Leaderboard

Let me state my position again before I post, CC is a mate of mine. That said let me state the following: Chris bore the brunt of the tanking punishment and we all know he is not the only one who had to be involved. He did so without recrimination. He has lost a year's salary as a result. He has a family to support. He has been removed from the football side. He is now in the marketing/membership/fundraising side. He is good at his role. He also does a lot of the community work and he is good at that as well. He is great with people and getting them involved with the MFC. He is a former player who cares a lot about this club. He wants to see this club successful again and has suffered like few others as a result of the last few years. I would be more likely to donate again if asked by Chris, someone who knows me and how I feel about the MFC, than some new kid I have never met before and who will leave as soon as he is offered a new job. You want to build culture, you don't burn the CC's of this world. You use them to the best of their ability as part of the rebuild of this fractured club.

Cheap shot? That's a little hypocritical. Where were you when Moloney was on afl360? Nowhere to be seen... That you think Brent Moloney deserves any form of defence or protection is exactly what's wrong with Melbourne supporters culture right now. He left, he didn't want to play for the club. He wanted to play for Brent Moloney. Good riddance to him and if you wish to keep sulking about the past, good riddance to you also, sir.

A good night, thanks to OPSM for the facilities, they were great hosts. Jones was a bit late, traffic was horrendous in the average weather last night. So started off with Robbo questioning Neeld and then Craig. Inexperience was obviously a topic covered by Neeld, Trengove and Grimes being captains came up (and was quizzed again in questions), Neeld explained how last years preseason, they had a number of categories relating to elite preparation and all players and coaches rated the players from 1-7, this exercise found the two Jacks head and shoulders above everyone else. It also found only 2 of the previous years leadership group to be in the top 15. This year, after the Darwin camp (maybe in it), the exercise was done again, the two Jacks again clearly up the top, but gap was much smaller to others, with Jones third in rankings. Neeld also spoke of how he had been given specific directives when he got the job about changes to be made (took this to mean mainly cultural type issues) and how he has gone about making such changes and seems happy with how he is doing this. It is the first time I have heard him speak about such a mandate for change and he says he was under no illusions as to just how hard the task would be. Craig talked a bit about his role before the first question. This was to Mark and about the older players bought into the club, how Rodhan wasn't recruited to play week by week, but to fill holes when kids needed a rest and for his influence around the club, Byrnes to bring his Geelong experience and help lead around the club, Sellar bought up by Craig, quizzed on Pedo by questioner and how seemingly little done at Casey, 49 marks and 25 marks in defence last 2 games was Neelds reaction. The next question was from a feisty bloke who really got stuck into Neeld about his continual use of the word "inexperience" and for making 2 obviously very young and "inexperienced" players as co-captains. Neeld had only just started answering before the guy decided to continue on. Mark again talked about the process of selecting captains and where our players are at, talking about the implications of having so few games into our players and how inexperience does not mean they lack talent and how in his opinion GWS and the Suns are the most talented lists. Jonesy had arrived and talked about his football experiences so far and Craig recalled his interview with Nathan in 2005 and how he had hoped to draft him to Adelaide. I got the next question in and asked Neeld what he wishes he had done differently (the others had covered what I had planned to ask), his response was pretty much nothing, how he'd been given a job to do and was doing it. I followed it up with mentioning that at training before Freo he was much more active than I had ever seen before, he said he hadn't noticed it. Peter then let Nathan know that despite the criticism, the bulk of supporters were right behind the boys, something I backed up to Nathan after the presentations. There were a couple more questions I have forgotten the bulk of, though they talked about how they try and stop other teams when they get a run on. The final question was about how Nathan is handling being tagged this year, something he has hardly experienced before but has happened a lot this year. He mentioned how he investigates the opponent he is expecting to be tagged by, watching footage of them and watching footage of other players who have been tagged by said player to get some ideas on what they did differently to beat the tag. Afterwards, had a quick chat with Neeld, asking about Sam Blease, who I'm a fan of, he mentioned that while devastating in attack, that Sam needs to continue to improve his defensive efforts and how he is hoping Sam plays in at least 8 of our remaining games, though probably not till after the bye. I then asked Jonesy to show me the tatt of his Grandfather, as my bro had told me its great and he wasn't exaggerating. We had a chat about training and how it is frustrating that what they are doing on the track is not really showing itself in games. That about covers it as best as I can recall. Thanks again to OPSM and the club, was an enjoyable night.

