Leaderboard

Ok I spoke to Howie at training this morning, told him what was going on in the media, he hadn't seen any of it, spent the morning just relaxing before training The Pick 7 was on the table for him just before the end of Trading He rejected the move, yes I asked his permission to post that here, he says to assure supporters he ain't going anywhere

not so interested in size - has anyone put on any skill over the break ?

wona did that consistently over breaks

Can you ask Chip if he's staying?

Just a few observations from training. -I won't talk about the drills really. They moved from close in drills with handball to move further and further out to longer kicking drills. They were no real forwards, mids, backs, everyone did everything. -I was quite impressed with frost. He is tall and big and a very good mover. Had a few kicked to him too high and jumped and stretched to pull them in at the highest point. His kicking appears ok. -H looks fit and in all the drills quite sharp considering it was his first session. He does look very different in red and blue. He really has great agility and in all the drills moved quickly. I'm happy to have a player like him playing for us. Between drills he got around to a lot of different players for a quick few words. I liked that he was really focusing on the younger guys that haven't been around long like king and hunt. -king does look bigger but still has a way to go, especially when standing next to frost. He does appear to be a very good kick. He is well down the pecking order but hopefully he has a good run with injury and has a good year. -Kent looks fit. Something that really stood out to me was he did a clearance drill with just viney and Goodwin working on body positioning. It was just these 3 whilst others were doing other things. He also after all the drills finished did 300m sprints with McDonald whilst everyone else went to the Anderson st hill. Kent is definitely preparing for some movement to the midfield. To me, you can really see that roosy is true to has word in developing our young players properly. Viney not spending all his time in the centre, Kent being groomed properly, seasoned bodies being brought in to protect the kids. -I'm a huge jetta fan and have been for years. I have chatted to him quite a few times over the years and he is pretty honest about himself. I just like the way he plays. I'm a fan of his aggression. Chatted to him again today. He is getting bigger in the legs and is stronger through the core. I don't believe he is resting on his laurels after getting back on the list. I hope he has a huge year. -gawn is a huge man and looks bigger than last year. He did the rehab stuff and then did timed runs of various distances and laps. - lots not there today including jamar, jones, Jkh, Dunn, garlett, spencer and I didn't see tappscott. Was a few others as well.

The bit where you can't understand why people might not want to be on a stage, or have the absolute crap battered out of their body while being a long way from home. You have an amazingly narrow view of the world. I know this may come as a shock C & B, but not everyone shares your dream or obvious envy of AFL footballers.

No early appointments for me today and so I turned up to training first hour. The first hour was a tough fitness session with all players sweating it out. Endurance running and sprint routines were the measure of the morning. I was very impressed with the size, speed and endurance of The Hulk. Hogan kept pace with McDonald in the 5 minute run and then passed him in the last 20 seconds. This is very impressive for a big bloke who missed a whole year of endurance running against arguably our fittest, endurance player. I was also impressed with the size of Frost. This guy is a Man Mountain. I hope he can play because he sure has the physic. When I left players were changing into footy boots, no doubt other will be able to give a more interesting account. I have tried to upload some photos. Having some issues. Would appreciate the heads up on how to do this.

When is it a "reach"? Is it when you pick the best available and it's contrary to the phantom drafters?

If we lose Jones when he wants to stay, we deserve to be bottom feeders for eternity. Sort it out and move on.

The question is which Frawley are we losing and which one is Hawthorn gaining? The player who hit AA heights in 2010 or the one scarred by the events of the intervening years whose form and seemingly his interest and passion for the club declined after he received those offers from the big clubs? I have no doubt that had he stayed and been fully committed to the cause, he would most likely have been a player of good value for the remainder of his career but probably unlikely to hit the heights of 2010. At Hawthorn, with a lot of very good players around him and a member of a well oiled machine with less individual pressure on his shoulders he'll be a valuable player to them. But I don't see his loss as the loss of the 2010 variety Frawley; rather of the one we saw in 2014 and I will not mourn the loss of a player whose contribution was far less than what was expected of him. Similarly, I don't judge the loss of Clark as the shining light and outstanding goalkicker of the first half of 2012 but instead, we have lost someone who contributed four games early in 2013 and nothing since. The way I look at it, the storm has passed and we have to look to the future. Frawley, Clark and most of the early draft picks we've recently jettisoned are part of our imperfect past. It's now all about what we do with the players we've brought in and with the picks at our disposal but overall and looking at the 10 primary listed players and one rookie no longer at the club, I think we're already well in front and that our gains will far outweigh our losses.

H will play his 200th game in his first dees game. Lets hope it is round one and the boys do it for their old cobber.

