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so, you are withdrawing a criticism and replacing it with a new criticism....right?

This thread keeps going because those who support MN, those who do not believe in MN's approach, and those who are newbies to the thread, all show that there is a strong spirit of support for MFC - the club is greater than the individual - the posters may not all agree (sometimes quite strongly!), but they do care and they are prepared to spend a lot of time expressing their support, one way or another!

I agree this is not the time for knee jerk reactions about the coaching position but the jungle drums are beating. I like your approach and it resonates with me because it reminds me of another time when everybody seemed to be baying for the blood of one of our coaches. I might be digressing a bit but, as a club we were in a sad and sorry state in 1986 when John Northey took up the coaching mantle. The Barassi five year plan had seemingly gone awry and although we started off well enough under Northey (but we lost the night series game against North Adelaide!!), we fell into a massive mid season slump with regular defeats in excess of 100 points. Carlton beat us by 116 points at the G, Essendon by 122 points also at the G and we copped a belting from Sydney by 124 at the SCG. Even wooden spooners St. Kilda (who only won one other game that year) thrashed us at Moorabbin by 52 points. I remember leaving VFL Park Waverley after another devastating defeat at the hands of Hawthorn (about 11 goals) and the supporters outside the ground were calling for Northey to be sacked. Then something unusual happened ... Former Hawk Don Scott was a commentator (3LO I think) and, as I was driving home, I expected him to come out with a scathing attack on the club. Instead, he actually complimented Northey and the way he was coaching. Said he had a purpose in what he was doing and he just had to drill that into the players. He felt that eventually the players would get it right and improvement would come quicker than people might think. I was gobsmacked and personally thought Scott was nuts but twelve months later, we clicked as a team and went deep into the finals. I know the cirumstances are different today and Melbourne did end 1986 with a fair number of wins (mostly against fellow cellar dwellers) but, to overcome numerous debiltating morale defeating losses and 12 months later beat North Melbourne by over 118 points in our first final in 23 years was something to behold. I don't think you're nuts AOB but, after seeing Scott's prophesy come to fruition all those years ago, I reckon you just might be onto something*. * if not we're really stuffed

Hi. First post. I'm from Geelong and so have followed Neeld's career for a while. Melbourne supporter for 45 years. There was a moment after the drawn Grand Final when Neeld was the midfield coach (I think) for the Pies. A minute or two after the final siren, the TV coverage was zooming in on players and coaches in shock, trying to deal with the fact that they had another week to go. The camera then panned past Neeld and he already had his midfield group in a huddle and he was busy preparing them for the following week. Meanwhile Buckley, Malthouse et. al. were falling about looking helpless. I said to myself then that Collingwood would win the following week... If you track his coaching career, he's had nothing but success. 4 consecutive premierships at Ocean Grove. He turned Western Jets from perennial whipping boys (could barely win a game) to finalists in three seasons. In between he was at St. Josephs in the GFL for a year and he completely turned over the list and went with youngsters but then was offered assistant positions at Bulldogs and Collingwood. Wherever he's been he has won friends and made enemies - because he is clear about what is needed for clubs to be successful and he just goes for it. Players liked him at Collingwood. He identified a soft culture at MFC - a whole host of players who were just happy being AFL players (win, lose or draw. He's given them a chance to show that they want to win and those who haven't shown enough have been shown the door. There'll be more. Not exactly a recipe for making friends. I sense (I don't know) that there are still players who are dark on him for having lost mates from the club. For Neeld, he wouldn't care less. His job is to find a group of players who will work hard together to become successful. That's my take on him. He's made mistakes but he won't die wondering. Stick with him. Give him his three years. On Sunday I saw a far more competitive effort by a group who were hopelessly outclassed and still low on confidence. We need another go at the draft table for Neeld to assemble the kind of group that he'd be happy with. Leave him be. Support the club. When the wins come, enjoy them.

Latest Craig Report suggests that this will happen! Watch it and you'll see, Magner will start this week.