I was also at the meeting last night and had prior to the meeting come to the conclusion that Neeld should go in the shorter term. I now after listening to both Neeld and Craig believe that he should at least be given to the end of the season. Both spoke honestly and both openly passionate about the Club and where it is and where it is going. Nate is well grounded and definitely a "leader" but I don't believe he is Captain material and I am not sure he would want it anyway. With regard to the appointing of the two Jacks, there were two rounds of surveying of players choice of captain, the second being after the Darwin expedition. Again the two Jacks could not be separated and were well in front of the next couple but also after Darwin there were six players who definitely stood above the rest. How could they not appoint them after going through that lengthy process otherwise why bother. FD Just appoint who they like. What would the players have felt then. Also how could they have known what crap would be thrown up over the last season and half. All very well to have hindsight. As to how the players are dealing with the year, Nate did say that the players were absolutely blown away when the supporters all came down to training that Thursday morning. He said that that support meant so much to the players (I took from that that are devastated when they get booed). Another comment that Nate made about how the team has played was that being such a young side in terms of games played, was about momentum change within a game. As an older player he could feel momentum change but the younger players don't sense that because they are concentrating on their own games and it was difficult during a game to get that message across. He said they have to be better at getting that through to the other players. Last night was a fantastic step for the Club to take and I commend them for taking the initiative. I believe the Club has plans to take their message to the supporters more in the future. We, like the players have to stop listening to the "noise" coming from the media. They are in a feeding frenzy when it comes to Melbourne. They are whipping up a perfect storm if we let them.

Moloney left Demons after 'snub' over captaincy Moloney cracked the sads because he wasn't captain. Sylvia will re-sign. Rodan has had a bigger impact than we see on field. Stef Martin was moved on for good reason. Other senior players were old enough to be moved on. Peter Jackson has given some truths to the club, there will be changes, but we will improve. Great article and interview from ex player Russell Robertson, which touches on some issues we haven't heard about but have discussed ad nauseam. Maybe there is some method to all the madness even if there are some things that are not perfect?

I have the answer, but I'm not telling you. I KNOW SOMETHING YOU DON'T KNOW DOO DAAAAA. Spare us, please.

Why is it that whenever someone from the club comes out and makes statement that is contrary to what the media is spinning that people side with the media and not the club personnel? Do people support the club or the media??

I think the point has often been missed lately so here goes: What do these players have in common: Brent Moloney Brock McLean Jared Rivers Cameron Bruce* All four players left the club in order to pursue their own interests at a time where we most needed them to stand up. The fact is a Brent Moloney that bought in, tried hard, set an example in terms of attitude and put team first would still be at Melbourne, he gave himself the excuse by cracking it and regardless of whether Neeld handled it well or not he had a choice to help the club or leave. The other fact is our club also needed Jared Rivers' leadership and had he chosen to stay he would have been welcomed with open arms like other clubs that have players that have sacrificed in order to help the cause Boak being an example. Brock McLean left of his own valition when we needed leadership and Cameron Bruce cracked it over not being offered a contract when he (with Hindsight) he wouldn't have nescessarily been able to play it out. *I know the Junior situation which was a terrible mistake impacted on Bruce but the fact remains he left when he had a strong option to stay. I am not saying that these four players would have had us rocket up the ladder, but they would have filled a void of senior players to set an example on the training track and make our team more competitive over the last couple of years which in my opinion would have greatly helped the development of younger players. It may have also stopped us from needing to bring in the Rodans and Byrnes as had they behaved like real leaders and senior players the dearth of leadership may not have been so great. Add to this the Tom Scully situation (which may have come out well in the long run but has certainly hurt our midfield in the short term), the stupid Junior decision and you actually have a huge part of the reason for our non-competitive list. Certainly if these players had hung around and done the team thing we would have forced players to earn games.

