Jack Watts

[Jarka 767]

This is a great thread for several reasons.

Firstly to Steamin Demon for setting the record straight. We all know that forums like this are full of rumour and innuendo, it's the water drinking station of the internet, but it's great to hear people with first hand knowledge sharing their experience. This point is the most important and we should all use this as a reference point going forward.

Secondly, it's discussing a serious issue about Watts with a couple of great examples already. Like it or not being a no.1 pick comes hand in hand with the extra pressure and expectations that the previous 1st picks have come under. The reality is that he will continually be judged against previous no.1 picks, this will be done by the media, opposition supporters and Melbourne supporters. It's not an opinion, it's a fact that this will continue to happen.

Thirdly, I find myself being oddly defensive of Watts when discussing him with opposition supporters. Much moreso than any other Melbourne player I can remember. It's strange, and I can't quite put my finger on it but at a guess I'd say that there is so much riding on Watts being elite that the alternative is just too painfull to imagine.

Which brings me to another issue. When discussing Watts on demonland it seems that there is an unspoken rule - No one is allowed to mutter any negative words about the kid. There's already an example in this thread, if a post shows the barest hint of any negative comment then s/he will be instantly attacked and flamed until beaten into submission.

We're all Melbourne fans, we all want him to succeed (my daydreams of Watts holding up the premiership cup are kinda sad that I try not to tell too many people), but like everyone involved with the club he is up for discussion. He should not be a protected species.

I believe I know the source of the problem. Before he was drafted there was a suggestion that he had always just relied on his skill to get through and didn't put in the hards yards on the track. Possible lack of desire in comparison to the other potential no.1 picks (See Naitanui & Rich). Of course we all know that the kids are scrutinised and monitored ad naseum, sometimes the slightest issues can be blown all out of proportion.

Perhaps some of us are just waiting for this to come true, personally I'm not, however I will continue to read the comments and use my own judgements whether to believe it or not. I will continue to question the positive and the negative remarks.

Unfortunately this will continue until Watts starts to perform well on the ground.

[Craig Drinker 179]

This is a great thread for several reasons.

Firstly to Steamin Demon for setting the record straight. We all know that forums like this are full of rumour and innuendo, it's the water drinking station of the internet, but it's great to hear people with first hand knowledge sharing their experience. This point is the most important and we should all use this as a reference point going forward.

Secondly, it's discussing a serious issue about Watts with a couple of great examples already. Like it or not being a no.1 pick comes hand in hand with the extra pressure and expectations that the previous 1st picks have come under. The reality is that he will continually be judged against previous no.1 picks, this will be done by the media, opposition supporters and Melbourne supporters. It's not an opinion, it's a fact that this will continue to happen.

Thirdly, I find myself being oddly defensive of Watts when discussing him with opposition supporters. Much moreso than any other Melbourne player I can remember. It's strange, and I can't quite put my finger on it but at a guess I'd say that there is so much riding on Watts being elite that the alternative is just too painfull to imagine.

Which brings me to another issue. When discussing Watts on demonland it seems that there is an unspoken rule - No one is allowed to mutter any negative words about the kid. There's already an example in this thread, if a post shows the barest hint of any negative comment then s/he will be instantly attacked and flamed until beaten into submission.

We're all Melbourne fans, we all want him to succeed (my daydreams of Watts holding up the premiership cup are kinda sad that I try not to tell too many people), but like everyone involved with the club he is up for discussion. He should not be a protected species.

I believe I know the source of the problem. Before he was drafted there was a suggestion that he had always just relied on his skill to get through and didn't put in the hards yards on the track. Possible lack of desire in comparison to the other potential no.1 picks (See Naitanui & Rich). Of course we all know that the kids are scrutinised and monitored ad naseum, sometimes the slightest issues can be blown all out of proportion.

Perhaps some of us are just waiting for this to come true, personally I'm not, however I will continue to read the comments and use my own judgements whether to believe it or not. I will continue to question the positive and the negative remarks.

Unfortunately this will continue until Watts starts to perform well on the ground.

Can't say I agree with your comments. What's being missed here is that Jack is just a young kid who is probably still another 6-8 kgs too light to play the postion he is expected to play.He also has the normal maturity of someone his age.

I believe it will only be fair to judge him when he has a man's body and the maturity that a couple of seasons at the MFC will bring along with 20 to 30 games under the belt.