Exactly right. Let him play his natural ball winning, in and under game and he'll be good for us this season.

We had players on Saturday doing things that haven't happened for a long, long time. Col Garland leaving his man to crash a pack to help out Chip. Dunn negating Judd the ENTIRE game. JV and MJ helping Nate Jones to become a damaging ball carrier that he is. Dean Terlich running in a straight line. Tapscott finding his niche. And the most exciting? Sylvia is starting to play like the player he can be. We are getting there.

That is pathetic, and sickening, Sylvia loves the club, wander down to Gosch's and say it to his face hero

I suppose you developed this dislike for "private school boys" as a result of your living in that notoriously working class suburb of Balwyn North? Just give me guys who can play skillful hard at it football regardless of their education, body decoration or anything else you may care to list.

I just can't believe the short sightedness of some posters here......We hired a coach to BUILD a side that will be sustainable finals side......This cannot be done in 1 year.....I realise that people want INSTANT success....but have no patience for this to occur.......People want a new coach...an instant messiah to cure all our woes.....and they want it NOW.....When Neeld was hired....He stated that it would take three years to get this footy club up to AFL standard....and people accepted this.....But as soon as the losses came they all just threw up their hands and said SACK the coach.....God I hate this thread....

If I remember rightly Magner was our best player in the first three games last year and was playing well until he was moved from the middle and then rested.

Last year Magner was the club's equal 4th Vote-Getter in the Brownlow, just sayin'.

Saw Chip watching his mates play at Casey Saturday, didn't look like someone planning on walking out on said mates IMO

GNF, your posts can be so tiresome. These are just your personal opinions yet you make out they are based on fact. I suggest you have no idea as to what is going on within confines of the club or know what the players think about Neeld. I suggest you have no idea as to whether he's a natural manager or not. You basically have no idea about anything. You are just commentating from the cheap seats. Just my opinion.

I like Cooney when he's flying, but I would always be more than a little concerned about his knee preventing him from playing his best football; after all, it is a degenerative knee problem, so is unlikely to improve, but quite likely to fail him again (just a matter of when). Also, I would hope the Dogs can keep him rather than weakening their list even further... I feel a little sorry for them as they are the one club that has been in the wilderness even longer than us. Let's raid GWS or GCS or let's go for FAs at clubs who have at least tasted success.

Your kidding if you think Daisy hasnt much to offer our side. We are desperate for players in his age bracket who can lead.

What an absolute load of rubbish... Jones is a reasonably bright person who carries himself quite well in interviews - he certainly does not fall behind when it comes to IQ levels. In the past my only issue was that he seemed a little introverted, but that is certainly no longer the case; his confidence in himself as a person and a leader has grown with his confidence in his footballing abilities.

A leader is a man who leads; a captain is a man who tosses a coin every week. Nathan Jones is a leader. He needs no titles.

He is better than Howe every day of the week and twice on sundays. He is better than viney and will be for 2 more years. He is better than clark because he can stay injury free. In terms purely of performance he is better than all on your list. Now ask yourself how many key backs we have at the club and how many mids. If we lose him we have no replacement. If neeld has lost players and the players are not just being ultra sooks, then neeld goes. We cannot keep losing experience and talent.

The MFC brand was damaged long before Mark Neeld took over He hasn't helped it much yet......... but has at least 38 games to improve it (if he makes it to the end of his contract) Next argument........

Good to see so much team debate - just show how crap a side we have become. Here's mine. In: Dawes (no point paying him $500K a year to play in the VFL) Toumpas (given they cocked up when to play him originally and he missed out on GWS game, surely he must play against the Suns - VFL has bye anyway) Fitzpatrick (deserves a shot after recent VFL form, but must come at expense of Spencer otherwise we will be back to the top-heavy days of Rds1-5). Blease (they love saying how good he's going to be, yet they keep subbing or dropping him. Let him play and make mistakes, but we need to know if he has vision to make it). Out: Grimes (will be sadly missed) Spencer (he will make a really good VFL ruckman one day). McKenzie (is he really going to stop Ablett?) Kent (he might make it down the track, but this is the game for Toumpas and Blease)

Give him a damn game! By golly he deserves it more than anyone. Has worked harder than anyone to get even a look in at AFL level., and regularly dominates the VFL.

