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Are on holiday but I hear from a contact that Hogan is loving the direction of the club.

I agree - I'm trying to be realistic about things. That said, we could win the flag next year.

Up by 6 goals....wtf is that.....

You do if you're North Melbourne

I'm done with hype and optimism. Too many false dawns at the MFC. I thought Stynes will save us. I was wrong. This is last chance saloon for this club. Nobody will save us after this, the AFL has done their best. For me the main KPI for season 2014 is respect. I want to go to games where the opposition doesn't think "easy win", and doesn't treat us with total contempt. And I want to go each week without thinking "great, another smashing". If we can achieve these things, regardless of where we finish on the ladder, it will be a good season.

The pick we got from Col was probably the best thing he ever gave the club.

Nathan Jones was a teens pick and look at how far he's come as a player at the MFC. Sylvia is an absolute airhead who refuses to believe that reaching his potential is completely up to him. Good riddance. Can't stress enough how happy I am with the Vince swap. Moloney and Sylvia - 'bringing the MFC down since the early 2000's' Get fcked.

This really gets my goat Sylvia harping on from afl.com "I don't feel like I've reached my potential yet so that’s all ahead of me," he said. "I'd like to play some more consistent footy. I think I had a pretty consistent year (in 2013) without any real breakout games but I think playing with a football club like Fremantle, they demand excellence and hopefully they can take me to the next level." I especially like the bit "hopefully they can take me to the next level" Ah no Colin u should have helped yourself too that would have been nice. Glad he us gone tbh.

Whaaaaaat? Whaaaaaaaaat? Whether something is capitalism or not is in no way related to whether all parties benefit. Fundamentally, capitalism is defined by the cycle of reinvestment of income into further income-producing capability. This can apply very broadly - an individual who invests in their personal development through formal training or simply self-directed learning is investing to improve their productive asset, just as an individual or corporate entity which allocates money to expand or improve their production facilities or even land viability. The 'Capitalist System' historically refers to the architecture of capitalism such as savings and loan facilities, company formation, share ownership and contract-oriented (rather than obligation-oriented) labour relations. There is no inherent moral or ethical dimension to capitalism, it is not inherently negative and it is certainly not inherent positive. If you defined capitalism as 'not really capitalism unless every transaction benefited all parties' you would a) have very, very few, if any, examples of capitalism in practice, and b) be laughed out of the room by any serious economist you encountered, regardless of political perspective. I don't know where you're getting this 'crony-capitalism = communism' nonsense either. Communism is a radical, and dysfunctional, system of centralised control of the capitalisation process and labour relations (implicitly on an 'obligation' basis, which is a lovely historical irony) ostensibly in order to meet the goals set by the state, theoretically 'on behalf of the people's collective welfare'. Crony capitalism can mean different things to different people, but the Indonesian example is considered classic in that the movement and distribution of assets and the decision-making basis of ostensibly commercial operations was made on the basis of the political and social relationships with key figures, leading to accumulation of wealth and productive assets on a hierarchy of proximity to a central core of power. Capital flows to cronies; crony capitalism. Also, racism is systematic. Or more to the point, it is only problematic when it is systematic. If a society normalises racism, then it is a problem. If one person is racist, then they are just an a4s3hole. Historically, the implicitly racist colonial system played (and is playing) a significant part in creating 'opportunities for accumulation' which accelerated the process of but was not inherently necessary for he emergence of the capitalist economic system. But it is true that personal liberty and rights were a critical factor in the emergence of capitalism - if people live under the understanding that their property and/or labour can be appropriated or devalued without notice or due compensation, then obviously they would be much less inclined to accumulate a pool of productive capital. This relationship between personal security from sovereign risk and the success of capital business enterprises drove the initial bond between liberalism and capitalism, however something confusing has happened where in the present political context 'liberal' business environments (minimum regulation etx) and 'liberal' personal rights have diverged, such as in the Tea Party movement which simultaneously argues for radical minimisation of government 'public good' activities while also supporting the use of government as a tool for imposing sectarian social expectations. Bizarre, eh. So. I hope that helps to clear a few things up. Let's get back to the trade and draft discussion. AND NEVER SPEAK OF THIS ON A FOOTBALL FORUM AGAIN. ... I'm keen to just draft with pick 9, as there seem to be many good options. But if any reasonable deal could be struck for Taylor Adams, I'd be keen. I do worry about which player(s) might have to be given up to sweeten the deal. Wow, imagine if GWS wanted Pick 9 and Lynden Dunn? He does fit their stated needs...

