Leaderboard

Well every face turned up to training today. The older group ran in groups laps of the oval. Chunk was a leader by miles. Hogan ran without that pregnant cow swagger until the last 1/2 lap when he was urged by others to finish it off hard. The swagger then raised its head again but by and large he has improved his gait out of site. Trenners was welcomed back into the fold of competitive running. Gawn was running really well and right up there with the leaders. I saw Terlich at the start but didn't see him for long. Anyone who said he had put on muscle must have been looking in the showers because from my view point he was still a runt. The then went through a series of 40m timed sprints. They all looked pretty quick, but no one broke any records that I could see. I went over to the Punt Road side and watched a few of the rehab go through some timed routines. ANB, Jeffery, Trenners were doing some 75% running exercises. ANB tweaked his left knee last week, nothing serious he said it was bandaged but didn't seem to be affecting him. Trenners seems to be running well, but I would like to see him In A couple of months and see if he can sprint. He said he should be joining in kicking with the main group before Xmas. I sai to Jeffrey what are you doing here. I don't know he replied. You don't get much out of Jeff. Chunk has recovered well from C4-C5 disc replacement, he said when it happened he couldn't raise his arm. He said he is glad he got the surgery done or next year may not have been possible. Petracca was getting the feel of football again with crosstie getting him to take overhead marks. Chunk had him kicking to long leads. Just like a high half forward would be putting it down the throat of a leading FF IMHO. The group then split up into two groups occupying each end of the ground. The then went about getting the ball out of defence. Then getting the ball back into FF. Every player started one on one and they spread as required. Apart from a few errant kicks the workout was pretty good. I left there about 3:45 so some else may add more.

Pros and cons as i see it for both Oliver.. 1. Contested ball beast, wins clearances, could easily be a Cripps or Wines type player who should have an impact right away 2. there was a knock that he might have been a bit slack early this year, he's turned that around which shows great character 3. he's certainly got some leadership potential 4. fits the direction the interchange cap is going to take the game i believe 5. finals-type player. Parish 1. Dual All Australian, proven performer over a long period of time. 2. brilliant decision making that is damaging and opens up the game for his team 3. very good on field personality/leader 4. adds a point of difference to our midfield and adds the pace and class we seriously lack 5. a great mix of inside and outside, probably the more balanced mid of the two both imo are going to be good players.

The Parish Vs Oliver scenario is serious mind-[censored]. I feel we've witnessed this type of scenario so many times in the past with results not going our way for various reasons. The old MFC would have definitely made it difficult for a player like Parish to flourish and develop the right way. But we are a different club now and I have to keep telling myself that. Having a body as slight as his will definitely limit his impact early on and I'm sure we'll hear the same 'merry-go-round' of comments in regards to Oliver's impact early in his career. Bigger body, streak of aggression etc. The fact Oliver missed out on the Vic Country side doesn't bother me. We've seen quality AFL players come through without having played in the champs. But Parish clearly does get the tick over him with the whole 'body of work' thing. It's a conundrum. It's hard to see what kind of player Parish will become. With his height, body shape and attributes. As a supporter of a club who has contributed to the failure of so many previous high draft picks with similar underdeveloped bodies, I'd almost demand he spend the entire year at Casey learning and developing his body. They're the kinds of kids that need that first year as a prep year. And they get it at the strong clubs. I understand Parish is more of an inside player than players we've drafted in previous years who have struggled to impact. But coming into the AFL with a body like his, we're going to have to play the patience game again. Which is a hard ask for Melbourne supporters. Especially for a potential number 3 draft pick. It really is a situation we've seen so many times. I'm leaning toward Oliver. I think the MFC's desire to draft bigger bodied, harder at the contest and aggressive players might override Parish's 'body of work' in this case. But fark me I have no idea what's going to happen.

We're really having this conversation, again? Mitchell, Gaff, Prestia, Hannebery, Murphy, Steven, Jones, Adams, Hill, Wingard, Shiel, Montagna, Coniglio and Viney. The quickest way to assemble a list of 'undersized' midfielders is to look at the Brownlow Medal count. I'm not saying that being shorter makes someone a better player, but if you're imagining that being around 180cm makes you inadequate for the midfield, you're a mile off the mark. As for Clayton Oliver, I'm warming to him solely on his resemblance to Brienne of Tarth. I say these things to remind myself that I (and most of everyone else) have no idea what the detailed merits of each player are, and will trust pilot to fly the plane. My preference list for the 3/7 combo is still some arrangement of Francis/Parish/Weideman.

