Delistings

[The Fergburger 0]

Bell signed a two year deal at the end of the year. He wont be delisted.

Dunn at this rate will should be delisted. Unless he turns his career around (by playing up forward where he looks at his best) his time will be up. Otherwise its too early to make any decisions coz its only round 7.

[titan_uranus 25,019]

There is no way we would take the minimum three picks. That's laughable, even in a thin draft. Picks 1, 2, 18ish, and pass on pick 34? No draft is thin enough to be passing in the very early third round, and I really don't think our list is strong enough to be passing at that point. It'd be close to the earliest pass of all time.

Agree. We should use another 5 or 6 picks this year.

Cheney's pace is not that great and i think the small/medium sized backs in our team should have pace. Do not think there is room in our team for him.

I think that's being a little harsh on a 2-game kid who, let's be honest, played pretty well in Round 1. I'd be upset to see him get the flick if we kept any of Bell, Dunn or Bate. Not every AFL player needs to have speed. I think Cheney showed enough to be persisted with.

[dee-luded 2,959]

I agree that this year's delistings are going to be tough. Apparently Dunn and Bell are contracted as well -- these two would've been first cabs off the rank IMO. Pretty sure Newton also got two years at the end of last season, much to the bemusement of many.

I don't think we'd want to have any less than 6 draft picks in this year's draft, but how do we come up with 6 spaces?

- Junior (retire)

- Whelan (delist)

- Wheatley? (delist)

- McNamara (delist)

Additionally, we need to find a spot on the list for Spencer IMO, so that takes the number we need to clear off up to 7.

Would there be any takers for 'freebie' trade in the 100s for Bell or Dunn? I don't know that too many clubs would be all that interested, but I think we'd need to give it a shot.

Wheatley would also be stiff to be delisted, but again I think we're out of options.

I reckon list management is going to be tough at the end of this season.

I don't think we'd want to have any less than 6 draft picks in this year's draft, but how do we come up with 6 spaces? Agreed!

- Junior (1 YR)

- Bruce, things are getting tight, (there is no more upside here).

- Whelan (delist) > Keep at Casey as a assistant.

- Wheatley? (delist)

- McNamara (Keep)

- PJ . is on shaky ground

- Jamar, keep as No 3 ruck.

- Bell, seek a trade.

- Dunn, seek a trade.

- Newton, seek a trade.

- Robertson, (1 YR)

- Sylvia, (listen to any offers) (I want to keep).

[Einstein 1]

This is one of those threads that is reflective of our limited potential to win games this season and our eagerness to get on with the winning from next season on.

We want the future and we want it now. (As ruthless as we may be.)

So I will play along.......

Retirements-

Macca, almost certainly.

Whelan, depends how his body holds up for the rest of the season, but his days are coming to an end.

Delistings-

Jamar, isn't going to get any better. Times up.

Wheatley, can't see where he fits with our future plans. Will have to really show something when he gets his body right or he is done.

Possible delistings-

Bell, on the outside looking in. Has been around for a while now and in 63 games has been good at best. Time is ticking. Has to make an impact in the remainder of '09 or he could well be gone.

Other potential delistings, Newton, Dunn, depending on contract status.

Buckley WONT be delisted. Yes, he is frustrating but he is 6'3" and can run run run. Has to improve his disposal but still has plenty of upside. Hopefully he can show a bit of development in the remainder of '09. He should avoid the axe.

This is a difficult task without knowing each and every players contract status, not to mention there still being 15 games to play in '09.

Will be interesting to see how and if opinions change over the next four months.

[Hazyshadeofgrinter 80]

How does it work with the salary cap? I imagine the player you have paid out is still counted towards your salary cap, so you're essentially paying for two players when you've got one playing. That doesn't sound very realistic or inexpensive to me.

Not to mention the negative impact doing that all the time would have on the players remaining on your list.

See my edit above. I have added an explanation for you.

p.s. I don't buy your "negative impact" line.

[mo64 5,874]

These type of threads are really getting up my nose. So much talk of delisting and IT"S ONLY RND 7

Finally, a voice of reason. And I find this post ironic on 2 counts:

1. The masses who lauded McDonald's appointment as captain, want him pensioned off after 7 rounds.

2. The masses who bleat on about how bad our list is, are struggling to find players to delist other than proven elder statesmen in Wheatley and Whelan, or contracted players in Dunn, Bell and Newton.

