Our 1st game team vs Hawks

[furious d 472]

If you expect a victory (or anything close) against Hawthorn, your expectations are far...... far.. too high. Over inflated expectations put unnecessary pressure on what is nothing more than a bunch of kids, with kids bodies, with limited time playing together and with an incredible lack of experience.

These kids of ours have talent....... cream... which over time will rise to the top...... but this is still some time away.

We will not win this game, I expect a solid loss and will be ecstatic to see a competitive four quarter performance resulting in a 3 - 5 goal loss. Realistically this is where we are at and the best we could hope for. Don't believe our one eyed optimistic crap....... our own bs. We are where we are (12 wins in 3 seasons) and we should not have expectations of the highly unlikely or even the impossible.

Patience is a virtue!

I don't think anyone would be expecting a victory, but I don't think it's unreasonable to hope for one, or to even contemplate that one may be possible against a good but weakened side. Putting limits on a young side is just as unhealthy as as having unreasonable expectations.

If we are to stop being the laughing stock of the competition we need to have some wins against reasonable sides. In the last 2 years we've won 1 game against teams from Melbourne, that HAS to change this year.

My expectations, and I don't think they're unreasonable, are that over the next 2 years we will be inconsistent. We'll win games we weren't expected to and lose games we expected to win. Gradually over that period we should see more of the good stuff and less of the bad. The first win we have over a "good" side will do wonders for the confidence of this young group, can't think of a better time for it to happen than round 1.

FWIW I think we could roll an undermanned Hawks by a few goals, we could just as easily see a repeat of 2008, that's just the way it is when you have a list as inexperienced as ours.

[Allen Jakovich 516]

Despite significant injuries and suspensions, Hawthorn still has (in my opinion) the strongest list in the comp.

LOL, I stopped reading after that.

[Roost It 1,434]

Lets not get over excited by a couple of Hawk injuries or under estimate an incredibly strong Hawthorn list.

Despite significant injuries and suspensions, Hawthorn still has (in my opinion) the strongest list in the comp. The Hawks early injury issues seem disturbingly similar to their injury and suspension problems round 1, 2008. A day the the dees were destroyed by 15 goals. A day that sent a message to all other clubs and went a long way to setting up Hawthorns premiership season and our old lists destruction.

Don't forget we will be fielding a very inexperienced team with next to no finals experience verses the 2008 flag holders with superior depth, physic (age), and class.

It is far too early to expect Gimes, Trengove and Scully to match it with the Hawthorn midfield. You are kidding yourself if you believe our forward line even at its strongest (which it will be a long way off) will be able to kick a winning score against this seasoned, premiership, defensive unit which has been further strengthened in the off season.

Further our list has been equally hit by injury as Hawthorns, any gain that we may have due to Hawthorns poor off season luck has been neutralised by our own horrific injury list.

If you expect a victory (or anything close) against Hawthorn, your expectations are far...... far.. too high. Over inflated expectations put unnecessary pressure on what is nothing more than a bunch of kids, with kids bodies, with limited time playing together and with an incredible lack of experience.

These kids of ours have talent....... cream... which over time will rise to the top...... but this is still some time away.

We will not win this game, I expect a solid loss and will be ecstatic to see a competitive four quarter performance resulting in a 3 - 5 goal loss. Realistically this is where we are at and the best we could hope for. Don't believe our one eyed optimistic crap....... our own bs. We are where we are (12 wins in 3 seasons) and we should not have expectations of the highly unlikely or even the impossible.

Patience is a virtue!

Hawthorn have injuries to 4 or 5 of their best players. No sides list is strong enough for this not to cause cracks to appear. On top of this their defence has been suspect ever since Croad was injured. They are absolutely beatable. There is no reason not to play Grimes, Scully and Trengove in the centre. They will more than hold their own. Remember they dominated a pretty handy Adelaide midfield on the weekend. Remember Burgoyne, Rioli and Sewell won't play. Not to mention that Jamar should dominate the rucks. I'm tipping a win for the demons. With Bate, Green, Sylvia and Petterd forward it's a good mid sized line up that offers plenty of run and great kicking ability. Our back 6 look settled and strong and our midfield improving. This will be the first of our 8 - 10 wins. It might also be the sweetest!

[Bring-Back-Powell 15,240]

Are we really THAT desperate for a win?

Yep.

The AFL doesn't award premiership points for gallant losses against full strength sides.

How many times have clubs dined us on when we've been injury ravaged?

