Leaderboard

Rogers Ramblings: After much cutting and pasting in recent weeks (thanks Tassie) I thought it high time to squeeze in a training session and have gone for quantity over quality. Being the last night before Febfast, I could not entertain typing stuff last night. I got there a little late but looked to have only missed on some stretching. The drills all looked clean and sharp so I looked mostly at what the smaller groups were doing. I watched the ruck group (Spencer, Gawn, King and Jamar) for some time with the big Spencil looking primed for Round 1. The drills were designed to work on technique, then later, backing up after the hitout. Spencer was reasonably dominant in this but one observation is that once hes out of the contest, thats it easy for his opponent to tap straight to his mid. Jamar was much better at impacting the hitout even when he knew he couldnt win the tap. A couple of times he was even able to sneak his big mit in there at last nanosecond and win the tap when seemingly out of the contest. One thing I noticed about Gawn (last year) was he would continually bend right down to brace against or give himself leverage against stronger ruckmen. Unfortunately his usual height advantage would be completely nullified. This time around hes looking a lot stronger but Im not seeing him maximise his height advantage just yet, but too early to tell. King is the best kick of the four and looks a bit of a prospect. He was completely out bodied and out muscled, then exhausted but he kept at it and even won a couple of hitouts. I then watched Dawes and Hogan have a really good workout with Rawlings. They were doing a lot of work on leading patterns, repeat leading followed up with short passes into 50. One drill started in the forward pocket with both players starting together then sprinting in opposite directions to the fence. One would go to the goal fence the other the hff fence. Theyd touch the fence, sprint back on a lead, Rawings would kick to the one on the hff who would then short pass, at speed to the other. Then they might do a push-up after hitting the fence and sprint to lead. After repeating this endless times theyd sprint to present as a target to the main sessions full ground drill. Exhausting stuff. I couldnt split them for drive and intensity. For the whole time I was watching, Hogan missed one mark and a difficult worm-burner at that jeez he was down on himself for missing. Fitzy was with them for a time, but a withdrew for some laps. On that note, Fitzy was used as a target for some of the full ground drills took some great diving marks from ordinary delivery and quickly dished off. Earned himself a bit of applause. I had a quick look at the drill of about eight players where you keep handballing around and can only tackle your opponent. The drill is supposed to be about blocking but I didnt see much of it. Looking at Watts, you can see the lift in intensity and the effort hes putting in, but sheesh, tackling is such as afterthought with him usually that fraction too late. Early days though. The Scratch Match: As to expected with the first hitout a very messy affair. The standouts for me were Tyson, Vince and Cross. Note, I was at one end of the ground and couldnt see a lot at the other. I was watching Watts very closely (his opponents were Vince and briefly Jordie). Watts got a free or two at the start to look dominant but that was probably about it. At one ball-up in front of us Vince got 15 metres away from Watts before he even realised Vince got the clearance. In another passage of play Vince lost him again and there was 50 metres between them. I was watching him (Watts) run though the middle with no opponent (possibly shaking my head and questioning this midfield experiment) with Vince down in the forward line, around the footy. Watts looked to be heading to pick-up someone (anyone) when I heard Roos yell out Stay where you are Wattsy. The moral of that ditty is it was just a scratch match and Watts was a step ahead of the play as it turns out. My first real look at Tyson suggests he was a bargain. Hes just a cut above the rest IMO and a huge acquisition. I love the thought of Tyson, Viney and N Jones at the centre bounces. Tyson has all the tricks with good disposal, great vision and outstanding hands that I hope translates to a lot of clearances down the track. Cross was just a picture of composure. His body strength gave him time to dispose of the ball cleanly, even with someone hanging off him. These guys (noticeably all in their first year at the club) stood out mainly because they played with purpose and knew what they had to do. The rest were just a blob of midfielders with the odd nice piece of play (one from N Jones, Barry and Evans off the top of my head). Again, its just a scratch match so very rusty but it will take them some time to gel with each other. There was a good defensive effort (as far as is possible when youre not really tackling), but they tended to revert to type when under pressure by getting pushed further and further back and making poor decisions. This may also be in part to the ground. It was 16 a side, but looked ridiculously crowded to me. Anyone know what the ground dimensions are? Kent was pretty good too. I was surprised he even played as he didnt join in many of the other drills if any. At one point N Jones gave Dunn the biggest gobful not sure what he did, but Jones not happy at all. The rucks for the scratch match were Spence and King one sided as youd expect, but I do like the look of King kills Spencer in the co-ordination stakes. Extra training: Quite a number stayed behind to do some extra work. JKH and Cross did some goal kicking. JKH didnt miss too many but probably struggles over 40 metres. Goes at it 100% - every aspect of training! Love it. Pedersen joined it a bit later. Nicho was standing on the goal line kicking the ball to anyone who wanted a shot just a bit of extra kicking practice I assume. Spencer was doing some extra work on marking contests with Stafford with Jamar looking on. Howe was lobbing a few in and Spencer pole-axed him (Staf) at one point got a few laughs. Thats about it off the top of my head apart from the fact that I love the look of Michie too.

