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I'm another who has been on one which was run by a company called IDQ who usually take elite sports teams. (Recently they took Melbourne Storm on one so I wonder if it's the same company). I was playing with a struggling A grade amateur side who were perceived to be 'soft' and would 'crumble' under pressure in clutch games. The club decided to forked out thousands of dollars for most senior players to attend. We'd finished about sixth the season just gone. The 'outpost guarding' exercise described by the poster with inside info sounds identical to the one we did. After one and a half days of a variety of the most intense, repetitious and torturous exercise off the back of about 4 hours sleep max, we were given the outpost guarding exercise at about 11 pm at night. Set-up around a circular walking track, players were positioned individually about 100 metres from one another so that you were on your own to guard your area whilst one of the IDQ guys would walk around making a call which you had to respond to when he passed your area. I fell asleep twice during the exercise which went for over an hour and a half and I remember some guys were hallucinating quite seriously when stories were shared after it finished. If it is indeed true that not one MFC player fell asleep during this exercise, I'm gobsmacked. That's amazing. As for whether it was beneficial or not, obviously I can only speak from individual experience and the things that I got out of it were the following: A sense of place within my unit/team which allowed me to feel more comfortable and confident as a 20 year old getting to know senior players as well as senior coaches which has an on-flow effect to feeling more comfortable and confident in yourself at training and in games of footy. For all the new draftees and most young players at our club, that experience alone is of benefit. It also dissolved physical and mental boundaries. Knowing what I'd endured on that camp spurred me on in pre-season running and in games from then on. Of course this is not new for many who have been on pre-season camps, but I hadn't experienced that level of pain ever before. And I'm sure some of the young guys at our club would say the same. As for injuries, we copped a few also. Some serious and that's the risk taken when you attend these camps. I'm sure in and amongst the sore bodies and injuries at the MFC, there will have been a lot of self-development for individuals and bonds would have been formed and further strengthened. And that can only be a good thing. For anyone interested in where we finished the following year: Third last.

Jayden Hunt symbolises the transformation of this club. Our recruiting team picked him from left field, albeit based on sound research and shrewd talent identification. Our conditioning staff then turned him into a super athletic player. And our development and coaching staff have now unlocked his potential. He is a gun. An excitement machine. And he looks to be a thoroughly decent individual too.

It seems to me that whilst the debate has been robust nobody here claims any specific knowledge to substantiate their position. Therefore it seems most are just pizzing in the wind and wanting to defend their positions in the absence of any facts. My uninformed position would be that it's of dubious benefit but I'd be open to the arguments for it. I'm inclined to think that given the experience of people like Mahoney, Goodwin and McCartney the benefits would outweigh the negatives. Those worried about the injury aspect need to appreciate that injury can occur in any aspect of training - Petracca in training, Frawley in weights and Allan Jakovich getting his gear out of the car. Hell, didn't someone get bitten by something at Brighton beach one year during a recovery session? Whilst McQueen and Dazzle have experienced this sort of thing and claim no benefit neither are AFL players who are expected to perform at high levels when exhausted.

In my view this camp was as beneficial to the new coaching group as it potentially was for the players. What better way to understand the strengths and weaknesses of your group than putting them under extreme pressure. I'm sure there was the aspect of new players bonding, but what better environment to fully understand your playing list and the best way to help individuals as you prepare for a new season. It's the sort of exercise you wouldn't do every year, or often, but there's a whole new dynamic at play with plenty of new coaches, as well as new players. People seem to only be focussing on what the players will get out of it. For me it's players learning about themselves, each other, and the coaches, together with the coaches learning about each other, the players and cementing the "why" of this group, which goes hand in hand with their collective goals. Unless you know the immediate goals of Goodwin/McCartney it's difficult to critique. You may assume what they're trying to achieve, but you can't be entirely sure.

As I mentioned in my training report yesterday, Hunty was one of the standouts for me. He now has a stronger physique to match his undoubted courage, and yesterday he seemed to be in the right place for every contest, and win heaps of ball against strong opposition. If he can do this consistently in the heat of battle, and combine it with his explosive pace, then we will have an undeniable 'weapon' on our hands. I know it's only one viewing (for me), and only part way through pre-season, but I can't help being very excited based on what I saw yestetday.

I sat next to Kelvin Lawrence at a Debt Demolition Dinner several years ago. He was a lovely kid. There was a silent auction on all of the players' guernseys, the results of which were continually being updated on a big screen that everyone in the room could see. Every single player's guernsey was rapidly escalating in price. Except Kelvin's. His had not attracted one bid. He sat there silently, and gently, watching the progress of the auction. I thought he was going to cry. I turned to him. I said "hey mate - I've heard you're super quick. And talented. You going to play seniors some day?'. He shyly responded 'I really hope so'. I said 'well mate, I believe in you. Make it happen' - and I immediately took out the bidding machine and, with him watching, I put on a bid of 500 bucks for his guernsey. He was no longer last on the leaderboard. Not remotely. I winked at him. It was met with the biggest grin ever - it almost brought a tear to my eye. He never played a senior game for the club and was ultimately delisted. A lovely young fellow. The game at this level is brutal.