Since several posters have poured scorn on the above post. I'm obviously dense too. I naively assumed Srjennings was just joking that we Demon supporters were just unfamiliar with the concept of being 6 goals up.

unlike some I've never claimed my rumours are definate. But I get them from a somewhat reputable source and I pass them on.

After 10 yrs Silvia is still hopeful of a "real breakout game" - Lol!

No. Shut it down, We haven't won a first round since 2005. Take a big cold shower.

if Scully didnt leave we'd have never gotten Jesse Hogan thankyou, Tom

no go on the Kennedy front, said he hadn't heard the rumour and has no intention of leaving the swans. second hand from a mate who played golf with him today.

That's a big loss to GWS in my eyes.

Would it help if we explained it the opposite way? If you're down by 6 goals, you don't just stop, you keep going to increase the defeat.

We must have been watching different games over the past few years Mallee. I buggered if I can recall anything approaching mediocrity.

There's a joke that springs to mind about Willy Wonka's Chocolate Factory and an oompa loompa . . .

I'm not sure it's fatigue. It's more like the letdown after the high of the last week. Michie was the fix we needed to settle our nerves and Tyson put us all on a high. Vince added and we were close to overdosing and the unexpected early comittment of Cross was clearly more than most of us could handle. Please note the above analogy got a little out of control and was merely referencing candy stores and sugar hits not any illegal substances. Thanks.

Hogan will win 6-8 games off his own boot.. So I expect us to finish with about 6-8 wins..

I am far more excited about George Stone looking after our midfield than anything else that has happened in the last few weeks. Didn't matter who we added to the midfield, we needed a proven midfield coach to take the reins.

Maybe it's just me, but that line always reminds me of lines like "I'm not a racist, but..."

My missus reckons he is too tall and skinny. I guess she is comparing him to me. She must love me heaps.

Who ever the hell Roos thinks needs to go. I would go with that.

Understandably most Melbourne supporters will be cautious when it comes to their expectations for the coming season, however we really only need a bit of luck on the injury front to be a completely different outfit to next year. We know what we get with Jones, Vince and Cross, who are of a similar standard, although different in style, but it's the unknown quantities of Michie, Tyson, Viney, pick 9, Clark, Hogan, Dawes and Roos that will either impact our prospects. If you believe Freo supporters Michie will be a tremendous asset. Many rate him more than Barlow. He's a good size, a quality kick, has pace and is a clearance machine at WAFL level. Unlike Magner and Mckenzie who butcher the footy when they get it Michie has good skills and class. At 21 he's ready to play good footy if he's injury free. Tyson could be our best midfielder in 3 years and one of the competitions best. It's not overstating things to say that he has the ability to be a bona fide gun. He's big, smart, balanced, a great mark and looks like a cross between Hodge and Pendlebury. Along with Viney we get that inside mid presence we've been lacking. He's only slid down the pecking order at GWS for one reason - injuries. Viney will be better in his second year and better with good players around him. I'm excited to see where he can take his footy next year. Pick 9 could be a revelation and play 18 games, or take a while to find their feet like Toumpas. Wines, Brad Crouch, Vlastuin and O'Meara are examples of the former. Clark could be close to the best key forward in the game next year if he's injury free. His impact could be massive. I won't listen to people that want to quell pressure or talk about this guy. He's the best talent to walk into the club in 40 years. At 19 he will be a damaging player and impact the results of football games. Dawes still has injury worries, but has time to get fit for round 1 and enjoy the bulk of the preseason. He's a reliable workhorse who has entered his prime and will be terrific for Clark and Hogan. Ross Lyon has shown what an elite culture and coaching environment can achieve in a short time. The players will love playing under Roos and enjoy their football. They want to get better and he'll give them the tools. Others may think of Watts and what he can do, so he's another ingredient that can make this cake rise. I realise that I'm asking for blue sky and for everything to go right, but it's about time we had an ounce of luck. Other clubs enjoy moons aligning and I reckon it's about time we got a break. As I said, I'll understand the reticence of others, but a fit and strong 22 could surprise a lot of people next year.