Good stuff Sat. I suspect the idea of keeping Neeld and Craig through this year and next makes a lot more sense when you hear the plan and situation from them directly rather than presuming, judging and second guessing from the outside as we all do on here. A big part of the problem with football commentary now, which has violently escalated over the last 5 years, is the short term desperation for success. The media breed and then feed this frenzy for instant results, and we buy into it. No patience, no tolerance for a plan that might take a few years, no respect for anybody who might try to implement a longer term fix. The media want scandal and blood, and they insidiously convince us that we drive the agenda. [censored]. They set the agenda, and public opinion lines up behind them because we assume that they know what they're talking about. For what good it will do them, I couldn't be more impressed that certain MFC people have been staying away from the media completely, such as quoted by Neeld, and Jordie McKenzie recently. The media is POISON, with fewer and fewer exceptions, and unfortunately it dominates any information more valuable, such as that which comes from the horses mouth.

I have little to add at this point but I would like to take the opportunity to thank the posters in this thread for sticking on topic, avoiding the trolling we've seen in so many other threads and giving us a very interesting and informative read. I really appreciate hearing about the function and what the internal thought processes of the club are as compared to the sensationalised media version of reality. While it doesn't make the on-field situation look much better, at least in the short term, it gives me a great lift to have confirmation that there is method behind the madness and that the club is still moving in the right direction.

His comments regarding Moloney don't cone as a shock to all but there is still a large proportion of people who claim that Moloney was good in 2011 and in 2013 therefore 2012 is proof that Neeld is a bad coach. This article goes a long way to prove that irrespective of Neelds coaching skills, Moloney is a poor leader and probably someone harbouring poor culture. Everyone wants us to have culture like Sydney, but I reckon Paul Roos would have had the same problems with the playing list. Also rpfc and saty, this is one of the most productive and engaging threads on demonland at the moment, I think you both have a lot to offer, please help me keep it on track! I think saty is sick of being howled down in the fashion of "we need to sack Neeld and if you don't agree you're an idiot", and I can see why that is getting frustrating. Let's work together you discuss the problems find solutions and support the club with all seriously love. This is the time the club needs us to keep personality differences out of it.

Let me state my position again before I post, CC is a mate of mine. That said let me state the following: Chris bore the brunt of the tanking punishment and we all know he is not the only one who had to be involved. He did so without recrimination. He has lost a year's salary as a result. He has a family to support. He has been removed from the football side. He is now in the marketing/membership/fundraising side. He is good at his role. He also does a lot of the community work and he is good at that as well. He is great with people and getting them involved with the MFC. He is a former player who cares a lot about this club. He wants to see this club successful again and has suffered like few others as a result of the last few years. I would be more likely to donate again if asked by Chris, someone who knows me and how I feel about the MFC, than some new kid I have never met before and who will leave as soon as he is offered a new job. You want to build culture, you don't burn the CC's of this world. You use them to the best of their ability as part of the rebuild of this fractured club.

Appears Peter Jackson has finally opened the top drawer, hope the poor bloke doesn't open the bottom one without a stiff drink.

After speaking to Neeld and Craig last night, this was disappointing to them as well, the communciations failure between box and ground level didn't help either, but both don't want to play so many behind the ball, and why he was unhappy with a couple of 'senior' players for not dragging the structures back into place. They used half time to 'convince' the players to go back to the agreed structures, hence the 3rd qtr is something to show them that it works, it is not that the players don't support or have faith in Neeld, but the inexperience kicks in and players go into their shell.......both Neeld and Craig, and we discussed this, want the players to back themselves.......problem is we only have 3 or 4 and I won't name, but Neeld and Craig agreed who, if they make a mistake...go stuff it and get straight at the next contest.......they need all 22 doing it, they see little signs that the rest are catching up.....but as Neeld says with the inexperience it only takes a couple of mistakes on the trot and the player goes immediately into the shell.......which throws the rest of the team out

Everyone talks about the captaincy as Neelds biggest mistake.. If I remember correctly they gave Jones the captaincy against GC and unfortunately for him it was by far his worst game and his body language that particular Sunday was terrible.. Jack and Jack are leading maybe the worst team since Fitzroy, Brett Kirk couldn't lead them.. I think we just give them time!

