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You are correct as far as tanking goes if Bailey holds firm. Rule 19 will not have been proved to be broken. What may be happening here is that the AFL have gathered evidence of Officials telling staff to lose. That is not a breach of Rule 19, but there may be a nice little alternative in, "bringing the game into disrepute". That charge again will have its own intricacies, for example, an argument would be mounted that MFC instructions were private and the AFL through their Inquisition will have made them public. Who then brought the game into disrepute, the maker of confidential private communications or the the publisher of them. This case is so much more difficult than people think. Let me throw up another scenario for consideration. staff of the MFC have to comply with AFL rules but also do what is best for the MFC. Is getting draft picks better than a loss? The football world says yes as is evidenced by the CEO's comments on List Management and Experimentation and corroborated by nearly every football person who has been quoted on the subject. Remember the ex Carlton greats in the media urging a Blues loss to get Kreuzer. Where was the outrage from the AFL at that time? Where was the quoting of the rule then? Remember the AFL's greatest player Leigh Matthews a few weeks ago urging Freo to lose, to get a better chance in the finals. Likewise no AFL outrage at the suggestion. The AFL has countenanced our behaviour for as long as they have existed and in fact encouraged it. No, I can't see this going to Court as the AFL will lose any integrity it thinks it possesses. Senior AFL staff will go and maybe even the Commission itself. Litigation from disgruntled bookies and punters will be the next chapter after many other clubs are forcibly dragged into it. A half decent Counsel will destroy the AFL on this, let alone our eminent QC. I am aware you don't want enemies at AFL house but most of them could lose their jobs over this and maybe the new boys in their place would be grateful for the new jobs ( only joking ). Simple answer, simple solution, statement from the AFL something like this " after an extremely thorough investigation with no expense spared, there is insufficient evidence to lay any charges against the MFC or its officials, that would have a realistic possibility of being sustained by the Commission". Result, some unhappy media types, general relief in the football world and unbridled enthusiasm for a great new season of footy in 2013, for the greatest game in the world.

Sue, it does matter that other clubs "may have infringed".There were allegations of tanking afoot for a decade before 2009 and the AFL always gave tanking a narrow interpretation. If your season was shot they gave carte blanche to the clubs to list manage and experiment to their hearts content and the short term aim of winning matches was deemed less important to clubs in that situation to the longer term objective of developing your team for the future. Andrew Demetriou came out publicly approving Melbourne's tactics in the Jordan McMahon game. And as long as clubs kept their policies private and in house there was no damage to the reputation of the game. By 2007 it was patently and plainly obvious to all and sundry what Carlton was trying to achieve and the AFL turned a blind eye. Moreover, you can bet in it that if there were any incriminating documents or emails around at Blues HQ they would now have been well and truly disposed of and yet not a single person from the AFL has deigned to explain why they have not been looked at thoroughly as we have over the past six months. As mentioned elsewhere, several others also went through the motions of not playing to win between 1999 and 2009. That this sort of discrimination is occurring in what is supposedly a billion dollar industry is nothing short of scandalous and bodes poorly for the AFL and the administrators responsible for allowing this to happen

Exactly, but this very action of favouring the strong clubs of that time, to underpin the rest of the competition, (from the early 70's) only undermines the weakest clubs, down at their inopportune time... This has gone on for decades.... and the favoured teams flourished, & the weaker teams lost support by attrition & hope, & lack of growth, & finally became a perennial financial burden. The accessing of prime TV slots, or grounds, or big match scheduling for the strong clubs, has undermined the whole competition. AFL commission,,, Stop manipulating & start sharing the best of everything equally to all Clubs. Stakeholders can bugger off.

Can you guys just PM each other please. You're hijacking far too many threads with all this BS. Ta.

