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Hi all! I didn't want to start a new thread so I thought I'd give this one a bump. I've just edited and uploaded a video to YouTube featuring Jeffy's 2017 highlights. More to come in the lead up to round one! Go Dees!

I headed down by bike for first session since last season and as Saty has mentioned, it was primarily a skills session with most of the work divided into 3 groups - forwards, mids and defenders. AFL is becoming a bit like NFL in that you train majority of time with your chosen group. Those of you who have been regulars at training will know this already, but for those of you who haven't been much this year, the conclusions you can draw are: Jordy and Vince are training with defence and will start season down back. Bernie was working feverishly in most drills, so overlook from your Rd 1 team at your peril. The other player to catch the eye was Jake Lever. Gees he moves well and his hands are so clean and given the way he was encouraging others, he's a monte to be part of our new leadership group. Oscar wasn't there today, but all the other keys were - Joel Smith doing running work so not part of the squad today but I'm told by Saty that he has been on other days and he looks mega ripped. Wags also impressive, but boy it's going to be hard for him to get in this year. Both Salem and Angus were training with midfield group, who were practising boundary throw set up with Plappy for a lot of session. Olly was being a bit of a dick, but his push and shove games with Salem, Tracc and Billy are all part of what happens when the real stuff begins, so he was a likeable nuisance. Maynard moves well, but like Wags, he will have to hope for injuries to get a gig methinks. Viney wasn't there and Tyson was another absentee today. But Tracc is training with the mids, so will he play there? Baker getting more tuition than really joining in - same as Petty with defenders. The forward group included Bugg, JKH, Melky and Spargo for those trying to figure out Goody's early mindset. Lots of snaps and goalkicking practice for them and ANB, Melky and JKH were my best workers on a hot day when both Hoges and Jeffy finished up a little early - Jeffy did running drills afterwards so no issues there. T.Mac clearly a leader of this gp and he will doubtless again be in leadership squad with Viney, Jones, Gawn and Lever and then maybe one of the defensive oldies as well - ie: Lewis or Vince. Hannan doing laps/fitness work with Tim Smith, while Weed did more hardcore running. I didn't see Kent. Of all the recruits, aside from Lever, the only one I reckon is a chance for Rd 1 action is Bayley Fritsch - he's mega fit. I suspect he will get a trial pre-season and if he performs, a spot may appear with Hannan playing recovery catch up. Bugg may be preferred to them both though because he can lay a mean tackle, as we know. Postscript: I just realised I didn't spot Harley Balic - help Saty!

Interestingly, someone I know (admittedly not well) who used to do some work at the club told me that one of the coaching differences between Neeld and Roos was that Neeld followed the Malthouse view that players needed to change to meet what the coach requires (and if they couldn't, they were jettisoned) whereas Roos believed that coaches should work with what they've got and build around each players' strengths. Buckley's major post-player career mistake to date has been staying at Collingwood and not experiencing alternative approaches to coaching other than the Malthouse style.

I popped down briefly. Not a huge amount to report. Everyone seemed to know what they were doing and went about their business. But I was watching Weideman pretty closely as he was doing his run-throughs / sprints in front of me, lead some of the time by Crossy. He's looking a lot fitter and much more 'AFL ready' compared to last year. I saw him at a similar stage last year and thought he really seemed to look quite heavily running across the ground – almost trudging – but today he really glided along and ran swiftly for a big bloke. Wouldn't want to be standing in his way. Obviously he's still got another couple of years before we see the best of him but I think we might see some exciting glimpses this year. He couldn't be too far away from joining the main group as he looked pretty comfortable running at pace.

Criticism of the women's game is a bit rich. Most of us were blown away by the competition last season and the skills displayed by the women. So far we are one round into the new season and most of the comments came from the Collingwood-Carlton game. Enjoy the game for what it is and accept there are differences between the men and women's game. There may be skill differences and less scoring opportunities but that does not mean the game is less enjoyable to watch. I have watched a lot of footy including the amateurs and country footy and despite the skill differences, those matches have for the most part been very enjoyable to watch. Low scoring games can be more exciting and interesting than goal feasts. We should celebrate the women's game as women have been a significant part of the game since its inception, both as spectators and later as players. Leave it alone and let it grow organically without interference from the AFL or TV bosses calling the tune. Can you imagine the reaction of coaches and the footy world if the AFL had issued an edict to the men's teams as they did to the women. The men of the AFL want to reap the financial rewards of the women's game but at the same time, tell the women how to play the game. They should direct their attention to the men's game, and clean up the ugly game that it has become. If you leave the management of the women's game to women, the game will be much better off. Men will never understand women's sport.