I haven't been on these things before but I've done physically demanding things in the past. I'm sceptical when people say they get no benefit. I just wonder if you learn something about yourself that you might not even be aware of or if the experience prepares you for some things. I don't know, I just find it hard to believe a well (human) resourced and competent management group would ok it for little or no benefit. It's not like they wouldn't have other things they'd like to do with the money.

During the Carlton game,he didn't seem to be affected by the rest of the team playing [censored]; he was the only thing about that game that I liked.

Image taken 18 months ago. Massive transformation. I wonder how some of the skinny young kids that didn't work out would have gone under the new regime.

Enjoy! https://www.smugmug.com/frame/slideshow?key=HC4jRw&autoStart=1&captions=0&navigation=0&playButton=0&randomize=0&speed=4&transition=fade&transitionSpeed=1&clickable=1 On review I found a couple of more worth a look https://six6six.smugmug.com/frame/slideshow?key=XJ8fDC&autoStart=1&captions=0&navigation=0&playButton=0&randomize=0&speed=3&transition=fade&transitionSpeed=2&clickable=1

Hibbard, Salem and Lewis should go a ways to fixing the problem 'steve'. ...and I would expect a few of the kids to improve this aspect of their game, especially Brayshaw also think Hunt will lift further in 2017. Agree, no doubt it's an area we need to keep working on though. edit: Oliver is also a very good user by foot, hopefully he uses this part of his game to more advantage at AFL level in 2017.

We've probably done this to death now (training camp), but some really interesting points have been raised. I'm more in the negative than positive but won't disregard what others have said. I'm not happy about Tyson picking up an injury and that probably colours my view as I think he is a critical part of our team. ...but I'm also more a train football to play football kind of person.

Winning flags had more to do with having Franklin, Roughy , Hodge , Rioli, Mitchell, Lewis on the list and then cherrypicking the likes of Gibson , Burgoyne, Lake and Frawley than any trip to kokoda.

You'd be pretty sure that with a group like PJ, Mahoney, Goodwin & McCartney, that they'd done a fair bit of research into if this was beneficial or not. PJ isn't exactly a sucker when it comes to spending money.

"I love Daisy Cutter" might work?

Remind me again how many premierships Sicily's won.

One of my favourites! Makes our team so much better. Intrested to see where he plays most of his footy, I absolutely love him off half back but I reckon he could easily be a gun wingman

I love him. (In a blokey kind of way.)

He just needs to keep it out of the way.

This is an interesting phenomenon. Stretch is underrated in a big way by a lot of Dees fans, and I wonder if it's to do with the fact he wasn't a high pick and thus hasn't had a lot of attention from either internal or external media. It's a strange one when you see so many talk about our need for "run and carry" or "spread" but then not think to name one of our best exponents of that.

Jonesy was reportedly happy to have "such a nice 2 hour sleep" on the camp as he's been getting bugger all with two kids under 2

Thanks for the training reports WW and the other posters who contributed. Others have said it before but residing interstate we get absolutely so news about the MFC (or any other eastern states based teams), and if it weren't for your contributions we'd have no idea how the team was going. Unfortunately some do spoil the threads with their petty bickering but I've decided not to reply or get involved. Schoolyard bullies love the response they get from their victims. I'd ask other posters to treat them as such and not reply, eventually they will move on. Thanks again for the training reports, brilliant.

Did one couple of years ago pre season when i was up playing SANFL. We did a whole weekend and i swear i only got about 2.5 hour sleep. It was the biggest waste of time of my life. Majority of my teammates all agreed that it had nothing to do with footy at all and did not benefit them come game day one bit. This was discussed on an end of season break up. One guy put a disk out of his back from these big barrels we had to pick up and carry up hill. Begged the SAS captain to stop due to the sharp pain that was jolting down his back only to cop an absolute spray. End result he missed 6 months of footy and potentially getting drafted... [censored] idiots. I don't give 2 shits if its supposed to to test your mental side but FFS we are playing footy not diving into the middle of Syria with a back pack full of artillery weapons.

This topic is raised each year, and fair enough to But i think 2017 will be different, in so much as i think the team as a whole will step up. i think a whole bunch of players will take the jump together. That is what the Cats did in 2007, yes i know they were further advanced than we are now, But for the club to take that Quantum leap (and that is what we have to do) multiple players will need to step up.

Laying down the challenge, if he is good enough he can win his spot back but it won't be easy

We've "imported" a couple of great kicks, so hopefully they can not only improve our kicking on game day but also start to show the younger lads how to improve your foot skills.