David King is stating the bleeding obvious. The hiring of Neeld as I have said since round 5, last year is the single biggest error this club has made since the dismissal of Norm Smith. The evidence for this is overwhelming. He continues to do untold damage, he may not have started the rot but he has brought this club to its knees. On Monday our board meets, it is my view that the board have no choice but to dismiss Neeld. It is true we are now in a no win situation. Due to our quickly deteriorating financial position which is a direct result of our appalling on-field performances since Neeld became coach, the cost of dismissing him will be a parting, painful, sting and final insult. It will put Melbourne deep into the red. However, let me make this very clear, the cost of maintaining him will be 10 fold that of paying out his contract. In just 18 months under Neeld our club has gone from an exciting up and coming team, a club with no debt, a club with an expanding supporter base and genuine belief in future success, a club on the up. It is now a club that is the embarrassment of the league, a team that is measured against the worst teams in AFL/VFL history, a team that plays without spirit, confidence or self belief, a club battling to stay solvent with rapidly increasing debt, a club that is battling for its very survival. Neeld must be dismissed ASAP so as we can start to heal, so a new coach with a modern game plan that suits the strengths and weakness of our list, who can install self belief and confidence can be appointed. At this point just about any stand in coach that can motivate and create confidence would be a massive improvement. Failure to remove Neeld will result in the loss of a significant number of quality players come season end and this could be a nail in the coffin of our once great club. Changing coaches now may not save us but at least it gives us some hope, some chance of holding oour players, some chance of survival. I simply cannot understand those on hear who come out in support of Neeld....... it is too illogical for me....... I don't get it. Are these people actually watching what is going on both on and off the field? I am sure the board are aware of their fiduciary duties to the club and its members. I cannot see how they have any choice but to dismiss Neeld. I hope that this tread can die with the imminent dismissal of Neeld and that we can once again start to look forward rather than back on what has been an complete and absolute disaster, I again call on the board to uphold its fiduciary duty and dismiss Neeld. Not doing so could well be considered in a court as negligent.

Me thinks MN needs an apology from all the people who used Moloney as an example of how the players dislike him and why Moloney left. I know I'm barking up the wrong tree, particularly on DL, but MN has copped a bit on flack here about Moloney...

Robbo is also one of the senior players who was pushed out by the previous administration and was possibly disenfranchised with the club, but regardless he has more understanding than what we do. Regarding Moloney, I loved the guy and I wanted him to stay, but anyone who wants to say "if I'm not captain, I'm going to crack the sads" instead of saying, "I love this place I want to work with everyone to make it better" should leave because we will go no where fast with those attitudes and that culture of selfishness.

Moloney sulking he wasn't made captain - what a clown, he isn't a leaders bootlace. Sylvia staying with the MFC - lets hope Robbo is 100% right. PJ coming in and telling everyone home truths and beginning to get business in order - music to all our ears.

The headline says it all. He was the scapegoat and the target of a campaign from the very beginning when the On the Couch interview took place.

At least you know what you're getting with Joel Mac, and that is 100% effort for 4 quarters. We could do a lot worse than playing him.

I am a FH and am certainly not a high end supporter. It took me a year to pay the FH contributions - I have a run of the mill salary. I just realised that sounds very self-important and stuck up - it wasn't meant to be. Just trying to make the point that not all FH are high flying corporates or blue bloods spending Daddy's money. Lots of us ARE run of the mill grass roots members.

I used to think that as well and made a similar comment last year on these forums only to be told he is actually quite vocal. Despite that fact that there is the odd poster who claims he isn't the brightest spark on the team (not sure how these views are formulated), each time I have talked to him in person (just a couple of times through limited opportunities as I live in Sydney) he has come across as a very grounded, well thought and genuinely friendly person. This was confirmed to me when he phoned my 11 year old son the other week when they were calling junior members - we had a short casual chat about nothing in particular and then he spoke to my son for at least 5 minutes (after he had interrupted my son's footy training). I have never seen my son looking so happy and he went on to put in his best training session to date :-)

Most people who support Neeld on DL, like myself, believe that this was always going to happen GNF. Neeld is doing what has to be done. Whatever coach we chose, they would also have had to do the same. Ie, cull the list of our failed picks (Morton, Martin ect), draft in experienced players to offer leadership (Byrnes, Rodan), secure good future drafts (Hogan, Barry, and Toumpas [development player]), focus on bringing up fitness to AFL standard (bringing in Misson ect.) A bit of short-term pain for long-term gain. Again, it doesn't matter which coach was chosen, Roos, Clark, Lyon, Williams ect. They would all have had to have made the same decisions. As for Neeld's game plan you can see its shaped around the fact that our players aren't up to AFL fitness (zoning) and the execution of this again is a reflection of the list's fitness and skills. Let me ask you this. Whats more important: short-term success or long-term success? I dont know about you but wining 8 games a year wasn't really cutting it for me and not sustainable for long-term success.