Sometimes the expectations of supporters on these very young and under developed recruits borders on ridiculous regardless of what pick they were drafted! Being No. 1 draft pick doesn't guarantee you a mature body or mind!These guys are just normal kids.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Which brings me to another issue. When discussing Watts on demonland it seems that there is an unspoken rule - No one is allowed to mutter any negative words about the kid. There's already an example in this thread, if a post shows the barest hint of any negative comment then s/he will be instantly attacked and flamed until beaten into submission.

The only criticism of Watts to date has been speculation similar to what you have shown. And some of the speculation has lead poster to draw the most amazing conclusions about a player.

In the absence of actual evidence of his playing form, Watts deserves neither protection nor the unwarranted criticism. Lets support or judge Watts on what he actually shows.

He is going to get alot of attention by supporters and rightly so but the penchant for some to delve into make believe in absence of factual information is ridiculous

[Jarka 767]

He is going to get alot of attention by supporters and rightly so but the penchant for some to delve into make believe in absence of factual information is ridiculous

You say this as if your surprised.

As my post tried to explain this is the lift of a no.1 pick, unfairly as it seems, and as I predicted (and in typical fashion) the responses become personal when discussing Watts.

RR, thanks for fulfilling my prophecy

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

You say this as if your surprised.

As my post tried to explain this is the lift of a no.1 pick, unfairly as it seems, and as I predicted (and in typical fashion) the responses become personal when discussing Watts.

RR, thanks for fulfilling my prophecy

Not surprised at all.

And there is nothing personal at all in this.

The only statements made about Watts to date have been founded on pure speculation in absence of the facts. And just because such behaviour follows a No 1 pick or indeed any other pick does not mean we should accept or condone it.

[2014-Flag 0]

I think we are too hard on this guy. Jack Watts will be another David Neitz and will be as important in Demaon history as Neitz is he anywhere lives up to his potential both as a player and a leader(yes i believe he is that good). Since arriving at the Demons, as far as we can tell, he has conducted himself impeccably,trained hard, and bulked up over the last 12 months in preparation for the contest ahead. But, and it is a big but, he is only just 18. We should all encourage him, not knock him, and look forward to his developing into an A-grader in the next couple of years, where he has the potential to dominate in the same way that Neitz dominated and was a magnificant physical force in the team (a charactaristic we currently lack in our players).

Remember, Nick Riewolt hardly played in his first year at St. Kilda, and took several seasons before he became a dominat player. Watts is no different, but has the potential to be just as good.

[Disco Demons 92]

others have said it...but man the season can't start soon enough!...some interesting reading though

[beelzebub 23,376]

others have said it...but man the season can't start soon enough!...

amen !!!!

the masses have gone stir-crazy in the off season

roll on game 1

[Guest Scattsgove]

Time and patience. He's and 18 year old with the potential to be an absolute star. We all know he can make it, but it's not going to happen overnight.

[Akum 2,660]

Does me a lot of good to see such an intelligent thread about Jack Watts, coming with such a great OP.

I've been bagged a few times for standing up for Jack, but the only posts I have problems with are those that indulge in the sort of speculations that RR refers to. I have no problems whatsoever with posters expressing concerns or reservations about Jack, or even criticising him for something that's happened. This is what S_T & Jarka have done in this thread, and I fully agree with them that if it ever becomes unacceptable on this forum to post anything negative about Jack, we lose something essential.

But there's a world of difference between criticising or expressing a concern about a player - any player - for something that they've done (for example, avoiding a physical contest on one occasion), and speculating that this somehow "proves" that their whole attitude is wrong - that they're not fully committed, or not prepared to give 100% on the ground or to do the right thing for the team etc etc. That's where I draw the line, for any player. Jack seems to cop more of the "speculation" than other young players, though Cale Morton gets a bit too; it doesn't need to happen to this year's newbies.

In particular, if any poster calls into question a player's commitment, they should expect to get "called" for it and asked to justify it, IMO. In this thread, S_T & Jarka have IMO expressed concerns about Jack (and done it very carefully - in fact, perhaps more carefully than they needed to) without resorting to speculation; that's the way to do it.