[Bring-Back-Powell 15,240]

I'm tipping a win for the demons. With Bate, Green, Sylvia and Petterd forward it's a good mid sized line up that offers plenty of run and great kicking ability. Our back 6 look settled and strong and our midfield improving. This will be the first of our 8 - 10 wins. It might also be the sweetest!

You are by far the most optimistic poster. I hope you're not setting yourself up for disappointment.

Given our injuries and inexperience, I think it's too much to expect a win against Hawthorn. I'd say 3-5 wins (all against bottom 8 teams) is a more realistic expectation for season 2010.

[Roost It 1,434]

You are by far the most optimistic poster. I hope you're not setting yourself up for disappointment.

Given our injuries and inexperience, I think it's too much to expect a win against Hawthorn. I'd say 3-5 wins (all against bottom 8 teams) is a more realistic expectation for season 2010.

No disappointment, it's only a game. I know where this club is at, we won 4 games last year and in reality beat Richmond. So if we only win 3 - 5 we've effectively gone backwards. That's not the direction I think we're going in. Sure we will get smashed a few times but we're highly likely to knock off Richmond(2), Fremantle, West Coast and Sydney. Possibles include Essendon, Carlton, North, Brisbane and Port. Then I just have a feeling we're going to roll the Hawks. Let's wait and see but anything less than 7 or 8 wins is unlikely in my opinion. The second half of this season should see us take some strides.

[... 11]

Yep.

The AFL doesn't award premiership points for gallant losses against full strength sides.

How many times have clubs dined us on when we've been injury ravaged?

Totally agree. Winning games is a necessary part of our development. Doesn't matter how the wins come or who they are against at this stage.

Beating an injury-ravaged Hawthorn (if it is actually possible) will not have the Dees wondering what might have been without the Hawks injuries: it will just be a win. Confidence will grow etc.

And it's a very pertinent point that many times clubs have dined on us when we were riddled with injury. Without Jurrah, Bell, Morton and others, we'll still put a good team on the ground - that's testimony to our depth.

I badly want us to win, and I don't care if the Hawks lose another 10 players in order for us to do so.

[Grand New Flag 3,227]

LOL, I stopped reading after that.

I did not say they were the best team. Just said they had the best list (in my opinion).

[jayceebee31 768]

No disappointment, it's only a game. I know where this club is at, we won 4 games last year and in reality beat Richmond. So if we only win 3 - 5 we've effectively gone backwards. That's not the direction I think we're going in. Sure we will get smashed a few times but we're highly likely to knock off Richmond(2), Fremantle, West Coast and Sydney. Possibles include Essendon, Carlton, North, Brisbane and Port. Then I just have a feeling we're going to roll the Hawks. Let's wait and see but anything less than 7 or 8 wins is unlikely in my opinion. The second half of this season should see us take some strides.

Great to see such an optimistic supporter. I actually agree with most you say- however you are also on record as saying we will win 3 of the first six. And on last Saturdays form that is not above us.

[grazman 7,504]

Hawthorn definately unavailable:

Franklin (suspended)

Bateman (suspended)

Bailey (knee)

Taylor (leg)

Sewell (collarbone)

Young (knee)

Burgoyne (hamstring)

Probably unavailable

Rioli

Osborne

Limited Preseason and possibly injured

Lewis

Dowler

Ellis

Melbourne definately unavailable

PJ (foot)

Jurrah (shoulder)

Bell (shoulder)

Morton (knee)

Tapscott (hip)

Gawn (knee)

Meesen (foot)

Probably Unavailable

Jetta

Limited Preseason and possibly unavailable (dependant on whether they play this weekend and next)

Bruce

Garland

Watts

Blease

[titan_uranus 25,174]

Despite significant injuries and suspensions, Hawthorn still has (in my opinion) the strongest list in the comp.

Gee, can't see what you see in Hawthorn. Sure, it's a pretty good list, but they've got no decent ruckmen (Simon Taylor and Brent Renouf are average at best) and their key defenders aren't great either (Gibson and Gilham are nothing special, Schoenmakers will be good but he's still a few years off). Definitely better than ours, but not that good.

Really, your entire post is skewed well too far to the negative. I agree that we're most likely to lose, and we could lose big. But the losses they've experienced (Franklin, Bateman, Sewell, Rioli, Burgoyne, Taylor) far outweigh ours (Jurrah, Morton, Bell, Johnson, Meesen, Gawn), much, much more so than in 2008.