Magner's inclusion would take a lot of pressure off Jones and Viney.

Thanks jazza... I'm not happy either atm, but I can see a change - a change that hasn't occurred for years. Bigger bodies, more discipline, more accountability. Neeld must stay.

Like Schwab would do that crap! He is the one who's notes have allowed this criticism to be withdrawn as we told the AFL in an earlier meeting. Let him be.

Okay, so let's not teach our players any defensive part of their game. Let's allow players to run around unchecked, unfit, ill disciplined and petulant. Let's keep the NQRs that have been clogging our list for 5, 6 or 7 years. Let's ignore that our draft selections have been pathetic. Let's keep outdated training methods and snare a big win every now and then to keep the 'chaps' and the Redlegs happy. You have no vision.

I want Neeld sacked because he has made so many bad decisions in such a short time. Principally, my key issue with Neeld is that his overall philosophy of football is far too defensive and too ridged. This is reflected by his game plan which does not suit our list. We have a team of inferior talent, and therefore we should be encouraged more to roll the dice/take risks. Neeld’s current ‘risk free’ approach is anything but and is highly predictable and flawed (as demonstrated by the results). I also think it is nonsensical for a coach to be fixed on a game style given how quickly the game evolves, especially given how far away we are from a position to win a flag. Who knows, AFL could be a 16 a side game by that stage. A flexible approach is the only way to go. I also highly suspect Neeld has disenfranchised a number of key players. The decision to demote and denigrate the previous leadership group and openly criticise players in the media before even meeting them was divisive and hasn’t paid off. We are playing with little confidence at the moment and IMO this likely stems from Neeld’s initial foray into the club and his ‘robotic’ game plan. With the list, I have issues with the decisions give Jamar and McKenzie three-year contracts, letting Moloney and Martin go, recruiting Dawes (given the price, both draft picks and salary, and given the number of other key forwards on our list), Byrnes (given the price, two year contract and his age), as well as Rodan, Pederson and Gilles, who are too old/not up to it. The retentions of Troy Davis and Tom Couch were also errors in my view. (While Couch may be seen as unimportant given he is a rookie, it meant that we were forced to take mature agers Terlich and Matt Jones in the National Draft. Effectively Couch’s retention cost us pick 53.) While I could understand one or two errors in terms of list management, 10 is just too many IMO. His bad decisions extend to team selection/game day positioning. This is highlighted by his use of Rivers, Garland, Moloney and Magner as forwards for much of last year. Jack Watts is clearly not a small defender and should be showing more than he is currently. I am under no illusion that MFC’s current position is largely due to the lack of talent on our list. However, the coach needs to be measured on his ability to get the most out of the team and IMO he has badly failed to date on this score. The reasons for moving early are to give a caretaker a chance to prove his worth and to help in player retention for next year. Waiting to sack him later in the year is just delaying the inevitable and we would be better off letting our players play a more instinctual game. Einstein summed up MFC’s current position when he said ‘Insanity is doing the same things again and again expecting different results’.

i think we should get him so he can keep Dawesy and Mitch company at the clinic

It is a shame this debate is taking place but consider the context that has provoked it: we are in the tougher half of our season's draw. Expansions aside, the first 11 rounds include eight against finals contenders as perceived at the start of the year, plus Port Adelaide who have clearly taken big strides over summer (off a better base than us). Rounds 12-22 look to be a better measure of where we stand with games against the Bdogs (twice), the expansions (on the road), the Saints, Norf, Brisbane again and contenders like Sydney and Freo. By this time Clark and Grimes and Watts and Dawes should all be available and even if some are not the teams in the second half include those we can better measure ourselves against. And finally, I am with M Jones when he says the scoreboard did not do us justice last week. We were better than that and for whatever reason are playing better football than in rounds one to three.