The past two premiership coaches have built a structure and a game plan on the resources at hand. We can speculate on our structure and game plan but I suspect that it will depend on the availability, form and fitness of the players. What is different for the dees this year is that, with our flexible list comprising talls and shorts, inners and outers, attackers and defenders, runners and blockers, deliverers and receivers and many multi adaptable players, there are many different combinations that can be tested and used. The final structure for both the doggies and tiges did not become apparent until the finals arrived. Let's be patient and not get fixated on a "preferred" structure and let it evolve. That we will have numerous options and possibilities is a plus. The ultimate goal is to find a structure and game plan that our opposition can't counter.

Fine scooting weather Craft day So after a few warmup drills split into 3 groups Mids stoppage/clearance/tackling Fwds marking/goalkicking/ crumbing and bringing ball to ground Backs marking/one on one/spoiling They have brought in a tackling coach from the Storm for a bit of technique training Other notes We are taking the AFLX seriously, I asked Clarry is an aggressive sod in the tackling drills Nathan Jones completed whole session without a hint of trouble Some blurry pics on here and Insta today or tomorrow Any questions feel free

Actually it is. Gawn resting forward would generally be deep forward, he'd draw at least one tall defender (possibly 2), and our forwards would know the balls likely to come in long and high at Maxy, be at his feat then work hard to apply defensive pressure if theres a turn over... If you're implying Max is unaccountable or disinclined to chase, I disagree.

I like all long suffering Dee supporters feel a bit crook in the guts at this time of year, 2017 gave us some great wins, un-explainable poor losses, a massive fade out against the lowly Lions and then a gut wrenching loss to the Pies. The Lions win set off alarm bells in my head once again, so I wasn't as surprised as some that we played so poorly in Round 23. This year I am not expecting it to be an easy road to the finals, there are 10 other teams that can make it, I want and expect this group of players to guts out wins that we would have lost and put teams to the sword that aren't 100% on or are injury depleted. No more mister nice guy's, I want mean hard, tough players that play for each other the Club and us supporters. Nothing else will be good enough in 2018. Go Dee's....................!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Money/exposure talks. If the AFL wants Carlton and Collingwood to play a more open brand all they need to do is threaten to give the opening game of the season to us and the dogs - as it should have been in the first place! We would get just as many people to the game (most of the people I know who went were neutrals anyway).

I'm a firm believer this is why Buckley has been such an ordinary coach to date. Instead of utilising the talent he had he has always been trying to change the group into a mould that may or may not be successful. You need to work with the strengths of your current group and at the same time have and eye to the future.

As long as we fix our slow starts improve our kickouts, stop going to sleep for a whole quarter when we feel like it and improve our energy as the season progresses I will be happy All the rest is fixable the team must start to turn up to play from the first bounce in the first game!!!!!!!!

How ridiculous by the AFL to ask the teams to play a certain way. Amateur hour stuff. The answer is fairly simple, shorten the length of the field. The average AFL men's player kicks 50m. The average woman probably kicks 30m. The MCG is 160m long. If you kick directly down the middle it should take 3 kicks for the men to score, however it will take the women 5-6 kicks. Reduce the field size by 30 metres and there will be a lot more goals.

I spoke to both Crossy and Weed, 2 more weeks in rehab and then ready to go, aim is to build a body that gets on the park and and stays there. Same with Smith x 2 they are in and out of main group now building loads

G'day punters. Sorry don't do mulits. Bookies love them for a reason. I use Winning Post for my form, have done for many years. Unfortunately it now comes out Friday morning (except in selected newsagents) meaning i have to do my form Friday night. It takes me a good 2-3 hours to from properly for both Melbourne and Sydney. I'll do my form tomorrow night/sat morning and post my best on Sat morning

Some guys obviously want to be banned so keep up the sexist posts and you'll find you can no longer post on Demonland.

