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I reckon our coaching group is one of the better coaching groups in the league now. Neeld, Craig, Misson, Rawlings, Brown - on any construction, that's a bloody good group. The training sessions seem to run with military precision. They seem to be very well organised - energy levels seem to be high. This is all good. I also can't believe how effectively they've tweaked the list this year. Imagine if we managed to pull off an Oakland Athletics revival circa 2002, and actually make the finals in 2013. I'd give the middle digit to every single person I pass in the street for three months straight after September. Yep - it's not the flag. But it's not that long ago that we got thumped by 186 points in an AFL game - and, at that point, I had pretty much given up hope of ANY light at the end of the tunnel. Thank you Mark Neeld. Good training reports by the way.

Hi everyone, Years ago in my final year of Uni doing Film and TV I did a documentary on football fans as my graduate project. I've been meaning to put it online for ages and finally did it. It features our very own Mohawk (who was a top bloke to meet and have in the film) as well as different types of fans from Carlton, Collingwood, West Coast, and St Kilda. I'm very proud of it, and despite the fact it's a bit out of date with things (as it was filmed in 2008) the crux of the story about footy fans still gets across. Anyway, thought some people on here might be interested to see it. It runs for 12min and in my opinion Angelo (aka Mohawk) has the best line, I'll give you a hint; he talks about our old friend McLaren. Enjoy! https://vimeo.com/57635790

And probably also have to question why he was fourth in the Bluey last year, and won the coaches award for 3 years in a row ... and under two different coaches. They obviously know nothing down at head office.

I thought Jim Stynes was the best thing to happen to the Melbourne Footy Club for a long time. I think his legacy will live on long past this ridiculous and petty investigation is consigned to the annals of a long list of stuff ups by the AFL. Jim was good friends and completely trusted Don McLardy. Don in turn promised Jim to do his best to carry through their vision to get the MFC back on track and a viable, vibrant and relevant part of the sporting landscape in Melbourne. Don McLardy and the MFC among many others handled the passing of Jim less than a year ago with dignity and reverance to a great man. I don't know much else about Don McLardy except he has a reluctance to be thrust into the spotlight. But he is carrying out Jim's wishes to the best of his ability, in obviously very tough times. And yet you Hazy while hiding behind a nom de plume and a keyboard keep being disrespectful to Don and others who at least are standing up and fighting for what they believe in, the MFC. I actually think the MFC has handled this witch hunt reasonably well by keeping quiet. I think you would do better Hazy to look at ways you can help out, stand up, be something rather than the pathetic negative figure you represent skulking around these forums.

I went along to training today, again. I have been to 3 sessions over the past week or so, so I think I have gained a fair bit over the sessions. Firstly, the way they are training is very impressive. That is, the structure and style being set out by the coaching group is impressive. I particularly like the way the sessions are completed in 3 main groups. The mids/forwards and defenders basically do all drills and acticities together at all times. it is a great way to get accustomed to each other and form more knowledge on how to work together. Secondly, the effort being put in by all players is super. The drills they are doing require heaps of running while using the balls. It is always moer enjoyable chasing a ball rather than just running. To start with my only real negative, the skills still need work. There are some players with fine skill, however, in general, we still miss targets too often. On the positives, individually: Hogan - A big young man and I look forward to his development at Casey. The work he is putting in this year will be great for the future. Dawes - Moves very well and I am very happy he is with us. He and Clark in tandem will be a tough matchup for oher teams. Davey - He is moving freely, it is the first time in years he is walking without a limp. With his skills I am looking for a big year. Rodan and Byrnes - Both have good voices and instruct people well. I think they have plenty to offer, particularly since they havve good skills and pace. Tynan - Extremely impressed by his size and athleticism. Looking for a big year from him. Viney - In the match simulation drills he is always on the bottom of packs and has great recovery. Gillies- Looks to be a solid defender and moves well. Is being earmarked for a spot in round 1. Watts - His legs look stong and his judgement in the drills is sublime. If he can be the 3rd or 4th tall I think his future is looking very good. His skills are just that good, he needs to run off the back line. Jetta - Really impressed by his effort and he seems to be quicker than I thought. HIs toughness will help the backline out. Spencer - I actually think he will be the number 1 ruckman very soon. He is huge and he has a dip (as does Jamar) but his athleticism is better. His kicking has improved, but he should be a handball first player. Jones/Grimes - both have great voices and they train well every time. Grimes is training with the mids so I would think more time in there for him this year. Blease - as others have said, his speed is the thing. In some of the drills today he ran and carried the ball for 3 or 4 bounces. He is getting better at giving the ball off, but he still needs to be sure he gives off the first option more often. Terlich - I really like the look of him, his skills are pretty good and he is really fast. Have the feeling he may be a regular this year. Kent - As seen in the highlights reel of his, he has a great kick on him. He is also really solid (as are all the players now) Needs to improve his decision making though. Fitzpatrick - Still looks unco, but he is so quick and athletic for his size. I am just not sure what position he would play. There are others to talk about, but if you have any specific questions I can answer them, as I have seen heaps of training so far (the life of a teacher!) Overall though, I am happy with what I have seen so far, the fitness and effort has improved from previous years and as a whole we seem to be able to train at a higher intensity for longer times. I am not expecting miracles this year, but I think a vast improvement is on the cards.