Good work Barney. You can have a threesome with Betty and Wilma as a reward.

Had a look for a while from about 3-4:30. Didn't see Terlich, Newton, Lumumba, Vince, Spencer. Only saw Brayshaw watching. Three in the rehab group - Trenners, ANB, Jeffy. Plus Jones, Petracca. Jesse is grumpy at the moment. Angry at team mates. Seemingly holding himself back in the running. Not sure what is going on there. Still has a laugh every now and then. Wasn't happy with the [censored] kicks from some players and fair enough too. The talk might have been a bit too negative but I'd take that over the previous complacency. Up to the coaches and leaders to make sure the mix of positive and negative feedback is there. JKH repeatedly tried to do too much in drills and was repeatedly told by all and sundry to take the simple option. Viney dropped a mark, JKH picked it up, Viney went in for the tackle, JKH evaded him beautifully for a few steps, then met his mark. It's going to take something very special to slip Jack from a tackle. Grimes was training well. Looks well also. Mitch White looked even better. So did Jack Watts. Dunn hasn't missed the buffet, but he's always looked that way. Jayden Hunt found the ball in a few drills. Runs well and marks strongly on a lead. Unfortunately, is one of those who can't kick. Might be getting better but seems a low base. I notice a couple of well timed spoils from Melksham, he does have good reach, the half back idea might just be a winner. Kent, Dawes, Vanders, Melksham, Hogan and King did a few repeat 300's. Not sure what they did to deserve it. Kent led out the first few, then Dawes took over. Not a lot of distance between the first 5. Unfortunately Kingy still looks like a sure thing to get your money back in a cup sweep, he struggles to stay with the others. It was a good session from what I saw and a heavy focus on skills under pressure and quick sharp decision making.

Fixed.

Parish’s highlights are magnificent and he suits our need for outside run. However, I query if his game is that well suited to the congested nature of AFL football, where there are 80 stoppages per game and formation team defence. Parish may well develop sufficient strength and size to play a role like Heppell, Murphy or even Ablett Jnr, but his lack of size is a clear risk and there is a chance he doesn’t play 100 games. Oliver has a lot of traits of modern footballer – hard, strong, big body, agile, good hands and decent skills. He will also benefit significantly from being in a full time AFL environment. Our midfield has added a lot of similar types recently in Brayshaw, Vandenberg and hopefully Petracca, but still I feel Oliver is a relatively low risk option and we should look to minimise our drafting mistakes. Francis is probably my favourite option (besides Schache and Weitering) but he probably plays a role we have a surplus of (key defender/third tall) and he has flight risk given he is from SA. His marking and kicking is superb and he looks an AFL footballer already. Weideman looks a massive gamble given his injury history. I am also not as strong on the need for a key forward as the majority on Demonland. I think small forwards can be just as valuable and Betts, Wingard, Breust and Tory Dickson all finished top 10 in the Coleman last year with 50 goals plus. Milera looks a real talent and is probably more outside than Parish. But he looks quick and suited to an outside midfielders role at AFL level. He would play straight away given our lack of outside run and the fact that he has played senior footy in the SANFL. I would prefer him to Curnow or Weideman. Curnow looks a little like Jarryd Roughead and Jack Darling, but also a little like Matthew Bate. He looks an undersized key forward and talk of him being a midfielder is based on his endurance and body size rather than performance. I hope we go for Oliver or Francis at 3 and then go for whoever remains out of Oliver/Francis, Parish or Milera at 7. If they are all gone, we take a key forward.

I wonder if the Bombers are trying to suck us into taking Weideman with 3. Worsfold today in an Age article, is hinting at them loading up on forwards in the draft. I think they want Oliver and are hoping we pass on him.

Oliver shone in the strong GVFL senior competition in 2014 as a 16/17 year old. He played 11 games in the midfield, kicked 9 goals and was named in the best on 6 occasions. He played 6 of the 11 games as a 16 year old - against men. He's from Echuca, where his Father also played football and his Mother netball. Todd Viney lived in Echuca for years and I suspect he knows a great deal about Oliver and his pedigree. Maybe he doesn't want to let another Ollie slip. And he seems to play in a very similar fashion, although he has better pace and sideways movement.

I shudder when I read comments like this. Football talent is the only consideration when it comes to drafting midfielders.

You've just described Barry Prendergast. Wanted to show he was smarter than anyone else. Boy, that worked well. What I like about Quigley is he gives a really good outline of the player. Calls it as he sees it and provides us information. If he was that good he'd be on a recruiting team somewhere. The fact that he isn't means he's just an average observer IMO. Not that I care, I enjoy him.