It's an incredibly condescending 'request' by the AFL. Coaches are given the rules by which to abide over the preseason, then develop a gameplan within those rules that will allow their team to win footy matches. This is the same attitude that is taken up by all levels of football. If Melbourne played an attacking, free-flowing style, but got belted every week, how would our attendances look then? It's a professional league, they play to win.

It was Max running down Selwood that led to his hamstring injury last season. He definitely puts in the effort when the ball hits the deck.

I think it's more about working with what you've got instead of trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. Small forward lines will work if your players are talented and driven enough. But you're not going to drop a big guy for a small guy if the big guy is more talented and offers more to the team (and vice versa).

Re Roos coaching. In 2005 he built a defensive structure and game plan around Roberts-Thompson at CHB who was generally considered to be a fringe player at best. His only task was to stop his opponents from getting clean possession and then it was up to his team mates to clean up. He succeeded so well that Sydney won the flag and LRT was seriously considered by many good judges to have been a candidate for the Norm Smith medal. Of all of Roos' coaching achievements, this was his best. Each player has a role based on his particular ability and it's up to the coach to identify and define that rol and make it work for the team.

I was including the 4 pick multi Wadda much as I would a 5 pick multi if we get another joining in. Of course, it gets complicated then but my attitude is the more, the merrier and we should be able to sort it all out as individuals. The important thing is getting the best bets posted up ... we'll know a lot of thought has gone into the picks and also, much as what happened last week and this week already, we may well be able to see the same value in a best bet posted by someone else (on closer inspection) Take your Gailo Chop pick as an example ... I hadn't looked at that race yet as I had it marked as a trifecta race which I was going to look at on Friday night or Saturday morning. So I then looked at the race closely and then saw what you could see. Affirmation. And seeing we're on a new page ... Australian Group & Listed Races

And with @binman entering in with a best bet that will give us for 4 best bets ... I anticipated that happening so there's an option of four 3 pick multi's within the 4 pick multi. Much like the 3 doubles within the 3 pick multi. Again, it's totally optional as is the compulsion to take out a multi at all. The theory behind the concept is that if you look at enough of the different races properly, one horse will eventually jump out at you (figuratively speaking of course!) The combined input is a way of combining all our standout best bets. And because we're posting up a tip that others can benefit from, you'll probably work harder at finding that one best bet. You don't want to miss with a pick.

No one is asking you to do multis? Goodaye Binman and welcome again to punters corner, glad you can join us and your astute input is always welcome to us mugs. We like to put our heads together and come up with selections we might use in any manner of different ways including Win and Place. Its just part of the fun, but we have no rules. Looking forward to seeing your best.

Thats a great idea. Also im usually free on Thursday nights, so its a good time for me to have a look with you guys.

I mentioned here before that there are 3 potential 'Doubles' within the 3 pick multi ... It's kinda hedging the bet but if the 3 get up like it did last week you get the double 3 times as well. That's how I'm going to approach the system ... depending on how much you lay on, you can double or triple your total outlay with just a double getting up. And if all 3 get up you've had a good day.

Another tough race ... @Demon77 2 on top (Brave Song & Kementari) are both in with a real chance. And Gailo Chop is an excellent choice Wadda ... a real Group level performer (often at Group 1) As you intimated, against this lot it matches up very well. As for 'Smart Coupe' ... it's run some very good times carrying 55. And the bloke who trains the horse (Ellerton) is a favourite trainer of an acquaintance who follows a lot of his horses.

I notice Goodfella is in Race 6.at WF. Thats on my list. Im going to make Gailo Chop my best bet Caulfield R 4 No 1. Should brain this lot. Its not paying much, but a leg in a multi is what it is right there. Another little horse i like and ive won on him before, is Smart Coupe. Caulfield R5 N6. Hes never missed a place in 5 starts and is paying 8.50. Last start 2 weeks ago at caulfield, 2nd over 1100 good barrier and has Williams on board. Main race is still to hard, i want to wait till raceday, see scratching etc. But ill put Thronum on top, followed by Brave Smash and Tosen Stardom. I also notice there are many small fields Macca, just how you like it.