With thanks to tasmanlvr over at BigFooty... TGIF! A morning at Gosch's to start somewhat of a lukewarm morning which should get better. Are we already at the end of January? Two weeks until NAB Challenge, guys! Imagining that James Frawley's contract talk will dominate discussion at Gosch's this morning. Inb4 nine year, $10 million deal which is also heavily backended. Overheard: so I learned that it's Alex Georgiou's birthday tomorrow, and it was mentioned, to which he responds 'Is it tomorrow?' Classic Georgiou. Jesse Hogan and Jack Fitzpatrick rejoin the main group! Brilliant news! Rehab: Viney, Riley, Clark and Terlich, who had a huuuuuuuge knee strap on Wednesday. Dean Kent also doing little despite wearing training jumper. Stretches and runthroughs to start with. Solid crowd building up at Gosch's. Short kicks following the stretches. Bit of grappling and upper body drills. Jack Trengove getting a bit of attention to his hip. A bit precautionary I expect. More wrestling exercises. One of the most impressive things you notice is you hear the contact that the players make 50m away. King, Spencer, Jamar and Gawn isolated to work with new ruck coach Greg Stafford. He's a big boy! Stoppage drills, boys split into two. One team wearing bibs, defending, while the other has the footy. In one group Chippa breaks the lines and make everyone look like they are moving in slow motion! #pleasestaychip There's also a forward group. Dawes/Hogan/Fitz. Brett Allison barking out instructions nearest to where I am. Chippa looks motivated ... Mitch Clark leaves training early. Not ideal. Hopefully he comes back. Variation of the drill now, one forward at each end, Fitz and Hogan. Cam Pedo looking alright, takes a nice mark. Hopefully we see more of that and less of him squibbing it this year (coughcoughroundone) Pickles Evans is also working hard, laying tackles at will. Will be interesting to see where he fits as he was best 22 before copping that toe injury last year. Extension of the drill but situated inside 50. Ball movement is QUICK. Boys look like they are following the three-second rule. Get the ball, find an option, use it. I like it. Switch/down the lone/handball/kick inside 50 drill now. Nathan Jones basically hitting every target, Dom Tyson to Fitzy is something I want to see in round one if Clark isn't playing. There's something about Salem that looks different ... he looks a bit more built than when he was drafted. Looking good. New drill now. Starts on the wing and involves handballs before delivery inside 50. Dawes/Hogan at one end and Gawn/Fitz at the other end. Gee Toump looks good. Delivering some really sharp kicks. Dom Tyson needs to work on his goalkicking, missing a few bread and butter 25m shots on the run. Interesting hearing Paul Roos yell out 'HALF TIME!' it's now obvious. Training is being treated like a game. On resumption its basically a similar drill but involves a player in the middle marking, swinging sround and delivering to a forward. Refreshing to see Jonesy get louder and louder on the track. No doubt the captaincy has got him going. Full grounder drill now. You beauty. Match sim!!! It's great to see two ruckmen at contests with Gawn fighting with Spencer. Dawesy getting in front of Tom McDonald and marking everything. I could watch that all year. Ball use out of defense has been excellent!!! Alright, an alternate drill now ... out of defense, through the middle, kick up forward. Nice. I love seeing blokes sprint THE ENTIRE LENGTH OF THE GROUND in this drill just to get the footy. I love it! And I haven't seen it for ages, if ever. Especially not under the "talent manager". I see the white training jumper for the first time in person. And I'm 110% done. It's just so beautiful. :') PROPER MATCH SIM. ALMOST AN INTRACLUB!!! Jack Watts first centre clearance of this mini-intraclub. Mini-intraclub is pretty much equal teams. I like it. Clisby with kickout duties. Interesting. Ball use is good. Toumpas is getting the ball a bit which is what I like to see. Jack Watts with two clearances (albeit from a free kick). It's good to see that hardly an inch is being given defensively, but that decision making is also good from the team with the footy. Just saw Hunt blow away Roh Bail getting the footy. He is QUICK. Dom Barry getting a bit of the footy. Good signs. JKH tackles a bloke and sets up a goal with his defensive pressure. It's déja vu from Wednesday. Same occurrence at the same end no less. Dom Tyson turning blokes inside out. BREAKING ANKLES OUT THERE DOM. I LIKE IT A LOT. Jones bumps Grimes after he gets rid of the footy. I swear Jones just wants the captaincy on his own, still not satisfied with co-captaincy. Thing that frustrates me with Watts, gets the ball a fair bit but not really following up. Staying behind the ball. Haha Roosy: 'NEXT SCORE WINS! NEXT SCORE WINS!!!' Cross is getting plenty of it, as is Kent. Tyson's getting it too. Exciting! I think the game plan is more defined now - there's still a lot of switch play but the build up is more patient, concise and decision making is far better. It looks like they are finishing up. Few are staying out to improve their skills a bit.