[Roost It 1,434]

Finally, a voice of reason. And I find this post ironic on 2 counts:

1. The masses who lauded McDonald's appointment as captain, want him pensioned off after 7 rounds.

2. The masses who bleat on about how bad our list is, are struggling to find players to delist other than proven elder statesmen in Wheatley and Whelan, or contracted players in Dunn, Bell and Newton.

1. We don't want him pentioned off, just to retire at the end of the year rather than play 1 year too many like a previous captain and champion of the club.

2. Wheatley is no proven elder statesmen and Whelan's body is more unreliable than a Renault Fuego. I also think you'll find that the "masses" are quite happy with the position of the list.

[Steamin Demon 392]

Disregarding payouts of contracts and stuff like that my list would be as follows;

IN ORDER:

1. Bate (Simply hopeless) We would be lucky to get a second round pick.

2. Wheatley (Getting older and with injuries I think his best is past him.)

3. McDonald (Been a brillant servant but the game has passed him IMO.)

4. My man Wrecker, It hurts to say but again I don't think he can get back, With so much young talent coming through. I would love him to stay at the club in a mentoring role though.

Lydan Dunn must be hanging on by a thread.

[Al`s DEMONS 0]

Boy! It is still so early in the season, some of these guys, like Wheels, Wheatly and Bell have not even played this year. They are considered as senior players, I posted the players ages some weeks ago, if we get rid of every one of these guys, all we will have is 18 to 22 yo's. Lets wait another 10 more games to give all a chance before we start talking about delistings. I like you want to be the next Geelong, but we need to see how each guy fits into the new look team, and our depth has to be strong. We can not afford to have a fantastic starting 22 with out a strong 20 others to choose from, as our luck with injuries shows. I have a few players in mind that need to lift their game, but bring up their name at this poit in time means nothing.

Also dont forget that the GC side will be looking to rape a few sides, I just hope that we keep all our gun players.

18-22 yo`s, clearly not working for the Bombers, Bailey is not hiding any kids , his plan is to bring these guys through together, must get contract extension

[Adam The God 30,259]

I was having a look through our list and I was surprised how difficult it was to find people that we may delist at the end of the year. Although these people might prove me wrong I think the following might be on their last legs with the d's

Bell

Buckley

Whelan

If we are able to snare butcher in the draft then Newton would be a very good chance to go as well.

If it does pan out as muted above, I would really hope that we keep Whelan around the club. He has been fantastic for the young guys espically the aboriginal players, he would be great as a development coach.

I'd keep Buckley. He showed last year that he could well be useful in the future, playing the role that currently Flash is playing.

As for Wheels, keep him. Let him serve out his career, but I wouldn't be against the delisting of Belly. He's a trier, but ultimately not good enough. We have to be ruthless. I'd also agree on the Newton issue. Although, Newton signed a new two year contract during last season, so we'd have to pay him out. In our financial situation, we'd be better off holding onto him for an extra season, letting him serve out his contract, giving him an occasional game and if he doesn't sure anything delist him. If however, on the other hand he shows something, then we could reassess then.

A lot of people don't like having these discussions mid season, but personally, list management is my favourite topic.

I agree that this year's delistings are going to be tough. Apparently Dunn and Bell are contracted as well -- these two would've been first cabs off the rank IMO. Pretty sure Newton also got two years at the end of last season, much to the bemusement of many.

I don't think we'd want to have any less than 6 draft picks in this year's draft, but how do we come up with 6 spaces?

- Junior (retire)

- Whelan (delist)

- Wheatley? (delist)

- McNamara (delist)

Additionally, we need to find a spot on the list for Spencer IMO, so that takes the number we need to clear off up to 7.

Would there be any takers for 'freebie' trade in the 100s for Bell or Dunn? I don't know that too many clubs would be all that interested, but I think we'd need to give it a shot.

At the moment I would think Buckley would be in the gun. At his stage of development I'd prefer to keep him, but I think we may not have any choice other than delisting him. It's a pity to delist one of our only line breakers, but space are at a premium now and we need to get rid of someone. Can we delist and then rookie him? Also, what happens if McNamara comes in over the next few weeks and plays well? What if Junior decides to go on?

Wheatley would also be stiff to be delisted, but again I think we're out of options.

I reckon list management is going to be tough at the end of this season.