[2014-Flag 0]

I think we are too hard on this guy. Jack Watts will be another David Neitz and will be as important in Demaon history as Neitz is he anywhere lives up to his potential both as a player and a leader(yes i believe he is that good). Since arriving at the Demons, as far as we can tell, he has conducted himself impeccably,trained hard, and bulked up over the last 12 months in preparation for the contest ahead. But, and it is a big but, he is only just 18. We should all encourage him, not knock him, and look forward to his developing into an A-grader in the next couple of years, where he has the potential to dominate in the same way that Neitz dominated and was a magnificant physical force in the team (a charactaristic we currently lack in our players).

Remember, Nick Riewolt hardly played in his first year at St. Kilda, and took several seasons before he became a dominat player. Watts is no different, but has the potential to be just as good.

It should not be under estimated either the importance of drafting in 2008 the best young classy big man avaiable. One who can dominate key positions in the way that Carey, Neitz, Brown and especially David Schwartz in his early days - surely his knees were one of the greatest tradegies in modern football history. Was destined to be better than Carey. I do not believe you can consistently win finals without several dominant key position big men. We need another.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Does me a lot of good to see such an intelligent thread about Jack Watts, coming with such a great OP.

I've been bagged a few times for standing up for Jack, but the only posts I have problems with are those that indulge in the sort of speculations that RR refers to. I have no problems whatsoever with posters expressing concerns or reservations about Jack, or even criticising him for something that's happened. This is what S_T & Jarka have done in this thread, and I fully agree with them that if it ever becomes unacceptable on this forum to post anything negative about Jack, we lose something essential.

But there's a world of difference between criticising or expressing a concern about a player - any player - for something that they've done (for example, avoiding a physical contest on one occasion), and speculating that this somehow "proves" that their whole attitude is wrong - that they're not fully committed, or not prepared to give 100% on the ground or to do the right thing for the team etc etc.

Given the lack of substantive evidence on Watts form, its all speculation. Whether you criticise him or eulogise him, what its actually based? Random titbits of information that represent no significant basis for assessment. There is alot of hope and expectation on him. Some of its unrealistic at this stage of his career. And we hope but dont know if he is going to be the next big thing for MFC up forward. Lets see just what he delivers.

[Pauly Walnuts 2]

Does me a lot of good to see such an intelligent thread about Jack Watts, coming with such a great OP.

Sorry to prove you wrong. Well, only partially contributing to you being wrong - per below.

He hasn't touched any booze since Christmas, In fact when his young 18 mates go out drinking who do you think drives them, Thats right JACK. That's a pretty hard thing to do as a 18 year old.

Does that make him the deesignated driver?

I agree with all who have posted about giving Jack more time to prove himself and perform.

Watt's another year?

[Hellaintabadplacetobe 4,294]

I think we are too hard on this guy. Jack Watts will be another David Neitz and will be as important in Demaon history as Neitz is he anywhere lives up to his potential both as a player and a leader(yes i believe he is that good). Since arriving at the Demons, as far as we can tell, he has conducted himself impeccably,trained hard, and bulked up over the last 12 months in preparation for the contest ahead. But, and it is a big but, he is only just 18. We should all encourage him, not knock him, and look forward to his developing into an A-grader in the next couple of years, where he has the potential to dominate in the same way that Neitz dominated and was a magnificant physical force in the team (a charactaristic we currently lack in our players).

Remember, Nick Riewolt hardly played in his first year at St. Kilda, and took several seasons before he became a dominat player. Watts is no different, but has the potential to be just as good.

Far too much common sense for this thread 2F.

Well said mate!

[Salems Lot 2,535]

Far too much common sense for this thread 2F.

Well said mate!

As I have mentioned in a previous thread, I live next door to one of the Toiges recruiting officers. Up until last year he was our South Australian recruiting officer and around draft time I asked him if he had the choice between Scully or Watts as number one pick who would he take. Without missing a beat he said Watts. We have seen the potential that Scully has so I take that as high praise for young Jack.

[Jarka 767]

Does me a lot of good to see such an intelligent thread about Jack Watts, coming with such a great OP.

I've been bagged a few times for standing up for Jack, but the only posts I have problems with are those that indulge in the sort of speculations that RR refers to. I have no problems whatsoever with posters expressing concerns or reservations about Jack, or even criticising him for something that's happened. This is what S_T & Jarka have done in this thread, and I fully agree with them that if it ever becomes unacceptable on this forum to post anything negative about Jack, we lose something essential.