The tanking debate will continue for some weeks to come and I think it will continue beyond the time of the resolution of the current investigation. Watching the Oprah interview of Lance Armstrong, I couldn't help but wonder why cycling authorities the world over allowed their sport to degenerate to its current low point. Lou Sweeney sums it up in The Lance and Oprah Show: "I pretty much knew already you couldn't ride a bike up a mountain at full tilt for three weeks on just a muesli bar and Jesus." We knew the evils that beset the sport and cycling authorities took on and conquered some offenders but Armstrong, who was suspected of drug cheating by some commentators, was given free rein for too long a time. There are some who are now suggesting that cycling be removed from the Olympics. It's also a bit reminiscent of prohibition and marihuana laws. They were brought in for a reason but they didn't quite work and the way in which they were enforced led to accusations of corruption by authorities. Now we have this investigation where one club has been chosen as the target for investigation when we know that the relevant rule has been and continues to be breached by other clubs whose activities have been ignored. GWS dropped 10 players one week in 2012 and were rewarded with Lauchie Whitfield but this was OK; the coach apparently played the game on its merits. There are those who will say that the MFC invited it because its officials mishandled the situation by talking out of school or by being too obvious in the way they conducted their list management. If that is the case it still begs the question why other clubs weren't investigated. In 2007, a Carlton board member boasted to me about Fevola being rested to allow his club to snare pick #1 and a "big fish". They did that after winning losing the Kreuzer Cup. A closer look at some other late 2007 Carlton games really indicates how obvious the Blues were in their attempts. None of this absolves Melbourne if it really "tanked" but the AFL CEO had previously defined tanking and list management and, based on his narrow definition of the act of tanking, I can't see how Melbourne tanked on the basis of what I've read to date*. Moreover, I believe that the rule against tanking is inadequate for what the AFL is apparently trying to achieve. To my mind, the existing rule is bad law and it's lack of execution against a succession of others before Melbourne makes the current investigation a farce. The AFL has to find a way out of this and then make new and better laws for the future. This selective attack on one club alone will leave it open to further claims of incompetence at best and possibly corruption at worst. * I maintain that the issue of defining "tanking" is not the same as whether a club wants to win games or whether a particular club's actions are morally defensible. In Melbourne's case I covered those matters back in 2009. For the record, I supported us not winning more than 5 games but still found the idea repulsive.

We're in heated agreement on that. I posted an explanation at the end of the AFL Investigation thread as to why it was closed. That thread had degenerated and veered so far off topic that it reached the point where it was almost unreadable. This is an attempt to continue discussion on a rational basis and, to achieve that, the level of moderation will be stricter. Posts involving personal abuse, bullying and flaming will be deleted and repeat offenders will be given holidays and ultimately banned. Hopefully, it won't come to that and people will get the message.

