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Liam is in Adelaide staying with some family members, while he sorts out his future plans. I don't intend to comment on his situation at all, other than to commend the club for the support they have provided Liam during his year from hell. I would love to see him continue playing in the red and blue for another 8 years, but to be perfectly frank, my main concern is for Liam's well-being and happiness.

l'm not interested in commenting on or about Liam other than to say he has always deeply loved playing for Melbourne footy club, bringing its supporters joy and playing with his 'brothers'. Unfortunately this has obviously been a year from hell for him. His own health and wellbeing is more important than anything of course, even AFL footy! Being with family right now is the best thing for that. But l do want to respond to the suggestion earlier in the thread re. Rudeboy as someone who lives in Yuendumu and who knows Liam and Rudeboy well. Rudeboy has spent literally thousands of hours working to support his friend Liam to return to play with Melbourne this year. Let alone before this year in helping to make it happen with Liam and Melbourne in the first place. Melbourne Football club officials themselves would be the first to confirm this, as they have had constant contact and joint efforts with Rudeboy this year in supporting Liam, most especially through Craig Lees. They should both be commended for their unerring efforts in supporting Liam through his nightmare of a year. l know Liam does. The idea that Rudeboy has done anything other than support Liam to returning to try play with Melbourne throughout the year (as Liams clearly expressed desire) would be highly offensive if it wasn't so laughable.

I can't make up my mind between option 1 and option 3

No need to apologise mate, but thanks anyway. Footy people are passionate and it's what helps make the game so wonderful. I understand completely why some people might vent their frustration in all sorts of directions, including mine. I've got a thick hide mate. Also, I know that most Dees supporters continue to love Liam and give him their support. Let's hope he returns, has a great pre-season and turns on a blinder in 2013.

How could any non-Essendon person hate the Weapon? Best thing to happen to that club in years.

No, that is entirely the point. You use Darling as an example. Every club, all 16, had the chance to take Darling, and didn't. We were not the only ones. If a player is drafted late, then by the very nature of that player being drafted late, there must have been something up with him to warrant all 16 clubs choosing to skip him. So to then whinge and scream about how we could have had him is just ridiculous. Anyone could have had him, but everyone passed decided to let him slide. We had the same reservations the rest of the competition had. The only thing that can be said about drafting is that, almost always, we have picked players where the general consensus suggests they should be picked. No one questioned taking Cale Morton with pick 4 in 2007. It was a question of which of Masten and Morton WC would take with 3, and we'd take the other (given Kreuzer and Cotchin were going to be gone already). No one complained. Now, of course, we can see that Morton has not worked for us. But in 2007, that was a pick that was totally fair. I'm happy to call drafting choices into question - when there is evidence to suggest the drafters made a choice that seemed odd at the time. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, and with hindsight we all become geniuses. And in most of our cases, if not all, there wasn't a howling at the time that we'd made a mistake, or that we'd picked someone from left field, or that we'd made an obviously dumb choice. Moreover, we have managed to pick up Tom McDonald with pick 53. You win some, you lose some. All you can do is pick the player you think deserves to be picked with your selection, and then hope that a combination of work ethic and training gets the potential out of the boy. That's where we've failed.

Taking one for the team, good man!

I'm not so sure it's the dollar amount as much as it is the security of a longer-term deal. People ridicule the Clokes but what's Cloke Snr really doing that's so bad in looking after his son? If his delaying tactics land his boy an extra year well I'm sure he doesn't give a rats what people think about him. And why would his next club worru about Cloke Snr if Trav is tied away for 5 years? We can have our cake and eat it too here. Mids, mids, mids through the draft and big Trav as a FA. Time to think big Demon fans.

What is it that everyone loves about Cloke? I'd rather see us chasing a slick outside mid, even if we have to wait a year or two for them. Would hate to think we threw too much at Cloke and missed an opportunity for a good mid.

Well done Brad. On your career, yes. But more so on your personal life. Off-field you're a triple Brownlow medallist in my eyes.