Got to take his Silvia comments with a grain of salt, but he is spot on about Rodan and I can believe his comments on Moloney.

As I will be lambasted for this, I'm actually a supporter of Neeld. one massive mistake he made though and I've said this a few times is why why why did he appoint Grimes/Trengove as captains when he and everyone else know we would be in the furnace for the next 2-3yrs (now possibly longer). I'm not saying those guys aren't good leaders or will be but I agree, why wasn't Moloney or Nathan Jones made captain up front and Grimes or Trengove could've played a dual role with them. Question? Would Moloney have stayed if Jones had been made skipper?

As opposed to sacking him and proving that we are: Credulous Fickle Impatient Gullible Easily led Lacking integrity Lacking focus Lacking unity Irresolute Neeld has done exactly what he promised us he would do. He has pruned the diseased limbs, now we need to give the tree time to grow. The knee-jerk alarmists who want to sack anotehr coach with the job half done need to chill out and wait to see what the finished product looks like. Seriously, after 50 years without a flag, is 1 more going to make that much of a difference to you? It's a gamble I am more than willing to take.

Important to remember we've parlayed the Scully PP into Hogan, Barry, one of Chris Dawes' appendages and perhaps the passage of Viney to the second round. At this point, relative to other decisons, that is bordering on Genius.

I am a Foundation Hero and remain proud of my contribution and would, if called upon, contribute again. The basic premise of the OP is flawed and underlines why the club is in such desperate straits at the present time. There is little doubt that the Stynes/McLardy boards must bear a measure of responsibility for the mess but it is wrong to suggest they promised us a rose garden, nor did they ever give undertakings about the success of the football team or the ongoing financial viability of the fiscal and on field train wreck they took over in 2008. At that time the Board went to its supporters and appealed to business people, professionals and rank and file supporters for funding to help get us in the black so that we could compete with the stronger clubs in terms of facilities and amenities available for the football department to sustain improvement and betterment in that fundamental core area of its functions. Those to who the club appealed are well aware that even the application of the most sophisticated and elaborate business models does not necessarily guarantee success and this is particularly the case with sporting models where success on the field can be so elusive and dependent on a diverse range of factors. Further, it's a complete and utter fallacy to claim that the elimination of debt was the "the single achievement of the Stynes/McLardy Board". That Board also established better and closer relations with the MCC and AFL, strengthened our relationship with the Casey which is a long term venture aimed at expanding our supporter base. What they have failed to do so far is bring success on the field and in fact, we have gone backwards in this area in the past two - three years. However, I don't believe for one second that our current plight is due alone to any one factor be it the current board, Cameron Schwab, Garry Lyon, Mark Neeld or, for that matter, the playing group and some of the suggestions I've read here are disingenuous to say the least. The cancer at the club began long before Stynes took over in 2008 although reading this and many other threads you would hardly know it. Some of the worst "culprits" in causing the situation were brought into the club by previous boards. Neale Daniher was kept on as coach for far too long. Bailey was a poor choice as coach. The records of Craig Cameron and Barry Prendergast as recruiters speak for themselves. Cameron Schwab did not get sacked because he was "no good or because of tanking". He took the fall because the team's performance in the opening rounds of the season was abysmal and, as the CEO, he had to accept responsibility. The team we now have is the result of a decade of second and third rate coaching, recruiting, list management and player development and financial decay. You heard it this week from Cale Morton how he was amazed at how much harder and how more intense the Eagles train compared to us. That comment reflects not only on the current coach but on previous coaches Daniher and Bailey who set poor standards during their tenures. Then there are the negative and destructive elements around the club who had the current board in their sights from day one. I have no problem with critics (but prefer them to be constructive). The termites were boring away at the Stynes board and everything it did from the start and undermining its foundations (note that word). When times get tough, people at most clubs close ranks. Countries at war have national unity governments. But when our club was under fire during the tanking investigation, we had a former president at the forefront condemning us for tanking, we had disgruntled former employees coming forward and giving their jaundiced versions of what happened. Mark Neeld was undermined in the same way in his first weeks. So called supporters went to the media with stories calculated to undermine the club, falsely describing Cameron Schwab as looking "ashen faced", others telling convoluted tales about what the coach's moves during games like the Swans game at Manuka so that they could be blown out of all proportion. Others just praised Caroline Wilson urging her to keep up the good job when what she was doing was sniping at and undermining our club. I find that reprehensible. When Caroline Wilson bags Brayshaw the whole of the North community gets behind him. The Carlton people close ranks around their club when Libba called the club for tanking and even Libba himself was forced to recant under pressure. We have supporters who like to open the wound and let it fester but are nowhere to be seen at an AGM where they can get the message across to the membership and the board. Ultimately, if we want to see the club succeed, we are all responsible and therefore, if we're able to give then I consider it a duty to do so and I'm not concerned about those on board, particularly with the changes that will undeniably come following the recent interventions. As one great philosopher said, "Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Too much of what's going on around the club and too much talk among the supporters is all about negativity and looking backwards. We need to take on board the mistakes of the past and then look forward and act together to rebuild our foundations. That's what being a Foundation Hero means to me.

