David Schwartz

[Little Goffy 14,543]

Hi all,

I'm just curious, since I missed out on the 90's having only been properly introduced to AFL around 2000 (lucky charm, I was), with all this hype about Franklin and so on, I had a look back and noticed that David Schwartz closed in on 3 goals a game, and managed 15 brownlow votes playing alongside Garry Lyon in 1994, which was also the season he played just his 50th game.

Then there were two (Three?) knee reconstructions in rapid succession, and he never got back to that level, is what I understand happened.

Anyone care to fill in some details? Some nostalgia to pass on, memories of the days when...

[H_T 3,047]

Three knee re-constructions. Cruel that he was cut down in his prime. The 1st weekend of the '94 finals series against a second placed Carlton with Melbourne having finished 7th was his most memorable game. He turned Peter Dean inside out with a blind turn and bouncing before kicking a goal straight through the middle.

He went on to miss virtually the next 3 seasons. He returned for 2 games in 95, missed 96 before playing 10 games in 97, 18 games in 1998 and then played a full year in '99 winning the Best & Fairest a much 'bulkier' player, and did alot of bullocking in packs for his teammates. Continued to play good footy in 2000 and played in Melbourne's Grand Final loss to Essendon. He put James Hird on his back in aggressive fashion before copping it from Dean Wallis & Co.

173 games. 243 goals. Garry Lyon has stated in the past that he believes David Schwarz was one of, if not the best player at the club in his time.

[deanox 9,915]

ah the early 90's. if ever we should have won a flag. schwartz was flying, lyon at FF, david neitz was our star CHB, so good in fact that carey singled out him and jackovich as his toughest opponents.

if we had of kept them all on the park we would have been a force, but you're right, 3 knee recos ended schwartzs run, and he was never quite the same. lyon had a dodgy back that he eventually succumbed too, and neitz got thrown forward to cover them both.

we could have won it in 94, especially if we didnt have to travel to perth in the prelim, but that is part of finishing 7th. who ever says the old system wasn't as good as the new system just needs to look at the finals from that year. we were good enough to knock carlton off week 1 and were rewarded with a home final. gary lyon went nuts against the doggies and kicked a bag.

any chances of a dynasty went out the window with the injuries. other teams get a few years together with their best players, we only got the 1 and schwartz and neitz were still very young.

[deanox 9,915]

Garry Lyon has stated in the past that he believes David Schwarz was one of, if not the best player at the club in his time.

would have been close to the carey league imo if he had of kept going the way he was...

[Redleg 40,919]

if we had of kept them all on the park we would have been a force, but you're right, 3 knee recos ended schwartzs run, and he was never quite the same. lyon had a dodgy back that he eventually succumbed too, and neitz got thrown forward to cover them both.

How many players have we lost to injury over the years? Ox, Lyon, Jakovich, Prymke, Dean, Charles, Pickett, Rivers, Robbo, Davey, McLean, Moloney, Whelan, etc, etc, etc.

[H_T 3,047]

if we had of kept them all on the park we would have been a force, but you're right, 3 knee recos ended schwartzs run, and he was never quite the same. lyon had a dodgy back that he eventually succumbed too, and neitz got thrown forward to cover them both.

1994 we were close. We came up against the Premiers that year in West Coast. 1998 was the year for me with Neitz, Lyon, Schwarz and Farmer and not to mention a young Russell Robertson. But it was not to be unfortunately, we met the Kangaroos in full flight. We entered that final series after a thumping win over Richmond at the G in front of over 70,000. And we remember a young J.Farmer riding on gazza's 'hairy' back.

[joeboy 3,166]

I may be wrong , but I vaguely recall that The Ox won a B & F a year or two after his third reconstruction .

[H_T 3,047]

Three knee re-constructions. Cruel that he was cut down in his prime. The 1st weekend of the '94 finals series against a second placed Carlton with Melbourne having finished 7th was his most memorable game. He turned Peter Dean inside out with a blind turn and bouncing before kicking a goal straight through the middle.

