Does Moloney play in 2012?

[pitchfork 181]

Bar injury, Beamer may well have won the B&F, but is he in our best 22 come 2012?

Moloney and Jamar definitely have a good thing going, beamers stoppage work is superb.

BUT

He is really slow and not in a Joel Selwood way, he has actually got zero acceleration and can't put on any genuine defensive pressure if he's more than 3 meters off the ball.

In the absence of Moloney, Sylvia got more time in the middle...It's clear Sylvia is our classiest and best player right now, he was clearly the best in an almost FIGJAM way vs. the Roos this week.

Now with Junior making way for Jordie, and Gysberts probably coming up, one of Jones/Moloney won't be in the team....

Also best forward line will include Watts, Jurrah, Green, Petterd, Wona.Sylvia will surely be spending more time in the guts because that's where he should be.

So really I see it as Baeamer vs.Jones. (nothing new or mind blowing)

Beamer's pros are his stoppage work, but this is made up a bit by Sylvia and Scully with one more pre season

Jones can tag, can run, can dispose better of the ball on his day - I just see him as a potential swiss army knife

I love Beamer and he will play in 20102 I think...but in the regular 22, not sure

Edited August 30, 2010 by pitchfork

[stuie 7,374]

Bar injury, Beamer may well have won the B&F, but is he in our best 22 come 2012?

Moloney and Jamar definitely have a good thing going, beamers stoppage work is superb.

BUT

He is really slow and not in a Joel Selwood way, he has actually got zero acceleration and can't put on any genuine defensive pressure if he's more than 3 meters off the ball.

In the absence of Moloney, Sylvia got more time in the middle...It's clear Sylvia is our classiest and best player right now, he was clearly the best in an almost FIGJAM way vs. the Roos this week.

Now with Junior making way for Jordie, and Gysberts probably coming up, one of Jones/Moloney won't be in the team....

Also best forward line will include Watts, Jurrah, Green, Petterd, Wona.Sylvia will surely be spending more time in the guts because that's where he should be.

So really I see it as Baeamer vs.Jones. (nothing new or mind blowing)

Beamer's pros are his stoppage work, but this is made up a bit by Sylvia and Scully with one more pre season

Jones can tag, can run, can dispose better of the ball on his day - I just see him as a potential swiss army knife

I love Beamer and he will play in 20102 I think...but in the regular 22, not sure

Soooooo... you're saying he could have won best and fairest but isn't in our best 22? Did you just answer your own thread? Think so.

[big tuna 0]

Soooooo... you're saying he could have won best and fairest but isn't in our best 22? Did you just answer your own thread? Think so.

You have managed to misunderstand a pretty simple question stuie.... he is asking about best 22 in 2012 not in 2010.

He would be in my best 22 unless a Gysberts or a yet to be recruited inside midfielder displaces him. If it came down to a choice between Moloney and Jones I would pick Moloney because he is able to extract the footy from tight situations and win those crucial clearances on a more regular basis. Jones gets caught holding the ball too often and I don't think his pace or foot skills are significantly better than Beamer.

[stuie 7,374]

No, didn't misunderstand, just think it's all a bit silly. Let's talk about next year, sure, let's talk about form this season, but to be talking about a players form 2 years from now is going a bit far.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Good opening post.

I think the spirit it was meant, was to kind of further the "Jones dropping was a good thing" thread from a few weeks back. What he's trying to say is that as good as Moloney's been, in a couple of years, when the Scullys, Trengoves, Gysberts, Bleases, and Jordies are demanding 22 games apiece, that Moloney, along with some of our other first selections, might struggle to be picked on some occasions.

Like I said in another thread, along the same lines (though not relevant to Moloney)... Over the next few seasons we won't be seeing a mass-retirement like the Crows recruiters are enjoying at the moment. They're in the position where they can go to the draft and utilise a lot of picks, simply to bring their team back up to the required 44 (or whatever it is now).

The demons only have Bruce (30) and Green (29) who are at or close to the dreaded 30. And those guys could easily play another 2 years. 4 in Green's case.

