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This thread is turning into a disgrace.

Well I should have calmed down now 3 days later, but am still very angry. Poor coaching and weak effort by the players. Poor leadership as well. Inexplicable for people that want to succeed, or so we are told.

Damien Barrett last night on Footy Classified in 'analysing the game' suggested Peter Jackson order or conduct a review of the week. Included in this would be selection criteria and what unfolded during the week into the lead up. You don't have to be blind Freddy to realise and pinpoint that the FD and selection committee went against their own philosophy of playing 22 x 100% fit players. And in the lead up was every box ticked in getting the players mindset right for the game? Was the failure at coaching level and at the selection table as significant as the poor performance; did this contribute?

What does below VFL standard mean? They've all played very well in the VFL. Dunn has 'competed' at AFL for a long time. In fact I'd say he's probably been the rough standard for typical AFL key defender the last two years in a pretty ordinary team. Oscar's played 3 games and is 20 years old. Hunt hasn't debut yet. He was a project player. Good clubs have plenty of these who you've never heard of until they debut and play games after years in the system. Stretch is the type of young player good sides have in spades as well. Professional. Hard worked. Knows his role and can already perform it decently for a young player in a struggling side. Sydney have Ted Richards who's about 40 years old and Michael Talia who just got injured as key backs. They'd love to borrow Dunn from us. And I suspect they'd like to look of Oscar as well. I'm tipping Geelong wouldn't mind Billy Stretch. They took Blease as a possible outside runner. Stretch in his first year looked more composed and efficient than Blease ever did.

No. How many of those kind of losses do you need to have before you finally "learn" from them? We should have been passed this stage by now.

I really rate Stretch, i had him in my best 22 before the year started, i'd like to see him come into the side and give us some run off half back, allowing us to move Salem up the ground where he might have a bit more of an impact

If i were in charge the changes i'd make are... Bring Lynden Dunn back in right away, we need his experience and leadership down back desperately. Move Salem onto a Wing/half forward, he isn't a great defender and we really lack quality delivery inside 50 Move Hogan to CHF, his mobility is his strength so let him use it. Play one of Pedo/Frost/Dawes in the goal square with the simple role of either mark the ball, or bring it to ground and give Garlett/Kennedy/Kent a chance. Move Vince back into the midfield for more of the time, yes we're building depth but he has just won the bluey and we saw last year, he can kick long goals and delivers the ball well inside 50, we need Watts, Vince and Salem delivering the ball inside, not bombing it long. Bring in Billy Stretch, he is consistent with his effort, uses the ball well and has the pace and outside class the side desperately lacks, especially while trying to move the ball faster. have a team rule that if a young player isn't 100% fit he doesn't play, Brayshaw was clearly underdone and is a class player, we need to make sure he's right to go so we don't overcook him, same with Petracca, Oliver, Weiderman add good ball use, speed and decision making to the key aspects we're looking for in recruits for next year. play on at every opportunity, the faster we get the ball into Hogan, Watts and Garlett the better we're going to score, only go to the top of the goal score if there is no other option, always prefer high % inside 50's

Hogan is a gun centre-half-forward in the making, but for some reason they're playing him close to goal.

Body language needs to improve, no doubt. But dropping him is not the way to achieve that. I'm sure Roos, McCartney or Goodwin will address it this week. Maybe Lloyd would prefer him running around laying cheap hits on opposition players?

Talk of him leaving for Fremantle wouldn't even be happening if he played at least one good game out of the two. Because of the start he's had, posters all of a sudden have sources who know he's leaving.

Hi Guys, after 4 days of hiding we have worked up the courage to talk about last Saturdays nightmare.. Thanks heaps for the feedback also, its great to know some people are listening to it! We also spared any guests this week after the lackluster performance, but they will return next week. (hopefully after a better result) http://bit.ly/1RVKpvX

His body language last week vs the GWS in the 2nd half was fine, hell the guy was ecstatic when the siren sounded and he celebrated every goal we put through in the last quarter. A week is a long time in footy and the AFL media are cretins with a 24 hour memory span.