Correct Sue. It was a mere sense of humour but obviously all the floggings in the past has taken that from them.......lighten the [censored] up guys, where is your bloody sense of humour?

I can confirm that GWS were genuinely gob smacked by the Swans play on Franklin. They thought they had him, and we're completely blind sided by the offer. They had no idea. It was kept so secret by the Swans - they were actually impressed by how secretive it'd all been. BUT - here's the rub it seems. I also reckon the Swans players had no idea. And, I suspect, many of them were not, and are not, cool about it. Perhaps this rumour has legs.

Those that wouldn't trade Howe for one of the best mids in the game need to take those rose coloured glasses off and get a spine. These are the sorts of tough decisions we need to start making if we're to be successful. Either way, if we don't get him, I'm already stoked by this trade period.

Notice I said even bigger heap; the normal heap is a given.

Absolute joke od, we are obviously doing it for the money we pay our membership then miss two home games to be played in Alice Springs and Darwin. I know we get make up games, but if you pay for a reserved seat in advance it's tuff [censored] and you get general admission to the make up (2) games. The other issue is we seem to fall in an even bigger heap for the next two games we play.

I try to be a bit pragmatic about these things but if you want to understand the failure of the MFC over the last few years dissect those words. This bloke was one of our senior players. F(*k off and dont let the door hit you on the way out, meathead.

He'll be a gun one day, Mark my words. Its only been 10 years. Give him time. FMD

Nathan should take his little brother out for a wild night which includes multiple twitter posts.

I'm assuming the Josh Kennedy rumour was all hot air?

ROUND 1 TEAM: FB: Garland Frawley Strauss HB: Terlich McDonald Grimes C: Watts N Jones Vince HF: Michie Hogan Howe FF: Dawes Clark Kent R: Gawn Viney Tyson I/C: Trengove Toumpas Cross Sub: Blease Unlucky: Clisby, Taggert and Tappy The rest: Improve skill level and you'll get a look in. This is a hard running disciplined football team with the skill to match. Roos is about gut running. Players who can run both forward and back all day so as you can see there are plenty of players even on the HB and HF lines who can run through the middle to give the starting mids a break. Same goes with the bench. If all these runners can adhere to Roos' game style, we will be big improvers. They need to play like possessed demons, running hard at the ball and player. Swarm the contested situations, making sure we win as many contests as we can and getting on the run quickly. The beauty of having injected players like Vince, Cross, Michie and Tyson is that they are all smart footballers who make sound decisions. If they can play with the kind of intensity that Roos' teams are known for, then I'm not worried about their ability to get on the spread and make smart decisions. Something that Bail, McKenzie, Matt Jones, Evans, Dunn, Magner and Jetta seem incapable of doing. Surprises to the side might be Strauss but I believe Roos will get him to play at the required intensity. If that happens, he will be an excellent back pocket because he can use the ball and can run and create. Needs som arrogance to his game. Clisby is the other who can grab that spot. I like Terlich as a flanker as he provides fantastic run and attack, and despite what many people think, I believe he's a beautifully skilled player most of the time. It's his team mates that make his decision making look bad as he's always trying to find the best option rather than banging it on the boot ala Dunn. Hogan as CHF because he has a huge tank and can also influence play when the ball is on the ground so he's extremely valuable as that high working CHF. Provides a massive aerial threat up the ground if play is stagnant and we're kicking long down the line. Dawes just doesn't provide the same sort of impact. Can't do much when the ball is on the ground and he's hands are nowhere near as good, however it'll be good for those two to be able to rotate throughout games so they can reserve their energy and therefore have more of an influence. Howe and Michie play very important roles. Both are great runners and with another pre-season, will only have bigger engines. The HF line is extremely important in that you need to be able to get on your bike up the field and stream back when we're on the attack. They're both great marks and can do damage when the ball is in dispute so their running ability needs to be on show when the ball is moving quickly back into our forward 50. Trengove, Vince, Cross and even Tyson have the attributes to play this role well and they will be as part of normal rotations. Important position. Clark and Hogan or Dawes deep in the forward line is a scary thought if we can use the ball well when entering forward 50. As I've said, you'd imagine it will improve thanks to the skilled mids we've brought in. The only thing we're really missing is that manic forward pressure pocket who can kick goals. I've popped kent in there as I rate him and he is about the best we have currently. The benefit of having him is that he is another who next year after a pre-season will also be able to run through the midfield or play HF. He's got some great attributes. Blease is the other who can play it but needs to step up next year. The theory with this team is that they all need to be playing team first, disciplined hard running football and play with some stink. I'm confident that Paul Roos and George Stone will bring this to fruition and get them on board. If they start playing this sort of footy, then get ready for lift-off my friends. Can't wait for next year.