[Goodvibes 3,596]

I'm not convinced we're a chance until Yze Magic arrives to proclaim us certain losers. If only he'd learn the value of the 'reverse mozz'!

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Yep.

The AFL doesn't award premiership points for gallant losses against full strength sides.

How many times have clubs dined us on when we've been injury ravaged?

Fair enough. Can't really argue with that. I guess what I'd like is a full strength demons outfit against a full strength Hawks outfit WITH a win. What I'm looking for is a real reason for pride, and a real reason to claim we are getting somewhere. Even though some people don't rate the Hawks (God knows why) they're still heavyweights of the comp with some of its biggest stars, and they're missing ruckmen. Smacking them in round 1 at full strength would have alleviated some of the shame of the big losses that are inevitable with a young side. You know very well that bragging rights in this case will go nowhere on a list with suspensions and injuries the length of the Hawks. I guess I'm just being selfish. There are more important things than bragging rights and supporter satisfaction. And 4 premiership points this early in the season would be more meaningful for the players, and for attendances than it would be for bigfooty infighting.

I badly want us to win, and I don't care if the Hawks lose another 10 players in order for us to do so.

Yeah, see, now THAT'S where I can't go with you. I want us to win, but against 22 rookies, it becomes completely hollow.

[4jacks 0]

Considering the injuries we have:

B: Rivers Warnock Cheney

HB: MacDonald Frawley Strauss

C: Davey McDonald Bruce

HF: Bate Miller Petterd

FF: Sylvia Green Wonaeamirri

R: Jamar Grimes Moloney

I: Trengove Martin/Spencer Scully McKenzie

E: Bennell McNamara Maric

Best so far IMO... except that Jones is missing, I reckon he'd come in for either McKenzie or Cheney, providing Bate, Davey, Bruce etc are all fit and playing. Tough call.

However, the fact that Morton, Jurrah and Watts are all missing is fairly sh1te.

[e25 5]

Never thought I'd say this, but...

JAMAR WILL BE THE KEY.

And I completely mean that.

If he can dominate, and he should, then we are in with a big chance.

[Allen Jakovich 516]

Never thought I'd say this, but...

JAMAR WILL BE THE KEY.

And I completely mean that.

If he can dominate, and he should, then we are in with a big chance.

Jamar is the key to our season.

He is the one player we can't afford to lose.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Jamar is the key to our season.

He is the one player we can't afford to lose.

It's crazy isn't it? He was a league joke for so long. Just goes to show some of the bigger guys take longer.

Now if we could just get the other 15 ruckmen going.

[WonnaJurah 5]

Hows Bail going, i heard he played a ripper vs Crows

[Sir Why You Little 37,296]

Fair enough. Can't really argue with that. I guess what I'd like is a full strength demons outfit against a full strength Hawks outfit WITH a win. What I'm looking for is a real reason for pride, and a real reason to claim we are getting somewhere. Even though some people don't rate the Hawks (God knows why) they're still heavyweights of the comp with some of its biggest stars, and they're missing ruckmen. Smacking them in round 1 at full strength would have alleviated some of the shame of the big losses that are inevitable with a young side. You know very well that bragging rights in this case will go nowhere on a list with suspensions and injuries the length of the Hawks. I guess I'm just being selfish. There are more important things than bragging rights and supporter satisfaction. And 4 premiership points this early in the season would be more meaningful for the players, and for attendances than it would be for bigfooty infighting.

Yeah, see, now THAT'S where I can't go with you. I want us to win, but against 22 rookies, it becomes completely hollow.

After the last 3 seasons Dappa i just want to win. Jeff Kennett could line up in the first ruck and i wouldn't care.

We are playing a home game against the Hawks. I Hate them and i want to see Melbourne BEAT them regardless of who wears the jumper.

I was there in 87 & 88 enough said

GO DEMONS

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Yeah, see, now THAT'S where I can't go with you. I want us to win, but against 22 rookies, it becomes completely hollow.

Given where MFC have been over the past three years and given that this side is young and developmental, how could any win they get this season be hollow? Particularly early on. In Freo we saw how fickle confidence and belief can dissolve in the space of a quarter. As a young side they need all of the belief and confidence they can get. And for long suffering supporters, they deserve it. If there is a win there to be taken then MFC should take it and celebrate for it is. An important step in the side's recovery.

I agree with you that some posters have got ahead of themselves underestimating Hawthorn. 2008 Premiers who will want to atone for 2009. Whatever the injuries they have they will still be a hard unit and if we do get a win first up I reckon its worth 8 points for what it brings to the Club, players and supporters.

