Paul Johnson

[titan_uranus 25,020]

There were plenty on here that thought Jamar was a spud until this year in fact there were heaps on here wanting him to be traded at this time last year. IIRC i pointed out that if we did we would have no one to play in the ruck.

PJ has show he can actually ruck and I reckon if given a chance he might prove some on here wrong. I understand that he has been given the opportunity before but so was Jamar, I led the charge in calling for him to be delisted up until 2009 when he started to show that he was actually quite good.

He was also one that played 20 kilos lighter than he was and regularly got pushed aside by smaller players.

RR and Axis of Bob have gone over it already. Suffice to say PJ is lacking in the core ruckman abilities: he can't ruck (don't even try to argue otherwise, he cannot ruck), he can't mark the ball (again, you're only wasting your time to try to say the opposite), he never, ever, uses his 100kg frame the way he should, and despite the fact that his kicking is actually passable he manages to pick the wrong option over and over again.

Jamar's problem was that he didn't put in second efforts, he didn't know where to position himself, he didn't run hard enough, and he didn't get involved in the play enough. He's fixed all that. I don't expect PJ to be able to fix his chronically terrible ruckwork, nor do I expect him to be able to fix his marking over night.

[jacey 333]

he can't ruck (don't even try to argue otherwise, he cannot ruck), he can't mark the ball (again, you're only wasting your time to try to say the opposite), he never, ever, uses his 100kg frame the way he should,

If posters can't see those three issues and argue the case, you're just wasting your time.

PJ workrate is pretty good. He just has zero big man skills.

Chop.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

RR and Axis of Bob have gone over it already. Suffice to say PJ is lacking in the core ruckman abilities: he can't ruck (don't even try to argue otherwise, he cannot ruck), he can't mark the ball (again, you're only wasting your time to try to say the opposite), he never, ever, uses his 100kg frame the way he should, and despite the fact that his kicking is actually passable he manages to pick the wrong option over and over again.

Jamar's problem was that he didn't put in second efforts, he didn't know where to position himself, he didn't run hard enough, and he didn't get involved in the play enough. He's fixed all that. I don't expect PJ to be able to fix his chronically terrible ruckwork, nor do I expect him to be able to fix his marking over night.

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?tid1=12&pid1=282&tid2=12&pid2=527&type=A&fid1=S&fid2=S

Taking in to account he would have had very little game time and even less in the ruck, he managed to get an average 10.5 hit outs per game this year. PJ's biggest problem is his capacity to choose the right option, I'll give you that, but he is quite a good kick and he never stops trying, also he is surprisingly quick for a big man and he would be no worse than Hale IMO.

[titan_uranus 25,020]

PJ's biggest problem is his capacity to choose the right option, I'll give you that, but he is quite a good kick and he never stops trying

No it isn't. His biggest problem is his inability to use his body. So we can't really put him at FF in the role we wanted Hale to play in that he won't crash through the packs like he should.

Sure, he gives his all, but so does Bell and no one complained about letting him go. Unfortunately it's not enough.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

No it isn't. His biggest problem is his inability to use his body. So we can't really put him at FF in the role we wanted Hale to play in that he won't crash through the packs like he should.

Sure, he gives his all, but so does Bell and no one complained about letting him go. Unfortunately it's not enough.

PJ has a few biggest problems and picking the right option is one of them.

I seem to recall that Simon Godfrey always gave his all...but...

[Dee Fan 3,247]

With Hale going to Hawthorn and there being no other viable alternative I get the feeling we will find out next year whether he can play or not. If he was going to get the chop they may have to have a rethink, unless they have Jacobs in mind.

Just as a matter of interest who on here thought that Hale was an aggressive player that crashed packs and used his height and body to advantage?

Edited October 9, 2010 by RobbieF

[John Crow Batty 8,863]

A second ruckman is always going to be a second ruckman whilst there is a dominant figure around. Both Darren Jolly and Mark Jamar lived in Jeff's White's shadow which inhibited their development. Jolly got out when he saw his opportunities were going to be limited. Jamar would have likely done the same if he wasn't injured so much. Whilst Jamar is there, Johnson's got to value add to his game by maximising his physical presence which should be his best asset whether in the ruck or forward line. This is his last chance because there is no where else to go. If Hale came to us his opportunities would have dried up permanently.