Right. And there's also tens or perhaps hundreds of cases of caucasian players wanting to go home. In your original post (which I criticised for being racist), you collected all indigenous players (under the umbrella "these guys"), and then made a bunch of blanket statements and assumptions about their individual characters, attitudes and playing styles based on their membership of that group... which is the very definition of racism. Making assumptions about a person based on their race. For every example of an indigenous player that wanted to leave (Dom Barry) you can find another who wanted to stay (JKH). For every example of an indigenous player who was an attack-only downhill skier (Jurrah) you can find another who is a defensive beast (Nev Jetta). There is no basis in fact to make the assumptions about 'these guys' that you're making. And the term "racist" doesn't in this case mean that you hate them and want them eliminated through genocide or anything extreme like that, it simply means that you're making (incorrect) assumptions about them based on their race. I doubt the claim that indigenous players represent a significantly increased drafting risk would be backed by the statistics (though I don't have access to them to check - and I suspect you don't either).

This guy could be anything. How some supporters think he is dispensable is beyond me. A multi-dimensional medium that can play tall or smaller. With a better tank, can rotate through the midfield. Should command $$$ in a year's time IMO.

Useless post.

This is why we'll never get out of the bottom 4. Players in their prime leaving while the good clubs keep their guns. Dunn is the only senior/good player of note that has stayed loyal, and full credit to him. (So has Grimes but you can tell he genuinely loves the club) Can you imagine how bad we'll be in 2016 if we lost both Jones and Howe.

Glass half full kinda guy?

Take it from me you don't get ripped lifting a beer glass

I've got a good feeling about Kent's upcoming season. I'm keeping him as a smokey as a cheap option for DT.

would love to see ooze back at the club in the near future.

You're right.It's not every day, it's every year that a player from the draft is compared to a bonafide star of the AFL. And I can guarantee you there'll be another forward next year who will draw comparisons from some other AFL star forward. I can also say I'm supremely confident we won't be drafting McCartin given the fact that our club is stuck at the bottom because of our lack of midfield depth and talent. Don't know how people continually miss that fact. Petracca Brayshaw Lever If cockatoo were selected, I'd also be over the moon.

We must keep our boys in this age bracket or we will keep staying at the bottom of the ladder. We must stop this draft pick crap were we bring kids and hope they save the day. 22 to 28 is when you get a return out of your investment. I want Howe to stay a demon.

For all you dreamers, wannabe recruiters, and draftee "experts", this is your chance to state your drafting order ahead of the 2014 AFL National Draft. We will do it as the club would (and all other clubs) come draft night. We'll write down our exact orders to select the draftees and if any are selected prior they are crossed off the list and the next in order will be taken. Now this is quite easy this year considering we are dealing with pick 2 and 3, although hopefully in years to come this exercise will get harder as we climb the ladder. It doesn't matter if you know next to nothing about the draft, or if you've watched every highlights package, read every stats sheet, or have been to numerous games, this is just for fun. So now the question is who has the Midas touch or Marty McFly's sports almanac? We'll find out in a few years -------------------------------- Here's mine: 1. Christian Petracca 2. Angus Brayshaw 3. Nakia Cockatoo Why (only if you want to): I consider Petracca and Brayshaw currently the best two talents and both blue chip selections meaning they are most likely to progress well and succeed at the AFL level. As for Cockatoo, he had produced similar games in his past but we just didn't see enough of him this year, I think if we had he would certainly be in everyone's top 3 or 5 equations. He practically has it all, strength, evasiveness, vision & poise, speed, the skills (accurate kicking and clean hands/ both sides), and an excellent attitude. He can play on the outside or get his hands dirty on the inside, he also has a nice leap and can certainly take a mark. As for those mouth watering highlight packages that potential draftees take the entire season to generate, Cockatoo produced his from one game. By obtaining at least one blue chip above I believe Cockatoo is certainly worth "the risk" (foot and lack of 2014 exposure) and finally I feel he's miles ahead of the next few midfielders (for those going by "needs") and likely ready to go come 2015. Who just misses your cut? 4. Patrick McCartin: As much as I would love to see he and Hogan develop and line up next to each other for the next decade, Cockatoo has won me over. -------------------------------- Additional information regarding bios, stats, and highlights can be found here: http://www.afl.com.au/draft/draft-machine

Yze heads back in big coaching step forward Well done Ooze and good luck to him in his new role. I'd love to see him back at the Dees one day.

I love reading this stuff from the likes of GNF and Qwerty30 but generally take it with a grain of salt because I hope no-one in the FD would leak recruiting info to the general public - it's too vital. However when roads start to point in the same direction maybe there is some fire where there's smoke. FWIW, I happened to bump into a bloke I know on the train last night who is very well connected at the club and I mentioned this post and the De Goey reference and he just smiled and said "you might think that, I couldn't possibly comment".

I love the muscle definition on Bernie Vince ... NOT.

Dean Kent looks huge! Trimmed down, too.