I too would not like to see this go to court unless we are really screwed. We are always at the AFL's mercy. However, a threat to go to court can help. Some people are saying it doesn't matter that other clubs may have infringed, if we are guilty, we are guilty. Just like if you get pinged for speeding but the car next to you does not. However there is a fundamental difference between the AFL tanking enquiry and speeding fines. Basically, you are not in direct competition with the other car drivers. But the MFC is directly competing with 17 other clubs under the AFL's regime. This is a significant difference. Therefore as a bush lawyer, I would have thought we'd have grounds for raising in court procedural fairness, pointing to the statements by LIb , Fev etc and the lack of resulting AFL action (plus all the other examples of AFL silence on tanking examples which posters have mentioned). The AFL's only response could be, 'Yes, we'll get on with those investigations as soon as this one is finished'. But they won't want to do that. I think this holds even if we have been more negligent than others in hiding our tanking efforts or leaking (which has caused some anger against the club's admin on this forum). Maybe the other clubs have been more discreet. But the AFL would have to show that they have investigated the other cases closely and found them clean. But clearly they have not investigated them closely. They would be torn apart in court if they claimed they had done so. So their only response in court would again be that they'll investigate the other cases next. So if I'm correct about the admissibility of the 'why pick only on us competitive fairness' argument, then the AFL can't allow this to go to court. Therefore they can't penalize us at a level which could tip us into pursuing litigation.

Whoever put their name to those allegations have backed off from them.Ricky P is already leadership material-the other tiggers were in a Bikie Club making meth on Boxing Day.

That might be acceptable to some but a sanction against the MFC or any of its officials in the absence of similarly prolonged and through investigations of other clubs also suspected of tanking but not investigated would leave the AFL's integrity in tatters and the commission and its senior officials carrying the smell of corruption.Redleg's solution is the cleanest and the best for all concerned.

Australia thinks of itself as this super relaxed, chilled out society. The reality is, however, we are a reactionary, intolerant, hyper sensitive, over regulated, anti intellectual place that is as far from a chilled out society as any place I've been in my life. I'm not condoning what Frawley, Dunn and Howe may or may not have done, but I expect the security guards who evicted them are most likely brainless twits.

If there's been two more self-indulgent and boring posters to have emerged at Demonland I'd like to know who they are.

For punishment they should all be made to read this thread from start to finish.

If they want to get us, they'll get us. We did nothing against the rules and nothing different to what many clubs have done in the past and continue doing presently, but for reasons unknown they have targeted us. The whole thing is a disgrace. In fact I'd go as far as saying that whatever the outcome, the MFC ought to sue the AFL for defamation based on the ongoing nature of their investigation.

The point that I struggle to understand is if in the scenario that none of our coaches or players are found guilty but Connolly is then how did we actually tank? Let's say that the comment he made was the evidence used to charge him, Connolly told everyone to tank, but if no one listened to him and the coaches just did what they had been doing all year then how did we physically tank? I firmly believe that to get us they have to prove that Bailey was involved in the process for them to get us.

You want to look like a deprived hardarse, who only accepts success, but you come a cross as a dumbarse, who doesn't have a sharp view on footy.

Bing I am so tired of this attitude that a football team has to be a team of guys who are beyond reproach. Quite a few of the teams that have won flags over the last ten years have had some ordinary human members. I do not care what they do on Boxing day. Just win bloody games.

I could not give a toss what they did on boxing day. Just win games in 2013 guys. The choir boys have been shuffled off a few weeks back. Sounds like good news to me.

The lads were probably a tad indiscreet in choosing bay 13 but we are not running a nunnery here. No harm done.

A trivial incident that doesn't offend me one iota. The dedication of AFL players as young men is extraordinary, so I won't condemn them on a lapse of judgment on a public holiday on one of Australian sport's iconic occasions. It's a no biggie for me. But it doesn't surprise me that many on here wet themselves over it.

It doesn't matter what they get paid........We are all entitled to have a few days over Christmas/New year where we can let our hair down don't we?????.....They train, play,very hard all the rest of the time but are not allowed to go to the cricket and have a few beers????....Did they get into a brawl?????......Did they put lives in danger by drink driving????...Did they belt some innocent bloke and break his jaw????.....No.....Can't belive all the fuss....

I don't need rocket scientists Forest Demon just young men who can play the game at a high level and get us into the top six of the competition over the next 3 -4 years. Beyond that I don't care what they do at the cricket on boxing day.