I think you'd keep Wheatley, as he'd be in the top two or three kicks in our side. He's also a berometre for us as well, in some ways. Particularly over the past two seasons, whenever he's played, we played reasonably well. Without him, we were always horrible. Due mostly to the fact he kicks over zones and so fourth...does our long term plan involve that though? Bailey's plan seems to involve ball carrying and handpassing, in order to break zonal lines, instead of kicking over the top of them. That said, Paul is quick, tall (probably not strong enough though) and a beautiful long kick. I'd certainly keep him, at least for another 1 or 2 seasons.

Could list space be achieved at the trade table?

Maybe a premiership contender would consider topping up with Sylvia or Bruce? Best we could hope for would be 3rd round picks but maybe we could package them with a pick to obtain higher picks?

No, I don't think anyone would be giving away their higher picks in such a crucial draft (unless I misunderstood you, Tata?).

With the general consensus being that this years draft is going to be very thin seeing as Gold Coast are getting the 17 year olds I wouldn't be suprised if Melbourne only use the minimum 3 picks in the national draft. So we'd need to clear 5 spots in my opinion. 3 for drafting and 2 to elevate Spencer and Valentti. The people I'd expect to be shown the door would be:

Whelan (enforced retirement)

Jamar (delist)

Bell (delist - I was under the impression he was out of contract at seasons end)

Dunn (trade with pick 18 for higher pick, eg 16. Bulldogs may be interested in someone like Dunn.)

Sylvia (trade with pick obtained for Dunn for higher pick eg 12. Collingwood may be interested in someone like Sylvia)

This could see us with draft picks 1, 2 and 12 for example where we can obtain 3 really good players in what will be a thin draft to go with the bunch of exciting kids we already have.

Oh, Valenti! That's another one. He's shown that he's too slow and although a fantastic VFL player, not quite good enough at the top level. I think I saw enough of him last year to know that his lack of awareness and lack of leg speed (much like Brock unfortunately, but with less going for him) would retard our midfield.

I have only recently been advised from a reliable source that Bell and Dunn are contracted for 2010. I further understand that Meesen is also contracted for 2010

Surely you'd give Meesen another chance? He showed something in the early part of this year, before his injury. The bloke that has continually let himself and the team down is Mark Jamar. That man is massive, if only he had a football brain. We're already a little thin on ruck stocks, so I'd keep PJ, Meesen and Spencer and develop them over the next couple of seasons. Jamar is surely the obvious one to let go....

[H_T 3,047]

I was having a look through our list and I was surprised how difficult it was to find people that we may delist at the end of the year. Although these people might prove me wrong I think the following might be on their last legs with the d's Bell Buckley Whelan

Totally disagree with simon buckley. He has something to offer in my opinion at this point in time.

[Nasher 33,616]

See my edit above. I have added an explanation for you.

Your example makes sense, but it still doesn't change the fact that you're paying for the price of two and getting one. In your case after you've pensioned off A and drafted C, you've got two choices:

- Keep B, miss out on D for a total payment of $500/year

- Pay out B's contact $500 per year, list player D for $200 a year, for a total payment of $700/year

Bear in mind that by this stage, D is a 6th or 7th pick in the draft. Obviously it depends on many things, but how many players of this calibre are going to be worth such a large expense? I imagine that this is why this rarely happens.

p.s. I don't buy your "negative impact" line.

Me neither really, upon reflection.

[Nasher 33,616]

Finally, a voice of reason. And I find this post ironic on 2 counts:

1. The masses who lauded McDonald's appointment as captain, want him pensioned off after 7 rounds.

2. The masses who bleat on about how bad our list is, are struggling to find players to delist other than proven elder statesmen in Wheatley and Whelan, or contracted players in Dunn, Bell and Newton.

In my opinion in order to make the right decisions, a list management comittee should definitely be looking at who might go at years' end right now. I have my opinion on who is in the gun at this exact moment in time. No doubt my opinion will be different at years' end, but that's the beauty of footy. Heaps will change between now and round 22. For me it's just about trying to get a feel for the issues that our list management team will face at the end of the year. I find it interesting. You clearly don't.

re point 1: I believe the McDonald appointment was the correct one. I also believe he should not be on the list next year. Right now, he's our best leader, and an automatic best 22 selection. Next year, with his age and young guns coming through, I don't believe that will be the case any more. It's about adjusting to the current situations. Wanting McDonald as captain this year and wanting him retired next year aren't mutually exclusive. I want both.

re point 2: It's hardly a surprise that the most common names to come up are probably the five least valuable players to us at the moment is it? And your sweeping generalisation is complete nonsense. Please point out in this thread which "masses" have "bleated" on about how bad our list is? All lists need tweaking at years end. Ours is no different. If you think there are better candidates for the chop than any of the above mentioned names, you're welcome to name them.