Good news. Jack Fitzpatrick and Jesse Hogan at full training this morning. Mitch Clark and Chis Dawes expected next week.

It frustrates me that Bailey and Neeld are coupled together as failures. Bailey had by far the harder task. He had no facilities and no money in the FD when he came. I sat in a meeting where he was told we didn't have enough money for new training footballs. We were training with ones that were out of shape. (Ironically the person who gave him this advice didn't understand the budget and denied him new footys when we did have the money!!). He started with an exhausted list with ageing "stars", many journeymen and few young players. The club was led by a CEO (Harris) who knew he was done and had mentally switched off. He was directed to go down the youth path by the new CEO and Board and sacrificed games for youth. He didn't trade in one mature player bar John Meesen and that agreement was "done" before he was appointed. He sacrificed games for picks to his own obvious detriment. He had an extraordinarily young list but managed to get 8.5 wins in each of his last two years. Yes we had some awful results and yes we were inconsistent but our list was not unlike the Suns and Giants who in their first years didn't get anywhere near 8.5 wins. Neeld came in with many good young players on the list with a year or two under their belts. He had exceptional facilities, he had an expanded and fully funded FD, he traded early picks for established players and yet didn't manage as many wins in his tenure that Bailey got in his final 15 odd games. Bailey had his weaknesses and I don't think he was the right person to lead us into finals but he never got the opportunity. MN was a very unfortunate appointment who was nowhere near Dean Bailey's level of competence and the two should not be "coupled".

I think he is irreplaceable and there is no one in the wings set to be a star fullback. Frawley will be pushing for AA honour again this season given an injury free run and a better midfield. We really can't afford to lose players of this quality.

Don't cut off your nose to spite your face, WYL. Chip is an integral part of this club's short term future and to see him walk at the end of the year would be a real disaster. You and I both know that.

So Frawley hasn't worked hard? Where's your evidence? They're not trained monkeys, they're humans. Staying motivated in that environment would have been a struggle for anyone. You can stamp your feet and sound as ruthless as you like, but your view seems completely detached from that fact.

Yes. We were completely gutted and soulless at 186 and the club took action to rectify the damage. That action involved taking risk and in the end, if failed but only a fool would fail to recognise that it was a genuine attempt to redress the problem. You want the truth? Go to Nutbean's post # 21. And for those wearing the rose coloured glasses about our situation now, you should recognise the fact that the club is also taking risks now with a high profile, highly paid coach and a policy of buying recycled players to shore up our pathetic midfield which was long ago considered third world and couldn't be fixed by either Bailey or Neeld. Like most, I have faith in PJ and Roos but most of us had faith last year and it all went belly up so don't presume anything just yet.

F$k cars....talking about footy here or what?

It's fair to say that the footy needs to start soon.

silly thread, just doing what a sensible person would do that's all, probably why some on here have trouble understanding

Lack of conditioning and lack of both upper and lower body strength. Stronger legs will give him more power through the hips to stay up right and strong arms will let him push off with just his arms instead of leaning in. Plus more fitness will let him feel stronger and not be sucking in for air. Either way I'm not too concerned. Ruck technique takes years to learn and comes with the body needed. As long as he shows a desire for the contests his height will make him hard to beat.