What you're saying is very disturbing for the competition. It means that the stronger and better supported clubs are receiving favourable treatment because of their strategic importance to the AFL and therefore are immune to the action taken against Melbourne - i.e. a disruptive 6 month investigation of the club. WJ is right. This stinks of corruption.

Of course the coaches would be interested. I agree. But, as we seem to agreem, it's not tantamount to a "fail" in reference to the Neeld quote. I don't think there'd be any restrictions as such - only a list of outcomes that must be completed at different intervals over that "free" period. Adhering to certain unwritten restrictions may impact on the players' ability to achieve to those outcomes, but I doubt it'd be explicitly spelled out for them.

Yes...I'm another fan, having the complete Thunderbirds collection on DVD as well as the complete Stingray, Fireball XL5, Joe 90, Captain Scarlett and Supercar DVD sets. It's nice to be able to step back into your childhood every now and then. Thanks Gerry!

Not to mention any drug investigations into said teams from yore. Did they do drug tests back then, & if so, do they keep the samples? Like the olympics & the 'tour de france', retesting would make things very interesting.

Mark Neeld Aug 22, 2012 The Dees are an "inexperienced group of footballers developing elite habits.” Fail.

Drop the suspended sentence, findings that we didn't tank and that CC's joke was not funny to the AFL, an apology for the damage and disruption the Inquisition has caused the MFC, no fine to the club as CC's joke was his idea alone and then the AFL give us $250k more in grants next year. I could probably live with that. Even simpler, my solution posted above, no charges, case closed.

You will go to hell for that one dc!

I bet they make lots of candles though

So are you saying Bay 13 is the place where the "real common man" goes ? What about the other parts of the MCG ? And what about the "real common woman" in this day of "enlightenment" ? To me Bay 13 is no more a place where you can show you are not a blazer wearing MCC member, than most other stands. But, it does have a reputation which rubs off on those who chose to sit there. And, these guys being in the media spotlight as they are, do not help the club very much.

Marriage can lead to baldness in my experience but good luck to Mr and Mrs Chunk.

good effort by the boys

Sure they are on time off, and sure they can, if they so choose, have "a few beers" but it was bloody stupid, poor judgement, whatever, to do it in a notorious section of a packed stadium. Don't clubs counsel players about common sense* behaviour in public? Nothing criminal as far as I can see from the reports, but really dumb stuff. * errr, ummmm what's that?

The witness, who asked not to be named, told Fairfax Media that the group was ‘‘very vocal’’ and boisterous but trouble-free before Howe and the unknown man exchanged heated words for about five minutes. Four security guards then told both men to leave. ‘‘It was an unnecessary show of security guards and police when, really, nothing actually happened. That was the most disappointing thing for me,’’ the witness said. ‘‘I was at the Boxing Day Test four years ago and there wasn’t the presence of security that there was this year. It’s been over-regulated.’’ Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/sport/demons-exorcised-in-mcg-overkill-20121228-2byr9.html#ixzz2GJuJa0jr Nothing in it. I am sure Caroline will call for their immediate sacking, the Melbourne players that is, not Rivers and Petterd.

Heaven forbid a couple of blokes having too much to drink on their equivalent of our work holidays. Gee wiz some of you guys are getting on a very high horse around here... Your sh#t stinks just like everyone else's. There is no way in hell 99% of people maintain appropriate behaviour - take this from someone who used to work at a stadium

Not really, it is more than unfortunate when these things happen but I found this bit of the article amusing. The language used to reinforce the story. "But he was promoted to the senior list after the Magpies lost enforcer Luke Ball to a season-ending knee injury." Is it possible the standard of journalism is getting worse over the summer break, Luke Ball an enforcer, good hard at it player, inside mid but enforcer???