Already devising trade scenarios. Wow.

i was called a troll the other day for thinking he was gone . i cant see how you could see it any other way. people will refuse to see it but watch his training presser again. the discomfort he had at that line of questioning was palpable. he has put off talks. CBA excuse is bollocks, lynch just resigned as have many others. if he didnt want distractions then he wouldve wanted to be signed up before the season starts, he misses Perth. connect the dots

That's fine but we have done this now for 8 years. Comparing it to teams who to be in this position is rare for them, isnt really comparable. People have a right to feel this way, it's heading towards a decade now of performances like this. What baffles me, is that even in the first game in which we won, I am yet to see any signs of the running/attacking/taking the game on style of play we attempted during the NAB cup.

He did do it a couple of times last year, but not to the extent of Saturday's game. I remember Jaded rightly pointing out he was becoming petulant on more than one occasion last season.

I agree totally that it would help and i know he's been in touch with Carey once and Jonothan Brown a few times, i really think the issues Jesse is having are between the ears, he thinks he needs to be a match winner because he knows he's good enough, but he's forgetting to do the little things that made him such a good player like, Leading hard, repeat leads, chasing, harrassing, Tackling, getting to a heap of contests and at least bringing the ball to ground. He still has the magic touch where those handballs always seem to set up goals, he just needs to work on the basics and get those right and he'll bounce back very strongly.

Seems regardless of who took who both Parish and Oliver will go on to have very good careers for their clubs, play 200+ games and win some things, such as B&Fs. parish looked good on Saturday, almost as good as Oliver looked the week before. Good luck to both, thankfully we got one of them, unlike every other comparison where we got the dud.

Trouble is they bent us over

Parish looked like a cocky little [censored] who needs his head punched. Can play but way to early for his smug attitude.

1) Hail Roos as a genius and say the succession plan is working perfectly 2) Say we've finally turned the corner 3) Talk about our great list and mix of young and old talent 4) Praise the games of all/any of Tyson, Garland, Frost, McDonald, Watts & Hogan 5) Say we can make the 8 this year 6) Probably not post as much as I do after a loss.... I think that covers most of the current state here at Demonland?

Face time.

Your gut feeling (and that's all it is) has as much weight as my gut feeling that thinks he'll stay. Neither is worth more than the other. The only difference is that you'll say it ten times more than me. It doesn't matter how often you say it. It still won't carry any more weight.

Pm the details to me please Grape so that I can backstab posters in the future.

Neale would be good. Anyway, the players that have signed recently, they're out of contract, no? Pretty sure they're in a position to sign now and can't risk waiting for the CBA. They might end up uncontracted while the players potentially strike. If Hogan puts off contract talks "until the end of the season" at this time next year, he's gone. At this stage, it is ludicrous to really even contemplate this. But I do think he should just sign and get on with it. This is going to carry on for the next 18 months (hopefully only the next 12).

Thanks again DaleDee, I did contact the club and although the original allocation was sold out they applied for further tickets. I received a call today offering tickets in the Ricky Ponting stand bay four. Much cheaper than the AFL were offering as well. Quite satisfied with the result although after Saturday's abysmal effort maybe I should be holidaying at Cape York rather than Tassie.

Oh well then, I hope the boys have the right attitude for this weeks game. That would be nice of them. As a paying supporter, I'd be very grateful for that.

Why would we learn anything from last Saturdays game? we didn't learn anything from 186 Nothing from "Bruise Free Footy last years losses to Essendrug and Carlton taught us nothing. Even Roosy is spinning BS now "Tired going into the 2nd Round" KB & Patrick had a field day this morning...

He may be only 21 but this is his 4th year with the club. Most of that time with Roos then Goodwin and Macca. So he has as much experience as Viney and a lot more than the likes of Vand, Brayshaw, Salem etc. So I don't think we can make excuses for him based on age or maturity. I can cut him some slack on Saturday for not doing the 1% because he had treatment at the end of the 1st qtr. But he does need to think very hard about his onfield antics and the affect on teammates. And I would like to see some of our leaders: Jones, Viney, or Gawn go up to him occasionally on field and pat him on the head and say 'don't worry about it mate' just keep it simple and go for the next ball. Which is exactly what the coaches are trying to tell him. Leaders need to keep an eye on the younger guys on the field to help them when frustration sets in.