Lol Macca, I've only looked briefly at the Warwick Farm races and Egyptian Symbol is the one that stood out to me also. I also like Brave Song in R6 but it's up against Kementari. Kementari's form was very good prior to its Coolmore run back in the spring. Not sure if I want to declare Brave Song as my "Best" yet. I will do some more studying when I get home later.

I might be tempted to look at the horses that are racing well now Wadda ... Tshahisti, Thronum & Dollar for Dollar. It's a tough race to find a winner though and I've got about 7 or 8 horses that I reckon can be in the finish. I've got to find a way to reduce that number down to 5 or 6 and then get the right configuration for a trifecta. The Weir Horse (Brave Smash) could be right in this as well as the top 3 (Hartnell, Black Heart Bart & Tosen Stardom) C F Orr Stakes

My 'Best Bet' ... Warwick Farm Race 7 No.2 Egyptian Symbol to win (current fixed odds 3.40) It's last start was the 973k Magic Millions Sprint over 1200m where it ran 3rd to the very class 'Viddora' (1:08.69) Before that won well at Rosehill on a Heavy 8. Meets this lot with SW + P's in a small field. The jockey's record on the horse is good as well.

Just looking at the Orr Stakes, I know Tosen Stardom is a great horse, but hes failed 4 times at 1400. Sure hes placed, but hes in barrier 14, carrying 59kg hardly favourite material is it? Surely his go is 1600 - 2000 and this is just a run?? I will have something on him i guess just so i dont kick myself. Might really have to wait until race day to see if something jumps out at me. haha....Caulfield correspondent it is then. I may actually be going up to Randwick or Rosehill for a day at the races with my old punting mate. I may very well be Sydney correspondent as well.

Well they race on turf up there Wadda ... you might be thinking of Singapore maybe? Looks like grass to me anyway The 1400m races at Sha Tin are just pure sprint races from what I can see ... I don't see horses getting to the front and putting on the brakes but if that does ever happen the other horses just scoot on by. The 1600m races are much the same although not always - times in the 1:33's or 1:34's are regular occurrences in the mile races (often carrying WFA type weight) Anyway, In that trifecta race (Race replay - Race 7 Sha Tin 04/02/18) the odds on favourite won and I had the 3rd horse to win as well ... but it was the 2nd horse at big odds that boosted up the dividend. Started at 35-1 but it had decent form and it's previous times were very good. The commentator made mention of the 'slow pace up front' but they still ran 1:22.27! And you're our 'Caulfield Correspondent' Wadda so we're expecting a decent 'Best Bet' from you with regards to Saturday's races! There's got to be something that stands out. I'll put my tip up directly.

Sigh. Any average grade men's suburban side is full of players who, cpmared to women footballers, had an extra decade of access to coaching, training and playing opportunities by the time they were 20. Even for code-hoppers the available development resources in their previous sport is radically different in almost all cases. You're comparing people who have had a lifetime of enocuragement, coaching, support and often pay, to people who have persevered despite being laughed at for even showing an interest, or at best cut off from access to development programs by the time they reach puberty. It's just a tedious false comparison, and I'm sure you already know about these differences, you're not generally an idiot, even if you're a bit wild with the punctation sometimes. So, when you ignore obvious facts in order to mock people because of their sex... well, look yourself in the mirror and at least promosie you won't ever complain about people being annoyed that you're sexist, ok?

I think it was KB talking about this the other day. In reference to the AFLW matches on the weekend. On one station (Fox? Seven? can't remember) their "special comments" seemed to centre around the stats sheets in front of them. "This girl has taken 6 marks and last year she averaged 11 marks" etc On the other station they talked about what this mark meant in the context of the game and why it was a big deal. One can be a slave to stats.

Nice one. I was wondering how you went? So there is a pattern of predictability to Sha Tin, thats interesting. Is that because its not on grass and there is no track or rail bias so to speak? Bring on the group races ! I think that 8/1 for Ace High on the Rosehill Guineas is the Best Bet for next month.