[rpfc 28,430]

You would be naive to write off the draft as thin at this point. Its easy to be brainwashed by the so called "general consensus" parroting each other without all the facts.

As one of the "brainwashed" I will give you a fact that lends itself to a shallaw draft.

The eligibility age for the draft has increased by 4 months in 2009 and onwards, specifically to give GC17 a greater pool of players to pillage.

From 2009 onwards, those drafted must turn 18 by Dec 31 of the year of the draft. Previously it was 18 by the following April 31.

Looking at basic probability, around a third of the players will be in eligible. If a normal draft sees around 75 youngsters drafted then around 50 would be expected this year.

The smaller talent pool might be weak, meaning 40-50 picks, or it might be strong, meaning 50-60 picks. But it will certainly be less picked than previous drafts.

Of course, my logic presupposes that recruiters are looking for quality of talent rather than simple churning of the list, but I stand by it.

[H_T 3,047]

Being ruthless means cutting Robertson. he's not that good. Buckley would be stiff but it's possible. I also have my doubts about Cheney. What position would he play in? We need a minimum of 6 spots, probably 7. Spencer is likely to be elevated. I'd say valenti will get game time this year but I'd say he'll go, along with Zomer. Tough calls for the club this year. The list is improving.

By all means be ruthless Roost It, but there's no need to cut the hand off that feeds you at present. IMO he is required for next season, if he continues on from the last couple of weeks.

At the moment I put doubt on Whelan for next year. Many believe Junior will retire at season's end. Other than those two for me, it's hard to gauge until you see who is contracted, who is out of contract and the fact we're only 1/3rd of the way through the home & away season. PJ or Jamar could find one of themselves chopped. It's still early days.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

As one of the "brainwashed" I will give you a fact that lends itself to a shallaw draft.

Your fact is a series of assumptions.

I understand what you are saying but each draft year is different and it is best to keep an open mind on the opportunities that may present themselves this year particularly if all other recruiters are "brainwashed".

I hope our recruiting department will not be as dismissive as you are being.

[Roost It 1,434]

By all means be ruthless Roost It, but there's no need to cut the hand off that feeds you at present. IMO he is required for next season, if he continues on from the last couple of weeks.

At the moment I put doubt on Whelan for next year. Many believe Junior will retire at season's end. Other than those two for me, it's hard to gauge until you see who is contracted, who is out of contract and the fact we're only 1/3rd of the way through the home & away season. PJ or Jamar could find one of themselves chopped. It's still early days.

If the club wants to come up with the 6 or 7 spots it'll probably need to keep turning over the list Russell will have to play some pretty impressive footy to get another contract. I have doubts about him fitting into Bailey's medium to long term plan for the team. Yes he offers us some excitement and a few goals each week but is that enough anymore, I'm not so sure.

[MadAsHell 4,212]

Your fact is a series of assumptions.

I understand what you are saying but each draft year is different and it is best to keep an open mind on the opportunities that may present themselves this year particularly if all other recruiters are "brainwashed".

I hope our recruiting department will not be as dismissive as you are being.

How many picks would you be expecting them to use in the national draft RR? You think they'd use for example 1, 2, 18 & 34 and then leave one pick for pre-season draft or would you expect them to draft in more players at national draft?

[Yencks 8]

How many picks would you be expecting them to use in the national draft RR? You think they'd use for example 1, 2, 18 & 34 and then leave one pick for pre-season draft or would you expect them to draft in more players at national draft?

i'd expect that they'd promote 2 rookies at this stage

[Steamin Demon 392]

I see on this thread people are calling for Russell Robertson to be delisted, Are you people Fu#*ing MAD !!! Lets delist our best forward who is only thirty he still has three good years in him. In this time he can help groom and mould our soon to be up coming forwards. Talk of this kind really shits me it is uneducated and pointless. Lets watch the likes of Bate and Dunn in our forward line each week that should be fun !!!!! Any Melbourne supporter who has watched him this week after a year off can see he has plenty to offer. THINK BEFORE YOU SPEAK.