Are you out of your ******* mind? Treloar is the best young midfielder GWS have got!! i would happily have given both pick 2 and 20 just for Treloar.

Being one of the younges back-man we have, in one of the most under-siege back-lines in the league, taken at pick 50 something; I think we can cut him some slack on his disposal. He's already finished higher (3rd) in our best and fairest then some players have their whole career at the MFC. Definitely not underrated around here, well with me anyway, coming along very well and will be an integral part of the defense for a good part of the next 10 years.

My source says 17.8%. WHO'S RIGHT? Capitalism is not capitalism unless both sides benefit from the transaction. If you're taking advantage -- using someone as a means -- then it's not capitalism. That's closer to crony capitalism aka. communism. Racism is born of individual fallacy. Don't degrade the worth of the individual with your closest commie crap. "I" will always be great than the "we". "The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities. Stop reading Green Left Weekly.

I don't beleive that he is underrated by many here, if that is what you are alluding to. His disposal is questioned - hopefully that will improve with time, maturity AND having multiple moving targets ahead of him, which he has lacked to date. Even Hawthorn's renowned HBs may look far less finessed were they to have only the one or two stationary targets upfield that Tom has had. It causes hesitation and uncertainty, and in today's fast game that is death

I'm excited at the beginning of every season... usually distraught by the end of round 3. However, in 2014 I will also have a sense of confidence which I haven't felt since I don't remember when.

I'd be thinking Byrnes, Jetta, Magner and Nicholson would already have a foot out the door Taggart is abit like Michie, just watching him for casey it's obvious there is something there, worth another year under a good development group.

WTF. I've been quiet for a few weeks; just sitting and watching. I've tried to put my natural optimism aside and adopt some of Old Dee's cautious pessimism, but I just can't keep it bottled up any longer. Trading has gone well. We've addressed our midfield needs and brought in a mix of youth and experience. This has to make us at least a little bit better. I'm hoping that, if we can stop the beltings and be competitive, players like Watts, Blease, Tapscott might just gain the confidence they need to become the players they could be. If we can get even a 20% improvement out of these guys, along with the natural improvement we can expect from Viney, Toumpas and others, we must be a better team. I'm absolutely, positively almost certain we will win 10 games next year. I'll be a happy man and will be using the single malt for a different purpose. GO DEES!

We should pay him out and delist for his own good and ours. Too many concussions.

Anyone that thinks they can define these kids by a couple of quick vids is up themselves.

Am I the only one who would be perfectly happy if we shut up shop and enjoyed what we've already gained? This has been a great trade period for us so far. I think any deal that comes up now will have to be pretty special to improve what we've already done.

This should be life ban from demonland for bringing this up.

i cant believe how many people dont rate Fitzy. hes got massive upside. i believe he could be more important than watts. id like to see him played at CHF. at 200cm, great endurance and speed that is so very rare for someone that size, he could really present as a target across half forward and the wing. set shot kicking action not crash hot but tidy field kicking and decent hands. a definitely must keep. id like to see hogan start at CHB. fitzy isnt a great ruck but could be a lethal CHF. Dawes and Clark in the fwd line.

http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2013-10-22/demon-deal-a-nice-surprise-tyson "Upon his return, Tyson was taken to the home of Melbourne's head of player development, Todd Viney, where he met the club's new coach Paul Roos, new assistant coach George Stone and football manager Josh Mahoney." At the rate its going the Viney house hold will become heritage listed