If Robbo is speaking the truth here and i have no reason to doubt it, then Moloney can get stuffed, he should NEVER be welcome back...A years salary he was happy to take & he sulked becauise he was not the captain. Should have played at Casey all year in 2012. It is a shame that the playing group could not turn him around...Not everyone can be captain, but the whole team can drink from the Cup. Enjoy the Soulless Paddle Pops Brent....The jumper looks good on you.

Without using Damien Barrett or Caroline Wilson, or any of the media backwash we hear, to back your claims, can you prove our "toxic culture" as you have alluded to? Proof. Your incessant rants deserve at least an explanation.

There's some very well written stuff on this thread. Well done in particular to Whispering Jack, Baghdad Bob and I'va Worn Smith. Intelligent and beyond the superficial, angst-driven knee-jerk criticisms on some other threads.

Go Robbo !! A Very passionate Melbourne man... Wish we had more like him..

Oh, I am sorry I was taking what you said literally... You give a doomsday scenario to scare people into agreeing with you. I am telling you that Tasmania - the so-called 19th team according to The Bloated One - is nowhere with its bid. The AFL wants us to thrive, not just survive, and with their investments up North, their is no desire to spend more money on another market. So whine all you want about the coach - but stop trying to convince people of the righteousness of your argument by scaring them.

I think this point was most evident last Sunday evening with Dwayne Russell and Gerard Healy. They continued to bang on about work ethic. There were actually minimal times I questioned our work ethic on Sunday. I think the thing that stood out for me was a combination of how good Freo are and how far we have to go before we are anywhere near as good as them. Neeld didn't really question our work ethic after Sunday, and I happened to agree with him. In terms of Robbo's article, I'm impressed given that he was quite voacl in some circles about his disappointment at being moved on when he was. The fact that he nominated for the draft and didn't get picked up would've been a big reality check for him, but I give credit where it's due that he has come back to the Club and is sticking up for us when required - a lot more than I can say for Schwarz.

Sorry did anybody mention that David Kings a jerk off in all this!!! Wish I could get paid for making cheap shots for a living

Neil Craig said last week in Perth at the pre game function that the two Captains will become outstanding leaders. He said the way they conduct themselves and support their teammates whilst being so young and relatively inexprerienced speaks volumes about the quality of the two young men. He has absolutley no doubt they will become great leaders of the club. Also talked up Chunk and Judy considerably.

So he knows cpfc?

Yep. Also worth noting that Jones wasn't near the footballer he is today when that decision was made.

I'm not sure what Satyriconhome is referring to buy I have heard people from the club say publicly that when the players voted for captains, Grimes and Trengove were the two they chose. They players wanted to follow these guys, not the others.