Whilst I think we'll improve overall next year, I still see our kicking efficiency and lack of really great users being a killer for us during games, especially against the best sides. I still think we're far too hit and miss. It still amazes me that Nathan Jones has really been the only player to go from being an ordinary user of the ball to one of our most reliable users. We need many more to take a similar trajectory including Brayshaw, Viney, Tyson, Petracca, Kent etc.

Jetta. Tmac. Frost vince. Omac. Hibbard hunt. Tyson. Stretch petracca hogan. Kent watts. Weideman. Garlett gawn. Viney. Jones Lewis. Brayshaw.salem Oliver

I was just going to say something along the same lines - not in a negative way at all, just that after 2016 he won't be flying under the radar anymore and he will be aware that teams will put more focus and effort into stopping him next season. Hopefully we have some strategies in place that allow him to continue to get into space to use his pace, but with the 'new Melbourne', I'm confident that we can do that.

I think we've probably ended up in between the truth - for some it would have been rewarding, but less so for others, especially those players who picked up an injury or aggravated something. It's fair to say that if an AFL club is doing it then you would assume there is some benefit in it, but it still seems to be a slightly archaic approach all the same.

Giving these young men a sense of history and those who went before them is important for their development as rounded individuals and taking opportunities that they have been gifted. Not sure its suited for everyone but from all reports it has been an integral part of the Hawks ethos.

He could have been one of that bunch, if many on here had their way.

I reckon the way the Hawks do Kokoda is brilliant. They use it as a right of passage for the young and new players to feel part of the team. They soak up the history of the place. They learn about team work and form an instant bond with each other. Clarko goes with them doesn't he? So he gets to see them under pressure and they get to respect him going with them. It has a purpose. It's not fake. It's formed it's own niche in their program. I don't know what to make of these military camps but like most things in life you only get out what you put in. If it's well planned for a purpose and the players commit to it then they'll get a lot out of it. They've been training at Gosch's for weeks and still have plenty time left there and up in QLD for footy skills. Nothing wrong with mixing it up as well.

macca's notes basically put a line through garland as anything other than depth.

only started following football 84ish or so, when i was about 5.

Haha that was a rollercoaster of a ride with a twist at the end!

Getting back to the thread topic , great photos 666. Clearly a good photographic eye. What cameras/lenses do you use?

Maybe our three recruits from Brighton Grammar are going to play a big part in our fortunes this year? Thank you Robert Shaw for Hunt, Salem and Watts!

Not really. Lewis was probably just toeing the club line. Might've been a good adventure but he's not gonna come out and say it was a waste of time football wise on the Hawthorn website is he. Abit like listening to our boys tell us the pre-seasons been the best ever every year. Won't be long and Lewis will be on the MFC website talking about how he sees the similarities between us and Hawthorn when they were on the way up. It's all just propaganda to be gobbled up by the gullible.

Great player.

I also reckon Corey Maynard's effort to pinpoint him with the handball in traffic to start the sequence was pretty special for a rookie.

Thanks Faulty, appreciate the sentiment. Two of my many passions are photography and the mighty Demons. Happy to be able to share the combination.

When he was finally back to full fitness, he wanted to ensure he could attack the ball without fear, so went to Nev for a bit of advice and help with technique, I was surprised with his aggression but Nev said it was always there just needed switching on

He just looks untouchable when he's moving. His speed is something, but what impresses me is his courage and attack on the ball for someone you'd generally consider an 'outside player'. He's a beauty!

Whilst I don't dispute what you are saying here, I trust Goodwin and Macca to get this stuff right. They have proven themselves to be great developers of younger players and, more relevantly, of a good club culture. If they think this is important for this group, I expect it is. I get your point though.

I think it's really hard to judge the value of a particular style of training with a general view, it might help some players, it might do nothing for others, the same way some coaches work for individual players more than others. I do believe these commando type training programs are aimed more at mental strength than physical when you reach elite level sport/fitness. I think we have a really young team that is going to get better with time and hard work under what is a really strong football department these days, and I am happy to back them in to get it right

Read my previous posts... I have as many facts to back up my opinion as you do to back yours... That's why it's called an opinion & not a fact.

Given that I brought it up, let me say that I have never whinged about the mental fragility of this group of players. I have always believed that the mental side of their game would strengthen with age. I was not whinging about them doing this training either, just pointing out my belief that it has no real value. Injury becomes a real possibility doing things your body is not trained to do. As you point out, you did 15 years. That's a hell of a lot more time than a couple of days...

Chris Judd, in his autobiography, reckons these commando type camps are a complete waste of time; they only marginally help bonding, don't improve fitness and invariably lead to injuries.

We have to suffer the dross they serve up at the tennis, the racquet smashing, the squealing, the tantrums, the nonsense and after that's all over we are free and clear to the footy. I for one will be at the first women's game at Casey. Looking forward to knocking the Saints over as well. It's going to be a wild ride folks, strap yourselves in !!!!!!!