After that it's Davey (27), Jamar (27), Moloney (26), Warnock (26), Johnson (26), JoelMac (25), Rivers (25) and the next cab off the rank hasn't even cracked 25 yet in Sylvia (24). That's LESS THAN TEN guys over 25!!

We're going to see a lot of early-career delistings in the next 3-5 years. Which is, of course, a good way to be in terms of list development. But it does mean we're going to be watching the club make some tough calls.

[jayceebee31 761]

Good opening post.

I think the spirit it was meant, was to kind of further the "Jones dropping was a good thing" thread from a few weeks back. What he's trying to say is that as good as Moloney's been, in a couple of years, when the Scullys, Trengoves, Gysberts, Bleases, and Jordies are demanding 22 games apiece, that Moloney, along with some of our other first selections, might struggle to be picked on some occasions.

Like I said in another thread, along the same lines (though not relevant to Moloney)... Over the next few seasons we won't be seeing a mass-retirement like the Crows recruiters are enjoying at the moment. They're in the position where they can go to the draft and utilise a lot of picks, simply to bring their team back up to the required 44 (or whatever it is now).

The demons only have Bruce (30) and Green (29) who are at or close to the dreaded 30. And those guys could easily play another 2 years. 4 in Green's case.

After that it's Davey (27), Jamar (27), Moloney (26), Warnock (26), Johnson (26), JoelMac (25), Rivers (25) and the next cab off the rank hasn't even cracked 25 yet in Sylvia (24). That's LESS THAN TEN guys over 25!!

We're going to see a lot of early-career delistings in the next 3-5 years. Which is, of course, a good way to be in terms of list development. But it does mean we're going to be watching the club make some tough calls.

A fair assessment- some may part way soon.Actually very soon.Next week.

[two sheds jackson 3]

It's a fair question, but I think he'll play into his 30s. With regards to the points you raised, his strengths easily compensate for his lack of speed, and carrying the odd slow midfielder won't really hurt our run. I'm not sure Sylvia will ever have the engine to spend much more time in the midfield than he does already, and it's worth considering whether you really want to see him spend significantly less time at half forward, considering what he brings to the forward line.

For mine, Moloney has a few intangible qualities that put him ahead of Jones given a choice between them. It might be a dated view, but I think there'll always be some value in having a couple of huge, bollocking midfielders who will absolutely take your head off if you get between them and the ball, particularly for finals and big games. I'm not questioning the hardness of our young mids, but I don't see any coming through who fit this description (maybe Tapscott, but I havn't seen enough). Moloney is the closest thing on our list, and while this in and of itself doesn't justify his place in the team, it tips the scales in his favor when comparing him with someone who he's otherwise quite evenly matched with, in Jones. Also, while Dappa is right that we'll have a congested list in the next few years from a lack of retirements, the flipside to this is that with our scarcity of older heads, a 29 year old Moloney could play a vital leadership role.

Edited August 30, 2010 by two sheds jackson

[Gorgoroth 13,016]

And if the AFL get their way with less rotations and more ground time, will that bring people back to a better pace for Beamer, possibly.

I think he should lose 2-3kg of muscle, I think he carries too much.

[Deetective Sgt. Taggert 389]

It might be a dated view, but I think there'll always be some value in having a couple of huge, bollocking midfielders who will absolutely take your head off if you get between them and the ball, particularly for finals and big games.

Didn't the hawks bring that ex-Port Adelaide player Stuart Dew out of retirement for this exact reason?

[Chook 15,022]

Didn't the hawks bring that ex-Port Adelaide player Stuart Dew out of retirement for this exact reason?

That, and the fact that Stewert Dew was an awesome kick, something which Moloney clearly is not. But because of his role as our best stoppage player, he is worth keeping in the team - particularly when you add in his leadership ability. Another probelm with Nathan Jones is that when he is tagging you, all you have to do to beat him is drag him into the forward line, where is midget-ness and lack of pace means he can be out-marked very easily. In my 2012 best-22, Nathan Jones would get games on a match-up by match-up basis. Against Geelong-type midfields, where leg-speed isn't an issue, but strength is, Jones would come in for [insert light-weight mid here], but would likely not get a game against Essendon-type "blazing-speed" teams.

