Those Jumper's are PINKER than ever!

[Bay Riffin 1,493]

Doesn't matter what those who don't care about it say, it's not red, and that's disappointing, regardless of whether you think it's an issue or not. Even more so given that Cam and the team spent seemingly over a year working on developing a new jumper that was supposed to be red.

The argument that colour combinations and/or synthetic materials affect the outcome of certain colours is probably quite valid, but our blue ought to be quite dark, and Essendon's red, up against their black, is quite clearly red, and not pink. I would have thought that we could aim for that kind of red which, provided we get our blue nice and dark, wouldn't come out pink.

I agree with your thoughts. I expect that given the task of jumper design, over the best part of a year, to get the colours right !! Especially when the jumper is everything in this game.

It looks as though we were obviously happy when we tested the colours to the naked eye, but did not test it using cameras to see how it looks. I hope we don't have to pay for that stuff up through our memberships, as I would be disappointed.

[deefuture 1]

I had a look at the new jumpers at the demon shop.

The red looks washed out and the premiership stars looked

orange. I hope these were the reject jumpers!

The colours seem poles away from the blood red and blue that is almost black that

schwabb is wanting.

I suggested to the girl there, that there should be a navy blue v neck longsleeve

knitted jumper with the new emblem embroidered on it for those of us that

feel they are too old to wear a guernsey. She said some people had asked about this.

[Keyser Söze 0]

They are the faulty jumpers.

New "correct" jumpers wont be available until March earliest.

[damon the demon 57]

They are the faulty jumpers.

New "correct" jumpers wont be available until March earliest.

is that for the public or the players? are we going to see pink in the NAB cup?

[Keyser Söze 0]

The public. No idea about the players.

But he was specifically talking about the jumpers in the demon shop.

[Jaded No More 68,975]

They are the faulty jumpers.

New "correct" jumpers wont be available until March earliest.

I'd be very surprised if we got the new delivery in March.

It's Chinese New Year so factories are closed for a month. Even assuming that they finished bulk production pre CNY you're still looking at a 4 week turnaround for sea freight, including customs clearance and delivery to stores. Unless NB are paying for the goods to be airfreighted (or paying air-sea difference), it would require a massive effort for those jumpers to get here before the start of the season.

It's unfortunate but that's life. Garment manufacturing, especially with hi-tech fabrics, is not always very straightforward.

[beelzebub 23,390]

If NB have stuffed up then they probably are contractually obligated to have correct jumpers by whatever date. If that means some bloke gets on a plane with empty suitcases then that's what they have to

Do. The club should accept nothing less than correct and on time.

[Robbie57 2,026]

Pink! See Dunn interview

Yep check out this interview very Pink on my screen.

[DeezMan 4]

Pink! See Dunn interview

Yep check out this interview very Pink on my screen.

"Pink" is going a bit far I feel... however the red is not nearly dark enough though.

Looking forward to the "real" jumpers coming out soon enough. Let's just pray no more stuff-ups are had.

Btw... Dunny a daddy?? Wow, I thought it was a bit of a gag when I first heard of it!!

Congrats Lynden!

[Keyser Söze 0]

Need to be darker?

The problem is that they are too dark.

[Juicebox 629]

http://www.aflphotos.com.au/galleries/results/?photostore=afl.com.au&q=collection:AFL%202011%20Media%20-%20Melboune%20Team%20Photo%20Day

Don't look too bad in these pics.

How is it a problem that they are too dark? I mean that outta general curiosity.

[beelzebub 23,390]

My understanding is that the jumpers are now supposed to be a deep blood red. The jumpers are nothig like a blood red. Fail. Correct it NB..simple.

Compare to socks..different. I realise diferent materials present in diferent ways.. different refraction etc. So you tweak and correct for this.

They are simpy wrong at present. Red is red.. They are presently a crimson-pink...ironically pretty much a fuscia !!

The colour specced by Melb will be given as a Pantone number. Just like in printing you correct for different media.

I dont see Essendon having a problem with red..I dont see St kilda having a problem with red.. ( seeing red.... maybe !! ) Sydney seems ok... It cant be that bloody hard.!!

Keep chucking them back til they get it right...or quite plainly p!ss them off and we'll get some outfit who know what they're doing.