Thanks for sharing. I think all clubs would have their success stories of the odd gem selected outside the top 25 or so. Where we've fallen down is using our top 20 picks. If we just look at prendergast's time, he's had picks 1, 1, 2, 11, 12, 17, 18 and 19 to work with in the space of three years, and failed to draft a superstar with that haul. That's where you are supposed to get your best players, and he made an absolute meal of it. Sure, we don't know how good some of them are going to be, but the fact that we are still wondering that about players after four years (watts, Strauss, blease) is a worry. Cook was probably the second worst pick in club history behind Molan. Gysberts has looked promising but through injury or whatever failed facets of his game has been spilled in the paper as trade bait. I don't know if it counts for or against BP, but besides Trengove and possibly Watts, all of those picks have had a fair by of injury to deal with. Yes, he's nailed Howe and McDonald, but there were plenty of later picks that haven't come on, and the addition of these two hasn't compensated for his performance drafting inside the top 20. As much as CC's idea sounds fair, we have to demand more. Other clubs are nailing their top picks and finding the odd gem.

When the mids are bombing hail marys into the forward line in big pressure finals, strong marking power forwards are, and always will be gold.

I think Cloke is not excited by Buckley's reign, over the self flagellation at Collingwood, and looking for a new challenge. The decision to join Melbourne would come with the prospect (and challenge) of being part of delivering our 13th premiership. Neeld intimately knows the value he could bring so if we go hard for him, I trust the benefit will eventuate. Too many people on here hedging their bets in case he picks another team, so they can say "we don't want/need him anyway". We should always go hard to get the best.

I know the OP didn't actually say Jetta is a small forward.... But I just want to clarify anyway. Neville Jetta has never been (mid for WA his entire junior career) and never will be a small forward. He is a midfielder, just because he isn't a giant and he is an indiginous player doesn't mean he is a small forward... Neville's strengths are his strong body, winning contested footy, setting up goals with clever kicks and his ability to manouver in traffic. These are strengths found in mids, not small forwards.

It might be hard for us to compete with the Visy brown paper bag strategy but I think there are some upsides for him to sign on with us. I don't agree we're no chance of a GF in the next three years. Given some clever trading, good coaching and culture change I'm confident things can be turned around very quickly. Call me a dreamer, but what are we if we have nothing to look forward to?.

Sorry for the delay with this, been tied up at work... Jack Viney is a top 10 pick. The issue with him is that he isn't big and isn't fast, which means that in usual circumstances you wouldn't pick him in the top 5. His intangibles are incredible. He shows guts, leadership, bravery, defensive pressure, and toughness. These things aren't measured at a draft camp so you won't hear about him very much during testing... But trust me when I see that Jack Viney is easily the toughest Under 18's player I have ever witnessed. Which is a pretty big deal considering the amount of kids that comes through the system each year. I'll tell you one thing about Viney that is rarely mentioned, his kicking over 20-40 mtrs is absolutely elite, barely ever misses a target by foot... It is quite incredible that someone of his size who plays the game the way he does would also have an elite kick but he does, it is simply a perfect action for someone at his stage of development. Naturally, we want to snag Viney in the 2nd round, so hopefully no one bids on him (for the record I don't believe anyone will risk it)... But with that being said, I would still pick Viney at 3 if we had to and not feel bad about it because we will still have pick 4 and a mid round pick. Jack Viney will forge out a 200 game career (if there are no injuries) and will most likely been in the leadership group very quickly... So to me, that is well worth the investment of the number 3 pick. Picking Viney in my opinion is a sure thing, no hoping he comes on like alot of other high draft picks... He is a guy who will come in and give us his all at a high level for his entire career. He isn't a project, he isn't a freak athlete, he isn't a great endurance runner or any of that stuff you hear about skinny 17 year old draftees... Jack Viney is a footballer... So is Sam Mitchell, so is Joel Selwood, so is Dane Swan.

Like many Demons supporters I hate both Essendon (for thuggery and bashing Green in Grand Final) and Carlton (for too many reasons to mention). So who do I barrack when they play this week? What result would maximise the chances that BOTH miss out on the finals?

Chill out folks This pantomime is yet to play out. There could be more twists to come Remember it's not over till the fat lady sings Keep the faith (a little longer) - no need to panic

Demonsterative - I get where you are coming from, but totally disagree with your thoughts. Liam has my full respect and support for the journey he has made across the emotional, mental, and cultural void between his community and the mainstream community at the MFC. Great clubs have values and pursue those values when others would defer. While this year has been bleak and devoid of proud footy moments (only the Dons game), I have felt more proud of the club this year than I have in 40+ years of supporting it. First was the MFC support and respect for Jimmy, his family and his memory. The second was ditching Energy Watch for his racist and sexist rants. The third was our support for Liam over his troubles. Great clubs support their players. [censored] ones ditch them.