If they could predict things with 100% accuracy they wouldn't be sharing the info, they'd be making a packet backing winners. The analysis does stand up, for the most part. Of course they can only base this on historical statistics and players performance can change from year to year, especially as they mature. You can't look at it and then predict the ladder from first to worst for the coming year but you can look at trends especially in game style and a players relative worth to his team. Take Dustin Martin for example, they do a piece on him as the 2017 player of the year. Early in his career the piece states Martin was being under-rated compared to his actual output. Then in 2016 he spent longer periods in the middle and was getting more touches but have less overall impact on his teams performance ie their ability to score. The football world starting getting on the Dusty bandwagon but relative to his performance in 2016 Champion Data felt he was being over-rated. 2017 he smashed it from pillar to post and the stats bare that out. They show some comparative heat maps from 2016 v 2017 where in 2016 often he was getting his touches around half back/midfield. 2017 he was getting more touches around midfield/half forward. He was also winning more one on one contests, far more than his next closest rival in Dangerfield (I believe the stats for 2017 were something like 86 1:1's won by Dusty vs about 26 for Dangerfield who was 2nd). Of course the ultimate statistic is the scoreboard and the best way to know what is happening is to actually watch the game in front of you. But the advanced stats that Champion Data have implemented allow us to better articulate what is happening, break down coaching strategies/game styles and make comparisons between teams and across years. Two more things I took away from their intro in this years Prospectus; 1) Up until 2008 scoring chains predominantly began in the back half of the field. This changed in 2009 where the amount of scoring chains between back and forward half were roughly equal - then since 2010 it has flipped and the majority now come from forward half. This correlates with Ross Lyon and Malthouse initiating the forward half press with teams getting more turnovers in the forward half providing scoring opportunities. 2) Since they began keeping scoring stats in 1999 the origin of scores has stayed pretty much constant. 60% from turnovers, 35% from stoppages, 5% (roughly a goal a game) from kick-ins. Teams that receive a kick-in after a point are likely to either turn it over or create a boundary throw-in or ball up and turning it over in the forward half is lethal. Looking at this from a rudimentary perspective you'd think the best plan of attack would be to just keep smashing the goal front from all angles. Chances are you'll get it back for another crack anyway. From the other perspective if you have possession at a kick-in and decide to play keepings off you better make damn well sure you retain possession or at the very worst create a stoppage. This explains why so many teams just go long and to the boundary from a kickout as its preferable to get a stoppage than a turnover and the chances of running the field and scoring from a kickout are extremely slim.

Tiges & Dogs circumstances governed how they set up. We're a more rounded team so I expect that flexibility will be used to our benefit. We won't be following either so I don't think you have anything to worry about. With Fritsch & Hannan as 3rd tall options & the Petracca wildcard don't be surprised if we don't go with a dedicated 2nd ruck option. Tommy Mac or Pedders will take care of that, I think they may often be fighting for the same spot in the team. How Weideman comes up will also play a part in how we set up... Sometimes we will go 2-4 and sometimes we will rotate a resting ruck.

The real story will be when entry is not free to the games. Then we'll see how popular the women's game is.

It will be my next read. What i found very eye opening was a quote from James Cook on observation of the Indigenous people during his exploration of the east coast "They live in a tranquillity which is not disturbed by the inequality of condition. The earth and sea of their own accord furnishes them with all things necessary for life. They covet neither magnificent houses or household stuff. They live in a warm and fine climate and enjoy wholesome air". Looks like no one took much notice of Jimmy's observations !

I reckon the Tiges went pretty much 1-5....Jack was often the only tall and they used a medium like Grieg as relief ruck. Wouldn't be surprised if we went 2-4 at times and maybe varied it a bit through the year depending on match ups and form...

I'll settle for a long sequence of comfortable, routine, unremarkable victories.

well you are just plain wrong, doc the afl wanted predominately white and we (current admin and supporters) fought them and won so stick that in your pipe and smoke it

There are 2 issues here. One is whether AFLX an appropriate way to expand Aussie rules (assuming that is a higher priority than other issues related to AFL). The other is the effect on existing teams on their pre-season preparation. As I've posted I have strong reservations about the latter. If there was a way of running something like AFLX without involving AFL listed players I'd be more relaxed.