He looks like copping the ultimate punishment for his mistake, being drafted by Carlton.

I agree Oli hasn't seen him play live. The first time he referenced him was a youtube clip, followed by comments along the lines of "we have to get this guy". If he'd seen him play live it would have been a different narrative and he would have said so. He would have jumped at the chance to say he'd seen him live. He didn't. It's telling. That said, I'm prepared to give the poor bugger his moment in the sun.

I'll say this again for the last time. Taylor said the other night that they didn't trade up for a particular player, but rather to improve their draft position to take the best available, which was then undecided.

Weideman was just featured on Channel 9 news - grandpa and dad interviewed too. Grandpa: 'Oh, he'll go in, he goes in, he don't care. He's got that guts about him.....' 'I'd love him to play at Melbourne - Barassi would be rapt with that...' Like.

Kent's kicking action is pure.

They're not unfortunately. The Oppo worked out pretty early on the Hogan was the only real threat (along with his mate Garlett) and he was having to work extra hard for his kicks. He's up for it but we will be a much better unit if we can spread the load.

I can only go by the type of player Id like to see do well. After too many years of watching tough inside scrums and hard fought spartan efforts (and thats from our good players) Id like to watch clean hands, clever vision and accurate passes. I would like polish and thats Parish.

I meant in addition to, not centering around. Adding Prestia to small mids in Jones, Viney, ANB, Stretch, JKH, Kent, Kennedy, Bugg, Salem and even Garlett etc, would give us a mosquito fleet of small mids. I don't think another is the priority. I think Roos and Goodwin would like a couple more in the AVB, Petracca and Brayshaw mould.

Shots of him at the Combine suggest he's already toned down and well on the way to developing an AFL-ready body.

He's not the only bloke to change his mind with increased research and exposure to the available talent. I've changed my mind almost on a daily basis. I want Francis at 3 but I'm not prepared to miss on both Oliver and Parish which may happen. I'm not sold on needing 2 key forwards, few teams have them. Diversity is the key because it provides unpredictability and the ability to target opposition defences weaknesses. It's what Hawks do so well. I'm happy with Weideman at 7 if he's a genuine 7. I don't want him just because he's tall.

Anyone else think Oliver looks like Lance Whitnell (excuse spelling if wrong)?

Love it, and agree with everything. This is why this draft is so intruiging, and will be watched by many draft fans. I might sit down and have a Gaytime myself. Only because there's no Eskimo Pie's around. Seriously who made that decision!

Gotta love the term "word is". Just tell us who you heard it from, and we can read the BS meter.

No, it is similar to being 6th in line with three or four Cornettos left and you get to third in line so you get a Cornetto. Because you identified the Cornetto as the best choice available and didn't want to leave it to chance that you will be stuck with a caramel Magnum.

I like Quigley's write up on Aaron Francis. I agree with it, it just makes so much sense. I have him at pick 7, I can see why he's rated him at 3. I keep thinking back to my initial thoughts on his character, his interview as well as his ever-so-noticeable footy strengths as discussed in the Francis thread.

Saw him playing Playstation whilst peeping through his window probably.

He wasn't the only one. I saw a few phantoms with both ANB and OMac in the early 20's.

It's not...we don't have any real 'A' graders, a couple like Jones and Vince on the edge, Tyson and Viney maybe ready to step up a notch, Trekkers hopefully, Salem ready to move in, then another bunch led by Brayshaw at the start of there career. This is what happens in a developing team down in the bottom part of the ladder. Add another 1 or 2 mid kids in the draft is not going to change much for us next season. What will is the development of the kids we have. We have plenty of mids, will we get some 'A' graders and maybe a elite out of the bunch we have. I'm pretty hopeful.

We didn't "trade up" to take Oliver. A month out from the draft nothing was set in concrete. We traded up to improve our position in the draft. We traded up to get the highest position we could and ultimately secure the best talent, as deemed by us, on draft day. No-one is leaking, but my educated guess from a couple of private things is that we'll take Oliver.

If I were Jason Taylor I'd select Weideman at #3, then the best mid available at #7. Fortunately for everybody I'm not, so I'll just sit back and be happy with whoever we end up with.

He's back. Quigley's Draft Rankings He'll get some wrong and plenty won't agree, but he has an exceptional eye for talent.

So because we don't have trading on draft day (yet) - clubs cannot target players? If ever there was a year to target a player at 3 it is this year - there have been two players seemingly set in stone at 1 and 2 since before trade week.