Jamar is the key to our season.

He is the one player we can't afford to lose.

Jamar has been the only competent ruck we have had in the past three years. Its a pity he has had a number of injuries. Until Gawn, Spencer and Fitzpatrick mature, Jamar being fit and competitive at the centre bounces is absolutely critical for us. I wonder how many games we can get out of him this year.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

After the last 3 seasons Dappa i just want to win.

Naah, fair enough. We're talking about guesswork, and the "reasons" why one side wins over another. Besides, both sides are smashed by injury right now, and the Hawks are a big scalp even at the worst of times.

Given where MFC have been over the past three years and given that this side is young and developmental, how could any win they get this season be hollow? Particularly early on. In Freo we saw how fickle confidence and belief can dissolve in the space of a quarter. As a young side they need all of the belief and confidence they can get. And for long suffering supporters, they deserve it. If there is a win there to be taken then MFC should take it and celebrate for it is. An important step in the side's recovery.

Fair enough. Though it'll be interesting to see what happens if we DO win. What then? People will expect more from us, and if we don't deliver? If the injury list continues to swell? If we lose any one of about 6 players we desperately need to win ANY games? Ultimately we're talking about a lot of "what ifs." And like I said to WYL, even a half strength Hawks outfit is still the Hawks.

I agree with you that some posters have got ahead of themselves underestimating Hawthorn. 2008 Premiers who will want to atone for 2009. Whatever the injuries they have they will still be a hard unit and if we do get a win first up I reckon its worth 8 points for what it brings to the Club, players and supporters.

True that.

Jamar has been the only competent ruck we have had in the past three years. Its a pity he has had a number of injuries. Until Gawn, Spencer and Fitzpatrick mature, Jamar being fit and competitive at the centre bounces is absolutely critical for us. I wonder how many games we can get out of him this year.

It'll be interesting for sure, even if I don't agree with you on your point about him being the only competent ruckman. I'd say there's a number of players we can't expect to win more than a handful of games without. Green, Sylvia, any two of our big name KP defenders... and Davey especially.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Fair enough. Though it'll be interesting to see what happens if we DO win. What then? People will expect more from us, and if we don't deliver? If the injury list continues to swell? If we lose any one of about 6 players we desperately need to win ANY games? Ultimately we're talking about a lot of "what ifs." And like I said to WYL, even a half strength Hawks outfit is still the Hawks.

You will never stop supporters getting on the bandwagon too early and getting beyond themselves. There are already those talking up our Rd 1 chances on the back of a 2pt loss to a weakened Crows outfit. We may not win but if we do all of MFC should celebrate it. The confidence it should give the playing group will be invaluable and hopefully infectious.

It'll be interesting for sure, even if I don't agree with you on your point about him being the only competent ruckman. I'd say there's a number of players we can't expect to win more than a handful of games without. Green, Sylvia, any two of our big name KP defenders... and Davey especially.

Over the course of the year we need all of our AFL level senior list to be fit and available. Otherwise we are throwing kids to the wolves and the outcomes may not be that nice.

[titan_uranus 25,174]

Best so far IMO... except that Jones is missing, I reckon he'd come in for either McKenzie or Cheney, providing Bate, Davey, Bruce etc are all fit and playing. Tough call.

However, the fact that Morton, Jurrah and Watts are all missing is fairly sh1te.

I don't rate Jones anywhere near as highly as most others do, but to be fair to him he'd be in front of McKenzie. Cheney plays BP, so it's tough to compare them.

Never thought I'd say this, but...

JAMAR WILL BE THE KEY.

And I completely mean that.

If he can dominate, and he should, then we are in with a big chance.

Damn straight.

[burn in hell 0]

FF - Petterd Sylvia Wonamirri

HFF- Green Miller Bate

C- Trengove Grimes Davey

HBF- Bruce Frawley Mcdonald

FB- Cheney Warnock Rivers

FOL- Jamar Jones Moloney

INT- Scully Martin JnrMcDonald Bennell

emg- Maric, Bartram, Spenser

Hard nosed footy should get us a win.

This is a good footy side.

[RalphiusMaximus 6,102]

Very small in the forward line. However, all but one can kick straight, so that's a bonus. I'm also not sure that Joel Mac rates a spot in the starting lineup. I've only seen a little bit of him playing, but he didn't really impress me that much. I question his judgment.