Robbo might be a little bit of a "look at me" kind of bloke at times, but he is not a planner and schemer who shapes his words and comments to make people conclude matters in a certain way. He is a laid back, genuine kind of bloke who every so often gets fed up and just speaks it as he sees it. He is right about Sylvia. Both he and Moloney are right about Moloney's departure. Stef Martin was let go because his athletic ability is undermined by a total lack of football brain.

I personally think that us run of the mill supporters owe a lot to the Foundation Heroes. If it wasn't for their generosity, we wouldn't be in existence as an MFC team. We would be completely run by the AFL like GWS, what a sad indictment that would be on a club that started this great game.

My thoughts: Robbo talks too much and this time is no exception. Nonetheless it's better that he's with the club than against it.

As for Nev Jetta, I think it is time we faced facts that the kid just isn't any good. I desperately want him to be, because he is tenacious and aggressive and willing, but he doesn't get involved enough and doesn't hurt enough when he does.

Gawn needs a rest and a run at Casey where he can implement what he has learnt at AFL. It has been apparent that he has struggled that last two weeks, but I expect him to be back up soon.Fitz and Spencer are different players, both have been in great form this year, Spencer came into the AFL side and was subsequently dropped based on performance. Fizz will come in for gawn, play forward and pinch hit in the ruck. Hamas holds his place because he is a better ruck and stronger even though he does donuts around the ground. Pederson had been BOG for Casey for the last two weeks thus he comes in. Rodan comes in four the injured Byrnes. I am surprised by the Magner omission. One thing I have noticed is that, subs aside, he has played our lowest game time (near 70%) for the last two weeks. That suggests to me his fitness and tank needs work to bring to AFL level. Maybe explains his dropping to Casey. I'm happy with Strauss in as it will release watts to play forward/wing. Blease hasn't performed in the vfl and was concussed before half time last week. Does that answer most of you're questions?

FB: Terlich Frawley Garland HB: Strauss Pedo Dunn C: Evans Jones Jones HF: Tapscott Dawes Howe FF: Davey Fitzy Watts Foll: Jamar McKenzie Trengove INT: Rodan, Nicholson, Bail, Kent Emer: Spencer, Sellar, Macdonald OUT: Byrnes, Magner, Sellar, Gawn, Jetta IN: Kent, Rodan, Pedo, Fitzy, Strauss Ok maybe it's just me but if the final team lines up as I have it then I think it's pretty reasonable selection. Sellar is replaced by Pedersen can't argue much with that. Byrnes (regardless of injury) for Kent for some youth. Magner for Rodan is a like for a like and whilst Magner is stiff we know our midfield is rubbish so we have to try something. Magner just hasn't done anything creative at all it's just jump on the footy and hope he's got a runner to help him out. Then Strauss back in because he's in our best 6 defensive and push Nicholson to a wing where he can use his fitness and therefore leave our more dangerous forward in the forward line. That results in Jetta out which is fine by me he has always struggle to impact games up forward. The one decision I don't like is Bail still in but if Byrnes is injured and Jetta isn't really a forward who else do we have? The only name at Casey is Taggert and he's probably not ready yet. Oh and before I get Fitzy will come in and replace Gawn and that is fine as well. Neeld (especially with such an overpowered midfield) wants more run and pressure from forwards so isn't going to play Gawn, Jamar and Fitzy. We've got Watts and Howe as mobile targets up forward anyway. For all those talking about Gawn being dropped are probably the same hippocrits who profess love for Geelong's system of development through the VFL. We all know big Max is an important part of the future but he isn't ready yet. He came in with a heap of energy and vigour and has lost that and isn't finding the ball when forward and in the ruck isn't contributing a lot either. Jamar continues to give our midfield first use of the ball and is mixing up his hit points and tactics. Yes he's not contributing around the ground but neither was Max. Let's give Gawn a few weeks in the VFL if he stars he can then take Jamar's spot with confidence not a we had no one else style promotion.

That is one of the most stupid football articles I have ever read. The logic is moronic. Another argument he should have, would be that, as we have played many games and lost most, we don't deserve a PP because we had the chance to win games and failed to do so.