People talking about Parish's lack of size; you all saw Billy Stretch a few years ago and what he has/is becoming now.. You know they don't always stay that size forever right?

I think we are already set up well for the future, this draft will be the cream on the top...

Yeah the highlights on draft machine are enough to deliver a statement like that with confidence. FFS.

dazzledavey36, on 26 Oct 2015 - 8:02 PM, said: That was before I watched Oliver's highlight reel. I rate them both over Mr 14 average disposal Curnow. Not enough of an impact for a top 10 prospect. J Howe had more of an impact Edited by olisik, 26 October 2015 - 08:07 PM. Watching him on youtube clips does not count as watching him live. Grow up and stop speaking [censored] for once olisick

that's what i thought too then i realised that they probably lost half their financial records too

I don't buy the notion of trading up to pick 3 for a specific player. It goes against the notion of smart recruiting which is to never go for the messiah pick and to believe in continually good spotting of talent and good development from there on in. Jason Taylor explained the rationale of the trade to get pick 3 this year instead of next year and to get the development started and a culture built. I'm inclined to take him at his word. If we don't pick Oliver now then I'm a little confused as to why 3 journos in a row who all had different opinions have jumped on him. Unless Emma went with it and Sam and Cal followed her in? We hopefully learnt from the Ollie Wines scenario not to leak interest in another kid and then have it bight you on the butt. I'd hate Oliver to go elsewhere now because if we then did pick Parish or otherwise at 3 we'd hear about it for a long time.

Neither Francis and Curnow are mids and they have are desperate for mids. They need tall forwards too, but at least one of 4 or 5 will be a genuine mid, not a mid on a hope and a prayer. Stanton and Watson are geriatrics. The utility Goddard is old too. Cooney is a crock. Hocking's a tagger. Myer a scrubber. Zaharakis has been disappointing the last two years and presents best as a high half-forward/mid. Merrett is a quality small mid/forward. The older Brother's ordinary. Colyer is a pygmy. Heppell is very good and that's about it.

Batten down the hatches, Olisik may blow an o-ring.

Highlights not really a great guide. Have only seen Weideman in a couple of Academy hit outs, but he's the stronger contested mark of the two. Leads well and also hits packs hard. Will also win his share of one v ones. Very courageous. McKay is more of a lead up player, getting more of his touches between the arcs. Has won more of his one v ones due to height advantage rather than strength, which he still has to build as a virtual bottom ager. His twin, Ben is more of the pack crashing type and a bit more aggressive, but Harry doesn't shirk contests. I'd say Weideman has stronger forward craft at this stage than McKay, but McKay is not only younger in age, but also in experience in elite level junior football environment.

Very brave of you to announce it online.Good for you Dazzle.

Oliver reminds me a fair bit of Moloney, with how he gets possession then generally kicks long. In his highlights video I would have liked to see more of a balance between going long and picking out targets. Parish is much better at finding a target. I reckon Bummers supporters must be doing their heads in with who we are going to take at 3. We have enough inside bulls already - time for some polish and class.

Frost should have been included as a defender.

Happy for us to draft him on his name alone.

DR J D. I think that last bit is close to the mark. The 'massaging' of the truth. Firstly I must make it clear the AFL tribunal was a joke , a sham, a contrived circus. It was funded by the AFL ...it was loaded with AFL sympathetic adjudicators with an outcome prescribed by the AFL. None of the 3 learned ones did the world any favours there.At that event it would have been the style to indeed present a version of the truth which worked with the desired outcome. No one was going to ask any awkward questions. No one wanted to join dot a with b . It would have run like a daytime soap. Now we have the antithesis in play. The players called before will have needed to wear antisquirm undies as the questioning will have got a lot more pointy. In the first instance the AFL set the agenda and effectively approved the scope and as such the lines of questioning. The AFL designed the relevance to suit.Anyone suggesting otherwise really can't live in this town. CAS has a simple function. To arbiter disputes. It has no favourite. It listens , it asks and it deliberates before making it's judgement and any applicable asides as to penalties. Its free of the constraints of a proprietary tribunal. Players, indeed anyone called before this court, may well find themselves in unfamiliar territory. CAS just wants the facts and as much of them as can be mustered in order to arrive at the truth. That's the goal at CAS...the truth. The goal of the AFL tribunal was a satisfactory outcome. Players will have had to face a much more determined counsel in Young. They had better had worn their brown corduroys. The boys were facing WADA now. They were playing an away game with no home ground advantages.

you WHAT?

I thought everyone in Tasmania was related..