He went on to miss virtually the next 3 seasons. He returned for 2 games in 95, missed 96 before playing 10 games in 97, 18 games in 1998 and then played a full year in '99 winning the Best & Fairest a much 'bulkier' player, and did alot of bullocking in packs for his teammates. Continued to play good footy in 2000 and played in Melbourne's Grand Final loss to Essendon. He put James Hird on his back in aggressive fashion before copping it from Dean Wallis & Co.

173 games. 243 goals. Garry Lyon has stated in the past that he believes David Schwarz was one of, if not the best player at the club in his time.

I may be wrong , but I vaguely recall that The Ox won a B & F a year or two after his third reconstruction .

Joeboy , your answer is in the bold, above ^. He won B&F in '99, 3 years after his third reconstruction.

[joeboy 3,166]

Joeboy , your answer is in the bold, above ^. He won B&F in '99, 3 years after his third reconstruction.

Sorry , I never read the fine print

[wisedog 352]

My memories of Schwartz are a bit vague nowadays. Didn't he score 10 goals against Sydney one year? Or is that something my memory has conjured.

I remember listening on the radio when he came back from his first knee re-construction. He kicked 5 goals before doing his knee once again.

[Gorgoroth 12,950]

I loved the OX, and was gutted every time he did his knee.

Think if he stayed fit he would have rivaled Carey at least, if not been better!

Tingay getting hurt, Lyon, Neitz having to go forward robbing us of our All Australian full back, plus a host of others mentioned earlier.

Injuries Ripped the guts out of that side.

[maximum bob 462]

How many players have we lost to injury over the years? Ox, Lyon, Jakovich, Prymke, Dean, Charles, Pickett, Rivers, Robbo, Davey, McLean, Moloney, Whelan, etc, etc, etc.

A few of those names don't count - ie Whelan, Moloney, Robbo, Pickett (!) for example.

One important player missing from your list is Steven Tingay if we're talking players' careers cut short by injury.

A gun.

[pantaloons 2,019]

My memories of Schwartz are a bit vague nowadays. Didn't he score 10 goals against Sydney one year? Or is that something my memory has conjured.

From memory he kicked 9.0 against Sydney in Round 22 of 1994 at the SCG when we needed to win to make the finals. We kicked something like 27.5. Or the equivalent to what we kick in three games nowdays.

Ah, Schwarta. To put it into perspective DD, imagine Buddy Franklin circa 2007 going down with three knee recos now and never being the same player again. Schwarz wasn't quite on that level, but he was set to become one of the best players in the game before the injuries. Just terrible.

Injuries to Prymke and Jakovich were also massive. Actually, as Redleg mentioned, we really had the rough end of the stick during the 90s. You can add Glenn Lovett to that list.

[Redleg 40,919]

A few of those names don't count - ie Whelan, Moloney, Robbo, Pickett (!) for example.

One important player missing from your list is Steven Tingay if we're talking players' careers cut short by injury.

A gun.

Correct. Career ruined by a plate glass door.

[s-t-i-n-g-a 439]

A few of those names don't count - ie Whelan, Moloney, Robbo, Pickett (!) for example.

One important player missing from your list is Steven Tingay if we're talking players' careers cut short by injury.

A gun.

You read my mind.......

[wisedog 352]

From memory he kicked 9.0 against Sydney in Round 22 of 1994 at the SCG when we needed to win to make the finals. We kicked something like 27.5. Or the equivalent to what we kick in three games nowadays.

That's right... and it was round 24 according to allthestats.com I completely forgot there were 24 rounds.

I also discovered that my memory of Schwartz kicking 5 the game after coming back from a knee re-construction, never actually happened... haha

[True Believer 1]

That's right... and it was round 24 according to allthestats.com I completely forgot there were 24 rounds.

I also discovered that my memory of Schwartz kicking 5 the game after coming back from a knee re-construction, never actually happened... haha

on of my memorioes of Schwarta was he hated Essendon as much as alot of us do.