Draft tampering was one of the charges recently brought against Adelaide and Kurt Tippett along with salary cap breaches but that was a case where the Crows admitted to hanky panky over Tippett's contract negotiations. The AFL does issue the odd threat about draft tampering but, a few years ago, it ignored Luke Ball's refusal to talk to clubs other than the one he wanted to go to and even his medical files were not made available for assessment by any other club. They should have thrown the book at him but Collingwood was involved and, these days, you don't want to upset the stronger teams, do you? You do have to go back a long way to find any meaningful action from the AFL on draft tampering. In 1989, Brett Chalmers of Port Adelaide (SANFL) was drafted by Richmond but he remained in SA (MFC draftees from around that time who did the same were Darren Jarman and Paul Rouvray). Three years later, the Tigers tried to trade Chalmers to Collingwood as their hold on him was about to expire. The Pies offered peanuts in return and Chalmers subsequently went into the 1992 draft a hot favourite to be selected in the top three. Collingwood was investigated at Richmond's request but there was no evidence of any breach by the Pies and they were exonerated. On draft day, the clubs were reluctant to select Chalmers who finally went to Collingwood at 10. Melbourne selected Martin Pike at 9 although its recruiters had been keen to select Chalmers. It transpired that, on the night before the draft, Chalmers faxed a letter to the clubs with picks 1 to 9 indicating that he would be staying with Port Adelaide in 1993 and following that wanted to go to his chosen club, the AFL Magpies. In May 1993, Chalmers was one of three Port Adelaide Magpie players brought up on draft tampering charges (Andrew McKay and Robert Pyman were the others). All were adamant they only wanted to play for Collingwood. McKay and Pyman were subsequently fined $10k each for refusing to speak to any other club but Chalmers had gone a step further with his fax saying he wanted only to play for Collingwood. He was fined $30k and banned from playing for the AFL Magpies for 3 years. Later, he had a stint with each of the AFL's SA teams. Of course, the draft tampering in that case was far different to that which has now been apparently raised against Melbourne, but given Dean Bailey's vehement denial of allegations that he instructed his players to lose, one wonders about the validity of such a charge? How could this "tampering" have affected any other club or any players involved in the draft if nothing was actually done on the field to influence any of the results which ultimately determine the team placings upon which the draft is dependent?

the board may well have said to the FD something along the lines that you have our approval to prioritise the development of the the team for the medium to long term at the expense of the short term. now that would be reasonable and not uncommon in the afl or other professional sports this could give the FD enough freedom to extend that to list management specifically to optimise the clubs drafting choices by bottoming out as others had done previously So because the board may have sanctioned a re-building priority it doesn't mean it explicitly gave permission to what the proposed afl charges are alleging (notwithstanding the obscurity of such "laws").

Within football clubs the leadership group is considered more important than who tosses the coin. None of us are in a position to have an informed opinion on the matter, so we back the club to have made the correct choices.

The whole question of whether or not the MFC 'tanked' is almost completely irrelevant to what is happening in the public arena, which is simply a blatant case of victimisation. The AFL is bringing vague 'disrepute' clauses into play, when the present witch-hunt and media coverage is clearly bringing the MFC into disrepute. Some supporters argue that MFC is to blame for its own predicament and seem to infer from the present situation that we would deserve any 'punishment' meted out. They're foolish to think like this, and are doing the club a disservice. The whole issue IS that of singling out one club, after years of numerous clubs inevitably playing out a scenario implied, tacitly approved - even DEMANDED - by the creation of the Priority Pick. The AFL created the moral vacuum, and only they should close it in an honest and confessional fashion. Were this investigation to go to a court, the counsel for the Defence would surely call Mr Demetriou - he who denied, when and if the occasion demanded, that 'tanking' was occurring - as its first witness. There can only be a just end to the era of 'tanking' when the AFL fesses up to its own mistakes and misjudgments. There can be no other satisfactory conclusion to the matter. Further, it should be demanded that the AFL run a football competition that is not deliberately biased by fiddling with the fixture, the draft, the salary cap, kow-towing to TV stations and so on. Individual clubs should do their own soul-searching about ethics - what they are and if they should apply to succeeding in Football; the AFL cannot sit in judgment.