I went again, quick run down, warmup, kick, run, handball, kick, run, mark, kick, handball, run.....the skills are on the improve Going to put some photos on my Twitter, Demonpk, including Hogan Mr Lumumba was there, looks super fit, had a chat to him, lovely guy Bernie Vince acknowledged the shoulder was a bit light, no contact till January for him First time seen McKenzie and Jetta, both looking really fit although McKenzie has had the gastro that has been floating around the club Had a good chat to Nev, he has been working out at a boxing gym three days a week over the break, and on his running, disappointed that Dom Barry chose to leave, had a chat with him whilst Dom was deciding what to do, said Dom was coachable, a professional trainer etc etc, contrary to some of the rubbish on here Had a chat to Howie, posted in the Leaving topic

It's not unfathomable. It's because he's gone and changed colours.

What appears to be an overs deal today will not seem that way this time next year. We have room in our cap this year so we should use it to redress the past and make sure his future is secured.

First priorities Suns out = Guns out... Kicking comes second

I can't believe after how many draft picks we shank that people still continue to over-value them so much. Howe can play the game and play it well, I have no doubts about that. He was played in a completely foreign position to him last season and I thought he progressed well. Even when we were in our darkest periods he still nearly kicked 30 goals playing in the forward line and is a contested mark machine. He is durable with games (only missing one over the last couple seasons), is now quite flexible being able to play up and back and deep in each of these positions if need be with his incredible contested grabs and his speed on the turf when crumming and of course is a marketers dream. Easily a starting 18 player and some people want to trade him for a speculative pick... again!

Lumumba is back! From Club website: HERITIER Lumumba has started training with his new club – a few days earlier than expected. The 2010 Collingwood premiership player was set to start with Melbourne on Monday, but fronted up for Friday’s training session at Gosch’s Paddock. Lumumba looked sharp as he joined in with his new teammates. The 199-gamer crossed from Collingwood during the October trade period. The 2010 All-Australian finished fourth in Collingwood’s best and fairest in 2014. Lumumba looms an integral part of Melbourne’s prospects next year and in the coming seasons. Fab pics of players training today: http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2014-11-14/exclusive-lumumbas-first-training-run The shoulder injury (naturally) seems to have caused Bernie some muscle loss but all the players look in good nick!

I spoke to an Essendon supporter i work with this morning and he is still convinced Essendon have done nothing wrong, Asada having nothing and are bluffing, and there won't be bans. it's like the supporters are also on the juice.

get it done MFC Dont stuff around for christs sake, this guy is literally our heart and soul

Macartin pick 2 and brayshaw pick 3 lock it in guys.

He takes a LOT of unbelievable marks. But I would prefer to see 10 marks a week leading out hands in front of the face rather than 1 mark of the year every two weeks. I thought the move to defense was good in that he saw a lot more of the ball and was more involved. He did some fine spoiling and intercepts. But he still has a way to go.

this He's good ( on song ) but he hasnt proved to be 'that' be all all-round performer. More theatrical than irreplaceable for mine. Pull your finger out Jeremy and just play footy

IMO He is an average footballer who takes the occasional unbelievable Mark. I think at the right price he is a keep. However in today's AFL he is trade able for the right deal. It is just the world we now live in, I don't like this world However I have no choice.

Interesting that you had to go back as far as Chis Grant - he was offered huge money to move ...wait for it.... 1996 - that's 18 years ago ! So for every one player that is loyal there are two more that are not ? damning statistic. (tongue in cheek post - but the sad truth is that there are very few Grants and Flowers in the AFL these days - its a business)

Telling spelling. 'Quixotec' sounds like an excellent name for the company that Jimmy might need to start once he's been bounced from the coaching job.

And you weren't bowled over by the heady aroma of hubris? When they've actually achieved anything beyond a few years of pillaging the draft their opinion might count for something.

This notion/idea is a fairy tale. Let's go to actual data Billings/Plowman/Tyson/Day/Martin/Hill/Masten/Hansen/Ellis/Griffen/Sylvia That's 11 years of draftees at pick 3 - I know that it is too soon for the last 3 years ( although many on Demonlanders are prepared to make a set in stone career prediction on some footballers based on one season). A total of one AA nomination for Griffen in 2013. That is out of 66 chances - meaning the strike rate over the last 11 drafts that the player will be AA standard is a whopping 1.5%. I conservatively hope that we get a week in week out solid player - looking at the bunch above it looks like we traded in the best pick 3 in Tyson ( arguments can be mounted for an inconsistent Hill and Griffen). I dream of getting an AA standard player. Edit - interesting I just researched pick 2 Kelly/Orourke/Coniglio/Bennell/Trengove/NicNat/Cotchin/Gumbleton/Thomas/Roughead/Walker Lots of busts there as well - 5 all Australians out of a possible 66. One footballer who I would call an out and out champion - Roughead (Richmond would mount an argument for Cotchin). Does this explode the myth that we are "guaranteed" of getting guns at 2 and 3 ?