[Keyser Söze 0]

http://www.aflphotos.com.au/galleries/results/?photostore=afl.com.au&q=collection:AFL%202011%20Media%20-%20Melboune%20Team%20Photo%20Day

Don't look too bad in these pics.

How is it a problem that they are too dark? I mean that outta general curiosity.

The "red" is too dark, making it appear crimson.

It's all to do with colour composition.

The problem is when people say it needs to be "darker" when they mean something like "brighter" or "more intense" or it needs more yellow.

[Nasher 33,617]

The "red" is too dark, making it appear crimson.

It's all to do with colour composition.

The problem is when people say it needs to be "darker" when they mean something like "brighter" or "more intense" or it needs more yellow.

That is completely at odds with what others are saying though. The complaint is that they're pink. If you make pink brighter or lighter you've got "more pink" - the logical conclusion is that they need to be darker. Your claim is the opposite, so clearly you're going to arrive at the opposite conclusion.

[i'm just saying what other people are saying to illustrate the difference in opinion - I don't know who's right and hold no opinion on this topic at all as I haven't seen the jumpers first hand.]

[Keyser Söze 0]

It appears more crimson, then the medium makes it appear pink to some, depending on the lighting.

I think it has too much black in it and needs more yellow.

Beyond that, you'd need to change the material used.

Like I said, in general, people don't seem to understand.

In their heads it's all very easy, but in reality that is far from the case.

And it's hard to please people when they don't really know what they want.

[daisycutter 29,892]

The "red" is too dark, making it appear crimson.

It's all to do with colour composition.

The problem is when people say it needs to be "darker" when they mean something like "brighter" or "more intense" or it needs more yellow.

Well, I just looked at the pics for the tenth time. My conclusions

a. Socks look "right" red

b. Jumpers not same red as socks

c. Jumpers look "lighter" red not "darker" red. i.e. they look a touch pink

d. The red in the jumpers is not fucshia (see wiki fuschia)

e. The red is nowhere near as "pink" as the breast cancer version

as a disclaimer, my eyesight is not what it once was, but jumpers/socks definately not same red. YMMV

[beelzebub 23,390]

The jumpers are a pinkish crimson. That's a different colour base to red. Making it darker or otherwise still makes it a pinkish crimson just a darker one!! Bit like turquoise and aqua .Two different colours if similar.

NB have simply got it wrong and considering where they're made that's kind of funny for surely the Chinese know what f%#ing Red is !!!!

If still not convinced play in Photoshop or similar and toy with a colour pallete and see just how close ( or not) pink actually is to RED. Not nearly as close as some might think. Red is a primary colour. It's pure. Differing hues are achieved with tints etc. Pink actually has some blue in it. Now we do want red and blue on the jumpers ....just as Seperate colours... Not mixed !!

Again, it shouldn't be that hard... Someones simply f'd up !! So fix it.

[Jaded No More 68,975]

Again, it shouldn't be that hard... Someones simply f'd up !! So fix it.

You have clearly never been involved with hi tech garment production if you have that attitude.

I doubt anyone at Melbourne or at NB are sitting on their hands hoping the issue gets fixed on it's own. But it's a lot more complicated than saying "someone [censored] up, fix it". And often that attitude is the surest way of getting nothing done.

[beelzebub 23,390]

So Jaded why can't THEY get it right ? Other teams with other gear can all seem to manage it.

Stop making excuses for them.

[beelzebub 23,390]

Acutually Jaded though I respect your involvement in that industry it really is all but as simple as Someones stuffed up. We , the club will have spec'd a colour. Pantone graded it. Given samples etc . NB then have to make THAT colour which ought to be a deep blood red. You know full well crimson isn't even close to that. Don't you !!

[beelzebub 23,390]

Now i may well be on the wrong track and happy to be corrected but I would suppose the NB Mfc jumpers are 'colored' as is pretty std these days via dye sublimation. Effectively the design is printed. Often in printing and digital displays colour can veer away from true as a result of the medium used to display. There are corrective balances used when this occurs.

The overcoating or fixing can also effect what the eye sees.

Most causes for incorrect colour are as result of the old si-so fault. Ie sh!t in -sh!t out!!

It isn't uncommon for differing media to represent differently. The socks (woven from dyed thread) would probably always look a tad different as refract differently but those jumpers just look the wrong colour. Simple.