People who are questioning the inclusion of players in the leadership group based on how the poster sees the players football ability miss the point. Leaders are leaders and not necessarily the best players. Harley and Maxwell are two classic examples of captains who were not in the teams best dozen players but won Premierships and are considered exceptional captains. McKenzie clearly offers much as he's won the Coaches award three years in a row under three different coaches. I would have been stunned if he hadn't been included. I was critical of the appointment of Trengove and Grimes as Captains at the time last year. Trengove particularly seemed to have struggled with the role and in a recent interview alluded to the impact the captaincy had on him. But having spent a year teaching him what to do the concept of now replacing him is ludicrous and would be an embarrassment to all concerned. He's clearly captaincy material but unfortunately he was pushed into the role 3 or 4 years too early. My fear is that it may have had a permanent impact on his football. Let's hope he not only returns to his 2011 form but significantly exceeds it.

This thread has degenerated to the point where it no longer serves any purpose. It's closed. That is not to say that threads regarding the tanking issue are now banned; to the contrary, we will continue to encourage discussion and a wide range of views. However, in future we will endeavour to moderation political and other sensitive threads more strictly to prevent abuse, bullying, flaming and excessive and unreasonable posting. Thanks to deegirl for raising the issue in the opening post. It made for some interesting debate and discussion but inevitably has run its course for the reasons I gave above. PS: No offence to anyone who posted here on the last page. My observation is a general one.

NFI

Congrats to jordie...leadership group imo is about setting the example and inspiring through actions. If the little pit bull tackling machine cant get you going then your a bit of a lost cause

went to training at casey this morning noticed Pederson spent a lot of time up forward in the match simulation couple of things I noticed mind you it's only the second time I have been to training(nice place Casey saw two Eskimos and a polar bear ) Dawes was very vocal in giving orders to players around him telling them where they should be ie moving up the ground etc . Viney and rodan spent the entire match simulation in the centre and at ball ups around the ground. Both made efforts to get to every contest Viney is going to make a lot of opposition players need ice baths after they come up against him in games. His take no prisoner attitude to me hopefully will rub off on a few players around him. I think Rodan must rub oil all over him because he was able to slip out a lot of tackles. Saw Trengove,Clark,Sylvia on sidelines all moved freely Sylvia doing 100 sprints seemed un fazed.To me it looks like Clark is busting to join the main group he paces around like a bear with a sore tooth. Finally saw young Hogan for the first time today he is more solid than a lot of 2nd and 3rd year players he is about 6 to 12 inches taller then a lot of our new players

I don't think we recruited Rodan to fulfil the role of a champion. Hopefully our early draft picks of the last few years will come to the fore and provide that. Rodan's there for a purpose however, and I believe that is to add some maturity to a list that is very much lacking in experience and games played. From what I'm told, he's already making a contribution at training and it's the little one per centers that someone like him can add to the group on and off the ground that helps you develop a strong and cohesive group with a decent culture.

I went to Casey to watch training with my teenage daughter and son. Trengove appeared, but did no running. His legs have lost a lot of condition, and I guess his left leg had the injury because Dom Barry's legs were bigger than it. NIcho did some handball drills and then walked heaped of laps, finishing with some stationary kick to kick. Dunn walked laps, and then was like a sidelines coach barking instructions during some drills Clark did some handball drills but nothing else. After an extensive warm up, one group of players left to go to a distant training track. Gawn, Magner, and a few midfielders whose names I forget. The best thing about today was that almost every player was there. The only player I didn't see was Rohan Bail (edit: Jeremy Howe and Tynan also). This is the first time in a few seasons that we have had so many in full training. I can't wait for Clark, Trengove and Gawn to join in. The main drill began at stoppages. Any time there was a spilled mark or poor kick the drill was stopped and Neil Craig - who led the session - would choose a spot on the ground to start again. Every player had a one-on-one opponent each time the play stopped. The backmen looked efficient and strong, and I was super impressed with Gillies. Very big, very strong at the ball and has good awareness. The midfielders were lively and aggressive. Jones and Blease were the standouts, Davey and Jetta not far behind. But the kicking into the forward 50 was atrocious. The first 7 times they conducted this drill the ball missed the forward target 6 times. It was a bit windy (when is Casey not?!?!) but the delivery was just plain poor. Frustrating to watch. Every other aspect of the drill was impressive. Cam Pederson attacks the ball fiercely in the air but did not complete one contested mark he went for. Every 15 mins or so they would stop for a drink, and do 2 - 5 mins of in close tackling, picking moving ball up of the ground drill. I was sitting goal end and saw the defense up close. Davis and Couch hardly hit a target by foot. Joel MacDonald was running hard and kicking well. The other backmen seemed impressed with his effort and efficiency. Jade Rawlings voice among the backs never let up. Always commenting, always feeding back. If needed, he got involved and would use his weight and nouse to ruffle a few feathers. It seemed to work wonders and fired them up at times. Interesting to watch Jamar and Spencer ruck against each other. Spencer matched him for strength and positioning, but Jamar has a greater tap sense and won on maybe 2/3 of all contests. But around the ground Spencer ran well, often getting into attacking positions with Jamar trailing. I have a gut feeling he will overtake Jamar by the end of this year and could end up being our ruck duo with Gawn. Aaron Davey was lively and aggressive. I can't believe I am typing this but his tackling was spot-on, both in close and on the run. Jetta looks fit, quick, aware and strong around the footy. Dawes leading was great - however on a few occasions his great leads were ignored. One last thing that I really liked. At one stage Watts turned out of defence and delivered the ball poorly out to the back flank. Jetta gave him a brief spray, and Watts acknowledged it and took it. I had to leave at 11am. Cheers.

