Martin to Ruck the NAB

[beelzebub 22,225]

Martin to shoulder Dees ...

"INJURIES to Melbourne's experienced ruckmen mean that forward Stef Martin could be the club's No.1 ruckman for the NAB Cup...................... "

Seems hes the last...or first man standing at moment. Ought to be interesting if nothing else. He can definitely pinch-hit but we might be a little green in this dept 'til Russian returns

[Redleg 37,716]

Martin to shoulder Dees ...

"INJURIES to Melbourne's experienced ruckmen mean that forward Stef Martin could be the club's No.1 ruckman for the NAB Cup...................... "

Seems hes the last...or first man standing at moment. Ought to be interesting if nothing else. He can definitely pinch-hit but we might be a little green in this dept 'til Russian returns

Sounding like once again we have a number of injured players before the season starts.

[stranga 328]

Sounding like once again we have a number of injured players before the season starts.

Yeah its disappointing. The spate of foot injuries in particular is concerning. Thats 4 or 5 players in the space of 12 months that have had foot problems. Bate will be an important part of our forward structure so i hope he comes good soon. Spewing about Daveys hammy also.

Edited January 29, 2010 by stranga

[Demonator 93]

Yeah its disappointing. The spate of foot injuries in particular is concerning. Thats 4 or 5 players in the space of 12 months that have had foot problems. Bate will be an important part of our forward structure so i hope he comes good soon. Spewing about Daveys hammy also.

Would it have something to do with the deck they're training on?! Being up here in Brissy, I haven't had a chance to get along and have a look at Casey Fields, so maybe someone can let me know what the condition of the track is like?!

[DirtyDees DDC 171]

It looks like none of our designated ruckmen are fit. The report fills in a few gaps and explains why Jamar was training away from the rest of the group. Jamar had similar problems last year. I wonder if this is a reason why he was only given a one-year contract?

Bate mentions that Max Gawn might be given a chance but this is unlikely. A previous report had Max as a non starter till mid year due to his knee operation from last year. No mention was made of Fitzpatrick but he's another who hasn't been training with the main group.

This may be a terrific opportunity for Martin to step up. He's been played everywhere from defence to attack to the ruck, so now he can push for a permanent position in the side as the first or second ruckman.

What happens if Martin Breaks down? The next tallest player is Watts so possibly the only other option as a ruckman is Miller. That would be ironic considering the criticism we received for playing Miller in the ruck against Richmond last year.

[Neita3000 37]

Perhaps we should have taken a punt on some lumbering VFL hack? Hawthorn/Wayde Skipper style?

[JACKATTACK 17]

Perhaps we should have taken a punt on some lumbering VFL hack? Hawthorn/Wayde Skipper style?

What is it with the foot injuries, seems like our whole ruck department is suffereing from some kind of foot complaint.

It will be a tough start to the season it seems.

[Strawbsodwyer 0]

What is it with the foot injuries, seems like our whole ruck department is suffereing from some kind of foot complaint.

It will be a tough start to the season it seems.

I blame Bohdan Babijczuk ever since he has been at the Club our injury list has been a disgusting. No wonder the Hawks were keen to get rid of him. Very dissapointing, we cannot be competetive with Martin as our sole ruckman

[Bates Mate 3,894]

I blame Bohdan Babijczuk ever since he has been at the Club our injury list has been a disgusting. No wonder the Hawks were keen to get rid of him. Very dissapointing, we cannot be competetive with Martin as our sole ruckman

the Blame Bohdan calls have started later than usual this year

[Strawbsodwyer 0]

it is a consistent theme sadly because since he has been there we have been consistently riddled with injuries, broken arms, legs etc are not his fault but when we are dealing with stress fractures and hamstrings then consideration must be given to what the fitness staff, of which Bodan is a part of, are doing?

[Akum 2,660]

What I like about Martin in the ruck is that with his athleticism he has the potential (there's that word again) to give us a lot more drive around the ground, while hopefully holding his own at stoppages.

On the other hand, this spate of entirely preventable injuries occurring preseason is very disconcerting (even if it may be related to the players being so fired up that they're pushing too hard). Doesn't exactly promote confidence in the club's fitness management.

Edited January 29, 2010 by Akum

[Lost Highway 31]

On the other hand, this spate of entirely preventable injuries occurring preseason is very disconcerting (even if it may be related to the players being so fired up that they're pushing too hard). Doesn't exactly promote confidence in the club's fitness management.