So yes, Beamer will be in the 22 because he is a good leader and our best "tap it down my throat" mid.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

No, didn't misunderstand, just think it's all a bit silly. Let's talk about next year, sure, let's talk about form this season, but to be talking about a players form 2 years from now is going a bit far.

Big Tuna is right.

I think its a pertinent point raised by pitchfork and the time frame reasonable. We have had posters talking about our window of opportunity for a flag up to 5 years out.

That, and the fact that Stewert Dew was an awesome kick, something which Moloney clearly is not.

Dew provide premiership player experience with a harden body and good skill set. Moloney is a good long kick of a football. Its just his decision making in the heat of battle does not always result in the right decision by foot.

[Chook 15,022]

Dew provide premiership player experience with a harden body and good skill set. Moloney is a good long kick of a football. Its just his decision making in the heat of battle does not always result in the right decision by foot.

If you call "bomb the ball to 45 out" a good long kick. He has the capacity to kick the ball well over long distances, but as you say, his decision making is lacking. But it's not that he makes the wrong decision, but that he seems to make no decision at all.

With Beamer, it seems to be a matter of:

1. Do I have the ball? If yes, go to 2. If no, get ball.

2. Am I being tackled? If yes, barge through x number of players, then go to 3. If no, go to 3 anyway.

3. Kick ball long into forward-line. Return to 1.

[jayceebee31 761]

Big Tuna is right.

I think its a pertinent point raised by pitchfork and the time frame reasonable. We have had posters talking about our window of opportunity for a flag up to 5 years out.

Dew provide premiership player experience with a harden body and good skill set. Moloney is a good long kick of a football. Its just his decision making in the heat of battle does not always result in the right decision by foot.

Agree -re his decision making.He seems slow in the mind and slow in the body movement.May have bulked up too much IMO would be lucky to hold his spot in 2011, let alone in 2012. Will be in the leadership group, but heaven help us if he is captain.

[Disco Demons 92]

season 2012 is a long way away!

Assuming our young crop of kids develop to there full potential Moloney probably won't be in our best 22.

But with rotations likely to be capped next year will this affect blokes like moloney?

[old55 23,687]

Moloney v Jones

http://www.pro-stats.com.au/psw/web/compare_players?tid1=109&pid1=2003034&year1=2010&tid2=109&pid2=2006117&year2=2010

[H_T 3,049]

Moloney v Jones

http://www.pro-stats.com.au/psw/web/compare_players?tid1=109&pid1=2003034&year1=2010&tid2=109&pid2=2006117&year2=2010

Thanks old. Interesting. Moloney (26yo) shades Jones (22yo) in most aspects of the game.

[titan_uranus 25,042]

I think this question will be a lot easier to answer at the end of next year. It's a bit too specualtive to talk about 2012 at the end of 2010. Who knows what Moloney will provide in 2011?

Suffice to say, we missed him when he was out. We would have been a lot closer to Hawthorn in Round 20 if we'd had Moloney. He is probably still our best clearance player, and his strength in his upper body allows him to break tackles a lot more easily than Scully, Trengove or Gysberts.

At the moment I think he'll be there in 2012, but with our other mids coming through he can't afford a crap 2011.

[rpfc 28,734]

No-one that roves a ruckman the way Moloney does for Jamar is slow of mind.

And this preoccupation with pace is becoming absurd - it's moving the footy quick that matters the most. Chasedowns from a stoppage are rare to the point of irrelevancy, non-issue.

Moloney first half of the year made me think he was in the top 50 players in the comp.

His clearance work was Powell-esque.

Edited August 31, 2010 by rpfc

[old dee 23,870]

Guys I find it hard to believe you think Moloney will not be there in 2012.

The guy will only be 28.