Having spent 12 years dealing with drunks at the G and other venues and locking up many I can say the following, they passed the attitude test and went quietly so my expert opinion is not drunk, just 'affected by alcohol', very smart decision to leave without trouble, and that is what I'd focus on as the coach. No fights, no drunk driving, no sexist behaviour reported just beers watching the cricket and then going peacefully when told... After a few shennanigans.. I have seen lawyers, politicians, senior civil servants, teachers, CEO's and others who would all make the news if someone chose to dob on them. Could they have got drunk in private and kept up some sort of BS choir boy appearance, of course they could and it would have made people here happy obviously. I always found the people pouring out of the super boxes the most shabby after a long day. Now we either have an extraordinary over representation of the temperance society amongst Demon supporters or a truck load of hypocrites everyone has been bent out of shape sometime and it's what happens at that point is key. Footballer player had a drink!!! don't make me laugh, more than a few premiership players who have done that. I can also say that I found the security at the G to be cowards and snipers (up until 2006, so if they have improved since then i'm sorry) and that on more than one occasion they were either charged or close to being charged with assault, including a 14 year old girl getting pummelled by four 90kg+ blokes one time. I reckon they'd be nervous of the footy players as in their dreams they couldn't touch these guys and most of the guards are on our power trip, as bad as G4S guards at an airport. And finally so what if its in the paper, can we stop being so frigging scared of the media and just stare them down at least once or twice. God our politics would be better if the pollies didn't live by every sound bite.

To quote the Big Lebowski "No Walter ,you're not wrong ,you're just an [censored]".

I'm not sure any of Caro's muck was leaked by anyone still in the club. She kept referring to unnamed former officials and former players who didn't want to be named - but I'm not sure any of her information came from current insiders. For our embittered former players and officials this is the last hurrah. Let's get this out of the way and move on.If the AFL really want to clean things up they'll charge McLean with bringing the game into disrepute. They need to get the message out that players and officials who have problems with their former clubs should go to the AFL - and not to the media. Whatever they conclude about our behaviours etc., they should definitely sanction McLean.

seems to me that the portion of us who are upset about this are only upset because we happen to be a bad side at the moment.. I don't see what our on-field performance has to do with this, they are entirely separate issues

I find this thread very disturbing, and i'm not referring to the behaviour of our players. Can't believe people get so riled up about such a non-issue.

It's a trivial incident mate.

Stuie, you were given a repeat warning for name calling. It was as simple as that. And its not a first offence in that area.

Couldnt agree more, Im from Corowa where Kozi went to school. He came to a school reunion in a pub my missus owned and was blind, tryed to shout the whole bar Jager shots (not enough Jager) picked up the tab for the last half hour for the hunderd people in there, then went back and partied at some dudes house (where they fed him Carlton Draught cans with the collingwood team photo on it). Apparently some time after that a few other St Kilda boys came up and they were stuffing around on his parents farm I presume and someone got run over by a four wheeler. Never heard this boring story have we, why? BECAUSE IT WASNT IN BAY 13 ON NATIONAL TV! I really think players need some kind of nanny to stop them making silly choices. So what they got [censored] and played up, but for god sake do it at home. And to those who say "they are only young adults, let them be boys" I say no. When you sign a contract for $300,000+ a year there are some things you are expected to give up and getting dragged out of bay 13 on boxing day is one of them.

This isn't the Coles $64,000.00 question. If thats what it is they should type it. Way to much abbreviating of uncommon words.

The Bladder gets Anderson's legacy just about right - http://www.thebladder.com.au/article/397'>Anderson leaves on a high note

An honest footballer and ripping bloke. My thoughts to the friends and family of Troy and all others who lost loved ones on that day. Go you big red fire engine. Deepest sympathies Jason

Win , lose or draw I hope all these names surface in the end. I want to be sure I am despising all the right people.

This simply cant go near a court. The AFL loses even in the very unlikely event it wins ( which it wouldnt i feel) The trigger is the levelling of charges against the MFC. The AFL actually control the outcome currently and dont dare for its own sake lose that ( control) . ergo there will be no charges. irrespective of whatever has actually transpired; good , bad or indifferent you have to start at the desired outcome and work back to see how this will pan out not attempt to speculate on where we are now and work forward.

Sorry folks but I need to consult with the other mods about this thread. We're not allowed to tell jokes around here because they could be used in evidence against us.

i don't have any tanking gags but a funny thing happened to me last night.. i went to pick up some fish and chips in windsor and chris judd was there, doing the same and i thought to myself "hang on, don't you prefer chicken wings?"

Now you're talking. We should go on the attack and write to AFL this week formally requesting a priority pick in this year's draft because we've been so bad for so long.