It's one thing to criticise Bohdan B. for what might be some poor work at two clubs, but to claim wildly that the club has had a 'spate of entirely preventable injuries' is another. How do you propose to 'prevent' injuries? Scrap pre-season training, match-practice, gym work, NAB cup participation etc. altogether? The real season is still two months away; by that time the team might have fewer injured players, it might have more. If you know how to circumvent nature's laws and the role of chance, you ought to become very wealthy, Akum.

[Lord Travis 10,178]

It's a good opportunity for Martin to cement his spot in the team. He has been played in various positions, but we are still unsure which he will make his own. I'm of the opinion that a player needs to cement a certain position and stick to it, I don't like the "versatility" crap that gets thrown about. I understand it's good to trial young players in different positions, but sooner or later they need to be given one and given a chance to shine there or they'll end up like Lynden Dunn; talented, adequate in various roles, but ultimately not cementing there spot after years and staring down the barrel despite talent and athleticism.

I hope Martin uses his speed and athleticism for his side and really shows something in the ruck. It sounds like we're going to need it with all the injuries to our ruckmen

[BAMF 3,787]

Spencer has lost 11kg? That's terrible news!

Maybe we might see a very raw Fitzpatrick in the nab cup.

Would have preferred Martin played forward NAB Cup

[Redleg 37,716]

Would it have something to do with the deck they're training on?! Being up here in Brissy, I haven't had a chance to get along and have a look at Casey Fields, so maybe someone can let me know what the condition of the track is like?!

Casey has a great surface, so it would be something else.

[Viney Vidi Vici 110]

for those thinking of fitzpatrick, he really doesn't look ready for AFL yet. not quite up to speed at the moment.

[Akum 2,660]

It's one thing to criticise Bohdan B. for what might be some poor work at two clubs, but to claim wildly that the club has had a 'spate of entirely preventable injuries' is another. How do you propose to 'prevent' injuries?

LH, I see your point, and my statement may seem harsh. But the problem can no longer be overlooked. The article about Stef linked in the OP does say that "Melbourne has been hit with a string of serious foot injuries over the last 12 months" and mentions Jamar, Johnson, Meesen, Spencer (all of our 4 experienced rucks), Garland and now Bate who all have stress fractures of the foot. It also mentions Davey & Wona who have hamstring injuries. To have a fifth of our list (8 out of 40), including 3 or 4 of our most valuable, off the track with strain injuries before a ball's been kicked in anger is a concern; that's not something other clubs have. Sure, the collision-type injuries that occur during a game are not preventable, but these strain-type injuries really can be prevented.

The factors that cause foot stress fractures are well known, and include things like doing too much running on hard surfaces in inadequate footwear without the proper warm up. It's no coincidence too that it's some of our biggest players who have the stress fractures.

I wasn't actually thinking of Bohdan by the way; these injuries may well have happened outside the club's training times, when players do some work on their own. It seems likely that these big guys have been working so damn hard to improve their aerobic fitness that they've pushed too hard and made some simple but easily overlooked mistakes, possibly without the club even being aware of it until the stress fracture is diagnosed.

On the credit side, we seem to have put behind us that run of OP (osteitis pubis) that we had a while ago, an injury that's also preventable. This must have been due to the right measures being put in place by our fitness staff, and we'd all like to think that OP is now a thing of the past at MFC; I can't recall an OP injury for a couple of seasons now. If there's a number of players with the same overuse injury at the same club, efforts are needed to identify the common factors and deal with them, rather than just ignore it or pass it off as somebody else's problem. I fully expect that measures will be put in place - in particular for the big guys, and in particular for the work they do in their own time, if that's the problem - so that foot stress fractures too can become a thing of the past.

Sure, this is all so much easier in hindsight; it's only when you get a certain number of the same injury that the penny drops. But they need to get onto it, and a.s.a.p. The fact that Bate, who by all accounts has put on a bit of size, has a similar injury to the ones from last season, means that the lessons hadn't been learnt up to a few weeks ago! At least he seems to have reported it very early so it won't be as severe or prolonged as Garland, for example. But if we get another foot strain injury, especially another stress fracture, it means that the right lessons still haven't been learnt, and questions really will need to be asked. It's essential that Bater is our last foot injury of this nature.