There's an element of Frawley-ism creeping back into the team. The whole "waiting for improvement" copout, while refusing to accept their own inability to compete is a big part of the problem. It was Frawley two years ago, Howe last year. I'd hate to see the same crap from Tom McDonald and Hogan from here on. Be a part of the solution, not the problem!

Since the conjecture has arisen about whether JH will re-new his contract with the MFC or not, I have held the view that money alone will not keep him at Melbourne. In my opinion, the driving force behind any decision Jesse may make, will be the performance of the team and a clear indication of progression, with the team being realistically on track to play finals in the not too distant future. While that may be a reasonable expectation for any professional footballer to have, with a view to their future job satisfaction, Jesse surely understands he has a crucial stakeholding in the direction he wants to see his side take. If he's simply ambivalent - and obviously I can't say he is or he isn't - then his long term tenure at the MFC may become a very real concern. In short, Jesse must also be part of the solution and not sit back and think he will get what he wants by his team mates doing it all for him

Criticising Jesse because of his form is only a small part of what the likes of Brereton and Lloyd are going on about. A lot of the team has not played well but his body language and his second efforts are an issue. I used to watch both Richo and Reiwoldt at Richmond carry on, sulk, sook and drop the head and even at our worst I was happy we didn't have players of that ilk playing for us. I often wondered what impact it had on the rest of the team. Now we are only two games into the season so I am not going to stamp a young Jesse Hogan in the same vein as the two I have mentioned but does he need to rid himself of that part of his game, improve his body language and work harder when the ball does not come to him the way he would like ?- absolutely.

Disagree with you on this, I think Oliver will learn much more in the cut & thrust of AFL. Going back to Casey, he will just carve it up like he did in the TAC cup...he needs to play against and learn from the best.

Jeepers, that club could put muscle on a corpse

Not any more Looks more like Popeye with those arms! He is being grossly underestimated on DL.

FFS. Read the article before commenting guys. "I've watched him live the last two weeks and his body language has been horrific," Lloyd told AFL.com.au's Access All Areas. "He's being so demonstrative towards his teammates. "He's getting out-bodied (in marking contests), but he's not even trying. He's either having a go at umpires or he's having a go at his teammates. "It's (Hogan's body language) that drastic and another week or two of that and they'll have no alternative but to send him back to the VFL." Tell me, is he wrong?

We have a perfectly good CHF. The problem is that we're playing him at FF and ruining his games by making him sit in the square and lobbing high balls onto his head. What we need to do is let Hogan play at CHF where he belongs and put the resting/spare ruck in at FF, whether that's Pedersen, Frost, Watts or King I know not. Hogan's strength is his mobility, not his power marking. We need to give him the freedom to run his man into the ground. Weideman is a long-term prospect, not a quick fix for this season.

Why cherry pick moments of the game? Its simple, the players went in unfocused and unprepared expecting a win. They were being beaten soundly by a gameplan that was meticulously planned and executed. They were shell shocked, for the entire game, no less. You could see it on their faces. This game was lost in the coaches box. Game plan changes needed to be made but barely a change was made, all day. No changes were made to enable the players to get their confidence back and we were duly pummeled as a result.

Dunn, really? The rest are young, developing players that are VFL standard and hopefully will improve to come into the firsts and play a role, they may not be ready but they are not losers yet. Thanks for all your positivity by the way.

ANB , Stretch, Frost and Dunn should all play this week. Trengove & Petracca need 3 weeks in Casey. Weideman needs to be in Casey for at least 10 weeks. Team v North ... Jetta t.mcd Dunn Salem Frost Lamumba(just) Vince Viney Stretch Vdhbrg Pedersen (just) Kennedy Gartlett HOGAN (just) Watts Gawn Tyson(just) N.Jones M. Jones Oliver Bugg ANB outs... Garland Harmes Kent Brayshaw (Gus needs 2 weeks match fitness)

Who gives a [censored]. Plays for the drug cheats and I hate his guts as a result. We all know we'd have taken him if we had pick 5 as well as 4.

This looks like another example of Watts making great position in metres of space for an easy 30m pass and then a dangerous kick into f50, but being ignored yet again.