Edited October 9, 2010 by america de cali

[rpfc 28,431]

With McKenzie and Spencer on the list we now have only freed up 1 position so far with Green onto the VL and Miller and Bell delisted.

So if we love that pick 32 so much, and a lot of posters think it super-important to our future, we have to release a few more players.

Do we want a PSD pick?

No?

Ok, then. But we still need to release 2 players at least before the ND.

So Johnson and ...?

[Steamin Demon 392]

He has, and he has.

If he didn't and didn't, the club would not have persevered with him for so long. Until 2009-2010, being aggressive in contests was Jamar's only trick. He showed nothing else.

If you want to draw a parallel with Jamar, then Jake Spencer is the guy to expect to come on, not PJ IMO.

Nothing else ? You obviously never watched him at Sandy, It was only a matter of time before he was going to bring his strong marks and exellent tap work to the AFL. Jamar has football smarts this is something that Spencer has shown a bit fat 0 of.

Edited October 10, 2010 by Steamin Demon

[Hiram Cowfreak 78]

A second ruckman is always going to be a second ruckman whilst there is a dominant figure around. Both Darren Jolly and Mark Jamar lived in Jeff's White's shadow which inhibited their development. Jolly got out when he saw his opportunities were going to be limited. Jamar would have likely done the same if he wasn't injured so much. Whilst Jamar is there, Johnson's got to value add to his game by maximising his physical presence which should be his best asset whether in the ruck or forward line. This is his last chance because there is no where else to go. If Hale came to us his opportunities would have dried up permanently.

I had a chat to a few players at the races yesterday, and one confirmed that the happiest man in the club is PJ now the Halestorm has passed.

So it sounds like he'll go around again with us next season.

On a brighter note, Big Stef Martin has got over his injuries and despatched the other issue and is expected to have a big season next year.

I don't know how we will go in the draft, at this stage we only have pick 12...when do we finalise our senior and rookie lists?

[1858 285]

So, now that the dust has settled we face the PJ situation.

I'm guessing the club will opt to keep him in light of our ruck situation but negotiations could be a little delicate here. Do we offer 1 yr and if he demands 2 yrs and threatens to walk do we go with 2 yrs?

[Rogue 585]

We're not getting Hale I don't think. So I would think that logically means we'll be keeping Johnson.

Edit: This doesn't exactly please me, but I think that's what will happen.

Hale would be a second ruck/forward for us.

PJ is a first ruck prospect with no other string to his bow.

Newton is the one who would be happy we didn't get Hale IMO.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

So, now that the dust has settled we face the PJ situation.

I'm guessing the club will opt to keep him in light of our ruck situation but negotiations could be a little delicate here. Do we offer 1 yr and if he demands 2 yrs and threatens to walk do we go with 2 yrs?

No. We delist him. If we did offer him anything its one year on low $$$. No save the charade...delist.

[IWAP 170]

Delist, and look to rookie Jamar insurance (perhaps even Johnson if he is around)

[Dee Fan 3,247]

No. We delist him. If we did offer him anything its one year on low $$$. No save the charade...delist.

Who shall we play as second ruck then? maybe Spenser or perhaps Gawn or even Fitzy, which one would you choose?

[ox_5 163]

Who shall we play as second ruck then? maybe Spenser or perhaps Gawn or even Fitzy, which one would you choose?

I think with the sub coming in Robbie alot of teams wont play a second ruck. I would keep him for if Jamar goes down

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Who shall we play as second ruck then? maybe Spenser or perhaps Gawn or even Fitzy, which one would you choose?

We need someone to pinch hit in the ruck to give Jamar a breather and be able to play forward. PJ does neither effectively

I'd use Martin or Newton off the rookie list and look to find a ruck/fed option in the next draft.

[beelzebub 23,376]

I like some others here had some hope for PJ . After transferring across and some lacklustre efforts he stepped up a little and began playing with some flair. This was in hindsight a false dawn. The inferred progression never materialised

heres a guy..nearly 2 metres tall ..easily over the 100 kilo mark, built quite well, who simply FAILS to impose. Guys he would/should eclipse others...but doesnt !! Plays like a good deal smaller...cant play as his real size !! go figure. He relishes the lesser intensity of the VFL and can stamp himslef there...then gets hustled out the way when back in the seniors.

Not sure if its a between the ears problem or what... but ive lost patience.. move him on...let some other have his game time.. and maybe come on.

[rpfc 28,431]

The facts have changed slightly in that we didn't get what we wanted in trade week. PJ's use, however small, was not snuffed out.