I sometimes worry that the folk on Demonland are so concerned about this tanking crap that they have lost sight of what is a really exciting year coming up for the footy club. I know the repercussions could be significant for MFC but there is no use worrying about things you can't control. I'm sure the club would rather we channel our energy towards talking the boys up and converting the uninitiated. Just my two cents...

"As part of the selection process, players were rated in the 10 most important categories of leadership, which included character, competence and competitiveness." Well, that's 3 out of 10. Wonder if "being most vocal" or "looking good in pre-season" are amongst the other 7?

IMO tanking is only an issue if it effects the integrity of the game. The AFL version of tanking seems to have been widely accepted in the last month or so as bottoming out. But what people forget is that teams bottom out as a last resort: they arent able to win games playing their best 22, so they play the kids and try out fringe players in different positions to see if they're any good in other roles. Its the last ditch effort to find a silver lining on an otherwise black cloud. This version of Tanking doesnt effect the integrity of the game IMO. Theres no one making big money from the bookies. What Fremantle did do secure a home final by resting players is more of an integrity issue than when the wooden spoon holder puts the que in the rack. If the AFL was dealing with Match fixing then i could understand the recent witch hunt investigation. Just like the umpires can be prone to over umpiring in recent seasons, the AFL has gone overboard with this investigation. I wonder if the ICC will investigate cricket Australia for their rotation policy and experimenting with the one day side with an eye on the 2015 world cup?!

Because Adrian Andersen doesn't know how to handle a job he doesn't have to worry about anymore.

A few things: - Being named in the centre just means you're playing in the midfield rotation. Whether it's Jones, Trengove, Viney, Byrnes; it doesn't matter. - Grimes had back stress fractures in his first season. When was the last time he was out injured with back issues? - Grimes is fast and quick, especially compared to the sluggish Moloney. His only strength was brute force. - Grimes, as before, has speed. But that also has nothing to do with cleanliness with the ball. But seriously, you need to watch more football.

What's funny is that when we started out looking for the subjects we wanted to find people that weren't necessarily the stereotypical fans from those clubs. But the more we got into the Pies inner sanctum the more it seemed apparent that we were going to end up with someone like Phil! I will say this though, of all the clubs I dealt with the Pies were the most eager to help out and give me practically anything I needed. Even gave me tickets to ANZAC day! Not surprisingly Carlton were the most difficult.

Hazy you strike me as someone who puts his own ego a long way ahead of any self deluded notion of loyalty to club Its sad that you can't see this and continue your crusade of vindictiveness

Your last sentence reminds me of the old saying about which is better, a team of champions or a champion team?Strong leadership transforms behaviours and creates a high performance culture. Having good players is obviously essential, but with regards to them translating into great leaders, it's a fallacy.

Maybe he got locked in the vault?

He did a knee and unbelievably Richmond dumped him. I couldnl't believe it at the time. He went on to be a great player at Port and be a significant contributor to their premiership. By the end of 2012 they have a new coach and are doing what Bailey did in his first year which was to say anyone who isn't here in 5 yrs has to go. No reflection on how he is playing footy at the moment. He came back from injury during the season and tore a few games apart as a super sub. He will be great value. I have no doubt about it. Bit surprised he didn't make the leadership group.