Whatever gets you through PaulRB I find Single Malt works well most Saturday nights And a little humour helps as well

I admire them. I wish we had a loud mouth president that promoted our club so much that you can't get away from it. They're the golden child because they pull the most fans which means they pull the most money. Their supporters can GaGF. But I just like the way they play, I'm a big fan of Swan, Pendlebury and Beams, I like how every kid they bring in is ready to play AFL and makes an impact. I'm aware this shouldn't be allowed to be posted on here, and this post will get zero 'likes', but I just don't hate Collingwood like I was brought up to do. I also hate that so many people would rather [censored] about Collingwood than worry about their own team.

And for those who deigned it necessary to bash RudeBoy earlier in the thread, From the Age article at http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/jurrah-gone-but-not-leaving-demons-20120816-24ap2.html

Collingwood Carlton Essendon Hawthorn Whenever these teams play each other we have a saying in our red-and-blue-mad household: we don't care who wins as long as they hurt each other. As much as I hate to type this - I prefer Carlton due to draft picks. I cannot adequately express my loathing for the above four teams via a computer screen.

Terrific post!

Liam, the club and the AFL are really in totally uncharted waters on this one. So many "issues" never encountered before. I don't think anyone can predict the outcome with any certainty, but I guess those of us wo are on the pessimistic side regarding Liam's long term future playing sublime footy for MFC have reason on our side...........and I sure as hell hope we are proven wrong. The club can surely only be expected to carry him for so long.....sure support him as long as it takes but in a cut throat professional competition where every man counts it is difficult. Hopefully the AFL will be supportive of the club if they do decide to carry him into 2013 then things go belly up.

Yeah but we're still the only Club in the AFL whose coach has an involuntary twitch, so we win the award for "Most Stressful Club to Work At."

Barrack for Carlton. If Essendon fall out of the 8, our mid-first round essentially moves up 1 pick, due to Essendon taking Daniher F/S.

Well done Brad. Welcome back at the MFC anytime.

Everything I've heard about him is that he was great clubman while at Melbourne, I had high hopes for him early on in his time at Melbourne and although he never reached the hights I wished for he had some great moments with us. Would like him to come back to the club at some stage.

That's pretty much how I see it. I reckon you're right on the money. What I'd give for a star. Here's a few more paragraphs from CAC, where he succinctly sums up the importance of stars: "My post was not really a justification of our drafting; ultimately I don't need to do that in a public forum. It was more to show that some assumptions about the value of first round selections, especially those outside the top 10, are erroneous. Only a little more than 1 in 2 play 50 or more games." "It was also to emphasise your point that finding a star is more important than having the numbers right. Adelaide have the second worst record of all clubs in the National Draft between 1997 and 2003. Not just overall but also in top 10 and first round selections. They survive and play finals based on a handful of residual stars. Stars that came to them through odd means. Zone selections and in the case of Goodwin a pre season draft." "Anyway I'm sure we will continue to debate the merits of our talent identification compared to the rest of the competition. And if your boy Jones live up to expectations our first round figures will be above the competition average." I wanted to draft Jones prior to the ND and briefly had a conversation with CAC about it. I reckon I've been Jones harshest critic, but that's the way I roll. He's been great this year and has made the jump to A grade. But it's only an A grade year. Unless you're A grade for at least two years you're not an A grader in my eyes. He needs to back up from now on. I also wanted Watts, but am terribly disappointed. But that's another story ...

I don't think BP's drafting has been as bad as many here make out. There's a lot of water to pass under the bridge. Gysberts, Cook and Bennell might be misses but everyone makes them, even if we don't value them we could convert them to trade value and they may prosper elsewhere. I've got no problems with the Watts, Scully and Trengove picks. Blease, Strauss and Tapscott have been significantly hindered in their development and can still deliver on their rating. Later picks Howe and McDonald are very good. Gawn, Fitzpatrick, Jetta, Nicholson, and Evans can also deliver on their rating. He picked Jurrah. There's a stampede to prematurely condemn.

The fat we've built into our salary over the past couple of years means Cloke should not limit our ability to pay our young "stars" more as the list matures. We have no Buddy, Rioli, Hodge, Mitchel level players so we should grab what we can i.e. Cloak.