Schwabby is on record as saying the most important thing at the club , and I presume in iconic form, is the jumper. There can be mo accepting of near enough. To do do effectively sets the tone for all things. It needs to be right. All things needs to be done right, as is the tenet of the MFC.

[Jaded No More 68,975]

OK firstly, I don't work for NB so I have no idea what went wrong.

You're right in saying that AFL jumpers are not batch or yarn dyed, but are printed. I'm thinking digital printing.

The process of digital fabric printing is very precise when you're not talking about an all over asymmetrical print. If the machinists don't place the garment correctly you get skewed uneven prints, or the issues we had with the last batch where a lighter shade of blue appeared around the logo.

It's very possible that in the process of printing the colours didn't come out right or weren't overlaid correctly. It's probably not a hard problem to correct, because we have seen correctly coloured jumpers, but everything takes time. You're talking thousands of jumpers that need to be manually laid for printing, plus finishing, pressing, packaging, shipping etc.

I have no doubt these issues will get fixed, but teething problems are always to be expected. You have to remember that NB have never dealt with AFL apparel before and therefore it's fair to assume that neither have their makers.

NB is a multi million dollar international company. I doubt they're happy to put their names to imperfect products and I'm sure they'll fix it. In the meantime, be patient and stop pointing fingers. Garment manufacturing still has plenty of human processing and therefore plenty of human error involved.

If I got worked up over every manufacturing [censored] up I've had to deal with, I'd have died of a heart attack a long time ago.

[DeezMan 4]

OK firstly, I don't work for NB so I have no idea what went wrong.

You're right in saying that AFL jumpers are not batch or yarn dyed, but are printed. I'm thinking digital printing.

The process of digital fabric printing is very precise when you're not talking about an all over asymmetrical print. If the machinists don't place the garment correctly you get skewed uneven prints, or the issues we had with the last batch where a lighter shade of blue appeared around the logo.

It's very possible that in the process of printing the colours didn't come out right or weren't overlaid correctly. It's probably not a hard problem to correct, because we have seen correctly coloured jumpers, but everything takes time. You're talking thousands of jumpers that need to be manually laid for printing, plus finishing, pressing, packaging, shipping etc.

I have no doubt these issues will get fixed, but teething problems are always to be expected. You have to remember that NB have never dealt with AFL apparel before and therefore it's fair to assume that neither have their makers.

NB is a multi million dollar international company. I doubt they're happy to put their names to imperfect products and I'm sure they'll fix it. In the meantime, be patient and stop pointing fingers. Garment manufacturing still has plenty of human processing and therefore plenty of human error involved.

If I got worked up over every manufacturing [censored] up I've had to deal with, I'd have died of a heart attack a long time ago.

Reply post of the decade, let alone the year, anyone?

Beautifully said, Jaded. Hear hear.

[Still Waiting 94]

You are correct belzebub59. Yes, colour standards such as Pantone are used to attain correct hue in controlled light situations. Now we can't have lab lights spotting on all of our players' jumpers during every game but we can have a very close match that is acceptable to the club. A Pantone number was specced and the printer simply did not get it right. This has to be corrected.....no argument.

Reds under certain indoor light conditions appear different in say, outdoor light. Incidentally red is not a primary colour. Bright Red is in simple terms Magenta with added yellow. It can be more complicated than this, but essentially this is fact. The substrate on which these inks or dyes are printed do alter the final eye-approved result. A proficient colour matcher, has the task of compensating for these variables. It's not rocket science and can be done fairly quickly. If the initial jumpers were faulty (GIVEN) then that part of the contract is yet to be fulfilled. Again, not rocket science! I should add here that more yellow in the red, will simply turn the red into an orange hue. Extra black in the red will turn it maroon. The actual concentration of pigment or dye has a big effect too. Concentrated pigments/dyes have an effect of deepening or "bolding" most colours and allowing improved opacity or covering up of the base substrate/material.

This problem is real and can be quite readily fixed and nothing should get in the way of this happening. There was no real need to wait until March for replacements. Cant understand this. As NIKE would say....JUST DO IT!

[jayceebee31 768]

Wasn't there a known issue with the first delivered guernseys ? If they aren't blood red then quite frankly the club ought to chuckem back at NB with a please explain .. And FIX !!!

Agree- get it right.Not a great start by NB..