I like it, especially with Chunk as vice-captain. The idiot in me also likes the idea of numbers 31, 9, and 2 being the top three in the club ...

There is a disconnect on this. Dragged into what? We did nothing more than 'bottom out' - which is what all teams do in a draft regulated sport when they are having a losing season. Even the NBA is rife with this and it has the 'cure-all' lottery for their draft. Put Jim at the forefront - we did nothing wrong. The 18 players we sent out there onto the field did their best to win their position and games of football and they constantly failed to do so for years, so don't get fooled that a few losses are worse than the rest. We were awful, we decided to have winning as a lower priority after we lost enough games, which is our right, and we did nothing wrong.

This bit made me lol. Some of you blokes must check under your bed for the boogie man every night too.

Im not in a position to judge anything, thats up to the club. But in case you didnt notice, this is a forum where opinions are put forward and subjects discussed. Personal attacks bring nothing to healthy debate.

Where the hell are you getting this part from? Purely imagined on your behalf.

Assuming that they were all selected any one week and were all on the ground at once, that amounts to HALF being leaders: should we name the other half as the FOLLOWERS GROUP?

Like a dog with a bone.... The post was speculating if the AFL's is leaking to the media just to keep in the news. Wasn't asking 'did we tank'.

Good get. From memory Schwabbie was held kickless that day Geelong beat us by 186 points.

Hell, I'm glad some of you guys aren't negotiating contracts too!

Australian one day team currently tanking

What a lot of twaddle some people are writing, this is a leadership group at a footy club, not leading anyone into war, or running a business if they get it wrong nobody dies or goes broke It is a group for all players to strive to be part of, as the group supposedly contains, as another poster has stated, exemplary professional footy players, who go about being a footy player in the right way It is leadership by example, and it can be a sounding board for young players, somebody who is a peer you can ask questions of Gee!!!!!

I think Fan has an anti Rodan agenda

Nominations now being taken for roles in the Hollywood production. I nominate myself as myself and Halle Berry as my wife. I'll be doing my own stunts for every scene.

I have just finished the book. Without wanting to whitewash him, it would appear that in the second half of 2009 that he was so busy with treatment and focusing on his health that his involvement would have been minimal. I'm not sure if it is just my interpretation but I think that was the case for much of the time between the initial diagnosis and his sad passing. It also points to the great job that Don McLardy did to keep things together.

'Badfinger' with 'No Matter What' ... Macca's 70's 11.0

The Stones with 'Gimme Shelter' Macca's 60's 10.9

'The Average White Band' with 'Pick up the Pieces' . This song is still used occasionally in the States for their sporting promo's and highlights . Hailing from Scotland their music is a mix of rock , funk and R&B . (yes, they're still kicking around) Macca's 70's 10.8

Here's one of 'Chicago's' big hits . Not a big story behind this song but this quote from 'Robert Lamm' (one of 'Chicago's' founding members) does take you into the songwriters mind . Macca's 70's 10.7 [media=]

'Blood , Sweat & Tears' won a Grammy for this huge 1969 hit . Quite an uplifting song . From 'Wiki' ... Macca 60's 10.6 [media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4iNw1Hvcu8

If you like a good yodel, try this Australian effort from 1994 on for size: [media=]

Good one JJ Here's a blast from the past Dutch band 'Focus' with 'Hocus Pocus' . Hadn't heard it in years until it was used in an advert for the World Cup in South Africa (2010) . Huge hit back in the day . Yodeling meets rock Macca's 70's rock 10.4 [media=]

Flame Trees is one of my all time favourite songs. Love it. I was listening to this song while driving around the other day thinking this could be the theme song for the season (I had MFCSS in full flight). But then I realised I was just focusing solely on the chorus "That's just the way it is, some thing will never change" So I listened to it a few more times and realised there was a much greater meaning to the song, which put things in perspective. Again I caught myself getting enthralled with an NBA match. I could see the battle, what seemed like gladiators going head to head, the cut a thrust of combat. But standing back I could see it for what it's worth, just a game. Anyway, enough of my midweek musings (maybe I should have started this with "Dear Diary"?), bring on the 80's! Jack Jack's 80's 1.6 And this one's alright too. Jack Jack's 80's 1.7 ]