What is the smartest tool in the shed?

would everyone here have fired Mark Thompson or Damien Hardwick, or even Mick Malthouse, although we have not played well early on this season ,we are in the second year of a full list rebuild, anyone who thought the players we had brought in were going to carry us up the ladder are plain daft, these players were for leadership, and bigger bodies to chop out some of our smaller bodies, and provide depth in the case of injuries. Make no mistake, we are going through a rebuild of the club, player group, tactics and culture and there is no way that we can sack the person who is on the front of it so early into what he is beginning. is this an ideal start to the season? no! are there positives from most of the games? yes! did the game against carlton show that other than a few lapses in concentration and vital skill that our application is there and that we are working the game plan and game style out? yes! at the end of the day we are missing our top 2 key forwards, and we dont have the depth to cover it. our midfield is pretty much the least experienced in the afl, and this is where games are won, once we add 50-100 games to these players, 2 - 3 seasons we will have a much greater idea of where we sit, if in 2 years time we are not competitive, then neeld will be in trouble, but at the end of the day when our core midfield group doesnt have the cattle to win matches then we will not win matches. Rucks: Jake Spener: 17 games Max Gawn: 7 games Mids: Nathan Jones:141 games Jack Grimes: 59 games Matt Jones: 6 games Lynden Dunn:101 games Rohan Bail: 40 games Jordie Mckenzie:60 games Michael Evans: 8 games Colin Sylvia: 144 games Jack Viney: 5 games which is a touch over 50 games average between them! compare that to any of the other midfields we come up against and no doubt this is the major gap! None the less my point is, sure we have not played many "good" games, and our results on paper do not look great but we have definitely been showing signs of improvement, the foundation is there, and we have out project manager, let him get his project underway and if its faulty at the end of it then we will have another melbourne eye just laying around, but there is no doubt that we should let him work on what he is trying to do!

I am a very different person to you in that the wins and losses don't make as much difference to my thoughts as they do to yours. I know you will dismiss this as madness because that's just the way you are wired to think. But I work differently. I am looking in the longer term to you. I am looking at Neeld and wondering about whether he is moulding a team that can be successful long term. At the moment I am neither here nor there, but I do know that those advocating for an immediate sacking are not necessarily thinking about anything past their own nose (and emotions).

i love my mother to absolute death, our family has gone through many hardships and she is our shining light. I use "ol'" lovingly as in "ol' yeller." (except without the rabies.)

What people seem to forget regarding the mature age players Neeld bought in is he did it to help the young players he recruited. In the senior players he moved on he saw a bunch of players who didn't understand or know what it took to win a Premiership. In Byrnes, Dawes and to a lesser extent Gillies and Rodan he saw guides. He didn't see stars to improve us this year. He saw players to help around the club and help transform our club into a Premiership possibility. Looking at his recruits this year I'd say he's done a good job of transforming our playing group.

Should happen, won't happen.

Woah woah, lets not go crazy. Tommy Mac can at least defend, and has runs on the board. Please let us never compare him, or anyone who has ever played a good game in red & blue, to that weird bearded man whos existence at our club confuses and enrages me. McDonald is having a stinker of a season, but he can play, and his kicking is passable, his confidence just seems to be well down.

Xavier Ellis - we already have too many private school boys. Give me force-of-nature, tattooed, toothless bumpkins or hulking chip-on-shoulder Diamond Valley ferals desperate to make careers as league footballers. Gimme size, power and attitude.

Isn't he basically co-captain anyway? I was of the belief that even though Trenners and Grimes are "officially" captains, the leadership group collectively has the same goal to lead the group. Making him "co-captain" wouldn't change anything aside from making fans think he is actually doing more than what he's already doing. "Captain" these days is really just "media front" anyway. Nothing would change. He's already captain. Giving him the official title will just...well...give him an official title. Wait until 2014.

yeah , heaven forbid we get a proven 25 year old star with a wealth of finals experience under his belt already i mean, what difference could he possibly make to our team?