[Roost It 1,434]

I see on this thread people are calling for Russell Robertson to be delisted, Are you people Fu#*ing MAD !!! Lets delist our best forward who is only thirty he still has three good years in him. In this time he can help groom and mould our soon to be up coming forwards. Talk of this kind really shits me it is uneducated and pointless. Lets watch the likes of Bate and Dunn in our forward line each week that should be fun !!!!! Any Melbourne supporter who has watched him this week after a year off can see he has plenty to offer. THINK BEFORE YOU SPEAK.

"help groom and mould are young forwards"

It is you Steamin who is "Fu**ing MAD"

[e25 5]

i'd expect that they'd promote 2 rookies at this stage

2?

I can see Spencer being promoted, but who else?

Valenti is fantastic at VFL level, but he is limited as an AFL player. He'd be a list clogger.

Jordie McKenzie I'd accept, but he needs to show a bit more first.

[mo64 5,874]

In my opinion in order to make the right decisions, a list management comittee should definitely be looking at who might go at years' end right now.

We are 7 weeks into a season. The coaching department should be focussing on getting the best out of the players and player development. If a list management committee (which I assume would include the coach), are discussing the future of players right now, it would undoubtedly influence the team selection process.

The 3 players that everyone is bringing up as being under the gun, Newton, Dunn and Bell, were all re-signed to 2 year deals. As far as their respective careers go, nothing has changed in 7 weeks. They're are all still struggling to command a regular spot in the side. In their cases, what the hell will having a list management committee achieve?

The list management process should commence no earlier than round 16. Recruiting managers would have a true idea as to the depth of the draft and the number of picks required, whilst the list managers would be able to make a fair assessment of where a players' career is at, and which players have potential trade value.

[donny williams no 25 0]

Agree. Out of all the kids, he excites me the least.

Perhaps a delist-rookie scenario may be the go here.

Bloody Hell!

What did he play--3 games?And wasn't he in our best 4 or 5 in round 1. In fact wasn't everyone, coach included, raving about his game? He'd be mighty stiff to be delisted in my view.

Anyone who's on the list this year and doesn't get a few games, assuming he's been available for a reasonable percentage of them, must have been judged by the coach etc, to be no good. Therefore I'd look at Bail and McNamara, unless they get a few games and do alright. We seem to have had no difficulties delisting Weetra last year, though I understood he had a contract for this year.

Having said this, there's also the small matter of the Mc Namee contract--perhaps costly?

[Nasher 33,616]

We are 7 weeks into a season. The coaching department should be focussing on getting the best out of the players and player development. If a list management committee (which I assume would include the coach), are discussing the future of players right now, it would undoubtedly influence the team selection process.

The list management process should commence no earlier than round 16. Recruiting managers would have a true idea as to the depth of the draft and the number of picks required, whilst the list managers would be able to make a fair assessment of where a players' career is at, and which players have potential trade value.

That's the whole point Mo -- list management should affect the team selection process, especially when you're obviously not going to make the finals and are already planning for subsequent seasons. Prudent list management is why, in my opinion, the like of McNamara, Cheney and Valenti should start getting games right about now. Not necessarily a large string of games (unless their form warrants it), but at the very least a few games here and there. It gives them a large amont of time -- ie between now and round 22, to press their case for retaining a spot on the list. The later you leave it in the season to do this, the less of a chance you give them, so the less of an informed decision you make. Round 16 IMO is cutting it far too fine. Round 20 is too late.

The 3 players that everyone is bringing up as being under the gun, Newton, Dunn and Bell, were all re-signed to 2 year deals. As far as their respective careers go, nothing has changed in 7 weeks. They're are all still struggling to command a regular spot in the side. In their cases, what the hell will having a list management committee achieve?

It's simple, you give them the opportunity to get their names out from under the gun. If they can't, then the list management committee will start planning how they're going to manage these players at the end of the year. The options are a] find a suitable trade if possible, even if it's a giveaway trade, b] delist them and pay them out as per hazy's post or c] suck it up and keep them. Just because they're contracted doesn't mean there's no 'management' required. As I said, the further out you begin your information gathering process, the more of an informed decision you can make.

I'm not suggesting that final decisions be made on any player at this stage, because it's obviously too soon for that. I'm saying that now is the time to begin to really assess the future of players.