He bleeds red and blue

He is tough and gets the ball ( which is a hell of a start )

He never takes a backward step and will be great for our young mids as they develop over the next 3 years.

Every team needs his type

Edited August 31, 2010 by old dee

[pitchfork 181]

No-one that roves a ruckman the way Moloney does for Jamar is slow of mind.

And this preoccupation with pace is becoming absurd - it's moving the footy quick that matters the most. Chasedowns from a stoppage are rare to the point of irrelevancy, non-issue.

Moloney first half of the year made me think he was in the top 50 players in the comp.

His clearance work was Powell-esque.

RPFC: He's definitely not slow of mind, great rapport with Jamar. It's not so much pace that's the issue, it's acceleration and lateral agility. Beamer really struggles to contain guys, it's not about chasing guys down.

Around stoppages he's great..but Jordie seems to be getting better at first use of the ruck each week, and the Sculldog is just frikkin unbelievable. It's a fantastic one-dimension to have, but I just reckon if Jones can improve when his opponent moves into the opposing forward line he'll get the gig. Jones can be the "swiss army knife" that could be really useful. In the end we're probably talking about a spot on the bench by 2012 so it just seems that Nathan may be more useable.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Bar injury, Beamer may well have won the B&F, but is he in our best 22 come 2012?

Moloney and Jamar definitely have a good thing going, beamers stoppage work is superb.

BUT

He is really slow and not in a Joel Selwood way, he has actually got zero acceleration and can't put on any genuine defensive pressure if he's more than 3 meters off the ball.

In the absence of Moloney, Sylvia got more time in the middle...It's clear Sylvia is our classiest and best player right now, he was clearly the best in an almost FIGJAM way vs. the Roos this week.

Now with Junior making way for Jordie, and Gysberts probably coming up, one of Jones/Moloney won't be in the team....

Also best forward line will include Watts, Jurrah, Green, Petterd, Wona.Sylvia will surely be spending more time in the guts because that's where he should be.

So really I see it as Baeamer vs.Jones. (nothing new or mind blowing)

Beamer's pros are his stoppage work, but this is made up a bit by Sylvia and Scully with one more pre season

Jones can tag, can run, can dispose better of the ball on his day - I just see him as a potential swiss army knife

I love Beamer and he will play in 20102 I think...but in the regular 22, not sure

Just because some players get AFL games early on in their careers doesn't mean they will keep up the pace. dunny didn't & is only now showing a little.

Each step the club takes up the ladder will expose new struggles per individual. Thats why I say don't overstate our list strength, it's too soon. Yes we have talent, but it's only Potential talent. Not proven.

That is why I wanted the best Key Position Pick we can afford.

If you think we've got a list currently, to take us to 3rd posi in 3 years, then subtract 33% for what will go wrong & you'd be closer to the real mark.

Lets keep building.

[Keyser Söze 0]

Should we maybe wait to see how he performs in 2011 before passing this judgement..?

I agree that it is feasible he could be a core player or he could be on the periphery, but to predict any more is seriously stretching it.

[old55 23,687]

Jones swiss army knife doesn't have any blades - it has plays every week, goes hard, great endurance.

[mdemonski2 403]

Jones swiss army knife doesn't have any blades - it has plays every week, goes hard, great endurance.

Don't forget also that as the picture becomes clearer over the next few years, we will need more than the starting six in the midfield. Bench and depth players also required to work in and out of midfield rotations. Beamer a required player for a number of years yet imo. Let's wait and see I guess

[PeterJames 46]

Only read the opening post and i'm thinking are you for real?

Beamer may well be captain in 2012. He should be and will will at least be in the leadership group. Sick of hearing people say Gysberts (who has played 3 games) Blease (who I have only seen last weekend for Casey and struggled at VFL level) Tapscott (last game for casey didn't have 1 kick! only 4 handballs) are going to take over Beamer. No disrespect to the players I have mentioned but they aren't fit to tie Moloney's boot laces at the moment.

Don't forget Moloney and Jamar were the leading clearance combo in the AFL before his injury.