Has anyone noticed that a core group of players such as Matt Jones, Nathan Jones, Terlich, Garland, Howe, Gawnanator, Grimes, Viney,tMac and Tappy are starting to build a good core group. Oh and i forgot, especially Colin Sylvia, the guy has now put in a complete start to the year (except for the bombers game, which we all got obliterated). This core group, plus Clark, Dawes, Toump and Hogan to come in can actually make Melbourne into something. I seriously am confident that this can become our future. We may not be classy yet, but With Matt Jones and Nathan Jones these two ball magnets can lead us. Note have left out Watts andTrengove as i am really confused to the way they have been going lately, quite disappointed actually

I support what Neeld is doing, and understand that we are not going to fix things in a season and a bit. He has said from the start that it will take 3 years, and I hope the club gives him that time. At worst, I would hope they give him at least until near the end of this season. If that is the case, and he gets the next 10-12 rounds, for the people that want him gone immediately, is there anything that could change your mind? Will a couple of unexpected wins and some good performances against stronger teams change your minds? Or does it not matter what happens, you just want him gone?

Stef Martin was really smart, should he have been captain instead?

He identified a soft culture at the club. Did he? Let's say a few young players did not attack the ball as he would have liked, was this representative of a culture within the club? There are 40 odd on the list. Overall I felt comfortable with the list in 2010/11. I acknowledge the terrible loss in 2011 but I again point out that Sheedy lost a match by 160 odd points in his 2nd or 3 rd year. So I was cross when Bailey was sacked, just as I was [censored] off when Daniher was sacked mid season. So why do I feel that Neeld must go now? I deplore his miserable treatment of senior players right from the beginning. His criticism of the previous regime. His absurd suggestion that those doing further education could be compelled to abandon their courses for a year. I deplore the absence of a gameplan suitable for Melbourne's list.. His abandonment of the good features of Bailey's gameplan. His nonsensical sale of players who MAY have a future to be replaced by 28 yo has beens . His pathetic claim that our pre season results were ok when they were poor. I would like a bloke to COACH kids. Take the maligned Morton. He had 90 odd disposals in his first 3 games. A no- hoper? I don't think so. Or Moloney. A flawed type in some respects, yet he can play. Sort out the problem, don't give up on him. Is Michael Voss a softy? The season is not yet shot. I favour Craig as a replacement. He had success at Adelaide. I doubt that an outsider can be got in immediately. I'm absolutely certain that a change now would produce not only immediate but also long term benefits.

Outs: We are here to develop and become the hardest team to beat. You aren't expected to win while doing so. The first option at all times is to look outside and kick towards the boundary, but don't overdo the handball! The 2nd option - "Hit the Boundary!" It's ok to Kick/Hack the ball towards a contest when under any degree of pressure, even to a 2 on 1 or a 3 on 1 against.... as long as it's towards the boundary! Generally Ignore disposals to overlap runners who are clear and heading inside ie., towards the corridor Generally Ignore disposals to overlap runners who are clear and forward of play and free ie., heading quickly towards our goals and likely to impact the scoreboard or give it off to someone who can! Defenders/Mid Fielders, feel free to run & carry, but all other defenders/mid fielders who don't have possession can only move laterally and slowly. Don't run forward in waves to support or spread in order to create heaps of overlap options! Allow other mid fielders and on ballers to generally get the ball first so you can then tackle them and create another stoppage. If you happen to get first possession at a stoppage do not handball quickly to fellow players using the old "1 2" and definitely no "3" to an outside runner! Do not overdo the handball, in fact you should rarely handball unless it's to a target standing still or looking like they're about to be gang tackled! There's no such thing as a speedy/classy outside runner around here! Anyone looking like a speedy/outside runner will spend weeks at Casey. Anyone overdoing the handball in order to effectively clear the congestion in an attempt to find a speedy/classy outside runner that we don't have...will spend more weeks at Casey No 2nd or 3rd efforts in order to protect the ball carrier once you've given off that 1 (and 1 only at a time) handball, any firther handball attempts in succession should be at the feet of fellow player No 2nd or 3rd efforts in order to create another option for the player you just gave the ball to, especially running forward of that player! Training like AFL footballers on the track means you are close to being one on game day. Just do the same on game day. Keep training. It will happen. Use more Pantene. It will happen. It will! Brian Royal Jade Rawlings Leigh Brown Paul Satterley Aaron Greaves Andrew Nichol Neil Craig Mark Neeld Ins: We are here to win at all costs or die trying If that means defending a lead in order to win (and you are told to), defend. If that means attack at all costs in order regain the lead....go all out attack (Pssst....you don't need to be told to do this part!). If we are in the lead you can still attack and try and smash your opponent unless told otherwise. We never give in and we don't accept 2nd best....period. Anyone who looks like they've given up during any passage of play or shirks a contest is in danger of spending weeks at Casey and risks never playing seniors football with this club again (subject to a severe injury/hammy during a chase or heading towards a contest) Reversal of the above "Outs" (excluding Coach references) Bomber Thompson or Paul Roos (Coach) Mark Neeld (Assistant Coach) Dermot Brereton (Forward Line Coach) Cameron Mooney (Forward Line Development Coach) Cameron Ling (Mid Field Coach) Simon Black (Mid Field Development Coach) Matthew Scarlett (Back Line Coach) Darren Milburn (Back Line Development Coach) Brad Ottens (Part Time Ruck Coach)