Same comments by different posters... Over and over again... Maybe Chip should take control of this thread and put it on hold also?

So just to confirm, you offer no emotional attachment to the players, you just expect results, but Frawley is not entitled to the same right to make decisions without emotion? Finals and success is what players want. He is one player. He can't produce finals footy on his own. If the team is incapable of that, he will have put in 7 good years trying to get them to that point, and would be well within his rights to go elsewhere where that is a reality.

I am probably in a very small club here as I would suggest that as good as chip is hes not quite the irreplaceable star many would have him as. He has yet to replicate his AA year and quite frankly many games he played were quite flat. Id prefer him to stay.. id also prefer he regains his A game. If he goes he goes. All just part of the game now.

Dont believe everything you read on the Internet. - Abraham Lincoln

Interestingly - If you had a blueprint of what Bailey identified as wrong with our club/playing list/culture and what he wanted to implement as opposed to what Neeld identified as problematic with our club and what he wanted to do and how he wanted to change things, I would say Neeld was streets ahead in indentifying where were failing. As we have painfully found out, knowing what the problems are and having the skillset to fix the problems are two entirely different things.

That whole series of milk as fashion shots is amazing.

Having the acknowledgement of Hannibal I appreciate that I may be better advised to reference dland for matters of MFC relevance only I appreciate the depth of some of the general discussion but would probably find more structured and objective analysis and reporting on these issues in mainstream or specialist media I expect the discussion of footy to be extreme, passionate and irrational but expect better in matters of real importance It does concern me that so many deluded by partisan ideologues impose ignorance on so many others I suppose that's the beauty of democracy

I think the AFL, given their backing of Roos and PJ, would be looking at this situation very closely. No chance FA compensation will be dropped, given the likelihood of Frawley leaving us.

I feel it should be noted in this thread the decision under this government's watch to allow the dumping of nearly 3 million cubic metres of dredge spoil near the GBR's marine park as part of the aptly named Abbot Point coal port expansion. This after Hunt claiming that the port expansion and dredging of waste would actually improve the water quality... Anyone who has visited the Reef I'm sure will agree it must be protected. I can overlook stupid decisions that can be reversed, and damage that can be undone. But if these deceitful, back scratching [censored] have placed our greatest natural wonder in jeopardy, as looks to be the case, I will never forgive them.

Yeah because we all start to think were going to have a good season only to get disappointed by the end of round 1. I just hope 2014 is different.

Fair dinkum You'd reckon they would know not to schedule these things to clash with the MFC AGM

This is an old Today Tonight beat-up from nearly two years ago. Most suppliers have stopped permeate addition. I think it gets fed to pigs again, like it used to be. However, you know that permeate is just the whey from cheese manufacture, don't you? It came out of the milk in the first place. I'm not suggesting it's right to add it back again, but it's hardly some sort of dangerous product. If you want a standardised milk fat and protein level year round, it has to be adjusted, because cow's milk varies seasonally, and between breeds. There's no researched and validated scientific proof that A2 milk actually does what it says. I really like the taste of it but not the expense of it. But again, A1 (non-permeate) milk is not the devil. BTW, Holsteins and other breeds can also be A2A2 i.e. produce A2 milk. It's a recessive gene, not restricted to Jerseys and Guernseys. Jerseys also produce milk that is higher in fat (about 5.5%) compared to other breeds (about 3.5%). Jersey A2 full-cream milk may not be suitable for people who need a low fat diet. If milk companies were adding melamine as a 'filler', like the Chinese once did, then I'd be really worried. That kills.

We need to stop players driving.

Good on you mate. Ha, I spend heaps of time studying too. My wife laugh's at me. She just doesn't get it. I was using Higgo's spreadsheet from the Jock Reynolds website. It does help with planning prior to SC opening. But let's be honest until we see rookies and where coach's are going to play certain players it's all subjective.

This disaster we are in, and hopefully coming out of soon, has been a skipping stone since the late nineties. The lines of blame are so wide as to render them useless for judgement. Anyone saying that Neeld was when the rot started is revising history. And, ADC, anyone making nazi comparisons is belittling history.

That makes two of us.

Pies forecast signing Bucks, Reid, Swan & Lumumba by R1 last Friday. Bucks talks haven't heated up yet but Swan, Lumumba done today. The difference between a successful club that has consistently played finals and who want to stay to our club that has just had consistent seasons of nothing. This will keep happening until we start winning with players holding off talks.