It wouldn't be. Getting mids would be. But there is no Cloke equivalent midfielder that is RFA. 25 year old who is amongst the top 3 in the league at what he does. Show me the 25 year old RFA midfielder we should give that money to and we will go get that guy.

We'd be spending a lot of coin over a lot of years on Cloke if he came to us. could it be better used spread over a number of players, as McLardy spoke of? Yes, another big forward would be very handy. Cloke would probably be a good match for Clarke and give some of our other mid size fwds a better chance. But I keep thinking that our priority is 2-3 QUALITY midfielders of the standard of Jones or better (but not necessarily players in the style of Jones). For mine, it mids, mids and mids.

goodnessly - you are on a roll, leaving krudd in the dust

See, I have a completely different view of Judd. I don't think he is a leaders bootlace. Yes he leads with on field performance but Tom Harley would not have stood by while Fev was going apeshit at the Brownlow. Nick maxwell would not have chained himself to an 18yo Levi Casaboult who was so shiitefaced that his Dad had to be called to be picked up. Brett Kirk would not have tolerated a drug fuelled culture that Judd oversaw at West Coke. Judd continually says 'I don't want to be a role model' or in my words 'Just pay me a fortune and p*** off out of my life'. He is anything but a leader. I think that those who point to a single gun player like that saying everyone will follow is missing the point entirely. Carlton does not play like a true team under Judd IMO. So its more than having a great player. Its about having a leadership group that demands excellence and commitment.

OldDee, I BELIEVE we're honestly to goodnessly on the right path this time. Build a side around a spine of Cloke - Clark - Boak - Watts - Frawley and we will be up and about quicker than most can imagine.

Gees Rivers is underrated on these forums. Will be top 3 in BnF this year. Well and truly in our top 10 players.

If he goes do we get to break his leg for a year? Would be fair enough .

i was onto that rat Scully early on. Blease is a different situation entirely. The only reason people are even discussing Blease leaving and going to GWS is because he's mates with Scully. Thats it. No preseason 'jungle drums', no drawn out saga's with GWS confirming an approach etc. Basically if Blease wasnt mates with scully then he would fit into the same catogory as Jones and Howe - Talented footy players whom other sides would have shown interest in. MFC signed them up. Blease will stay.

Sammy in negotiations now and definitely wants to play on next year. Schwarta asking about Skulldog. He said I'm not Tom Scully. Neeld and Club is going in right direction and his contract will sort itself out. He is not going anywhere. Speaks well and giving an insight into how his broken leg played on his mind and had to consult a psychologist to help him overcome his fear of rebreaking his leg. Looking forward to having a full preseason to be able to push up forward. Yes!!

The obvious thing is to tell him to retire and talk to us when he is ready to play again ,if ever . Good enough player but do we really have to keep him on the list at all?

I love this Forum's periodical assessments of assistant coaches. It has all the intellectual rigour and basis of fact that would be present in a dark ages village witching hunt probe. Think Monty Python. Royal may well go at the end of the year. But to expect a coach to do anything with our bottom of the barrel third world midfield is laughable. But yes it must be the assistant coach and not the cattle! Heavens knows who the torch bearers next year....Bohdan Babijczuk?

Found it a bit amusing he has copped it on here. He may be a dud, but we wouldn't really have a clue of the workings of the football department and his specific role. All we do know is we are undermanned in the midfield and have been for a few years now.

All the talk of getting chapman for his culture building abilities gets me thinking we should go hard for Cameron Ling as a Midfield coach. This bloke knows what it's like to be in a crap team and then turn it around into a monster of a team. Many say he is interested in coaching so I say get him.

Furthermore ... Brent Moloney's head drop does nothing but validate Neeld's decision to strip him of a leadership position. Made of the wrong stuff unfortunately.

You talk about Green and Moloney as though they are Hodge and Selwood. They are so far from it it's not funny. The only way forward for this club is to raise the bar, which Neeld is doing. So ... buy in or bugger off.

ErggghhhhMaaaaaaaaaaGEEERRRRRRRRDDDDHHHHHH, Mods please delete this dribble

31yo. May want to fix that... Edit: Actually I could go on, I disagree with most of it including the bit about half the list struggling mentally ...... . Most out of touch POV I've read in one single post. NFI.