I think he's been great this year. Very harsh to rate him so poorly. He's finally stepping up and showing us what he can do. If he gets over his yips he'll be hitting the scoreboard as well. I don't think they'll even consider dropping him if he keeps this up.

Haha - ahh lawdy one thread not enough GNF Pretty sure i saw a young Neeld on the grassy knoll as well

The only recruit I have any issue with is Pedersen. I said it at the time and I still think that we paid way too much for an ordinary player. He's shown he's not really good enough for AFL and he doesn't have any of the qualities the others bring in terms of leadership and experience. Byrnes has been exactly what we wanted him to be in the senior side. He is setting the example on how to play at the top level. He does all the hard things that most of our team don't seem to know how to do. Dawes has been injured, obviously, but we know he can play. Rodan was always going to be a bit player, but he has provided great leadership around the club and t training, in particular working with Viney on his stoppage work. I also saw someone comment that providing a good example at Casey is worthless. I would disagree given that this is where most of our developing players are at the moment. He is helping to ensure that they are learning the right way to do things.

So many excuses. They said he wasn't carrying anything last year, when the season ended. Why cover anything up when the season is done? It came out that Frawley was injured during last season.., In any event, he's out there, he's fair game. Carrying something? Do the team/captain thing, put your hand up and hit the rehab group. Rather than make us a man down any time there's a lose ball or anything that resembles a foot race. Of all the rubbish we are watching, this is one of the hardest things to watch. And Nathan Jones... Just walk in and announce you are now the captain. You have to do everything else yourself, so why not.

I'm really surprised by the Spencer-love on here. He was thoroughly beaten in ruck and around the ground. Did show some good endeavour and also some remarkable bursts of speed, but is not quite AFL yet. However, the view I got of him was enough to move him off the 'turkeys' list. He did alright for a young inexperienced ruckman who really should be fourth choice (Jamar, Clark, Gawn), but clearly not a No.1 ruck yet. Kind of the story of our team at the moment. He may do a bit better against Gold Coast than against Carlton's Warnock/Hampson pair. You'd assume he'd get another game and keep getting them until Jamar is 100% and has torn apart a VFL game. Anyway, Toumpas, Blease and Magner were apparently the standouts for Casey, and all three might have a spot against Gold Coast given how many of our guys struggle to get their hands on the ball. Ultimately the decision must be made on efforts - we will only turn things around when everyone on the field is making a full effort and confident that their teammates are as well. Terlich, for example, fluffed it a few times but damn he is good to see out there.

I'm pretty sure I heard the umpire say 'contact goal attack'