I like the Fantasy Forum idea.

Yes. Keep that up America and you'll have some of the mug punters believing it was Neeld and not Bailey who taught the club to be "bruise free" and coached at Skilled Stadium on the 186 day. I'm no apologist for Neeld and I'm not blaming Bailey but setting out what was proscribed for him as a coach and made it very clear he failed. I don't give a flying as to who gave Bailey an assistants job. Neither of them were much chop and you're delusional if you think otherwise.

correct.

What part ? How unlike a leftie to once again have no clue.

What a bazaar analogy. You need to lighten up a bit. Its only a game of footy. Comparing our club to a regime that was so sinister…..well "the mind boggles".

This type of function has been around for several years. Agree with your thoughts on the MCC. It would be cheaper and have more atmosphere. I personally get a chill, every time I attend some event when the ground itself is not in use and look down on it. It is just a magnificent place.

Brian Lake's premiership with Hawthorn is evidence enough for Chippa to wait and see what happens.

well aware of it actually.

Ha! Vintage WYL. Doesn't even know what he's angry about

You're right, the function used to be called the Commencement Dinner and was held at Crown. I note this year it's being held at the MCC dining room which I imagine is a cost cutting exercise and a sensible one too.

Look, it's pretty simple... Someone quoted Frawley saying he "bleeds red and blue" and loves being a leader at the club, so they think that means there's no chance he'll leave. Moloney said those exact things and ended up leaving. The end. We're not talking about their different motivations, we're talking about someone saying because Frawley made those comments he won't leave, which is rubbish, and I provided a pretty clear cut example of why.

My dad plays golf with Danny Frawley, well at least at the same club. Danny told him, that James being a country boy is very loyal to the team that gave him a shot, however his dream is deep finals football. If he sees any possibility of playing it with Melbourne he'll stick around for life, but if there's no progression he won't risk his dream for a team who in 7 years has really not delivered. I am perfectly fine with this opinion, and in the same position I would do the same. He's stood up for alot of blokes in the last 7 years, and it's time for them to repay him. If they do that, he'll be a dee for life.

So "until he knows the direction of the club" is the convenient excuse to get him through to mid year until he can then postpone until the end of the year. Funny thing is I don't think it's about money as we can surely offer as much as any other club. If it's about success he should realise that leaving doesn't guarantee him anything. Look at Moloney, McLean or Rivers. They haven't won a flag and Rivers was awful in the finals last year. If we can't convince Frawley that things are improving then I don't see how we will ever convince enough players to play good footy. They should already feel like things have improved. Of course they will be jaded about results but come round 1 they have to run out there feeling like they will crush the saints. Also whenever journo's quote 8 coaches in 8 years it makes me sick because it's such a cheap way to make something sound shocking.

As a leader, he should be wanting to drive the change, not waiting to see if it happens.

Integrity would be a good start. Hey Dank, "make sure you use the good stuff, we are playing Carlton this week", "I take full responsibility for my actions" followed by "we will use every legal avenue to defend ourselves", "when the full story comes out we will be fully clear of any wrong doing". Sorry I am not allowed to comment". The architect of the program has knifed his extremely well like president, the CEO, the high performance manager, Danny Corcoran - everyone but himself. Tried to knife Demetriou and McLaughlan. Using Julian Burnside, the commie people smuggler defending lawyer, to claim Hird is "heroic" and that his human rights are being abused. Refuses to accept any responsibility and holding out for his $1m holiday on full pay. Hows that for a serious subject. They guy is a delusional [censored]. And for that matter so is his wife. The world they inhabit is rarified. They clearly think they are above everyone else. I personally can't wait to see him go down in flames. As for the club. I hope they fold. Deserves everything he has coming and a lot more.

And you sir, are definitely not an accountant judging by this gobbeldygook.

Seriously? Of all Tapscott's shortcoming's that aint it.

Dr G why bother. He isn't going to hear. He just wants to whinge. He won't separate the debt and revenue of the pokies and clubs to see if they are paying off the debt so there will be large assets and revenue streams in four years. I haven't seen the figures broken down so I don't know the answer but given PJ says they will pay off the debt in four years I assume that they are generating enough revenue to service and pay out the debt. As I understand it the operating debt created this year was in footy operations. But hey whatever he wants to hear.