But there's a world of difference between criticising or expressing a concern about a player - any player - for something that they've done (for example, avoiding a physical contest on one occasion), and speculating that this somehow "proves" that their whole attitude is wrong - that they're not fully committed, or not prepared to give 100% on the ground or to do the right thing for the team etc etc. That's where I draw the line, for any player. Jack seems to cop more of the "speculation" than other young players, though Cale Morton gets a bit too; it doesn't need to happen to this year's newbies.

In particular, if any poster calls into question a player's commitment, they should expect to get "called" for it and asked to justify it, IMO. In this thread, S_T & Jarka have IMO expressed concerns about Jack (and done it very carefully - in fact, perhaps more carefully than they needed to) without resorting to speculation; that's the way to do it.

Just to set the record straight, I didn't actually post anything that suggested that I have concerns with Watts, I was merely trying to paint the whole picture and to give an explanation as to where some attitudes may have come from.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

As I have mentioned in a previous thread, I live next door to one of the Toiges recruiting officers. Up until last year he was our South Australian recruiting officer and around draft time I asked him if he had the choice between Scully or Watts as number one pick who would he take. Without missing a beat he said Watts. We have seen the potential that Scully has so I take that as high praise for young Jack.

and then you have Trenners who we rated as equal no.1, Morton who is clearly in the best few of his draft, Jurrah who is the biggest freak in the laegue and came from absolutely nowhere and Frank Grimes, courtesy of an inspired Bailey trade and a fortituious and inexplicable slip into the late first round. That's 6 players whom you would have massive tickets on making something special of themselves. Pretty friggin special few drafts we've just had.

[rpfc 28,429]

Yeah, I want him to fail...

I hate some of our supporters sometimes.

Kid's going to be special, but that doesn't mean I won't pass along info on our great hope - good, bad, or indifferent.

Think before you type.

[Guest Rojik of the Arctic]

Yeah, I want him to fail...

I hate some of our supporters sometimes.

Kid's going to be special, but that doesn't mean I won't pass along info on our great hope - good, bad, or indifferent.

Think before you type.

You've nailed it pretty well. Everyone posts asking "how is he?", "How did he train?" or "Is he being a good boy?" but if they get an honest opinion then they pull their hair out and attack anyone who might raise a question on how he is faring.

FWIW I don't expect a lot from Jack this year, and I don't think that next year will be the coming of the messiah, but I see a lot of promise in the boy for 2012 onwards. I just hope the kid doesn't read this thread (and others like it) and start second guessing himself.

[Sir Why You Little 37,036]

You've nailed it pretty well. Everyone posts asking "how is he?", "How did he train?" or "Is he being a good boy?" but if they get an honest opinion then they pull their hair out and attack anyone who might raise a question on how he is faring.

FWIW I don't expect a lot from Jack this year, and I don't think that next year will be the coming of the messiah, but I see a lot of promise in the boy for 2012 onwards. I just hope the kid doesn't read this thread (and others like it) and start second guessing himself.

FWIW let us not forget that Dustin Fletcher & James Hird both played in the 93 Premiership with a Bunch of no names kids....just a thought.

Too much talk of keeping players in cotton wool around here, that is not to say they shouldn't be looked after but hey Jack was picked up as the number 1 draft pick because he is good at playing footy-so i want to see some of that next year.

[Guest Rojik of the Arctic]

FWIW let us not forget that Dustin Fletcher & James Hird both played in the 93 Premiership with a Bunch of no names kids....just a thought.

Too much talk of keeping players in cotton wool around here, that is not to say they shouldn't be looked after but hey Jack was picked up as the number 1 draft pick because he is good at playing footy-so i want to see some of that next year.

Fair call but how many "baby bomber" teams have won a flag? The point is that the whole football world - from the media to the club to the supporters - have put undue pressure on a kid who is expected to be the saviour of what is an ordinary team. Sure we have talent on the way but to expect Jack to do any more than hold his spot and learn his trade this year is not only unrealistic but unfair.

If you name me one 1st round KPP who has set the world alight in their first year I'll give you 3 that haven't but have gone on to make a name for themselves.

But the point is - and I think everyone keeps forgetting this - that Jack is an 18yo who has played 3 games and is now only doing his first preseason (albeit with some restrictions). I saw some good things in his limited game time last year and if a couple more of his leads were honoured we wouldn't be having this chat.