So yes, this spate of preventable injuries is disconcerting. It's what happens now that's important. If Bohdan was responsible for seeing off OP, this shouldn't be a problem.

[Bring-Back-Powell 13,246]

Arr a sizeable injury list...it wouldn't be a day in the life of the MFC without it.

In other news it we lose to Freo in week 1 of the NAB, we'll playing WCE or Ess at Visy the following Saturday arvo. Hopefully we can sell heaps of memberships that day.

[Keyser Söze 0]

LH, I see your point, and my statement may seem harsh. But the problem can no longer be overlooked. The article about Stef linked in the OP does say that "Melbourne has been hit with a string of serious foot injuries over the last 12 months" and mentions Jamar, Johnson, Meesen, Spencer (all of our 4 experienced rucks), Garland and now Bate who all have stress fractures of the foot.

Ridiculous. Bate doesn't even have a 'hot spot' - he only has a little soreness and they are resting him slightly to prevent even that. We have the luxury of being able to do so, having started preseason earlier.

This is exactly the sort of prevention you are begging for and you are mistaking it for an injury.

Johnson and Spencer never had stress fractures either - a 'foot inury' can mean many things.

It also mentions Davey & Wona who have hamstring injuries. To have a fifth of our list (8 out of 40), including 3 or 4 of our most valuable, off the track with strain injuries before a ball's been kicked in anger is a concern; that's not something other clubs have. Sure, the collision-type injuries that occur during a game are not preventable, but these strain-type injuries really can be prevented.

hamstring strains are a concern? 2 from the entire group? Really??

And its not even like they are bad tears and are unable to train - they are just training lightly to manage a minor injury.

The factors that cause foot stress fractures are well known, and include things like doing too much running on hard surfaces in inadequate footwear without the proper warm up. It's no coincidence too that it's some of our biggest players who have the stress fractures.

This is incorrect. Stress injuries occur due to 'unusual or repeated' stress. Often the cause is poor running technique or muscle fatigue (when the runner is tired and the muscles are no longer being used to fully cushion the impact).

This is why we see so many of our players being forced to join the rehab group for a session and give their bodies a rest, in spite of feeling full of beans.

To say that the warmup has anything to do with it is wrong.

I wasn't actually thinking of Bohdan by the way; these injuries may well have happened outside the club's training times, when players do some work on their own. It seems likely that these big guys have been working so damn hard to improve their aerobic fitness that they've pushed too hard and made some simple but easily overlooked mistakes, possibly without the club even being aware of it until the stress fracture is diagnosed.

Pure speculation.

On the credit side, we seem to have put behind us that run of OP (osteitis pubis) that we had a while ago, an injury that's also preventable. This must have been due to the right measures being put in place by our fitness staff, and we'd all like to think that OP is now a thing of the past at MFC; I can't recall an OP injury for a couple of seasons now. If there's a number of players with the same overuse injury at the same club, efforts are needed to identify the common factors and deal with them, rather than just ignore it or pass it off as somebody else's problem. I fully expect that measures will be put in place - in particular for the big guys, and in particular for the work they do in their own time, if that's the problem - so that foot stress fractures too can become a thing of the past.

OP is now much better understood throughout the industry and standard practices are in place for prevention and management. You barely hear of it at any club now.

That is mostly because it is caught early and managed and if players need time off they miss with a 'groin strain' so as to avoid the fear merchants who jump out at the sound of OP.

Sure, this is all so much easier in hindsight; it's only when you get a certain number of the same injury that the penny drops. But they need to get onto it, and a.s.a.p. The fact that Bate, who by all accounts has put on a bit of size, has a similar injury to the ones from last season, means that the lessons hadn't been learnt up to a few weeks ago! At least he seems to have reported it very early so it won't be as severe or prolonged as Garland, for example. But if we get another foot strain injury, especially another stress fracture, it means that the right lessons still haven't been learnt, and questions really will need to be asked. It's essential that Bater is our last foot injury of this nature.

So yes, this spate of preventable injuries is disconcerting. It's what happens now that's important. If Bohdan was responsible for seeing off OP, this shouldn't be a problem.

Once again, Bate has not been injured. Garland, Jamar and Meesen are the only 3 who have had stress fractures, and they, like some of our other players who had offseason surgery, are still in rehab.

Nothing strange about that.

Injuries happen at a football club. Always have and always will.