Me too they will roll about laughing

Lloyd is right. His attitude and body language is terrible, and had this been displayed by say Watts, everyone here would be up in arms. But we seem to have some sort of Jesse complex where he is beyond criticism. I do not care how badly we deliver the ball to him or whether we are playing him out of position. He is part of a team, and he is being selfish. I remember him giving Cross a spray last year and I thought that was horrific from a kid. I like that he wants to be successful, but sooking and having a go at teammates isn't how you go about it. It's a terrible look and it needs to be nipped in the bud.

I have mentioned on here before, my best friend is good friends with Jesse and i caught up with her this morning and she said he thinks he's " overthinking it" and forgetting to do the basic things well, getting a bit frustrated it's not happening for him while still understanding that's because he's not doing the basics like leading hard and so on. The coaches are telling him just keep it simple, try and get to as many contests as possible and try not to be outmarked, if he brings it to the ground it gives Jeffy a chance. we saw in the last quarter against the Giants how good a player he is, but you'll notice there, he is much better when the forward line isn't packed and we're delivering it to him not bombing it on top of his head.

After reading this thread I’ve decided to sign up, so I suppose maybe it is a case of one soldier goes down and another steps up. Or piling up the clichés… anyway I have been reading this site for a while and enjoy the banter. Saturday made me realise what it takes to be a true supporter. Not the dismal performance of the team, but it was the first game in a long long time that I did not go with my good mate JR. You see, he died shortly before Christmas from Motor Neurone Disease, which is the mongrel thing that Neale Daniher has. Nobody knows how you get it, and there is no cure, it just destroys you from inside. JR was a passionate Melbourne man, a true believer, bordering on MFC OCD. In fact he used sign up and buy memberships for his family if they went or not. His son lives interstate, and hasn’t been to the G for years, but still has a Dad-paid reserved seat next to us! I don’t know how much JR spent supporting the club, but it was a LOT. He would travel to NT to watch us play, and rarely missed a home game. He would always buy merchandise to help the club, and always bought raffle tix. He was thrilled a couple of years ago to win Dudley’s Raffle, but as I explained to him it’s not that big a deal when you buy most of the tickets yourself! Anyway we missed the half of 2014 and all of last season as he became too ill to attend. I used to go round to watch the matches on telly with him. He would drag himself (literally) or be helped out of bed, get into his Melbourne gear and watch “our boys”. Towards the end he could barely breathe or talk but still made the effort to watch, even though it exhausted him. In his younger days he was a tough as nails “back pocket rover’’ (when such a thing existed!) and he deplored the lack of intensity which Dees had made into an artform. He used to tell them about it in his booming voice, and his humorous assessments of our play had everyone around us laughing. It made me very sad on Saturday – not just missing him – but to think what he would have made of that performance, but I still made myself feel a bit better imagining his comments during the game. We would have walked out of the ground vowing that’s it never again…etc but by the time we got home it was: see ya next week. Should auld acquaintance indeed

Delete my death threats from all 22 players on the day twitter accounts and stop sending them letters written in my blood.

Dropping him is ridiculous as we don't have anyone in the wings, but his body language has been very poor and his output minimal. Some of this is to do with him and some of it is to do with the way we are playing him. He seems to be playing too much as a traditional stay at home forward, he needs to be leading more up the ground and potentially receiving the ball on the wing and linking over the top AS WELL as playing from the 50. Reality is that is what you need from your forwards now. Daniher showed exactly that and was the difference. He is also very rarely getting hit up on the lead. Now is that him? Is it our delivery? Is it the ball movement is too slow and so the 50 is getting congested? From what I've seen its all of the above; 4th quarter GWS was the only time the 50 had space which allowed him to lead and to be hit up in the lead. Has anyone been watching him running patterns? Is he demanding the ball with strong leads? Whatever the answers to all this one thing is certain, he is better than this.

Perhaps Hoges could get some advice from him on diving routines.

The original Brothel creepers are still produced by Rossiters. Most reputable footwear retailers will stock them or be able to source them for you. At the risk of being embroiled in "questionable business practices" I have size 5 and 6 in black @ $147.00 and a range of Slatters Ripples in Stone (a light beige) @$99 but would require a fitting at the shop in Beechworth. If you wanted to expand your wine tasting experiences and retreat to Beechworth would be happy to meet. We are remote enough from Melbourne that the bitter sting of defeat by Essendon can be diluted.