[Sir Why You Little 37,036]

Fair call but how many "baby bomber" teams have won a flag? The point is that the whole football world - from the media to the club to the supporters - have put undue pressure on a kid who is expected to be the saviour of what is an ordinary team. Sure we have talent on the way but to expect Jack to do any more than hold his spot and learn his trade this year is not only unrealistic but unfair.

If you name me one 1st round KPP who has set the world alight in their first year I'll give you 3 that haven't but have gone on to make a name for themselves.

But the point is - and I think everyone keeps forgetting this - that Jack is an 18yo who has played 3 games and is now only doing his first preseason (albeit with some restrictions). I saw some good things in his limited game time last year and if a couple more of his leads were honoured we wouldn't be having this chat.

i agree with all you say, but it still doesn't stop me aiming high.

i have seen enough mediocraty with this team to last 5 lifetimes.

I just want them to aim high, a little above the comfort zone so to speak.

Prove a few Mike Sheahan's of the world wrong.

Most of those boring jerks have still got us down the bottom this year

Nobody gave the New Orleans saints a chance in hell of winning the superbowl this year but they did it.

[jabberwocky 2,301]

Does me a lot of good to see such an intelligent thread about Jack Watts, coming with such a great OP.

I've been bagged a few times for standing up for Jack, but the only posts I have problems with are those that indulge in the sort of speculations that RR refers to. I have no problems whatsoever with posters expressing concerns or reservations about Jack, or even criticising him for something that's happened. This is what S_T & Jarka have done in this thread, and I fully agree with them that if it ever becomes unacceptable on this forum to post anything negative about Jack, we lose something essential.

But there's a world of difference between criticising or expressing a concern about a player - any player - for something that they've done (for example, avoiding a physical contest on one occasion), and speculating that this somehow "proves" that their whole attitude is wrong[/i] - that they're not fully committed, or not prepared to give 100% on the ground or to do the right thing for the team etc etc. That's where I draw the line, for any player. Jack seems to cop more of the "speculation" than other young players, though Cale Morton gets a bit too; it doesn't need to happen to this year's newbies.

In particular, if any poster calls into question a player's commitment, they should expect to get "called" for it and asked to justify it, IMO. In this thread, S_T & Jarka have IMO expressed concerns about Jack (and done it very carefully - in fact, perhaps more carefully than they needed to) without resorting to speculation; that's the way to do it.

It's nice of you to draw the line there, but I cannot find a single post where this is claimed. You have failed to use direct quotes yet again and chose to innacurately paraphrase. What a brave a gallant and defender of Jack Watts you are. You are shadow boxing or like the courageous dragon slayer popping your head around every corner looking for a dragon to slay.

No one said anything "proved" anything. No one claimed they wanted him traded as you suggested in a previous post along with all the other ridiculous claims you made.

I think far too much has been made of this thing. Unfortunately most of it is due to you being hypersensitive on the issue. Please read posts carefully before going off half cocked.

All I saw was a few posters expressing the idea that maybe Jack Watts has some maturing to do and may be still coming to terms with the committement required to be an AFL player. As many have stated, given his age, the fact that he is just a few months out of school, his background etc it's hardly an earth shattering claim and I am sure he isn't on his own.

And if you are going to quote this post don't use words or little phrases out of context. That's shoddy stuff.

For the record I am glad we have Jack Watts and want him to become a champion. I expect our coaching an leadership group to continue to hone him mentally and physically. He comes with an impressive tool kit but for mine I expect only to see glimpses of what he is capable of till 2012.

Edited February 9, 2010 by dandeeman

[jabberwocky 2,301]

In short, I don't think anyone wants Jack Watts to fail. I just think that a few of us need to recognise that the kid has still got a lot of work to do to become a good/great player. I think many demonlanders and possibly the kid himself are coming to terms with that.

[mauriesy 7,296]

for mine I expect only to see glimpses of what he is capable of till 2012.

If it takes four years before we see more than "glimpses", Watts wouldn't have been taken at No. 1. I'd be expecting this year to be one of consolidation and building experience, with some very solid games in 2011.

Judd won a Brownlow in his third year (2004), Reiwoldt won the Saints best and fairest in his second year (2002) and by his fourth year (2004) was All-Australian.