[demonate 0]

1994 we were close. We came up against the Premiers that year in West Coast. 1998 was the year for me with Neitz, Lyon, Schwarz and Farmer and not to mention a young Russell Robertson. But it was not to be unfortunately, we met the Kangaroos in full flight. We entered that final series after a thumping win over Richmond at the G in front of over 70,000. And we remember a young J.Farmer riding on gazza's 'hairy' back.

yes 1998 that was the chance

you forgot to say that we thumped the grand final winners in the qualifying finals

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

1994 we were close. We came up against the Premiers that year in West Coast. 1998 was the year for me with Neitz, Lyon, Schwarz and Farmer and not to mention a young Russell Robertson. But it was not to be unfortunately, we met the Kangaroos in full flight. We entered that final series after a thumping win over Richmond at the G in front of over 70,000. And we remember a young J.Farmer riding on gazza's 'hairy' back.

Unfortunately we were not.

WCE were streets ahead of everyone else. They belted us in the PF in Perth.

yes 1998 that was the chance

you forgot to say that we thumped the grand final winners in the qualifying finals

1998 was a better chance than 1994.

Ah, Schwarta. To put it into perspective DD, imagine Buddy Franklin circa 2007 going down with three knee recos now and never being the same player again. Schwarz wasn't quite on that level, but he was set to become one of the best players in the game before the injuries. Just terrible.

Injuries to Prymke and Jakovich were also massive. Actually, as Redleg mentioned, we really had the rough end of the stick during the 90s. You can add Glenn Lovett to that list.

Good post Pants.

Schwartz had a magnificent 1994. And he had he replicated that performance in future seasons he might have got near Carey's orbit. He was not so after one season. But its hypothetical.

He came back to AFL a different player after 3 ACL jobs and whilst winning a B&F in 1999 was never the same footballer again. His game started to deteriorate in mid 2000 through 2001 and when he finally retired in mid 2002 after a string of poor performances, he was broken man who body could not cope with AFL.

Tingay is underrated on this site.

Its no coincidence that MFC made the finals in 1994 and 1998 when Stinger was up and running. Gutsy, fearless and skillful. Great to watch

[Gorgoroth 12,950]

Yeah I think people have forgotten how good tingay was, I loved watching him play, hard as nails and some one who could also recieve the ball, dash down the wing and hit the forwards on the chest lace out.

This discussion depresses me

[mo64 5,874]

1994 we were close. We came up against the Premiers that year in West Coast. 1998 was the year for me with Neitz, Lyon, Schwarz and Farmer and not to mention a young Russell Robertson. But it was not to be unfortunately, we met the Kangaroos in full flight. We entered that final series after a thumping win over Richmond at the G in front of over 70,000. And we remember a young J.Farmer riding on gazza's 'hairy' back.

Congratulation High Tower, you are the only person who knows how to spell Schwarz (no effing T).

We were close in 1994. Unfortunately towards the end of the 3rd quarter of the semi final against Footscray, Lyon and Schwarz collided, resulting in Lyon going off with a leg injury after kicking 10, and Schwarz having concussion. Both were doubtful of playing against the Eagles the following week.

The most depressing part of 1998 prelim against North Melbourne was watching a clearly injured Lyon really struggle. He dropped a simple mark in the last quarter when on his own, and it was obvious that his back was stuffed. We were a chance that night, but things didn't go our way.

[Gorgoroth 12,950]

That and the media gave it to corey mckernan all week and I knew he would play a blinder and he did.

[loges 6,767]

To all those old enough to remember 1990 was the year , and it was an absolute disgrace that we didn't even make the grand final

[re draft molan 1]

Correct. Career ruined by a plate glass door.

Actually, Stinger played his best footy after he went through that plate glass window. He was one of the first to pioneer cross training pre seasons after that with bike riding etc.

[re draft molan 1]

1994 we were close. We came up against the Premiers that year in West Coast. 1998 was the year for me with Neitz, Lyon, Schwarz and Farmer and not to mention a young Russell Robertson. But it was not to be unfortunately, we met the Kangaroos in full flight. We entered that final series after a thumping win over Richmond at the G in front of over 70,000. And we remember a young J.Farmer riding on gazza's 'hairy' back.

Definately. We caned the Crows, and got the Roos the next week. Its history now the Crows went on to win back to back.