It is common for players to have cleanouts and niggles fixed by surgery as soon as the season finishes, and hence, still be in rehab now.

Limiting the severity, frequency and the recurrence of these injuries is the important thing. It seems injury management and prevention is being mistaken for new injuries here.

[titan_uranus 22,462]

Disappointing for a number of reasons, primarily (for me) it prevents us from playing Martin forward, where I think he is best suited.

Hope Jamar's foot doesn't screw him up this year. This could be a good year for him.

I don't know how Gawn and Fitzpatrick are doing but if these injuries are serious then maybe one of them could find themselves in the red and blue a lot earlier than we thought they might.

[Whispering_Jack 28,005]

The NAB Cup provides a perfect opportunity for experimenting and I'm all for the idea of giving Stef Martin a run as a ruckman. He fits the prototype of the mobile ruckman that worked successfully for both Brisbane (Clark) and Essendon (Ryder) where the stand ins probably did better than the regular ruckman each of them replaced. Martin should still have back up in the form of Mark Jamar and Jake Spencer who should be recovered enough in 3 weeks' time to be able to get through about 25% of game time each first up. There's a few others who could pinch hit if needed - like Brad Miller.

[Lost Highway 31]

So yes, this spate of preventable injuries is disconcerting. It's what happens now that's important. If Bohdan was responsible for seeing off OP, this shouldn't be a problem.

Thanks for your long response, Akum. At the end of which you are still using the word 'preventable'. I would prefer to think of all that you are talking about as 'risk minimisation'. I also think you are over-stating the problem somewhat, as Keyser has pointed out. Garland is the most obvious serious injury; Meesen's has persisted for a long time. Jamar has been injury prone for years, and this is the biggest drawback to the only ruckman in the team who shows he can hold his own with any in the comp at the bounces, take a mark, and kick straight; yet it sounds as though he will be right for round 1 if rested in the NAB. I suspect Bate is in no different a position from many other players in the competition, who are taking it easy regarding a repetitive stress complaint of some sort. Marting might make a reasonable ruck back-up. Better than Meesen, Spencer and Johnson, perhaps. But it does remain a worry that the ruck reserve stocks will be paper-thin for some time, as Gawn and Fitzpatrick gain weight, condition and experience in the VFL.

[Akum 2,660]

...

KS, you have a unique talent for major bickering about side issues and missing the main point. Tho' maybe that's my fault for such long posts. But I think this is an important issue.

Which in this case is that we have had more than our share of "foot injuries" of whatever severity over the past couple of years, but that I have enough confidence in the club's fitness staff to believe that Bate will be where the line is drawn.

I think the club's made great progress with its injury management, and according to the pictures from last Friday, with its player preparation. But there's prevention of injuries too. From the team point of view, if we're getting more than our fair share of a certain type of injury, we need to work out whether there's anything can be done to improve the situation. OK, you're right that Bate has "foot soreness" while Garland has (or had) a "stress fracture", but the same or similar factors are behind both injuries. Foot stress fractures all start off as persisting "foot soreness" that is passed off as just another niggle. Bate, to his credit, just picked up on it much earlier, well before it got to the stress fracture stage, and you're right, his injury management is a lot easier as a result.

However, the club now has 6 players that can be (and probably already have been) interviewed about their how their foot injuries started and what else might have been happening at the time. As you say, there are always reasons why stress injuries occur. There are bound to be factors that these players will have in common, some of which will be obvious (i.e. they're all big guys) and some of which will be less obvious, and will have to be uncovered by careful questioning along the lines of known causative factors for this particular injury. These factors are likely to be correctible, sometimes easily, so that the injury can be prevented in other players. As you rightly state, when the causative factors for OP were uncovered, now nobody gets OP any more. Yes, I was "speculating" on some of the factors that may be pertinent; these and other possibilities are some of the things that need to be specifically asked about.

Look KS, I'm on your side. I'm confident that the fitness staff will handle this. The fact that Bate picked up on it so much earlier probably means that they're working on it already. And they'd be much better at this sort of thing than me; it's their bread & butter.

Except that if we do get another injury of a similar nature, well that's when questions do need to be asked. But not before. Let's see what happens.

Edited January 31, 2010 by Akum

[Demonator 93]

Casey has a great surface, so it would be something else.

Thanks for the feedback Redleg! From what I had heard, that's what I thought!