The problem is, however, that we need spots for Picks 49 and 52 or whatever they will be.

Unless the FD rate Johnson and TMac as more value than those picks I am afraid they are gone.

It would be a bit of a wasted trade if Pick 52 is not used from the Cheney deal.

However, if you look at it from the POV of moving Cheney out so TMac or PJ get a reprieve - then it is a success.

Again, it depends on your view of the players mentioned.

I really feel dirty talking about players that are in the bottom 4 or 5 on our list.

Surely they do not require such attention?

Eh, that's football.

A bunch of idiots arguing the toss.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

I really feel dirty talking about players that are in the bottom 4 or 5 on our list.

I would agree, but then there'll be plenty of time to talk about Grimes, Frawley, Watts, Trengove, Scully etc etc... and surely you would know as well as any demonlander that you're least important 6 or so have an important role to play. It can't all be left up to your best 6.

Surely they do not require such attention?

Jamar certainly didn't. Was probably the biggest spud on the list in the past 10 years there for a while given the time invested and his return up until 2 years ago. Certainly was the most disappointing player for mine of those years in which he was playing badly... and look what happened there? I reckon he's changed the landscape of demonland more than any player in its short history, and he'll be used as the "reason" why spuds are supported...

A bunch of idiots arguing the toss.

Easy tiger. We all have our own opinions. I'll say you're wrong, and disagree wholeheartedly, and I'll be proven right some of the time... but that doesn't make you an idiot. I'd expect the same courtesy.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Again, it depends on your view of the players mentioned.

Missed this bit. On demoland, it's absolutely right. In the real world, it ONLY depends on the footy department's view of the players mentioned. I would suggest that it's a pretty good chance they're frustrated with PJ, and wanted Hale (or potentially wanted Hale to play as a stay at home FF). I would say it's not the Hale trade that signalled trouble for PJ, more the rule change...

But even with all these comings and goings, we've been told over and over by the club (and Mark Jamar in interviews) that they like PJ, and have persisted with him because they see worth in him. As far as I'm concerned, that's all we need to know... What I don't get is how know-it-all posters (some mods) make blanket assumptions that a player is cactus, and was never any good, DESPITE the club's forthright and transparent insistence that he's a required player. Fair enough if he gets a few years, plays a bit of good footy, then rules and competition for spots conspire to squeeze him out... it happens to every list, and to the vast majority of players. But that's like saying, for example, Daniel Bell was never up to it... The kid played some really good footy until Bennie Johnson ended his career. Of COURSE with hindsight it was a bad option to keep him on, but what sort of club would we be if we just let him go? You have to give anyone on your list with ability every chance of being a success. For the player, the club's dignity, and bottom line for MFC's success in the long run. Why posters have this infantile and arrogant need to be the first to call a career over I'll never understand. Why they're mods confuses me even more.

Bu I digress.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

I really feel dirty talking about players that are in the bottom 4 or 5 on our list.

Surely they do not require such attention?

Eh, that's football.

A bunch of idiots arguing the toss.

I would like to think that all the players on our list are a realistic chance of playing a game or two at some stage of their career whether it be this year or the next.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

I like some others here had some hope for PJ . After transferring across and some lacklustre efforts he stepped up a little and began playing with some flair. This was in hindsight a false dawn. The inferred progression never materialised

heres a guy..nearly 2 metres tall ..easily over the 100 kilo mark, built quite well, who simply FAILS to impose. Guys he would/should eclipse others...but doesnt !! Plays like a good deal smaller...cant play as his real size !! go figure. He relishes the lesser intensity of the VFL and can stamp himslef there...then gets hustled out the way when back in the seniors.

Not sure if its a between the ears problem or what... but ive lost patience.. move him on...let some other have his game time.. and maybe come on.

I agree with you and others that PJ doesn't impose himself and it is rather frustrating, but one of the players frequently mentioned on here as his replacement, Martin, is even worse in that respect, he attacks the centre bounce as if it were a tip off at the basketball. He is nearly as big as PJ and no where near as aggressive so I can't see him being the answer, he plays like a large midfielder.

[jayceebee31 761]

Hale would be a second ruck/forward for us.

PJ is a first ruck prospect with no other string to his bow.

Newton is the one who would be happy we didn't get Hale IMO.

I agree-Newton an thank his VERY LUCKY STARS once agin IMO.