There's no doubt he can play and he is most likely going to go back to being one of the best one-on-one defenders in the game again, which is why he is so prized. Lake is in his last season, Schoenmakers is not from what I can tell the answer, so Hawthorn had the problem of what they are going do at full back beyond 2015 and were willing to fork out to get him. Why I think getting Pick 3 for him is a good result has nothing to do with whether he is necessarily a good player or not, it is that last year he spent the season as a roaming CHF because we were able to complile a reasonably good defensive setup without him and if we can format a good back six without him going forward, to be able to get Pick 3 for him isn't a bad result If most people submitted their best 22s for Round 1, 2015 many, even with Frawley off the list, won't have Colin Garland in it, who would have but for missing a game won the 2013 B+F and they'd have Dunn, Frost and McDonald as the three key defenders, with Jetta, Grimes and Lumumba or Howe in it. Does it concern you so much not having Frawley in that context? Obviously things go wrong and football isn't predictable but if Dunn holds down full back and there was some evidence - his blanketing of Cloke and Schulz in particular - that suggested to me that he may be able to with some success and the outrageously long four-year deal the club gave him suggests they think he can, are we losing that much. If the back six plays well for the next four or five years without Frawley then we can come of it the other side with a pick 3 with half his career left to play. It's not an issue of other club's judgment either. Every team in the comp would want Frawley for nothing and many would have been in the fight. It's a situation where we lose a player and its a lucky thing that the system has allowed us to make the best of it. Personally, given our current defensive stocks I'm happy to bargain the loss of Frawley for a roll of the dice at one of the better pure full forwards to come through the TAC Cup in a while.

Both Crows and Port now own their own Liscence. Both Clubs paid Millions to take back ownership from the SANFL. This one off huge cost would be factored into any financials for the past year. Both Clubs are also re negotiating their AO terms with the SMA. They are asking for the same ( or similar) returns to the Clubs hiring out the MCG. Once these terms are negotiated, then we will see both Clubs return to profit. Keep in mind that Port are coming from a long way back and have accrued major debt over the last 5 or 6 years. They have struggled to sell their Corporate Facilities as well. Kochie and KT have done a tremendous job, but here is still some way to go.

Pick 7 for Howe could not have been offered. The only thing more unbelievable is we knocked it back.

*Waits for BBO to come comment as this no doubt will have set off the text-alert he has for 'Biffen'*

That is rubbish, where did you hear that, I spoke to Straussy towards the end of the year, he was disappointed in himself he couldn't put it together, and besides that I actually saw Roos speaking to him at training

Doesn't say much for Kochies business expertise.

He is doing himself a favour by trying to find a vocation he 'wants' to do, and he is doing his employer a favour by not letting this continue. Everyone seems to be overlooking the fact that we have recruited a few other players that haven't been 'up' for the life of an AFL footy player, but they are happy to coast along and get delisted after a few years. Here a boy says 'this isn't for me' and lets us know before we waste more time, and we are preoccupied with the general motives of football players of his race, rather than the mark of this individual making a good decision for himself and the club.

I've got a contact at the club who is involved with the recruiting and drafting and I just thought I'd let you know that the issues you've been discussing here are exactly those that are being debated at the club at the moment. I've been told that Brayshaw is a lock for 2 but I think everyone knows that but pick 3 has narrowed down considerably over the last few weeks as a result of the interviews they have conducted. Initially McCartin was the front runner as they wanted to add depth to the KPF situation and they realize this is one of the few chances they will get to pick a big class forward. And they reckon he would work really well with Hogan although that will be a few years away. They are comfortable with Dawes doing that role for the next few year but have doubts about his ability to do it in the longer term. But at the last meeting they discussed his medical situation and now have their doubts. The two players now most under consideration are Lever and Jordan De Goey who have edged in front of McCartin. Lever is a real talent but there is still some concern over his knee and they really like that De Goey is a real goer and is a big bodied the midfielder Roos likes. The other one who hasn't been ruled out is Nakia Cockatoo because of all the players in the draft he has as much skill and X factor as anyone but his lack of exposed form is a real issue. Roos is torn because he can see the kids talent but hates taking risks. At this stage the value bet is De Goey although they still have some interviews to do with coaches and so forth but if you wanted to have a punt he'd be a good value bet. They still have a couple of meeting to go and Taylor and Viney will make their final presentations a couple of days before the draft. I can say that a line has been ruled through Wright and Laverde as both just don't tick enough boxes. Anyway I thought you'd be interested. If I hear anything else I'll pass it on. Reality is that a lot of the things said here are spot on the money other than the rather surprising status of De Goey.