No i think if he was asked about players and their gear he would say something like: 'as much as the footy public want to see players turn up with their gear it will not be how we measure success. I mean i understand why supporters expect players to turn up with their gear, i get that, i do, but for us its about the process and the elements that if put together correctly will mean that the end result will be the players will turn up with their gear. But we can't be all about the end point. As i said our focus will be on the sub elements and process and this week the emphasis will be on the boys remembering to pack their bags correctly in the first instance. Our expectation is the boys pack their bag with an elite mindset, but look it is what is. We have the least experienced AFL side ever to play the game. They're going to make mistakes, sometimes their socks will be missing or they'll pack the white shorts instead of the blue ones. But they'll learn and when they build their routines and get them to the elite level, well they will have correctly packed bags and regularly attend matches with them ready to go. But supporters have to be patient, i get that might be frustrating, i do but we see the boys at the club and fans don't and they have been training to pack bags at a level that will allow them to make the next step Good sides do the small things well and when they are done well the result will look after itself.'

WJ, as usual, a very eloquent post from you. I acknowledge that much of what you said is true. I gave to this Club, because I live red and blue. I know that sounds cliche and I do not want to be trite about this. I grew up in the northern suburbs, in a working class family, surrounded by Collingwood and Essendon supporters. My 4 older brothers barracked for Collingwood. I was anything but the stereotypical Melbourne supporter, so often portrayed and lampooned in the media. I followed my late father, who, having been born and bred in Sydney and somewhat of a renegade himself, refused to bow to the pressure of his peers and chose to support the team that carried the name of his adopted city and home. I still have fond memories of him somehow cadging a couple of tickets for the 1964 Grand Final. That epic day ensured that I would remain a Demon for life. As I suspect you did, I witnessed the quick demise of a dynasty from 1965 onwards. I lived through the excruciating '70's and the lean early to mid 80's, but the embers of my passion, like many of us, were re-kindled by the inspiration of Swooper Northey, the deeds of a young Irishman and a list of players who were by no means over endowed with talent, but played for each other, the jumper, their coach and the MFC. These blokes brought pride back to the club, despite the fact that they had to ply their trade with less than satisfactory facilities. To be a Demons supporter means you understand tragedy and irony. A modicum of masochism doesn't go astray either. But we push on. I have sat in the Southern Stand, the old Olympic stand, which, for all of its ugliness, by the time it was demolished, gave me such fond memories. I felt the spirt of Norm Smith, Ron Barassi, Hassa Mann, Bluey Adams, Johnny Townsend, Froggy Crompton, Brian Dixon, Wrecker Leahy, Ray Groom, John Lord; the list goes on. I have sat in the old smokers stand as well and the new members. Of course, while we might yearn for better days, we can't live in the past. But over all those days and contrary to the urban myth, I have learned that our supporters come from all walks of life and are as passionate about their footy club as any other. And so it is with the Foundation Heroes. We come from all walks of life, but bonded by a desire to see our beloved footy club pull itself out of the mire of mediocrity. Some could afford to pay more than others, but the motivation to give had the same value and currency. On that first night in Kensington, we were provided with a plan; a vision for the future. We believed again and felt a sense of unity and confidence that had been missing for so long. While we accepted that the path forward would not be a short one and was likely to have twists and turns, if not detours, we believed we indeed were going forward. While we give freely, we also entrust those to whom we give our money. As such, the beneficiaries have a fiduciary responsibility to keep safe that trust. Your observations regarding personal vendattas aimed at the current administration, targetted leaks, public criticism by former officer bearers/players and general destructive critiques of the club have veracity. However, in my view, we, faced with doing business in an increasingly more competitive and cut throat environment, have never been lower. While I agree, any changes which are made need to be carefully planned and implemented, to save even further destabilisation, in my view change is needed and the change must be extensive, or we risk our very existence. Like you, I will give to this footy club again. My conscience (heart) would not let me do otherwise. However, neither you, nor I can guarantee that our confrere's will turn up and give in the same numbers as previously. The most important lesson in any business is that you look after your existing clients, as it is cheaper than trying to attract new ones. That is just marketing 101. Go you Demons!!!!

Not a problem Satyriconhome but I did a count and there seems to be more than 140 characters in the text.