of the day and all because of one (little) fellas desire for the ball.

This is what Watts needs to bring to his game and if he can't/won't he will struggle in AFL, little lone become the champion we are yearning for

In the 4 games i have seen thus far this year (the intra club game, Adelaide etc and Brisbane) the thing that had stood out for me in regard to Watts has been his lack of intensity at the ball and/or man. I would not be surprised if the footy department have given him a rocket and told him he needs to fire up and perhaps this is the issue they have, not his form as such.

His size (ie still to fully bulk up) is no excuse for not being fierce at the ball. In the game against Brisbane Scully, who is still remarkably slight, went full throttle at a contest (at the half backline)and hip and shouldered a far bigger opponent. The ball jarred free and was taken into our forward line for a goal. One of ther only highlights of the day and all because of one (little) fellas desire for the ball.

This is Watts needs to bring to his game and if he can't/won't he will struggle in AFL, little lone become the champion we are yearning for

correct

at the moment in a pack situation he doesn't throw himself into it and actually try and mark the bloody thing, he is content with being seen jumping near it.. this along with Stefan Martin's almost-comical sense of timing and total lack of footy smarts, and Bate's general shoddiness was the reason we looked so bloody awful last week. I pray this isn't the be all and end all of our 2011 forward line because it will not produce many goals that's for sure